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Skyhook
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 Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:22 pm Post subject: ISO-fix; worth it? |
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We have the car seat, but as yet haven't bothered with the expense of an ISO-fix base.
Obviously we don't want to skimp on safety for the baby on the way, but we were wondering - are the benefits of ISO-fix that great?
Am I right in thinking you still need to use the seat belt, but do get a 'bar' that goes to the floor of the car to stop the seat tilting backwards?
Any thoughts welcome.
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Blarno
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't consider Isofix, because I didn't know the Clio had Isofix. I was under the impression that the belt isn't needed because the seat mounts directly into the chassis.
The other factor was the price! Isofix stuff is way more expensive. Our first car seat came as part of a package with the stroller, so we've only had to buy one outright when Phoebe was 5 months old and that was 85 quid.
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"him"
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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We never used ISOFIX seats when they were in rear facing seats, (the Sxo had no fittings) but once old enough to use forward facing seats (and the Corsa had ISOFIX) then we did. The seats are much more securely mounted, and now they are 8 and 5 and in booster seats like this:-
They are much happier as the seat doesn't tilt when the car goes round corners...
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Skyhook
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Blarno wrote: | I didn't consider Isofix, because I didn't know the Clio had Isofix. I was under the impression that the belt isn't needed because the seat mounts directly into the chassis.
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As I understand it, the ISOfix base clips to the car at the join between the car's seat and back, so the child seat can still pivot towards the rear of the car in an accident if the belt isn't used to hold the assembly down.
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Martin
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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Isofix is good, but it really needs the top tether to hold it properly secure and stop the top pivoting forwards in an accident. I don't think I would bother with the extra expense of one without that top tether. It's a standard thing in the US and I looked at a car recently that had a bracket on the parcel shelf but I can't remember what it was.
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SpecB
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Martin wrote: | | Isofix is good, but it really needs the top tether to hold it properly secure and stop the top pivoting forwards in an accident. I don't think I would bother with the extra expense of one without that top tether. It's a standard thing in the US and I looked at a car recently that had a bracket on the parcel shelf but I can't remember what it was. |
My car has two little covers in the boot headlining which I assume is for the Isofix top tether thing. There are even holes in the dog guard to pass the strap through should you need both. Won't ever be getting used though.
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Frank Bullitt
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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We have the Maxi-Cosi Cabrio-Fix with the Isofix base fitted.
The base is indeed connected to the chassis by the two points at the rear of the seat and then has the leg that goes into the footwell
| Skyhook wrote: | | As I understand it, the ISOfix base clips to the car at the join between the car's seat and back, so the child seat can still pivot towards the rear of the car in an accident if the belt isn't used to hold the assembly down. |
Not quite sure what your describing here but:
In a frontal impact the fooching great leg holds the whole ensemble secure; this is sited under compression into the footwell.
As for a rear-ender, the cabrio-fix actually pushes against the seatback when it's in position; trust me, it 'aint 'twisting' for anything. There is no need to use the belt at all as this would offer no benefit in either accident. The base is also incredibly heavy!
Essentially the whole lot is pinned between the child seat pushing against the car seat-back and the isofix leg fitted under compression; tethers would make no difference in either instance from what I can see.
The benefits are that you put the seat in, 'click', check the indicators and job done, the same for removing it (there is a grey handle at the front that needs to be pulled at the same time as the seat is lifted). Having watched numerous relatives and friends sweat and swear there way around fitting the rear seat each and every time they go out, we wouldn't be without it. Even with belts done ultra tight it never feels that secure (particularly sideways).
A big vote for Isofix here.
One thing to check is that it actually pushes the child seat forward by a few inches compared to how you would have otherwise used the car seat; if space is tight in the Pandabitch (TM) for your passenger (Mrs S one assumes?) it's worth checking that everything still fits.
Here is a piccie of Johan and his ensemble:
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Martin
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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The top tether obviously wouldn't be of any use on a baby seat with a base (and supporting leg), I was talking about a forward facing car seat.
Put the passenger seat back a notch instead, the back of the car seat being rammed against the seatback should hold it solid. It worked for me when I had a Bora!!
We had a rear facing seat with a base, but it wasn't Isofix. It did fit very securely though and not having to mess around with a seat belt every time we lifted it in and out was a huge bonus.
That's not a Kiddicare branded sunblind I see is it? At least it's not some horrendous brightly coloured thing, so it could be worse!
That's why 'pimped' windows are a good thing, they remove the need to stick things on the windows. Unfortunately I don't have a car with pimped windows any more...... Still not going to resort to sticking something on the window, but I do appreciate it's different with babies.
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Skyhook
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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We have the same seat! Thank you for the reply.
| Frank Bullitt wrote: |
In a frontal impact the fooching great leg holds the whole ensemble secure; this is sited under compression into the footwell. |
When you say compression, how is it compressed? By the weight of the base or does pre-compression come from a clamp I've not spotted?
I'm thinking more of a rear ender, where you are thrown forwards then backwards. Frank, you say the cabrio-fix presses against the car seat back and prevents this, I see what you mean, so I don't mean to doubt you but as a nerdy Engineer I didn't feel that confident in the Mothercare car park without the seatbelt in place.
Though neither did I feel confident with the seatbelt alone.
Gawd...funny how you'll take risks yourself but as soon as you are a Dad you question everything...
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Frank Bullitt
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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One thing which didn't make sense when I thought about it was how the child seat would hold against the back because it would be a squeeze to put the seat in each time. It's actually the rear of the base (about 230mm tall) that holds against the seatback of the car to stop 'twisting'.
| Martin wrote: | | That's not a Kiddicare branded sunblind I see is it? |
Indeed, they were in the Maxi Cosi box so I've put them up; I need to order some proper-made ones for the A2 - only £80 (both windows on each side at the rear and the back window too). Kiddicare are not too far from us and cheaper than anywhere else for miles when it comes to this sort of stuff.
| Martin wrote: | | We had a rear facing seat with a base, but it wasn't Isofix. It did fit very securely though and not having to mess around with a seat belt every time we lifted it in and out was a huge bonus. |
You can get the easy base (which is for belts only) for about £80 and the Isofix base which works either with belts or isofix mountings for about £105; I probably would have gone for the easy base had we not had Isofix in the car.
I'll try and take some better piccies tomorrow to show how it all works; personally, I think it's a no-brainer but there you go.
With regard to forward facing seats I would have thought the L-shape of the car seat base and back, fixed via the Isofix, would keep the whole-lot from moving around in an accident? Maxi Cosi charge a fortune for forward facing (£250 from memory) where as the Brittax one is half the price.
| Skyhook wrote: | | When you say compression, how is it compressed? By the weight of the base or does pre-compression come from a clamp I've not spotted? |
It's essentially the weight of the thing (must be 10kg at least, it feels like it's made from lead!), along with the seat and baby; in an impact it would only 'compress' further. You fit it by rotating the leg down, putting the base into the isofix mountings and then extending the leg until it is pushing against the floor, lifting the front of the base as little as possible; from now on the seat and baby just add more weight to compress it; in a forward accident the weight would try to pivot around the isofix mountings, forcing the front downwards; it 'aint moving for shit!
In a rearward extreme accident the base would 'trap' against the cars rear seatback (as may the child seat if the base managed to rotate slightly). I can't see how a seatbelt would do a better job.
The seat is brilliant, easy to use and not at all heavy. Even has a nice little drawer in it for shit-knows what but you use this to put the shoulder-straps higher; Johan needed them at full-height as soon as we took him home; he takes after no stranger!
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Last edited by Frank Bullitt on Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Skyhook
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Frank Bullitt wrote: | | One thing which didn't make sense when I thought about it was how the child seat would hold against the back because it would be a squeeze to put the seat in each time. It's actually the rear of the base (about 230mm tall) that holds against the seatback of the car to stop 'twisting'. |
That's what worries me, I think. 230mm against the mass and momentum of the baby and seat in an impact, the lever of the forces incolved. The mechanical advantage doesn't seem to be with the 230mm.
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Frank Bullitt
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Without trying to remember too much Physics A-level, most of a rear impacts force is going to be pretty much horizontally forwards; Isofix mountings deal with this 100%. Exceptions? Rear-ended by a 300mph skate board at ground level or a 40-ton truck much higher (well, flat to be acurate); the former has little chance of reality, the latter will require substantially more than Isofix, Seatbelts, Pandabitch (TM), any car, most SUV's...
The 'twist' comes from a dissipation of energy because the seat is loose but it just wouldn't happen in 99.99999% of cases.
What is going to 'lift' the seat, Isofix base and baby from the horizontal?
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Gooner
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Ford didn't even put ISOfix points on my Focus, apparently they are a factory option. Personally though I'm happy to use the seatbelts to restrain our child seats. Millions of parents have done so for decades without problem so I'm sure we'll be fine.
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"him"
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Gooner wrote: | | Ford didn't even put ISOfix points on my Focus, apparently they are a factory option. Personally though I'm happy to use the seatbelts to restrain our child seats. Millions of parents have done so for decades without problem so I'm sure we'll be fine. |
Fords used to have to be ordered with ISOFIX, it was a no-cost option, but the chances of finding it on a used car were pretty remote... 
Renault even fit them in the front passenger seat!
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Frank Bullitt
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| Gooner wrote: | | Millions of parents have done so for decades without problem so I'm sure we'll be fine. |
...and before that they sat them in a carry-cot on the rear seat unbelted, but that's not a reason to go back to those days. Or, we could just take them into a smokey room and hope for the best 
Here are the promised piccies
The Isofx 'legs' go quite far under the seat back; not just the squish bit but the structural element too, so 'swinging' upwards is not much of an option as it will be held down by the seat and the 'leg' which goes beyond the isofix mounting and therefore in such an impact the back would swing down into the fitting on the chassis. You can see the cars isofix bar (just) and also see the leg goes beyond that, probably by 60mm or-so
A bit of a hint here - Fiat might suggest you need guiding points that they'll sell you; these aren't required and come as part of the base-kit. You can see how the top of the base is pushed against the seat back over quite a decent height; I started to get violent with the Isofix base and it would swing the front up about 5-7 degrees before the structural bit of the back seat and base of the isofix mounting just stopped play; in other words, about the same amount of 'slack' on the intertia-reel of the seatbelt you'd otherwise use.
The front - the leg has to be 'clicked' to the right length (an indicator tells you it is) and there is an indicator on the front of the base to tell you both isofix mountings are properly connected at the rear. With the seat on in the right place the red indictor on the side turns to green; job done...
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Martin
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:45 am Post subject: |
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That does look excellent, very secure. It wasn't an option almost 8 years ago and we used the same seat for our second rather than buying a new one.
Like Johan, both my boys are above average size and grow like weeds, so they didn't stay in the same seat for very long!! My eldest has been on a Booster for about a year (he's 7 1/2) and my youngest has been on a stage 3 for about 6 months (he's 3 1/2), both outgrew their seats pretty quickly!
To give you an idea of how big he is, my eldest is wearing age 9-10 clothes and has size 3 feet!!
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Rodge
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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We didn't use Isofix for the first seats, and had Maxi Cosi seats like Johan's in the picture above.
If you want to get it, go to a good baby shop that sells seats and they will let you try out different seats in your car to see what is the best fit. They'll also give you good advice on them too.
The stage 2 seats we have now for the twins are held in with the seat belts as I'd have to change the car to fit Isofix- they are too wide to fit 3 seats across the back.
I have Isofix in my car and use the belt that came with the twin's seats to attatch to it when ever I'm carrying them in it.
It's an American system that works well.
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Skyhook
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Frank Bullitt wrote: |
You can see how the top of the base is pushed against the seat back over quite a decent height; I started to get violent with the Isofix base and it would swing the front up about 5-7 degrees before the structural bit of the back seat and base of the isofix mounting just stopped play; in other words, about the same amount of 'slack' on the intertia-reel of the seatbelt you'd otherwise use.
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Cheers for the pics Frank, that was the bit I was worried about, not movement the other way.
Isofix is no better than a seatbelt then? (Just joking)
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