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Tim
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:42 am    Post subject: Ford Mustang  Reply with quote

Well, I'd like to be able to give you my impressions of the Mustang GT I had booked to test drive on Sunday afternoon but I got a text after work on Friday to tell me it would have to be postponed as the car was needed for a 'performance event'  
That was the reason they  gave me for not being able to test it the prior weekend  

I intended subjecting it to a performance event myself.
Anyway its been postponed to next Sunday (fingers crossed).

If I was a serious buyer (maybe in the future but hopefully not yet) I would be mighty pissed off about this.
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JohnC
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That shows very little respect for their customers or potential customers. I would be away elsewhere looking for a test drive.
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Martin
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnC wrote:
That shows very little respect for their customers or potential customers. I would be away elsewhere looking for a test drive.


Me too, that's terrible service.
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Tim
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
JohnC wrote:
That shows very little respect for their customers or potential customers. I would be away elsewhere looking for a test drive.


Me too, that's terrible service.


I agree but in this part of the world the choice is fairly limited.
The test drive is with Macrae & Dick in Perth but apart from them I'm looking at Arnold Shark in Dundee or I can't remember who in Dunfermline.

There's a Ford garage 2 miles from my house but they had one for a couple of weeks at launch and haven't had one since.
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Tim
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got my test drive on Sunday.
It wasn't particularly long - approx. 5 miles each for me & Mrs Tim - but it was enough to make a decision.

Before that here are my thoughts:-

Outside - it's fairly chunky to look at. I haven't checked the dimensions but it must be a bit bigger than my E39 5 series.
I think a lot of the visual bulk is caused by the height of the bonnet but you probably sit as high as in something like a current 5 series.
The fact it was bright yellow was probably a contributing factor.

Anyway I like the look and the styling details.

Inside - it's clearly built down to a price, the plastics are fairly cheap and the rotary dials are flimsy feeling.
The seats were comfy and supportive (although Mrs Tim said the bolster got in the way when changing gear) but with the driver's seat set for me - a mighty 5 foot 7 - there was barely any room between the seat back and the rear seat, so it's really a 3 seater at best.
It has plenty of toys and I quite liked the central display and the various buttons/switches were ok, slight cheapness notwithstanding.
This one had the fancy sound system fitted which is certainly powerful enough.
The boot was a decent size although not as cavernous as the salesman clearly thought. I was surprised to see split/fold rear seats as well.

The drive - the car was cold when we set off which caused a bit of a dilemma 1/2 a mile later when we got onto the A9 but then I realised that I wouldn't be buying this actual car so I got over that.
And here's where it kinda goes a bit wrong.
I gave it full beans from about 30 in 3rd all the way to the red line (actually a white line and quite indistinct on first acquaintance) which equates to around 90.
I tried this again after a small village and my first impression was confirmed.
It wouldn't see where the M5 had gone. It pulls hard enough when it gets going but the low rev pickup is quite flat - for a 5 litre car - and I'd say that lasts up past 4k revs. I can't believe that my 15 year old M5's variable valve timing is better than whatever Ford have applied but that seems the case.
I thought initially that the car had been hampered with tall gearing as 6th appears to be around 40mph/thousand rpm but on reflection I think 3rd was very similar to the M5.
It also wasn't quite as loud as I expected although it did still sound lovely.

So, overall, a bit of a disappointment but that's mainly because we came to it from the 370 and the M5.
If we were coming from, say, a N/A 330 it would be a different story and perhaps if it was different in character to the M5 we might've been more interested but it's not.

Mrs Tim reached the same conclusion and has given implied approval for some method to make the M5 a bit noisier  
I might go out tonight and hacksaw off the back boxes  
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PG
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless it is a piece of exotica, a V8 you need to thrash just seems to be missing the point to me.
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

90 in 3rd isn't that tall-geared, I would suggest.  I know my car has a much higher rev limit, but it's geared to just over the ton in 3rd and it's not unusual in that respect.

I must have missed the original posting - being told something like that by text is just pathetic.
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Frank Bullitt
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree on the behaviour of the deale, that's shit.

I get why people like them but they are a bit Meh to me - the bloke on TG who did the road test bailed how I felt from my armchair - do it properly with a classic.
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Tim
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
90 in 3rd isn't that tall-geared, I would suggest. †I know my car has a much higher rev limit, but it's geared to just over the ton in 3rd and it's not unusual in that respect.

I must have missed the original posting - being told something like that by text is just pathetic.


My Fiat Coupe will do about 100 in 3rd so the more I think about it the less I think the Mustang is overgeared, it's just lacking a decent bottom end.

The salesman had arranged to confirm the booking by text but I was a little put out to get the cancellation that way, still I thrashed the nuts off his cold-engine Mustang so I got my payback.

I really wanted to want the car (if that makes sense) because I realise I'm quite 'anti' towards the predictable German fayre - that all costs £20k more.

As I said I'm sure if you came to it from something lesser powered it'd be great but it didn't really have the pickup I hoped for.
Mrs Tim actually said it'd be better if it had the 370's engine!!
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JohnC
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about this instead?

https://www.mercedes-benz.net/p/u.../e8dcc745f3053a8820998b56c9b72bc2

Or go test drive this, the best looking estate car ever

http://www.audi.co.uk/used-cars/u...71842-14955.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_
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Tim
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnC wrote:
How about this instead?

https://www.mercedes-benz.net/p/u.../e8dcc745f3053a8820998b56c9b72bc2

Or go test drive this, the best looking estate car ever

http://www.audi.co.uk/used-cars/u...71842-14955.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_



Thanks John, that's not helpful  

I was reading CAR mag this morning and I see they've 'bought' an 8k mile 15 plate E63 estate for £41k.
That might be tempting (albeit I'd be looking at something older). Wonder what its like in snow!
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Scouse
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're kind of spoilt by the M5 Tim! Don't forget the M5 was north of £60k new so really should have a better engine than a £30k Ford.

I read the original review of the new Ford engine in Evo with a sense of disapointment when the reviewer was having a wank over the higher rev limit, flat plane crank and four valve heads etc. Those things are fine in the right car, but a yank V8 needs capacity and low-end torque above all else.
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Tim
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scouse wrote:
I think you're kind of spoilt by the M5 Tim! Don't forget the M5 was north of £60k new so really should have a better engine than a £30k Ford.

I read the original review of the new Ford engine in Evo with a sense of disapointment when the reviewer was having a wank over the higher rev limit, flat plane crank and four valve heads etc. Those things are fine in the right car, but a yank V8 needs capacity and low-end torque above all else.


You're right about the M5, we've had a few reminders in the last month or so!

Isn't the flat plane crank in a special one, rather than the standard V8?

One surprising thing that came as a result of the test drive was that they gave us a trade-in price for the Nissan - on the basis of today's price rather than what they'd give us in 10 months time if we ordered - of £18k.
That's only £2k less than we paid retail from a Nissan dealer 12 months ago  
That's almost depreciation free motoring.

Anyway the salesman phoned for our decision earlier and on hearing the word NO was clearly not interested in knowing why.
Twat.
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Frank Bullitt
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Problem is, he's not used to dealing in high performance cars and customers who want more than a limp coffee and the overpowering whiff of Kouros - he's used to selling Focuses to people with a budget and favourite colour.
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Chip Butty
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the same price as a V8 Mustang with the GT pack, you can get a 440i m sport coupe with adaptive suspension, extended leather, nappa leather dash and door tops + speaker upgrade and advanced parking pack. (About £37k)

The BMW is a touch faster or much faster (if you compare autos) , cheaper to run and you can't compare interior quality (especially if you tick extended leather + nappa dash).

And it's not like the 4 series coupe is a wart covered arse when compared Ford's page 3 lovely.

In the Mustang's favour, it has a V8 and it might retain more value (although you wouldn't tell from the PCP pricing) - but objectively and subjectively (in more than a few areas), it gets thumped. Especially if the V8 isn't particularly " vee eighteee " in the way it sounds or performs.

I am not saying the BMW is amaze balls, but the Mustang looks like a poor package overall when you look at what else is out there.
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Tim
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris, the salesman was a bit wiffy and reminded us of someone who we eventually identified as the smug BBC weather forecaster Tomas Shaftyernacker.


Chip Butty wrote:
For the same price as a V8 Mustang with the GT pack, you can get a 440i m sport coupe with adaptive suspension, extended leather, nappa leather dash and door tops + speaker upgrade and advanced parking pack. (About £37k)

The BMW is a touch faster or much faster (if you compare autos) , cheaper to run and you can't compare interior quality (especially if you tick extended leather + nappa dash).

And it's not like the 4 series coupe is a wart covered arse when compared Ford's page 3 lovely.

In the Mustang's favour, it has a V8 and it might retain more value (although you wouldn't tell from the PCP pricing) - but objectively and subjectively (in more than a few areas), it gets thumped. Especially if the V8 isn't particularly " vee eighteee " in the way it sounds or performs.

I am not saying the BMW is amaze balls, but the Mustang looks like a poor package overall when you look at what else is out there.


Fair enough except.....

The BMW is just so common, the looks are uninteresting, it's 100% guaranteed to lose a lot more value and since I'm not a Queef spec auto journalist it won't matter if the Mustang isn't quite as good dynamically - the DSC will stay firmly in the ON position, just like it has in the M5 for the past 9 years  

The Mustang DOES sound V8 ey, it's just not as loud as we were anticipating.

That sounds like I'm wearing moonboots for a car I'm not going to own.
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gonnabuildabuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for ruining the dream Tim  
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gonnabuildabuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

May be this will actually be a better bet.

Bit of a sleeper too I suspect.

http://www4.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201609087564742?
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JohnC
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
May be this will actually be a better bet.

Bit of a sleeper too I suspect.

http://www4.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201609087564742?


That's a very rare beast and much more likely to have been driven "normally" rather than the "63" variants.
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Tim
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
Thanks for ruining the dream Tim †


Sorry  

Actually, though, it might be different for you - coming to it from an MX5, Mini and Honda thingy.
Even if you still had the E500 you'd probably appreciate the Mustang.
We probably would've if we only had the 370 but we've been spoilt by the M5.
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Racing Teatray
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnC wrote:
gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
May be this will actually be a better bet.

Bit of a sleeper too I suspect.

http://www4.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201609087564742?


That's a very rare beast and much more likely to have been driven "normally" rather than the "63" variants.


I just can't deal with that rear quarter light - bugs the crap out of me.
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PG
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chip Butty wrote:
For the same price as a V8 Mustang with the GT pack, you can get a 440i m sport coupe with adaptive suspension, extended leather, nappa leather dash and door tops + speaker upgrade and advanced parking pack. (About £37k)


It strikes me therefore that the Mustang is over-priced for the UK market. As is usual when American companies bring goods to the UK. They never learn.
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Tim
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PG wrote:
Chip Butty wrote:
For the same price as a V8 Mustang with the GT pack, you can get a 440i m sport coupe with adaptive suspension, extended leather, nappa leather dash and door tops + speaker upgrade and advanced parking pack. (About £37k)


It strikes me therefore that the Mustang is over-priced for the UK market. As is usual when American companies bring goods to the UK. They never learn.


How many 440is have BMW sold?
Ford must be past 5k Mustangs (in total) by now in about a year?

I don't think you can compare the 2 - I imagine the BM is a fast refined tourer whereas the Mustang will be a 'rougher'.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Mustang's list price is very good value for the amount of car, and engine, that the buyer gets.  

It's an offbeat choice (although still quite a mainstream choice, as the sales figures have shown) and I applaud Ford very much.  But I agree with Tim that it probably isn't the best answer for some.  For others, the looks, character and V8 will be ample value, and it won't matter that the car is a blt big, a bit lazy and even a bit too quiet compared to other rivals (new and used).
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Frank Bullitt
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuntman wrote:
I think the Mustang's list price is very good value for the amount of car, and engine, that the buyer gets. †

It's an offbeat choice (although still quite a mainstream choice, as the sales figures have shown) and I applaud Ford very much. †But I agree with Tim that it probably isn't the best answer for some. †For others, the looks, character and V8 will be ample value, and it won't matter that the car is a blt big, a bit lazy and even a bit too quiet compared to other rivals (new and used).


+1, I can't imagine there are too many people who want a Mustang and end up with a 440i instead, likewise I'm not sure that those who want a 440i pass a Ford dealership and think 'scrap that'.

The Mustang doesn't appeal to me much, but the Camaro on the other hand, I'd be well happy (LHD not being an issue).
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Chris M Wanted a V-10
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Bullitt wrote:
I can't imagine there are too many people who want a Mustang and end up with a 440i instead.....

If I had the space to keep one outside my house and could stomach the fuel (and likely insurance) costs I'd seriously consider having a Mustang as my "fun" car, but I'd never even consider a 440i (or any other 2, 3 or 4 series)


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