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Some of my pre-decimal coins

 
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Stuntman
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:59 pm    Post subject: Some of my pre-decimal coins  Reply with quote

I beg the Forum’s indulgence for me to show some photographs of another of my interests: pre-decimal coins.   I mostly collect coins minted between 1816 and 1967 inclusive but also have some earlier milled silver shillings and some George III copper between 1797 and 1807.  

Here are some examples of pretty much every denomination of circulated coin during that time.  I like collecting different denominations of coin and different types ( monarchs, designs etc) of the same coin rather than say collecting a date run of the same design of the same coin.  
Most of these have been bought in the last couple of years from online coin dealers.  Hope you enjoy looking at them!

Fractional Farthings
These were minted for use in ‘The Colonies’ but are regarded as British by collectors.  Quarter Farthings and Half Farthings were used in Ceylon (now Sri Lanka), and Third Farthings were used in Malta.  Half Farthings were also legal tender in the UK for a while in the 1840s-1860s. All these coins are tiny with the Quarter Farthing being 13.5mm in diameter and weighing 1.175 grams. There were 3840 Quarter Farthings to the pound!  The Third Farthing shown here is bronze, the other two coins are copper.








Farthings
A quarter of a penny, 960 to the pound.  These coins were made from copper until 1859, and from bronze from 1860 to 1967.  My favourites are the George IV 1821 coin (I think this is a really nice design) and the William IV coin.










Halfpennies
Again these were copper until 1859 and bronze from then on.  My favourites here are the George IV 1826 coin and the Victoria Young Head coin of 1855.  The 1967 coin is very common, it cost me 20 pence!














Pennies
Twelve pennies to a shilling, so 240 pennies to the pound.  Once again, these were copper until 1859 and bronze from then on.  The copper coins are pretty big; 34mm in diameter and weighing 18.8g.  The George IV and William IV coins are quite scarce.  My favourite is probably the Edward VII coin.
















Three-halfpence
This coin is only 12mm in diameter and weighs 0.7 grams!  They were issued for use in the colonies – mostly Malta.  




Twopence
At the other end of the spectrum, this coin is 41mm in diameter and weighs 56.7 grams!  It contained 2 ounces of copper and was known as a Cartwheel.  All are dated 1797, although it was actually produced for a few years.  Imagine how heavy your pockets would be if you received your wages in Cartwheel Twopences!




Threepences
Here are a couple of the small silver threepences, and one of the 12 sided nickel-brass coins that were minted from the 1930s-1960s.  The forthcoming new £1 coin will also be 12 sided…









Fourpence
This silver coin is also known as a Groat.  These coins were mostly used for British Guiana and were last minted in 1888.




Sixpences
My favourite of these is probably the Victoria coin with the simple wreath design.  The 1952 coin is quite scarce.








Shillings
Shillings are probably my favourite denomination of coin and I have more examples of these than any other.  The first few coins shown are ‘early milled’ examples.  The 1703 coin was made with silver captured from the Spanish Treasure Fleet by Admiral Rooke at Vigo Bay.  The 1723 coin was made with silver from the South Sea Company.  The 1739 coin is made from silver from West Country mines (the roses on the coin denote this) and the 1745 coin is made from silver captured from the Spanish by Admiral Anson on its way to Spain from Lima.  Of the later shillings, the 1905 coin is rare.






























Florins
These are sometimes considered to be Britain’s first decimal coin because the early ones have ‘One Tenth Of A Pound’ as part of the legend on the reverse.  The 1849 coin is known as the Godless Florin because it didn’t contain Dei Gratia (by the grace of God) or D.G. within the inscription.  The public weren’t impressed and it was only minted for that year.  Its replacement is known as the Gothic Florin and is the only mainstream circulating coin which used roman numerals for its date (mine is an 1872 example).  Of the others, my favourite design is the 1900 coin.  The 1905 coin is quite scarce.
















Halfcrowns
I’d love to go a bit further back in time with these.  There are five more designs of George III, George IV and William IV between 1816 and 1837 that I would like to collect at some time.  Of the ones I have, my favourite designs are the 1829, 1885 and 1900 coins.  The 1829 and 1930 coins are quite rare.
















Double Florin
This coin was only made for 4 years, from 1887 to 1890.  It was sometimes known as the barmaid’s ruin because it was similar(ish) in size to the Crown, had an identical obverse (‘heads’ side) but was worth 20% less (4 shillings rather than 5 shillings).  Once again, the public didn’t take to them.




Crowns
These were used as circulating coins until the early 1900s with subsequent issues being commemorative or aimed at collectors.  The traditional design is the George & Dragon, the 1820 coin pictured being the original version of this.  The 1930 coin is a Wreath crown.  Wreath crowns were minted in very low numbers, aimed at collectors and released near Christmas.  It’s the most valuable of the coins shown here.














Thanks for looking!  Which are your favourites?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My favourite, i.e. the one I'd like to find down the back of the sofa, is a 1933 Penny!!!

I had a fair collection of various early 20th Century coins when I was a kid, but they've disappeared over the years/moves. My nana also collected old pennies, ha'pennies and farthings which my sister and I would play with when we stayed. Every Penny year made from 1904 (I think) right through to 1965 (the year my sister was born). Well, all apart from the 1933 one obviously!  
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why did George IV like dressing as a fat Julius Caesar? They say his dad was bonkers...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good knowledge.  There is a 1933 Penny up for auction in September, I kid you not!  I think 7 or 8 are known, of which 3 or 4 are in private hands...

I'd be impressed if your nana had a 1954 Penny, there are only 1 or 2 known for that year!

A few of the coins pictured above came from my Grandparents and Great Uncles (1945 Farthing, 1943 Threepence, 1887 Shilling, 1937 Crown).  Most of the coins they had kept were somewhat heavily circulated specimens with no value other than sentimental/silver bullion and I've given most of them away sinceI rekindled my interest quite recently and started 'upgrading'.

Hope you find some of your old coins and/or your nana's,  Some of the pennies might be rare, and there are lots of small design 'varieties' (particularly on 1860-1893 Victorian bronze pennies) that serious collectors love trying to find and will pay a lot of money for.


Last edited by Stuntman on Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

simonp wrote:
Why did George IV like dressing as a fat Julius Caesar? They say his dad was bonkers...


Most male monarchs' portraits were 'Laureate Heads' until midway through George IV's reign (from about 1824 depending on the coin).  He apparently hated the 'fat Julius Caesar' look and demanded that the coins were redesigned.  Given that his was a short reign (1820-1830) there are lots of different designs of coins to collect.  There are 3 different shillings and 3 different halfcrowns, for example.

In an ideal world I'd have some nice old Guineas and Sovereigns too!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a given sum of money, the tradeoff is between having a common coin in higher grade or a rarer coin in lower grade.  I've tended to choose the former option because I partly view them as being mini works of art, and I tend to choose ones with (subjective) 'eye appeal' wherever possible.  

Occasionally I'll buy a rarer one if I think it's well-priced, the 1905 Shilling and 1829 Halfcrowns being prime examples.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuntman wrote:
Good knowledge.  There is a 1933 Penny up for auction in September, I kid you not!  I think 7 or 8 are known, of which 3 or 4 are in private hands...

I'd be impressed if your nana had a 1954 Penny, there are only 1 or 2 known for that year!

<snip>

Hope you find some of your old coins and/or your nana's,  Some of the pennies might be rare, and there are lots of small design 'varieties' (particularly on 1860-1893 Victorian bronze pennies) that serious collectors love trying to find and will pay a lot of money for.


I guess there wasn't a 1954 example either then!

Sadly, I think the "penny bag" which, bizarrely, was actually on old bus conductors' pouch, was long gone when we emptied my grand-parents house after my nana had died. Apart form the pennies and ha'pennies, there were a goodly number of threepenny bits, some farthings as I said, and both my sister and I have Churchill crowns somewhere; I'm fairly sure I still have that, but exactly where is anyone's guess.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting stuff.  I'm glad you're enjoying collecting.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting Stunts and a very nice collection.

I have quite a large coin collection and I've been meaning to photograph them but haven't got around to it yet. I also have some stamps and cigarette cards inherited from my dad and of course his campaign medals.

Photographing coins is a whole specialist area and there's a lot to it but if and when I get around to it I'll just be pointing the camera and pressing the button.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Alan.  My photography skills are very limited and the photos shown are just taken with a mobile phone on its macro setting and a steady(ish) hand.  I use a desk lamp to throw light at an angle onto the coin, the background is just a manila envelope.  I haven't edited the images beyond just cropping them quite tightly.

I'm sure you can do a whole lot better.  Do post some photos of your coins, I'd be interested to see what you have.  Are you still collecting?  I've just treated myself to two new ones, which will arrive next week.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are my two new acquisitions.  Arrived yesterday.

1852 Gothic Florin of Queen Victoria.  This is a beautiful design in my opinion, quite scarce at just over 1 million minted and in better grade than my 1872 coin pictured earlier.  Being an earlier coin it has 'brit' rather than 'britt' in the legend on the obverse.  This gave me a legitimate reason to add it to the collection.  Coin man maths is like car man maths...




1837 copper Halfpenny of William IV.  This coin is quite rare with just under 350,000 minted.  I think this particular one is quite nice, it has a good tone and is quite a decent grade without being too expensive.  The date on this coin is interesting, there is a small 7 struck over a larger 7, and it also looks as if the 8 and 3 might be struck over another 8 and another 3.  This was apparently quite common for that year.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of the 2 above looks to be in excellent condition.
Second one: Loving the "Britanniar" as opposed to "Britannia"; is the extra "R" unusual ?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Chris - yes, the Gothic Florin was grade Extremely Fine (EF) by the seller and I would agree.  Coin grading is subjective and an art rather than a science.  The grading goes downwards from Uncirculated, and then Extremely Fine, Very Fine, Fine, Fair and Poor.  There are intermediate grades too, so you will see for example coins graded Fine, Good Fine, Nearly Very Fine, About Very Fine, and then Very Fine.  The coins shown in the pictures range from less than Fine (the 1905 shilling is probably NF) all the way up to BU (Brilliant Uncirculated, usually applied to a coin that has full mint lustre and has effectively come straight out of a mint bag).  The 1837 Halfpenny was graded NEF (Nearly Extremely Fine) by the seller, which may be slightly generous if you were being harsh, but it's a nice coin and I was happy to pay the price he offered in response to my haggling.  

Regarding Britanniar - that was just how it appeared on halfpennies and some other coins of that era (see the 1826 and 1855 halfpennies in my first post, for instance).  Some of the silver coins have Britanniarum on the legend too, so there has been no real consistency!  On the Hanoverian Early Milled Shillings from the 18th century there is a lot of abbreviation because as well as being Kings of Great Britain and Ireland, the Georgian Kings were also Dukes of Brunswick and Luneburg and Electors of Hanover and suchlike!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting especially as in the next few weeks we have to locate my dad's old coin collection when the old house is sold (exchange of contracts is pending).  I don't think there is much/anything of value, just a load of old pre-decimal stuff but we've not seen it for a good few years and dad's memory is failing, plus his disability means that he can't get into the old house to look for the coins........ just hope he can remember roughly where they are.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:


Second one: Loving the "Britanniar" as opposed to "Britannia"; is the extra "R" unusual ?


I think it's used on the sportier coins Chris.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite a collection! I didn't really know anything about old coins and now I have a reference guide right here!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:


Second one: Loving the "Britanniar" as opposed to "Britannia"; is the extra "R" unusual ?


I think it's used on the sportier coins Chris.

Which would be more sporting?
BritanniaR
BritanniaS
BritanniaT
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:


Second one: Loving the "Britanniar" as opposed to "Britannia"; is the extra "R" unusual ?


I think it's used on the sportier coins Chris.




Occasionally a coin is issued with BritanniaRS, but there is then an unseemly scramble to get one, often involving letters of intent being sent to the Royal Mint.  On release, a high proportion of these coins are immediately resold for much higher prices, and/or just kept in a cabinet rather than being given a damn good spending.  

Chris, post or PM me when you find your Dad's collection - I'd be very happy to give you a rough idea of rarity, value and desirability!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuntman wrote:

Chris, post or PM me when you find your Dad's collection - I'd be very happy to give you a rough idea of rarity, value and desirability!

Thank you for that kind offer.
Interesting to note that as I write this, your post count is "all the 7's", 7777
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boxer6 wrote:
My favourite, i.e. the one I'd like to find down the back of the sofa, is a 1933 Penny!!!


Bidding is now live on the coin that's up for auction in the US.  Auction concludes on 11th August.  At the time of posting, the bid is $95k (so it would cost $111.625k after including the buyer's premium).  Some of the penny collectors on the coin forum I visit reckon it will go for well over $200k.  It's the first 1933 penny to be offered on the open market for over 25 years...

http://coins.ha.com/itm/great-bri...?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Heady stuff for an old bronze penny!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. One of W2.0's uncles is a coin collector and was among me about sourcing some English coins.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me know what sort of stuff he collects and I can point you in the direction of some reputable dealers.  I tend to buy from three or four on a fairly regular basis, and then pick up the odd coin elsewhere if I think it's well priced.

eBay has plenty for sale of course, but the prices are often more that you will pay from a dealer through their own website.  There are indeed bargains to be had out there though, although the few times I've bid I have yet to win!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuntman wrote:
Boxer6 wrote:
My favourite, i.e. the one I'd like to find down the back of the sofa, is a 1933 Penny!!!


Bidding is now live on the coin that's up for auction in the US.  Auction concludes on 11th August.  At the time of posting, the bid is $95k (so it would cost $111.625k after including the buyer's premium).  Some of the penny collectors on the coin forum I visit reckon it will go for well over $200k.  It's the first 1933 penny to be offered on the open market for over 25 years...

http://coins.ha.com/itm/great-bri...?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Heady stuff for an old bronze penny!


If only my nana had looked a bit harder!    
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double post?

Posted on a PC to, not a phone!    


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