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Council Tax
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JohnC
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:41 am    Post subject: Council Tax  Reply with quote

How much do you pay? We currently pay 2,600 for a house in the top band but it is worth perhaps 350K. When we moved in, the house was in the 2nd top band but because the previous owners had added an extension, it was put up a band after ownership changed.

It isn't going to affect anyone south of the border but the Scottish Government have started their project on social engineering. Announced yesterday, the top band of council tax is going up by approximately 600 when you include the 3% annual increase which puts me in exactly the same position as those in the 1m houses just up the road. Basically anything with 3 bedrooms in our area is in the top band, so every family house.

The Scottish Government also froze the level at which people pay higher rate tax at 43,000 instead of increasing it as in England and Wales to 50,000, meaning that someone in Scotland with a 300K house earning 50K a year will be 600 worse off than they were and 2K worse off than a colleague in England. This is the thin edge of the wedge and due to the failure to increase the higher rate tax band in line with earnings and inflation, it is now targeting far too many people you would consider to be in the middle earner bracket! Had the higher rate tax band been increased in line with inflation, it would now be somewhere in excess of 75,000.

I remember when I started work that I aspired to be a higher rate taxpayer but that bubble is now well and truly burst.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ours is 2,300 a year and is in Band F, which according to the Nationwide Calculator is correct, as that covers houses in our area with a current value of just under 500k
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1486 pa Band C, house is 2 bed and worth approx 280,000.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We pay 1350 a year for a house in Band D which we had valued last night (here we go again...) at just over 300k, it seems perfectly reasonable to me.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Band B for me which equates to 101/month after the single occupancy discount.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
Ours is 2,300 a year and is in Band F, which according to the Nationwide Calculator is correct, as that covers houses in our area with a current value of just under 500k
.

That's interesting. Ours is 1840, which is Band E though I'd reckon our house is worth presently 450-475K. We have had a loft conversion which is under their radar (no idea how they pick these things up but it's not massively obvious and Google Street view doesn't pick up house fully).

That said, if our house was in Band F, which for our area has got to be 500K plus properties it's only 2174.

Our 2 bed flat in Northampton is worth say 125K and is Band C and that's 1400 per year which seems massively unfair.

Therefore I'd say that in theory we need to lower the cost for smaller properties and raise it for large.

This would have the benefit of encouraging those occupying large homes but with less residents to downsize and perhaps help with the house price issues and housing problems.

The problem though is politics and demographics. Too many elderly people carry on living in large homes on their own but they are a key Conservative voter demographic so the likelihood of council tax rising on large homes is limited.

In Canada my brother pays a massive % of his property value as rates/council tax and they all seem to accept that it's a fair system.

Until elderly care is moved out of council budgets they need every penny they can get.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're band F as well which is at 2197, the last agent we had around reckons the house is worth just over 500k.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

About 1,800.  Seems like a bargain compared with some of the figures mentioned thus far.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our last house was band C but this one, being new and so worth more despite being similar size is band D. I think it's about 1600/yr.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Band B for me which equates to 101/month after the single occupancy discount.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our last house was band D.  This one is band F and I am paying about 2,400 per annum.  I'm not sure how much the house is worth - probably 400-450k, but it is certainly worth a good deal more than we paid for it.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Band G = 2607 I think.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Band E and I think its around 2,100 PA. Its value has risen to around 650k but is only about 1300sq ft.

I assume its not worked out on the house price but the sq ft?

We're about to carry out a large extension, around 750sq ft, so would my property then get re-banded after completion of works?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 2 bed I am selling is in band B and I was paying just under 90 per month with the single person discount. Where I am now the monthly payment is about 140 (with no SPD). It's a 3 bed and is in band C. The house value is around the 175k mark.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
We're about to carry out a large extension, around 750sq ft, so would my property then get re-banded after completion of works?


A house on which work has been carried out which requires a building warrant or planning permission will get re-banded after it is sold - you get to enjoy the current banding and the new buyer gets a sharp shock some time later!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
Band E and I think its around 2,100 PA. Its value has risen to around 650k but is only about 1300sq ft.

I assume its not worked out on the house price but the sq ft?

We're about to carry out a large extension, around 750sq ft, so would my property then get re-banded after completion of works?


The council tax band is worked out on its value in 1991 for Scotland and England.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnC wrote:
Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
We're about to carry out a large extension, around 750sq ft, so would my property then get re-banded after completion of works?


A house on which work has been carried out which requires a building warrant or planning permission will get re-banded after it is sold - you get to enjoy the current banding and the new buyer gets a sharp shock some time later!


BOOM!

They're a funny bunch the government when it come to tax take. Odd that there's this untapped source of additional income. I'm not looking to move for the next 20 years hopefully and therefore the council are missing out on potentially 20k from me alone in that time.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Band F. Went up as previous extensions were assessed when we moved in. It's 215 per month over 10 months so 2150. It's assessed sale value is ridiculous considering it's just a normal family home in a dormitory suburb. Not that I'm complaining.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
Ours is 2,300 a year and is in Band F, which according to the Nationwide Calculator is correct, as that covers houses in our area with a current value of just under 500k


About the same as this, but our house is "worth" nearer 400K than 500...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No idea what band I'm in, ours is about 90 a month on a house worth 115k.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the looks of this, Durham is expensive for council tax.  
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess its due to the number of properties in the area. We're cheaper down here because the density for housing.

Anyone who lives in London, I understand pay very little and the services they receive are second to none.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1200 ish for a 3 bedroom semi-detached in a nice location with sea views.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Band B , can't remember how much it is -100 odd quid a month I think

House is a 3 bed semi worth about 170
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1600 on a band D worth around 350.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TreVoR wrote:
From the looks of this, Durham is expensive for council tax.


From the OP I'd suggest our Scots friends are being poked up the arse with a large spike.

Yes if you look at the density of housing where I live then work out the average band D tax there's a lot of money there to collect our bins. I have to pay extra for the garden bins (we have a fair sized garden and two of the things is barely enough sometimes). In fairness we do have well swept streets, manicured verges, husbanded trees, an inordinate number of parks and recreational spaces so my joke about the bins is pretty unfounded. It's a great place to live and raise kids if I'm honest: close enough to London for it to not be an event to go there (my oldest daughter goes to language school in Fitzrovia every Saturday); green enough to enjoy playing outside; schools are good and if they're clever there's still grammars in our borough and of course (as seen in another thread) not too distant from LGW or LHR.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Blue wrote:
TreVoR wrote:
From the looks of this, Durham is expensive for council tax.


From the OP I'd suggest our Scots friends are being poked up the arse with a large spike.

Yes if you look at the density of housing where I live then work out the average band D tax there's a lot of money there to collect our bins. I have to pay extra for the garden bins (we have a fair sized garden and two of the things is barely enough sometimes). In fairness we do have well swept streets, manicured verges, husbanded trees, an inordinate number of parks and recreational spaces so my joke about the bins is pretty unfounded. It's a great place to live and raise kids if I'm honest: close enough to London for it to not be an event to go there (my oldest daughter goes to language school in Fitzrovia every Saturday); green enough to enjoy playing outside; schools are good and if they're clever there's still grammars in our borough and of course (as seen in another thread) not too distant from LGW or LHR.


The top band in Durham pays 3.3k per annum. John C pays 200 more than me for two bands higher!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We pay 1960 a year, I think it's Band D, Newcastle suburb on a property valued 375k.

We moved in 11 years ago and I think the tax was about 1750 then, so it's not really gone up much over the years. The way councils are funded has changed and Newcastle has been hit disproportionately hard compared to down south and it's really starting to show now in the street cleaning and general upkeep of green spaces.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Band E, about 440,000 and we pay 2,036.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was considering the size of the bill vs the value of the asset.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're paying just over 2400 a year for a property worth approx. 235k.

Our roads are shit, not sure what the money's getting spent on.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Blue wrote:
I was considering the size of the bill vs the value of the asset.


Ah.  If you look at it that way, it is expensive.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grampa wrote:
1200 ish for a 3 bedroom semi-detached in a nice location with sea views.


I'm not sure on the premium on Sea views? Not a problem where I live but might be worth erecting a massive fence in front of your house before the council come round re-banding to ensure you're not taxed on them.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Currently Band D - 1537 per year

If we sold it would be rebanded at E due to our extension

Current value around 750,000
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best value so far.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roadrunner wrote:
Band E, about 440,000 and we pay 2,036.

Very similar in Surrey Heath, band E, recently valued at around 460,000 (we paid around 105k 20 years ago) and 2075 council tax
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bought ours in 2012 for about 750,000c$, tax was 4200c$ a year, the agency that values houses sent me a questionaire asking what our plans for the house were (basically a fishing trip, to see if they could charge us more tax), I ignored it, so they gave us an inflationary raise anyway. Fast forward to this year, the tax is now 5300c$ the house is now worth 1.2m, but our salaries has not gone up by commensurate amounts, so not sure how this is sustainable.

I dread to think how people on fixed incomes can cope.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

canadian bacon wrote:
I dread to think how people on fixed incomes can cope.

You get into more and more debt each year (and/or cut your standard of living to the bone, eg no holidays, cheap brands of food and clothing) until you are fortunate enough to win or inherit some money.  It's grim and I dread to think how the really poor manage.  Politicians are just so far out of touch with reality that it's untrue.

I've kept a list somewhere of how much our council tax has increased over the past 20 years (same house) and when I next dig it out I'll try to remember to post the info here. Basically almosy every year it has risen far greater than the rate of inflation, and far greater than any annual wage rise that I've had - there have been many years when I got no rise yet all the bills went up.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

canadian bacon wrote:

I dread to think how people on fixed incomes can cope.


When you consider that the State Pension is going to be c150/week, it would appear that most pensioners will be expected to build a cardboard house in a field somewhere.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's the family home you raised your kids in because the schools and your commute were good you downsize and let the next generation of taxpayers move in.

As Chris said: most of us on here have no idea how the poor manage. Sone of the poor where my ma lives make homes cut into the rocks. That's in France, a first world country (allegedly).
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Blue wrote:
If it's the family home you raised your kids in because the schools and your commute were good you downsize and let the next generation of taxpayers move in.


This.

Things change, if you aren't smart enough (or more likely are too reluctant to accept your changing circumstances and are too busy clinging onto memories) then you'll end up poorer for hanging on to a big house.

We've pondered a bigger house for a while, but with two kids leaving within 3 yrs the idea of buying something bigger seems daft, we'd end up rattling round a larger house with the unused bedrooms and extra en-suites, spend more time dusting empty rooms and then have more maintenance and council tax bills for something that's 50% utilised.

That would be madness surely?

My Parents in Law and Mother are both looking to downsize (Parents in law done it once already to clear mortgage 15 yrs ago) in the next 2 yrs.

I've seen other friends parents cling onto their home to the point they were unable to move then suddenly the bills really rack up as they needed live in carers etc.

EDIT - downsizing also usually releases cash to help with living costs. Frankly if you live in a house you can't afford to keep and it's too big for you then you are a fool.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manchester actually bury council ...just under 4K/year

Cotswolds 2600 .  Both houses same value and bury only empty bins once every 3 weeks.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree that you shouldn't live in a house you can't afford, but downsizing isn't always the right answer.  My parents still live in the house they had built nearly 30 years ago and rattle around in it a bit, but they love being able to accommodate their children and all the grand children, even if it is only for a few nights a year.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea of older generations downsizing and passing family homes on to younger families is all very well but often the cost to move outweighs any benefit. E.g. My parents live alone in a four bed house but having looked at three beds that have comparable or, ideally, better living space, there's not a lot of difference so once legal fees and stamp duty are factored in it'll cost them more than they can afford. Likewise my wife's grandmother who is now widowed and lives alone in a three bed house. She could now do with having a bungalow but such is the demand that even 2 bed bungalows cost more than her 3 bed house, so she's stuck. Extrapolate this sort of situation across the country and you can see why so many young families end up squeezing into smaller properties whilst empty nesters rattle around large 3 or 4 bed houses they can barely afford to heat!
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Bob Sacamano
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooner wrote:
The idea of older generations downsizing and passing family homes on to younger families is all very well but often the cost to move outweighs any benefit. E.g. My parents live alone in a four bed house but having looked at three beds that have comparable or, ideally, better living space, there's not a lot of difference so once legal fees and stamp duty are factored in it'll cost them more than they can afford. Likewise my wife's grandmother who is now widowed and lives alone in a three bed house. She could now do with having a bungalow but such is the demand that even 2 bed bungalows cost more than her 3 bed house, so she's stuck. Extrapolate this sort of situation across the country and you can see why so many young families end up squeezing into smaller properties whilst empty nesters rattle around large 3 or 4 bed houses they can barely afford to heat!


My mother is a widow and still lives in the large 4 bedroom family home we moved into in 1976. She has a downstairs bathroom and enough room to make her second lounge a bedroom so she planned on living solely downstairs and renting the upstairs to Kosovans. Of course Brexit has scuppered that plan.
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gonnabuildabuggy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
Agree that you shouldn't live in a house you can't afford, but downsizing isn't always the right answer. My parents still live in the house they had built nearly 30 years ago and rattle around in it a bit, but they love being able to accommodate their children and all the grand children, even if it is only for a few nights a year.


As long as they can afford it then it's their prerogative what they do, but it's those that say they can't I have an issue with.

Oddly enough it's why I don't own a Ferrari. I could afford to buy one but the running costs are beyond my means.  And I sold the 93 Cab when it was just a driveway ornament costing me depreciation and not getting used. The wife encouraged me to keep it but having something sitting on the drive unused and depreciating seemed mad when we were tightening our belts.

The cost of moving is an issue so downsizing needs to be planned e.g. 4 bed house to 2 bed flat? Rather than one step at a time.
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Bob Sacamano
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Downsizing is an issue for us - but it's finding somewhere that has a good amount of downstairs living space, which we want, without extra bedrooms that we don't want or need.
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Giant
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Downsizing is only an option for those in larger houses to start with. Those nearer the bottom of the ladder have less option to do so and as gooner says, the cost to change is greater than the savings.
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gooner
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giant wrote:
Downsizing is only an option for those in larger houses to start with. Those nearer the bottom of the ladder have less option to do so and as gooner says, the cost to change is greater than the savings.


Well indeed, and as Bob's highlighted, it's easy to find houses with less rooms but if you want more living space it'll cost you much more than your house with more bedrooms but less usable space is worth.

I'll also add that for my grandmother in law she'd also have to sort out 40 years worth of stuff in her late husbands woodworking shed and gardening sheds and that's before even thinking about the attic! She just doesn't have the energy any more to cope with that even if we were to help.
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gonnabuildabuggy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooner wrote:
I'll also add that for my grandmother in law she'd also have to sort out 40 years worth of stuff in her late husbands woodworking shed and gardening sheds and that's before even thinking about the attic! She just doesn't have the energy any more to cope with that even if we were to help.


What's the plan for the future then? Or sit tight and hope she doesn't get frail?

All that stuff will need sorting at some point.........


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