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A non-breakdown
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Frank Bullitt
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:24 pm    Post subject: A non-breakdown  Reply with quote

A few days ago I noticed a squeaking noise when the car was idling or under load at low revs - a look under the bonnet suggested it was down by the alternator somewhere, so I thought I'd try and get to half term break and leave the car in the TT shop for a few jobs to be done.

This morning the squeaking noise seemed to have disappeared a little but on starting the car after dropping FB junior off to kids club there was a new 'rubbing' noise, heard at all revs. Arse-biscuits, I thought to myself, perhaps it won't make half term

Sure enough a mile from work a loud 'bang' with a quick check on the dash confirming the battery is no longer charging, thankfully I was 50 metres from Tesco so in we went. A quick check under the bonnet confirms the pully and shaft have had a messy divorce with the belt looking a bit sorry for itself, the pully having sheared off and staring me at me from the under tray; doesn't appear to be any collateral damage thankfully. The belt and idle tensioner were replaced at the last service so I'm wondering if either it has been overtightened or, more likely, a new belt on an old pully has simply exerted a new pressure to increase wear.

The flat bed was there in 15 minutes and the cheerful guy, who commented 'at least you parked it where I could get to it, you'd be amazed how many people don't' took it off down to the TT Shop for some TLC.

At the same time, I've asked them to do a VCDS scan as the economy has dropped from 52-55mpg to 43-45mpg since Christmas (temp is fine so I think a sensor is goosed).

Still, it's 11 years old an owes me some expenditure - I'll ask them to do a 4-wheel alignment on it and I'm getting the alloys refurbished at half term.

One of my colleagues happened to be in Tesco's so getting to work was easy enough too.

Shit happens and it's still a great little car.

Edit - got itself on the flat bed so it's definitely a non-breakdown!
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JohnC
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope it's a simple and inexpensive fix. It's an even better car than you thought, waiting to break down in a convenient spot.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, small item breakage: not a breakdown. Same when Die Schreibmaschine's alternator went west. It got me home and dragged itself to the garage later that week (albeit with the 'box in limp-home mode).

Where you getting your alloys done?: I want to do mine and tie it in with new boots.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, had it have been 150 metres later is have been in an awful traffic queue that I couldn't get out of quickly. It does its bit!

Getting them done here;

http://www.acefinishcarrepairs.com/alloy-wheels.html

They did the repair work on the DS4 which I'm happy with and I had a look at examples of their wheels which are fantastic - they need the wheels leaving though, hence leaving the car over half term, you can get back to Lings Cross from Huntingdon station, more than happy to meet you BB. They do 4 wheels for £250 all-in. It needs new centre caps too as a result of fucking chimps in a tyre place levering them off many years ago which has let water get in and de-laminated them.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If things like this class as non-breakdowns, then the Postbox has an exemplary reliability record.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnC wrote:
I hope it's a simple and inexpensive fix. It's an even better car than you thought, waiting to break down in a convenient spot.


+1!
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: A non-breakdown Reply with quote

Frank Bullitt wrote:
The belt and idle tensioner were replaced at the last service so I'm wondering if either it has been overtightened or, more likely, a new belt on an old pully has simply exerted a new pressure to increase wear.


I have a vague recollection that the last time I had the belt replaced on a car (the Z1), the garage (ML) strongly recommended doing the pulley at the same time for the sake of prudence.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: A non-breakdown Reply with quote

Racing Teatray wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:
The belt and idle tensioner were replaced at the last service so I'm wondering if either it has been overtightened or, more likely, a new belt on an old pully has simply exerted a new pressure to increase wear.


I have a vague recollection that the last time I had the belt replaced on a car (the Z1), the garage (ML) strongly recommended doing the pulley at the same time for the sake of prudence.


My local garage did belts and pulleys on the GTI at the same time - water pump too IIRC.

Bad luck on the pulley front FB, but good re everything else!! Let's hope the bill isn't TOO enormous.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That all sounds pretty convenient, I hope the bill isn't too large.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:37 pm    Post subject: Re: A non-breakdown Reply with quote

Racing Teatray wrote:

I have a vague recollection that the last time I had the belt replaced on a car (the Z1), the garage (ML) strongly recommended doing the pulley at the same time for the sake of prudence.


Isn't Prudence one of Bob's wives? (see other thread)
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alternator bearings have collapsed shearing the pulley - £339 fitted, should be done by close of play Monday but they will run a vagcom on it when the work is done and identify if there is something affecting the economy.

When I looked for alternators on-line the cheapest I could find was £240 so I'm not concerned by that; cars without climate use a £120 alternator!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not the end of the world then - over 10 years that's buttons.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly, it's owed me a big bill for a while so I'm completely unphased by the money side, it's only the inconvenience of a (non) breakdown but I got away with it this time - I've nicked the DS4 for Monday and my maintenance manager can pick me up Tuesday so it's not the end of the world.

Next job is to get the wheels refurbished and the centre caps. The A2 is probably worth about as little as it will ever be worth at the moment (probably £1,500 part-ex, £2,300 private sale) so it's only going one way in value - however, it's Mrs FB's 40th next year and I'll get her a smart, then we can semi-retire the A2. It'll work for me in the long term as I'll get the DS4 and then replace it with a DS5 (2.0HDi Prestige or a 1955 edition if I can get hold of one!).
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you seen Car this month? BMW are bringing out an i car, i5 I think, which bears much more than a passing resemblance to a DS5

EDIT: Having just seen Auto Express' supposed pictures of the i5 on line, I completely withdraw my previous statement - it's a munter.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I saw that in CAR and it looks superb probably down to its DS5-like profile but I can't imagine it will be £15k anytime soon!

I'd happily have a DS5 hybrid but the batteries compromise the boot too much, it's a step directly behind the rear seats.

This in 18 months to 2 years time would be absolutely perfect;

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/class...ert/201512189536329?atmobcid=soc4

I'd even buy it from Arsehole Shark (then remove the awful sticker!)
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a pain to be without the car, but £339 isn't really a big bill, it could have been worse.

Broadspeed are offering 30% off the DS5, not interested in getting a new one?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that's an example of what I'd like to get in a few years time (ie when it's a few years old) rather than squandering £21k on one but if I was then yes, the broadspeed prices are where it is at!
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Yes, I saw that in CAR and it looks superb probably down to its DS5-like profile but I can't imagine it will be £15k anytime soon!

I'd happily have a DS5 hybrid but the batteries compromise the boot too much, it's a step directly behind the rear seats.

This in 18 months to 2 years time would be absolutely perfect;

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/class...ert/201512189536329?atmobcid=soc4

I'd even buy it from Arsehole Shark (then remove the awful sticker!)


That is nice. I'm a big fan of the DS5 too
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes: the DS5 is a great car. They just don't make enough of a fuss about it!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My next door neighbour works for Citroen and drives various DS5s and they do look nice, although compared to a Mondeo they looks quite small. I don't know the actual measurements so it could just be a case of clever styling hiding its bulk.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, they aren't as large (length ways) as you'd think - they are about 8" shorter than a Mondeo for example although just as wide.  The wheelbase is about 5cm shorter and it's the boot where they are smaller overall if still big enough for most people, especially as filling to the roof is quite easy due to the shape.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you do fill it to the roof, you're not missing much rear visibility.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's not even a non-breakdown. That's the failure of a minor ancillary.  

Does Mrs FB know she is getting a smart or will you wrap it as a surprise?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
My next door neighbour works for Citroen and drives various DS5s and they do look nice, although compared to a Mondeo they looks quite small. I don't know the actual measurements so it could just be a case of clever styling hiding its bulk.


Remember, though, that the Mondeo is huge!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roadsterstu wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
My next door neighbour works for Citroen and drives various DS5s and they do look nice, although compared to a Mondeo they looks quite small. I don't know the actual measurements so it could just be a case of clever styling hiding its bulk.


Remember, though, that the Mondeo is huge!


It is, twice the size of the Insignia.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just had a look and the DS5 is 38cm or 15" shorter than mine, it doesn't look that much smaller.   It's 4" shorter than a 3 series and about the same size as a Golf Estate.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PG wrote:
That's not even a non-breakdown. That's the failure of a minor ancillary.  

Does Mrs FB know she is getting a smart or will you wrap it as a surprise?


It'll be a surprise, but it's complicated...

Chez FB is on the market - however, neither of us are that bowled over about moving unless we find something we really want which isn't on the market at the moment.  If we don't move we will likely do an extension, so under either of those options I have to work out how much cash we will have to buy a smart with next Feb!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear Luton is up and coming  

That would leave change for a Smart and a DS?

Guess your planning to stay in the same area? Always difficult trying to sell and buy the right property at the same time. We lucked out when we bought our present place (although a double garage would have been nice), but ended up converting our loft rather than move again.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
Just had a look and the DS5 is 38cm or 15" shorter than mine, it doesn't look that much smaller.   It's 4" shorter than a 3 series and about the same size as a Golf Estate.


3 has grown a lot from E90 to F30 (or whatever the correct wagon numbers are)

I always think of the DS5 a a big car but then I do drive a supermini!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still not got it back.

The alternator was fitted yesterday but on checking it they aren't happy with the voltage level - they've checked the earths etc so think either the batter has been damaged or the new alternator is faulty; they will try the former first then the latter.

They've not found anything to account for the poor fuel economy, mind.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Bullitt wrote:

They've not found anything to account for the poor fuel economy, mind.


Has Mrs FB been borrowing it recently?  
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Bullitt wrote:
.....they've checked the earths etc so think either the batter has been damaged or the new alternator is faulty

Sounds fishy to me.....
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:
.....they've checked the earths etc so think either the batter has been damaged or the new alternator is faulty

Sounds fishy to me.....


Yes: a broken alternator could fry the battery.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:

They've not found anything to account for the poor fuel economy, mind.


Has Mrs FB been borrowing it recently?  


I can't blame her to be fair!

It has been quite a drop in economy, I'd normally get 115-125 miles before it dropped to 1/4 full but on the last two tanks it has struggled to hit 100, it had two new tyres in December but try are at the right pressure etc, I am wondering if the alternator has been causing excess 'drag' on the engine as it's certainly sounded laboured at times when it ought not to have been.

Anyway, we have decided not to sell our home, get a conservatory (well, livin room affair) and then we can get a smart; will it wait until Feb 2017 or will my keenness get the better of me!

Edit; just heard from them, the battery was too far gone so they've replaced it for me - they think the alternator had probably been going for a while, giving the right voltage but insufficient current.

Another £99 for the battery but that's okay.


Last edited by Frank Bullitt on Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Blue wrote:
Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:
.....they've checked the earths etc so think either the batter has been damaged or the new alternator is faulty

Sounds fishy to me.....


Yes: a broken alternator could fry the battery.


Maybe if it were chipped it would improve the performance?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roadrunner wrote:
Big Blue wrote:
Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:
.....they've checked the earths etc so think either the batter has been damaged or the new alternator is faulty

Sounds fishy to me.....


Yes: a broken alternator could fry the battery.


Maybe if it were chipped it would improve the performance?


It is chipped, it puts it in a good Place on the road
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Tim wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:

They've not found anything to account for the poor fuel economy, mind.


Has Mrs FB been borrowing it recently?  


I can't blame her to be fair!

It has been quite a drop in economy, I'd normally get 115-125 miles before it dropped to 1/4 full but on the last two tanks it has struggled to hit 100, it had two new tyres in December but try are at the right pressure etc, I am wondering if the alternator has been causing excess 'drag' on the engine as it's certainly sounded laboured at times when it ought not to have been.

Anyway, we have decided not to sell our home, get a conservatory (well, livin room affair) and then we can get a smart; will it wait until Feb 2017 or will my keenness get the better of me!

Edit; just heard from them, the battery was too far gone so they've replaced it for me - they think the alternator had probably been going for a while, giving the right voltage but insufficient current.

Another £99 for the battery but that's okay.


Fingers crossed.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
Fingers crossed.


I suspect it needs more than that...

Picked it up at lunch time and all seemed fine; driving home tonight as soon as I left the 30mph zone the battery light flickered away at me under full throttle was an ominous sign, thankfully backing-off calmed it down, but under heavy load it repeated this.

To add to the pure fucking joy, it now only pumps out heat from the vents at maximum force irrespective of what I set it to - even selecting 'Lo' was boiling hot. My guess is the pulley has hit a flap somewhere as it's made an escape for victory and this is now fixed in a fully open (or closed) position.

Arse shit bollocks.

If there is any good news a 3rd car in the household looks likely, sooner rather than later.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Exactly, it's owed me a big bill for a while so I'm completely unphased by the money side...


I might regret typing this at some point. Probably about now.

I took the car back in yesterday morning after not driving it all weekend. The battery warning light had a very low glow for the first few miles, with it glowing brighter on any sort of acceleration - once I got onto the main dual carriageway I set cruise to 60mph and hoped for the best, the light wasn't visible.  After driving for 8 miles and coming off the main road,  I couldn't get the light to glow at all.  Parking up, I revved it to 4000rpm at which point I could see a faint glow.

Left it with the TT Shop and went through with one of the team what was happening.

Spoke to them today and they filled me in on some details of what they did last week and what they have tried since - put simply, initially they installed an alternator which didn't appear to work so they fitted a replacement which did but the battery wouldn't charge sufficient amps so they replaced that; at this point everything was hunky dory. I bring the car back and they are then unable to get the light to glow at all, so they check all the cabling again and try a replacement idle tensioner and get it all tensioned up as there is a chance this was damaged when the alternator made an escape attempt - the battery warning light starts flickering - they check all the cables again and have replaced everything now that would affect and hold the charge.

It's now been sent to a specialist electrician to spend some time going through the car; they have been honest and tell me this is the first time they've seen these faults on a car present in this way and cannot find the source, nor can they even surmise beyond, perhaps, a faulty relay somewhere.

This is going to cost me a fucking fortune and I am hoping that I get a car back at the end that is usable, if they can't fix it then I have no chance with my limited skills so I will have no option left but to sell for spares or repairs if there is no end in sight.

At least the heating issue righted itself...

Either way, car shopping at the weekend.
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Martin
Nuclear

My Car: BMW 535d M Sport & Boxster 987.2

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 14425


Location: Higham Ferrers

PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really hope they find it quickly and it's a easy fix.
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Chris M Wanted a V-10
Supercharged

My Car: C-Max'D, CapturD and GOK the Wok

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 7160


Location: Captur'd by 1 5UMO near Camberley. Forum F1 champ 2011 and 2015

PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounding similar to an issue I once had with the Galaxy (VW electronics). Where does the main cable go from the alternator? Is there a large capacity fuse before the charge (ie this high-current cable) reaches the battery? If so, check that it's not got signs of burning at one end where the fuse meets the cable.
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DetmoldDick
Turbocharged

My Car: cooking on gas

Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 2578


Location: Detmold, Germany

PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:
Exactly, it's owed me a big bill for a while so I'm completely unphased by the money side...


I might regret typing this at some point. Probably about now.

I took the car back in yesterday morning after not driving it all weekend. The battery warning light had a very low glow for the first few miles, with it glowing brighter on any sort of acceleration - once I got onto the main dual carriageway I set cruise to 60mph and hoped for the best, the light wasn't visible.  After driving for 8 miles and coming off the main road,  I couldn't get the light to glow at all.  Parking up, I revved it to 4000rpm at which point I could see a faint glow.

Left it with the TT Shop and went through with one of the team what was happening.

Spoke to them today and they filled me in on some details of what they did last week and what they have tried since - put simply, initially they installed an alternator which didn't appear to work so they fitted a replacement which did but the battery wouldn't charge sufficient amps so they replaced that; at this point everything was hunky dory. I bring the car back and they are then unable to get the light to glow at all, so they check all the cabling again and try a replacement idle tensioner and get it all tensioned up as there is a chance this was damaged when the alternator made an escape attempt - the battery warning light starts flickering - they check all the cables again and have replaced everything now that would affect and hold the charge.

It's now been sent to a specialist electrician to spend some time going through the car; they have been honest and tell me this is the first time they've seen these faults on a car present in this way and cannot find the source, nor can they even surmise beyond, perhaps, a faulty relay somewhere.

This is going to cost me a fucking fortune and I am hoping that I get a car back at the end that is usable, if they can't fix it then I have no chance with my limited skills so I will have no option left but to sell for spares or repairs if there is no end in sight.

At least the heating issue righted itself...

Either way, car shopping at the weekend.


Sounds like dartboard diagnostics to me

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Frank Bullitt
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My Car: .
View My Motor: .

Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 12848



PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I agree!

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
Sounding similar to an issue I once had with the Galaxy (VW electronics). Where does the main cable go from the alternator? Is there a large capacity fuse before the charge (ie this high-current cable) reaches the battery? If so, check that it's not got signs of burning at one end where the fuse meets the cable.


Useful thought, thanks - I will mention it to them[/b]
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TreVoR
Nuclear

My Car: Probably Broken

Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 12589



PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TVR has one of those 100 amp fuses.  It's on the lower chassis rail and gets changed every 12k miles as a matter of course.
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Roadsterstu
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My Car: threelitreturbosixallwheeldrive

Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 12728


Location: Over there.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Yes, I agree!

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
Sounding similar to an issue I once had with the Galaxy (VW electronics). Where does the main cable go from the alternator? Is there a large capacity fuse before the charge (ie this high-current cable) reaches the battery? If so, check that it's not got signs of burning at one end where the fuse meets the cable.


Useful thought, thanks - I will mention it to them[/b]


Poor or corroded earth straps/cables?  Sorry to hear of the woes.
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gonnabuildabuggy
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My Car: Sorted for E's

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 12069


Location: Somewhere, rounadabouts

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^Good idea Stu.

Don't strip it, the solution is out there somewhere.

Time to hit Google and the owners forum I'd suggest
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gonnabuildabuggy
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My Car: Sorted for E's

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 12069


Location: Somewhere, rounadabouts

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/foru...-working-and-battery-not-charging

Batteries faulty coming up on a lot of threads. Needs to be 14.4V I think
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Frank Bullitt
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roadsterstu wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:
Yes, I agree!

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
Sounding similar to an issue I once had with the Galaxy (VW electronics). Where does the main cable go from the alternator? Is there a large capacity fuse before the charge (ie this high-current cable) reaches the battery? If so, check that it's not got signs of burning at one end where the fuse meets the cable.


Useful thought, thanks - I will mention it to them[/b]


Poor or corroded earth straps/cables?  Sorry to hear of the woes.


All checked according to the TT Shop!
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Tim
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My Car: is multiplying

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 13134


Location: Over the rainbow

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A guy I worked with had a SAAB 9-3 V6 petrol and had all sorts of issues.
Tracking down the problem cost him various bits including new ignition/recoded key.

Ultimately the solution was cleaning the contacts of some wiring that lives under the fusebox in the engine bay - a 30 minute job.
It cost him well over £1k in pointless repair attempts first though.

He got the correct answer from one of the one-make forums.
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gonnabuildabuggy
Nuclear

My Car: Sorted for E's

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 12069


Location: Somewhere, rounadabouts

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reminds me of the £2 part and £45 labour o ring fix to my PAS that saved me £700+fitting on the cost of a new one.

The solution will be on the internet somewhere. Buy a multi-meter and start checking.......


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