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Warming up locked

 
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Alf McQueef
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:02 pm    Post subject: Warming up locked  Reply with quote

It seems that you can't start the Jag, lock it, and wander back in for a bit of toast before heading on your way in icy weather. This is a bit of a pain - it has a heated windscreen but its still nice to let the thing run for a few minutes in the winter - and be indoors yourself!

I thought with keyless this would be a no-brainer but you can drive off without the key, it only needs it for starting. The BMW had a specific sequence for locking it with the engine running, but a quick search suggests Jaguar do not (I may be wrong...). Can you do this? Would you want to? I know you are not supposed to, but a lot of people do do it on very icy mornings and it seems fair enough to me if only for 5 mins or so.

Not sure about the C-Max, but that car also has heated windscreen and is the fastest at producing hot air of any car I have driven, it's impressive - it must have been designed that way. A lot of modern cars - especially diesels - are incredibly slow at making hot air inside.
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Chris M Wanted a V-10
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Warming up locked Reply with quote

Alf McQueef wrote:
Not sure about the C-Max, but that car also has heated windscreen and is the fastest at producing hot air of any car I have driven, it's impressive - it must have been designed that way. A lot of modern cars - especially diesels - are incredibly slow at making hot air inside.

You need to drive/own a Volvo, I don't know how they do it but the succession that my parents have owned always produced hot air within a few hundred yards of driving off on cold mornings.  Even my diesel C-Max is good at producing heat from cold, but not as fast at doing so as the V70 D5.

As for locking the car whilst leaving the engine running, it is I believe illegal to do that; the car is supposed to be "attended" all the time that the engine is running; Stu can probably confirm current legislation
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JohnC
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can certainly start mine, lock it and walk away with the key still in my pocket but I don't do it just in case some moron put a brick through the window, climbed in and drove off.

Mine heats up pretty quickly and I reckon it must have an electric element or a very short by-pass circuit that allows it to warm up quickly. Heated seats and steering wheel help a lot though: we must all be getting soft!
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Resident Spanner
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1 - It's illegal in the UK, even locked.
2 - It's not a good idea to leave an engine idling with oil like treacle for prolonged periods, massive cam nose and tappet wear compared to normal operation.
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TreVoR
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get in mine, defrost both sides and drive off dressed like Scott of the Antarctic. It is warm by the time I reach the A68. It is at the top of a hill so being on the turbo helps warm it up quickly.
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Roadrunner
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Benz is blowing hot air within a minute of startup. I assume it must have some sort of auxillary heater.
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Frank Bullitt
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roadrunner wrote:
The Benz is blowing hot air within a minute of startup. I assume it must have some sort of auxillary heater.


The A2 does, below 6c it's warm in a couple of minutes; I wouldn't do it anyway, as. RS says, it's poor mechanical sympathy
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Roadsterstu
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:41 am    Post subject: Re: Warming up locked Reply with quote

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
Alf McQueef wrote:
Not sure about the C-Max, but that car also has heated windscreen and is the fastest at producing hot air of any car I have driven, it's impressive - it must have been designed that way. A lot of modern cars - especially diesels - are incredibly slow at making hot air inside.

You need to drive/own a Volvo, I don't know how they do it but the succession that my parents have owned always produced hot air within a few hundred yards of driving off on cold mornings.  Even my diesel C-Max is good at producing heat from cold, but not as fast at doing so as the V70 D5.

As for locking the car whilst leaving the engine running, it is I believe illegal to do that; the car is supposed to be "attended" all the time that the engine is running; Stu can probably confirm current legislation


My Volvos have always been the same. Heat up very quickly.

Leaving a car unattended and running is illegal on the road. Not on your driveway. However, it seems to be a "thing" that happens more often. What's wrong with starting it, deicing it and driving off? Driving is the most effective way to warm your car, with increasing engine speeds rather than idling away and wasting fuel. It's also inviting a theft that your insurance may well refuse to pay out on.
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being more than adequately powered, I'm surprised that the Jaag doesn't heat up quickly.  I get heat in worthwhile quantities after about a minute.  My understanding is that idling for any longer than necessary is a bad idea, mechanically.
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Chris M Wanted a V-10
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best solution, if you have the time and space, is a mains-powered fan heater running from the locked car into your house.  Make sure it's suitably placed in the car so as not to start a fire, then turn it on 10 minutes before you leave home. Unplug cable and either take to car, or remove cable and heater from car before driving off.
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Big Blue
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best solution: climate controlled garage.
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Blarno
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy warms up quite quickly for a diesel and doesn't have the auxillary heater either.

Back when I had the Legacy, I had a turbo timer fitted, so I could go outside, start the car, set the timer for 15 minutes, then whip out the key and lock it. Back inside, have a brew and come back to a fully warmed, nicely defrosted car that had switched itself off and waited for you.
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Giant
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leaving it running is not something I'd ever do, I'd be paranoid someone would smash a window and nick it as John says.

The Astra takes an ages to get warm, 8miles into my commute, no auxiliary heater here! It doesn't help that my commute starts with generally 40mph at very light throttle.
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Blarno
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The beauty with the Legacy and the turbo timer was that even if someone broke the window, the steering lock was still engaged and the engine would be killed as soon as the handbrake was dropped.
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Roadsterstu
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the subject of keyless entry/starting, how long will cars run for if you don't have the key with you. For example, I dropped off Mrs R at the shops whilst I went to park,  last week. We were in the Captur and she had the key in her bag, as I discovered once it started beeping at me as I was off away across the car park. Good job I didn't stall it. Then I couldn't lock it once I'd parked!
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him
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Warming up locked Reply with quote

Roadsterstu wrote:
...What's wrong with starting it, deicing it and driving off? Driving is the most effective way to warm your car, with increasing engine speeds rather than idling away and wasting fuel...

This

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKALgXDwou4

simonp please don't watch the video as it will bore you!  
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simonp
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The car we had in America had a engine start button on the remote...
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
Best solution, if you have the time and space, is a mains-powered fan heater running from the locked car into your house.  Make sure it's suitably placed in the car so as not to start a fire, then turn it on 10 minutes before you leave home. Unplug cable and either take to car, or remove cable and heater from car before driving off.


Yes getting dressed and running a fan heater into my car on a dark freezing morning is definitely the "best" solution. Who wants to sit in their centrally heated home with a steaming mug of coffee and hot buttery toast and press a couple of buttons on their phone to warm their car?  
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Alf McQueef
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roadsterstu wrote:
On the subject of keyless entry/starting, how long will cars run for if you don't have the key with you. For example, I dropped off Mrs R at the shops whilst I went to park,  last week. We were in the Captur and she had the key in her bag, as I discovered once it started beeping at me as I was off away across the car park. Good job I didn't stall it. Then I couldn't lock it once I'd parked!


Mine will drive without the key until you switch it off with no real drama - the Ford does start shouting at you for not having the key but I think again you can drive as far as you want.

I don't advocate the unattended idling often - just the handful of days a car is caked in ice/snow, and then just to pop back into the house for a few minutes - maybe just for a jug of hot water, or de-icer. It's nice to know it's locked. I'm certainly not going to cry about mechanical wear on a car hardly ever driven in stop start traffic (as if engine wear is a thing any more - almost everything else is more likely to fail on a modern car - assuming you are using the right amount of the right oil).
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Racing Teatray
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As someone who has a gated driveway, it wouldn't bother me to leave the car running for a minute or two. However, there is no practical need with the BMW – it has heated seats and spits out warm air pretty quickly once started. The car that does take an age to produce any meaningful heat is the Fiat. So I assume it is related to engine size…

I remember that with my Saab, you could remove the key with the engine running, lock it and wander off.

The BMW has a hissy fit if the ignition key is in my coat pocket on the back seat! A warning screen comes up on the Nav screen and it won't start.
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Big Blue
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The heated seats in the Gorilla are so fierce that after a minute they need to be turned off. Heated steering wheel is a bit slower.

The E46 gets all the cold weather use so I just run it and scrape the side windows whilst it does the front and rear. As to driving off asap, driving on suburban roads with anything other than fully clear windows all round is decidedly perilous.
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Martin
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The heated seats settings in the 535d are based on a temperature setting, so it's like climate control.  Setting 1 heats the seat to a decent temperature quickly then shuts off, so that's all you really need.  Settings 2 and 3 are usually too hot, but I did feel the need for 2 this morning.

It warms up wishing a couple of mins so that's not an issue, but BMW must have out a summer mix in the washer bottle when it was in for service, as they still weren't working after just over an hour of driving.  Will have to sort that out when I get home.
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Tim
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 'new' 320 takes quite a while to get decent heat out of and the seats are fairly slow too.
The heater is a lot slower than the E46.


Racing Teatray wrote:
The car that does take an age to produce any meaningful heat is the Fiat. So I assume it is related to engine size…


That's weird - the best car I ever had for providing heat was my Mk1 Punto 75 - it would give warm air by the end of the street.
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Frank Bullitt
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roadsterstu wrote:
On the subject of keyless entry/starting, how long will cars run for if you don't have the key with you. For example, I dropped off Mrs R at the shops whilst I went to park,  last week. We were in the Captur and she had the key in her bag, as I discovered once it started beeping at me as I was off away across the car park. Good job I didn't stall it. Then I couldn't lock it once I'd parked!


The DS4 does it if the key is more than about 4' away from the transponder (in the centre console between the seats). Drove the DS4 from cold the other day, it has meaningful heat within a mile which surprised me, but it has heated bum warmers so doesn't matter really

The A2 warms up quicker below 6C than above (until 10-12C) as the auxiliary heater means the engine doesn't take over cabin heating until up to full temp.
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Alf McQueef
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Jaguar produces warm air pretty fast - as you'd expect of a big petrol lump -  but I'd say the air takes little longer to warm than the BMW, which had all sorts of fancy tech like closing slates on the grille to warm really fast. Expensive tech presumably done because there is such am emphasis in the Euro cycle on cold running.

Again the Jag seats heat pretty quickly but definitely slower than the BMW ones. For me heated seats are a winter must - I stay cold in the mornings and even a one-hour commute I used to do saw me arrive with a cold back when done in negative temps on leather seats. I usually leave them on the lowest setting for ages, after an initial blast. I'm jealous of people with heated wheels.

And yes BB - anyone who sets off without clearing the side windows properly is a knob, wherever they live. What people think they are going to do when they pull up to a T junction having just cleared the front window, and maybe a tiny bit of the driver's, is beyond me!! Even with clear windows a lot of people around here don't see you.

The C Max impresses me in winter - hot air comes out incredibly fast and the cloth seats are not heated, but feel warm quickly, unlike leather, and the heated windscreen works well. I imagine car makers either bother to consider this sort of thing, or don't. One touch I like on the Jag is both front and rear heated screens come on automatically if you start the car below 3 degrees.

PS - anyone who is worried about what idling from cold does to their car might want to see what dealers do - all 3 cars I have had Telematics in have been idled for between 30 and 60 minutes per dealer visit. Lazy arses.
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Nelson
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the heated front screen on the Mondeo is a very boon, both it and the heated rear screen will come on automatically if the outside temperatures drop below 0c on start-up and one quick press of the button which directs max-temp to the front screen with the air-con on and the fan blower to max is very useful. Engine running for just a few moments to let them work their magic and warm the cabin as you shut the doors and attend to de-icing the side windows and head/rear lights

One thing I have noticed recently is that the engine temperature gauge is very temperament, it might slowly creep up and stay at its normal warm position of middle of the gauge (90c) or it might stay at below. Both ways the engine produces good heat through the vents even about a mile into the journey, and stills cools on it lowest setting and warms up very nicely on max (28c on the climate control display) and every temperature inbetween but the temperature gauge on the dials often doesn't get above the outer cold markings even well into a journey.

I have had 2 new thermostats replaced only recently, first was faulty and replacement worked well but might be playing up again. One thing I have noticed is that fuel consumption has slightly increased.

Garage has had a laser tyre device test the temperature of the engine and all is ok. All fluids are topped up and only recently serviced...fluids and filters service.

Car is used mainly for journeys of less than 6 miles but every week we do go out and I get to give it some revs, warm it up properly on a good 40-60 mile run but gauge doesn't just sit at perfect middle now on any run.

Could it be a faulty sender to the gauge?
Car still drives really well, no flat spots, pulls very well indeed through the gears, no juddering, but seeing a temperature gauge at a third on the dial does worry me a little....advice
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Chris M Wanted a V-10
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
Best solution, if you have the time and space, is a mains-powered fan heater running from the locked car into your house.  Make sure it's suitably placed in the car so as not to start a fire, then turn it on 10 minutes before you leave home. Unplug cable and either take to car, or remove cable and heater from car before driving off.


Yes getting dressed and running a fan heater into my car on a dark freezing morning is definitely the "best" solution. Who wants to sit in their centrally heated home with a steaming mug of coffee and hot buttery toast and press a couple of buttons on their phone to warm their car?  

You run the fan heater into the car the night before. In the morning, you just turn the mains on in the house !  You can even use a timeswitch to do this for you if you want
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Chris M Wanted a V-10
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nelson wrote:

Could it be a faulty sender to the gauge?
Car still drives really well, no flat spots, pulls very well indeed through the gears, no juddering, but seeing a temperature gauge at a third on the dial does worry me a little....advice

The sender is probably very cheap, most likely under £10 and if you are lucky it will be a 10-minute job to change it without any coolant loss.  I've changed a couple in the past to cure errant gauges.   IIRC my old Rover 820 had 2 senders on the thermostat housing, one just for the temp gauge and the other for the engine management ECU. I changed both at the same time, to be sure
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Roadsterstu
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 to a possible sender fault. A plug in OBD11 dongle will show the temperature as read by the ECU and that could be compared for consistency against the gauge.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My SAAB 9000 had a thermos-flask type tank that would deliver immediate hot water to the coolant system. If the car had been run in the previous 24 hours both the engine and cabin air would benefit.
I believe the Prius has the same system, I assume to aid fuel efficiency. Why don't more manufacturers fit such a system? It's not exactly rocket science.


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