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simonp
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:33 pm    Post subject: Not good news  Reply with quote

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-01-0...k-over-potentially-ruinous-costs/
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JohnC
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not good news at all but someone must be making money from F1, so where is it all going. It's a bit like football where the clubs largely struggle to survive financially and the players and agents take all the cream.

Without the circuits there is no sport, so F1 needs to find a way of letting a bit more cash go to the circuits (or perhaps take a bit less from them!)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not loss making though is it?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
It's not loss making though is it?


In the article they describe it as loss-making but also then not fulfilling the anticipated support to the running costs of the circuit which is not quite the same thing

Either way. F1 no longer has the cachet it used to - no loss

I'm currently watching Dakar on day 3 - that is a proper event.
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Sav
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

F1 has problems ahead in relation to contracts with circuits. It appears that Liberty is keen to preserve traditional European races, and doesn’t mind if circuits pay less annually – note the strange revival of the French GP. But if you are Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Singapore etc, surely you’re going to look at how much less other host countries pay and equally want those reduced fees. Malaysia has already pulled out, and they were paying amongst the most to annually host a Grand Prix.

Take out the massive state subsidies of certain host countries, and too they would be struggling to fund the annual fee like Silverstone. Circuits like Bahrain and Abu Dhabi aren’t anywhere near as used as Silverstone.

What are these two other circuits? Which other two circuits in the UK realistically have the necessary infrastructure and safety standards to host F1? Donington? They’re still trying to clear up the mess that was caused by their failed attempt to host the GP a few years ago – every year I go there it looks a bit better – but you can still see the construction that was attempted. It is a shame that Jonathan Palmer doesn’t own a circuit that is suitable; I think he is one person who could make the British GP work – a real racer and commercially astute.

Bernie is a total genius and he gets too much criticism, but when Silverstone continually runs an outstanding Grand Prix with over 100,000 on race day but still faces a challenge to pay FOM’s fees, there is something seriously wrong with that.
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Sav
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Bullitt wrote:
PhilD wrote:
It's not loss making though is it?




I'm currently watching Dakar on day 3 - that is a proper event.


I love the dakar. Its motorsport in January - yes please.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The annual rant about the British GP. The BRDC got used to the GP basically paying for the rest of the year of their members poorling round in MGs when they just threw a few scaffold stands up and issued a couple of hot dog stall licenses and still charged through the eyeballs for tickets.

The past couple of decades has shown what other circuits can do and in spite of the lack of funding by the public purse the British GP maintained its position of one of the best and indeed the catering, gigs, organisation etc are pretty impressive (having seen the shocking state of Brno in 2016 in comparison to Silverstone in 2015). Its a great facility and, like most things including The Olympics, when the Brits try to do things well they actually do them better.

The BRDC need to find another way to make chunky income aside from the 2 big events (GP and MotoGP) or cut their overhead substantially. The old clubhouse, the BRDC grandstand are all a throwback to when men with moustaches used to whizz round in MGs, wearing tweeds and with a pipe hanging out of their mouth. The rest of the facilities and the business lettings are superb and forward-thinking but the heart of the BRDC is a comittee of old men that bemoan the fact that every year there are more corporate guests in the clubhouse, singularly missing the point that their appearance is paying for those old men to attend for free.
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simonp
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnC wrote:
someone must be making money from F1, so where is it all going?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think F1 is going to head into a gentle decline.  It has largely lacked more than in-team competition for decades and the sport's governance gives not a shit about its fans.  Looking forward to another GP-free year!
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Tim
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
It has largely lacked more than in-team competition for decades and the sport's governance gives not a shit about its fans.  Looking forward to another GP-free year!


+1

It's even lost all of its personalities.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
It has largely lacked more than in-team competition for decades and the sport's governance gives not a shit about its fans.  Looking forward to another GP-free year!


+1

It's even lost all of its personalities.


Agree with you both, twelfth has summed it up nicely - it used to be an essential part of Sunday's, now it's something I might watch if I can be bothered.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still hanging in there and will watch every race in 2017, as I did last season.
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The words 'hanging in there' do tend to support what's just been said!
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is so much money and influence in F1 that I don't expect a a gentle decline into oblivion. Just need to get rid of the poison dwarf.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does and it feels like I'm hanging in sometimes, but I did really enjoy a few races and I do think it will improve.  Eventually.

I was thinking about getting a 4K TV and SKY Q to take advantage of the improved (picture quality) coverage this year, but it feels a bit wasteful when my current TV is only 2 years old.  Not completely ruled it out though.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would miss my Sunday afternoon naps - the repetitive drone of the engines and cars going round and round with little happening is very soporific.

I generally awake refreshed just as Lewis or Rosberg are just picking up their trophy.
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Chris M Wanted a V-10
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
I think F1 is going to head into a gentle decline.  It has largely lacked more than in-team competition for decades and the sport's governance gives not a shit about its fans.  Looking forward to another GP-free year!


(Cynically,) I think that for many years F1's main aim/sole purpose has been to increase the size of Bernie's bank balance
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
I would miss my Sunday afternoon naps - the repetitive drone of the engines and cars going round and round with little happening is very soporific.



Maybe you should move closer to the M25?
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Humphrey The Pug
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Tim wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
It has largely lacked more than in-team competition for decades and the sport's governance gives not a shit about its fans.  Looking forward to another GP-free year!


+1

It's even lost all of its personalities.


Agree with you both, twelfth has summed it up nicely - it used to be an essential part of Sunday's, now it's something I might watch if I can be bothered.


I used to have to be in on a Sunday to watch it, the wife knew that it was "my thing", every two weeks wasn't an issue, I worked 1 in 3 so would tape it if working and watch when I got home, however if I was home I made sure I watched it live.

Now I watch it if I'm not doing anything else, dog walk or meet up with friends for Sunday lunch; "oh I'll tape it and maybe watch it in the evening, if it doesn't clash with something else".
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simonp
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject: Bad news part 2 Reply with quote

One of the minnows have gone bust.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38530855
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Sav
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

F1 still hugely excites me every weekend, but the sport needs to change direction in a few key areas. I think the extent of the powertrain change in 2014 was a mistake; it only achieved Honda returning - but they are irrelevant and towards the back of the grid with McLaren. These rules were supposed to showcase road-relevant technology and consequently more automotive groups would enter, but this hasn’t really happened.

Just like LMP1, F1 has powertrain rules tailored for mass motor manufacturers…except that most motor manufacturers just aren’t interested. The technical freedom in LMP1 is often lauded, but why don’t more than two car companies want to compete if the formula was so attractive? Undeniably, an approximate £200 million annual investment for 10k viewers for regular WEC races (in the UK) isn't great a investment.

This obsession in road relevance has adversely hit privateers in both categories. Who else wants to go up the against the select few car companies that compete in F1 and WEC respectively, with their vast R&D and financial resources? F1 in particular needs to be feasible for independent engine suppliers. It costs approximately 18 million euros for an F1 team to lease engines for a season. I don’t blame F1’s current engine suppliers at all; they’ve been forced to spend many millions on these hybrid V6’s – the cost has to be partly recouped from somewhere.

Noise is a cornerstone attraction of motorsport. Even if a race was boring, the sound of F1 was so utterly stunning in-person. I don’t necessarily advocate going back to natural aspiration, but these need to sound like proper race cars – race cars that make people go wow. Generally across motorsport, get rid of loud cars – and you remove a big part of the spectacle. People just don’t give a toss if their Prius on the M25 has some relation to an F1 car.

I would increase competition by severely limiting aerodynamic development and the aerodynamics of the cars themselves. Front wings would disappear, and wind tunnel testing would be banned. The aerodynamic development of the last 15 years has fascinated Ted Kravitz on a Friday morning, but it has harmed racing, arguably increased danger and made the sport ridiculously expensive. In turn, you could ditch DRS, artificially degrading tyres and excessive run-off areas. I would also standardise more components that nobody can see.

NASCAR and IndyCar has been so exciting for years. They have thrilling racing, tight competition, proper track limits (the wall!), no over-zealous driving standards and amazing finishes. F1 is still fantastic, but the American series’ represent the very essence of motorsport – loud, exciting and just a little bit crazy.
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Sav
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Faster cornering speeds…..and bigger run-off areas for the Albert Park circuit: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news...ralian-gp-track-revisions-863308/

So if you didn’t like excess run-off areas in 2016, they’ll be growing at a number of circuits in 2017. I’m not sure who benefits from faster cornering speeds and more downforce. The fans won’t notice or care about cars cornering 50 kph faster, and circuit owners will have to shell out more cash to accommodate this new formula.

My solution: reduce downforce and increase power – this would result in better racing, more visible driver control and lower and therefore safer cornering speeds. I would also ban power steering and tyre warmers too. And before people say this is impossible, IndyCar has neither power steering nor tyre warmers for its road course events. Those out laps would suddenly be very interesting….
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The benefits of the hybrid engines is marginal, especially when you consider the cost in both money and pollution of transporting cars/teams all over the world.  A return to basic engines and decent levels of downforce without the extremes should improve the racing.  The noise would also be something of an improvement, I would like to see a set of rules where teams can choose to innovate on cylinder count for a start.  A bit of freedom might even assist teams in the lower order to remain on the grid.  Just my ten pence worth.


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