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BMW 5 series Touring
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Andy C
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Down at Castle Combe yesterday for Dan G's big event (I'll do a separate thread for that), but after the event had finished, we headed for lunch and to look at some showrooms in Bristol.  At BMW , they had a new G30 outside , still with some camo on. It was locked at first , but they opened it up as we were leaving .  The interior is fantastic . Wood wouldn't  be my choice, but the layout looks great and is superbly built



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Blarno
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still not keen on the 1990's PC joystick/sex toy gear lever. Other than that, it's just another posh car interior to me - lots of shiny tree and cow.
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Giant
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I being over cynical thinking the (unnecessary) camouflage is on it to make people look, so they realise it's a new model? Without it, many people may not even give it a second glance.
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Blarno
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The camo on the steering wheel badge is amusing. Anyone with half a brain cell will know it's a BMW.
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Martin
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giant wrote:
Am I being over cynical thinking the (unnecessary) camouflage is on it to make people look, so they realise it's a new model? Without it, many people may not even give it a second glance.


Yes, marketing gimmick, my local dealer has one the same.  The std auto selector isn't good, but choosing the Sport Auto solves that.

Looks great inside, I'll have a proper look at the local launch on Tuesday.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that's the same car I followed a week or so ago. I see the ads are on TV now.
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Chris M Wanted a V-10
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blarno wrote:
The camo on the steering wheel badge is amusing. Anyone with half a brain cell will know it's a BMW.

You could almost add that the camo on the outside is wasted as most people, on seeing it, wouldn't be able to tell the difference from its predecessor
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Giant
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
Blarno wrote:
The camo on the steering wheel badge is amusing. Anyone with half a brain cell will know it's a BMW.

You could almost add that the camo on the outside is wasted as most people, on seeing it, wouldn't be able to tell the difference from its predecessor


That's exactly why it's there!!!
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Big Blue
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I'd known this when I was younger I'd have gone out with camouflage on my face every other Friday night so all the girls that rejected me previously came flooding over....
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Blue wrote:
If I'd known this when I was younger I'd have gone out with camouflage on my face every other Friday night so all the girls that rejected me previously came flooding over....


Isn't that what New Romantics did?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I preferred the rear of the F11, it looked sleeker. The F11 is the best-looking 5-Series Touring for me.

I question the point of making the M550d. With legislators beating up on diesel across the world, is there a market for it, because it was very niche in the first place? In a few years time where will you be able to drive it without some absurd charges, particularly in Europe's city centres?

In comparison, the M550i is very tempting. It sounds great.

Good to see BMW offering some decent blue's again which aren't expensive Individual colours. This started with the F10 later in its life. Cue to BMW, continue this please! Don't take a step backwards and just offer Estoril....
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Martin
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I popped into the launch event in my way home yesterday, it was like I was arriving at a 520d convention as the car park was full of them, plus one 530d and an A6 and XF estate.    Leaving aside the salesmans presentations (mix of facts and nonsense) and some of the attendees behaviour, which restricted things somewhat, it was interesting to see the car.

To cut to the chase, after good look around, I didn't leave thinking I wanted to change my car, which on balance I think is a good thing!

Slight caveat that I've not driven one yet, which could sway me I suppose..   Don't get me wrong, it's a very nice car indeed, but it doesn't feel like a significant step up from the F10/F11, nothing like there was moving from the E60.  I like the centre console which is more angled towards the driver and some of the details are really nice, but I don't like the screen and it feels smaller inside (it isn't), which I think was down to the way the dash slopes on the passenger side plus the very dark interiors.  A different interior colour and/or a sunroof would probably have made a big difference, as would comfort seats and nappa leather.   They had a 7 series in the showroom, which was a mistake unless they thought they might get someone to upgrade, as the differences inside are much greater than the pictures suggest.  

Some of the tech is pretty impressive, for example the voodoo cruise doesn't just work in stop/start traffic, it uses the camera based speed limit feature to adjust the speed (you can set a +/- variance).  It also uses the speed limit in addition to GPS data to control the gearbox.   The voodoo lights are exactly the same as they are on mine, no laser option like there is on the 7.

So, a really nice car and would probably get my money if I was swapping on a like for like basis, but I'd like to see one in a better spec and try one with the right chassis and engine options.
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Big Blue
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your visit aligns with my thoughts on the pictures: it's not different enough to the F11. As you say, there was a big change (up) to the F10/11 and to be fair there was a big change from the E39 to the E60. Perhaps interiors have plateaued for the time being?

I remain less than keen on those front side air intakes, something which I felt wrecked the 1-series M-sport, and the gigantic kidney grille looks just shite. Far better to have a wide intake as covered by the grille area with smaller kidneys in the centre. Is that a bit retro?
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Bob Sacamano
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to agree with your summation - there's nothing I've seen that would tempt me out of a current F10, or even persuade me to wait for a new model as opposed to a heavily discounted run out model.
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Martin
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the front bumper and grille look much better than they do in the pictures, possibly because of the angle you look at them vs (a lower) camera angle?

The technology is probably the biggest difference, but the majority is optional and I'm not interested enough to pay for it.  To get the spec that I'd want on a 530d,the list price would increase to £63-64k, so closer to £70k on a 540d Touring (535d was £60k) and that's excluding the self park/360 camera, voodoo cruise and a number of other tech options.   With the same deposit, the 530d I specced comes out at £200 a month more than I pay now.

The service pack has been downgraded as well, it's been reduced from £475 to £399, but only covers you for 3 years / 36k miles (was 5/50k), so you're only getting one service rather than two.
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Bob Sacamano
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone use these self parking functions, other than in the first few days when you're showing off to friends? Are they practical in real life or just too slow when trying to quickly reverse back into a space in a busy highstreet?
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Martin
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I strongly suspect the latter, unless you've got a garage that will fit the car in but won't leave you enough room to open the door.   The new surround view is excellent, but it's bundled with the self parking, remote parking is £400 on top so the full parking/surround view option costs £1,500.

The Holden Commodore has self parking, both parallel and vertical. I used it once to see what it was like then didn't bother again as although it was very good, it did take too long.
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gonnabuildabuggy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
I tend to agree with your summation - there's nothing I've seen that would tempt me out of a current F10, or even persuade me to wait for a new model as opposed to a heavily discounted run out model.


There's the thing. Sometime a model isn't a big enough step up to warrant a change.

when I bought the X5, the step up from the E53 to the E70 in terms of tech and "datedness" felt pretty massive. When I look at the newer model still then it didn't really feel that big a shift so not worth considering.

The F10/F11 will be worth seeking out in the right spec over the extra expense of the new model.
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't the BMW way to do evolution, revolution, evolution, revolution, etc, etc.

Though they often stretch the meaning of revolution.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely BMW's only styling revolution was under Bangle?
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Bob Sacamano
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Surely BMW's only styling revolution was under Bangle?


I don't think you Audi boys can be lobbing styling bricks in BMW's direction...

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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't say they were any different!  It was just an observation, rather than a brick.  Seems to me that uglification is about all the prestige makes have done in the way of innovation in quite a while.
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gonnabuildabuggy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Surely BMW's only styling revolution was under Bangle?


It did used to be Revolution (E23), Evolution (E30), Revolution (E36), Evolution (E46) but from then on it's gone a bit patchy.

No idea what E90 was supposed to be?

For 5 series Revolution (E12), Evolution (E28), Revolution (E34), Evolution (E39), Revolution (indeed!) E60, then same what was the F10? What is the G30?

Meanwhile Audi have just one design for A4/A6/A8 that comes in different sizes.

Perhaps in truth, Tech, not shape is the main evolution nowadays.
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Big Blue
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Gorilla has the parking thing (in the car, not out). Tried it once. Never again: alloy-scrape-stress-levels are too high and then it ended up 2 kms from the kerb anyway!
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Nice Guy Eddie
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sat in the new 5 series yesterday and although the leather dash and architecture looked good the switchgear quality was nothing other than appalling. My wife's 3 series is far superior. The bean counters seem to have got involved on this model.

~Martin have you sat in one? No way are all the controls as nice as the current model.
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Martin
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
Sat in the new 5 series yesterday and although the leather dash and architecture looked good the switchgear quality was nothing other than appalling. My wife's 3 series is far superior. The bean counters seem to have got involved on this model.

~Martin have you sat in one? No way are all the controls as nice as the current model.


Only briefly, I didn't have much time to check it out properly but it felt like a step backwards in a number of areas and the leather dash is vinyl.  Quite good in a way, as I feel no desire to change mine.
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Chris M Wanted a V-10
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ especially as the VED/road fund tax willl be somewhat more expensive on a new 5 in your spec after the end of this month.

BTW do you have a water temperature gauge in the 5? The videos I have seen of the X3 show an mpg meter instead at the base of the speedo or tacho, but as it's a digital display maybe it can be altered? The other small gauge appears to be the fuel level which cannot be altered for something else
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Martin
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
^ especially as the VED/road fund tax willl be somewhat more expensive on a new 5 in your spec after the end of this month.

BTW do you have a water temperature gauge in the 5? The videos I have seen of the X3 show an mpg meter instead at the base of the speedo or tacho, but as it's a digital display maybe it can be altered? The other small gauge appears to be the fuel level which cannot be altered for something else


The road tax doesn't make a difference, it's a drop in the ocean compared to depreciation and fuel costs.

The current X3 has the partial black panel display from the pre-LCI 5 Series (similar to full black panel in the 1/2/3 Series.....) and it has an oil temperature gauge on far right hand side.  The fuel gauge is the same size, but on the far left.
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Roadsterstu
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
^ especially as the VED/road fund tax willl be somewhat more expensive on a new 5 in your spec after the end of this month.

BTW do you have a water temperature gauge in the 5? The videos I have seen of the X3 show an mpg meter instead at the base of the speedo or tacho, but as it's a digital display maybe it can be altered? The other small gauge appears to be the fuel level which cannot be altered for something else


Water temp guages seem to have fallen out of favour. There isn't one in the V60. Most that do have them are simply a guage that sits at one point until it's too hot, at which point it pings up to the top. So you might as well just have a light. Plus, cars don't overheat like they used to.
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Chris M Wanted a V-10
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not overheating that worries me, it's knowing when the engine is up to temperature and ready for a decent caning if required.
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting comments about the interior, as that was the outstanding thing in the previous model. If only they'd done an M5 Touring ...
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Big Blue
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
Interesting comments about the interior, as that was the outstanding thing in the previous model. If only they'd done an M5 Touring ...


There is always the B5 BiTurbo Touring. I think I've seen one recently.....
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Martin
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
It's not overheating that worries me, it's knowing when the engine is up to temperature and ready for a decent caning if required.


Isn't it more important that the oil is up to temperature before you 'cane' it?
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Chris M Wanted a V-10
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:

Isn't it more important that the oil is up to temperature before you 'cane' it?

I thought that engine oil heated up faster than water?

I have read on at least one occasion that an oil temperature gauge is only necessary if the engine designers got their sums wrong
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Boxer6
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
Martin wrote:

Isn't it more important that the oil is up to temperature before you 'cane' it?

I thought that engine oil heated up faster than water?

I have read on at least one occasion that an oil temperature gauge is only necessary if the engine designers got their sums wrong


Any comparison I've ever seen shows oil heats up waaay slower than water; one I saw on a TT Legacy showed the water up to temp where the oil temp needle had barely moved! Scary.
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Martin
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
Martin wrote:

Isn't it more important that the oil is up to temperature before you 'cane' it?

I thought that engine oil heated up faster than water?

I have read on at least one occasion that an oil temperature gauge is only necessary if the engine designers got their sums wrong


That's not my understanding at all, getting the oil up to the right temperature is much more important than the water, as it's not lubricating the engine properly unlike its warm.  Unless you're just concerned about the heater blowing warm air.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin and Boxer6 are correct. The oil heats up much slower than the water and it is oil temperature which is important when considering damage to the engine.

Often ignored is the gearbox oil which heats up even more slowly than the engine oil.

Most cars will take at least 5 miles to get properly up to temperature for engine oil. Diesels also take longer than petrols to warm up because they are more thermally efficient and don't waste as much energy heating other things up.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow a car forum talking about oil.

Yes, the oil needs to be at the right temperature to achieve its stated viscosity and protect your engine properly. It's why M-cars have a rev range light system on the rev counter until the oil is warm enough. The colder the "water" (coolant) the better: it's there to keep the engine cool and the oil at the right temperature.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
 Unless you're just concerned about the heater blowing warm air.


*backs slowly away whistling to himself*
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Tim
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reckon that the oil takes a minimum of 4 times as long to heat up - I've got oil temp gauges on the M5 and 370 and had one on the Alfa too.

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