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440i Gran Coupe
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JohnC
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:16 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Bit late to this since I am just back from a few days in Harrogate/York area.

The adaptive Xenon's are great. I do a fair bit of winter driving on A and B roads and the lights always get back on to full beam ASAP. When you are following a car, the light splits either side and really lights up the road without blinding the other driver. It is a bit odd though because there is a shadowed area around the car in front which looks like a black box - weird until you get used to it.
Martin's adaptive LED's are the next generation and effectively make my mechanical ones seem old hat but I wouldn't order a car without them now whichever was available.

The 4 series is a car that can cover the ground very quickly but when you really hassle it, things get a bit untidy, regardless of which setting I have my suspension in (I have the adaptive suspension). I like the extra compliance I get in day to day driving from the comfort setting although the Sport setting firms things up a bit, I think it doesn't do as good a job on a twisty A or B road as the comfort setting which allows a bit more horizontal movement of the suspension. It's not a sports car in the way it feels but at the same time only a sports car could keep up with the speed at which it can cover the ground. On smoother continental roads the Sports setting would probably work a good bit better in the twisty bits.

I think it makes a great family car.

I'd also have to have the comfort access and the storage pack but on a PCP I can fully appreciate the dismay which might ensue from a higher monthly payment for little/no perceived benefit depending on your view or use of these things.
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Bob Sacamano
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I have these 3 settings on the button to the right of my gearlever - Eco Pro - Normal - Sport. What, is anything, does it do to the ride?
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JohnC
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
So I have these 3 settings on the button to the right of my gearlever - Eco Pro - Normal - Sport. What, is anything, does it do to the ride?


Nothing unless you have the adaptive suspension. EcoPro just dampens the throttle and does everything to use less fuel. Normal is just that and Sport sharpens up throttle response, keeps the car in a lower gear more of the time and changes the steering feel a bit.

Adaptive suspension gives different suspension settings in conjunction with the above.
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PG
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Racing Teatray wrote:
The RS3 engine noise makes you giggle. The 440i doesn't.


Can you fit a sports exhaust to the 440i? That make it sound more interesting.

I think the 4GC frameless doors are a lovely touch by BMW. They really let you know that you're not getting in and out of a 3 series hatchback.
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Racing Teatray
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you can. Along with a dealer-fit BMW power kit that bumps output to 360bhp.
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Big Blue
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Racing Teatray wrote:
Yes, you can. Along with a dealer-fit BMW power kit that bumps output to 360bhp.


You've not looked into this at all, have you?


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Racing Teatray
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perish the thought!

In other developments, Mrs RT is going to the dealership tomorrow to take a look for herself as it is after all just 5 minutes from her office.

She will either come back and say yes let's go for it or tell me that I am out of my mind...
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Big Blue
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a possibility she'll do both
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Racing Teatray wrote:
Ha, no. Proper individual paint is around £2k, and that's a little dear given that Carbon Black is free. So I think CB it will be, although Mrs RT quite likes Mineral Grey.

Carbon Black is free? Not even the usual 500 quid for anything other than flat white? End of discussion then, it's my favourite BMW colour.
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Racing Teatray
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes metallic paint is free on the 440i GC which is a remarkably well-equipped car by BMW's normal standards, and one of the choices is Carbon Black (only available on MSport versions of the GC - not available on the coupe or convertible).
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Andy C
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanzanite blue is hands down my favourite colour , but then I do like mineral grey and glacier silver too

How much is that power upgrade?
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Martin
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy C wrote:
Tanzanite blue is hands down my favourite colour , but then I do like mineral grey and glacier silver too


+1

There was a Tanzanite Blue M3, with competition pack and full silverstone leather at the BMW dealer on Monday and it looked fantastic.  I'd even live with the wheels the rest looked so good.
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JohnC
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This one has been around for a while and I will admit I keep going back to have a look!

http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/M/3.0-s...673-3497110.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_

However Carbon Black is one of my all time favourites too, so if money needed to change hands to get Tanzanite instead of Carbon, I would be just as happy with Carbon Black.
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Racing Teatray
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oddly my wife isn't mad on Tanzanite (although it would be my pick) and it's not worth £845 extra over CB given it adds precisely zero to the GFV.

I don't go a bundle on silverstone leather or opal white myself. We are likely to go for saddle brown out of the free options. Coral would be nice but we have a black BMW with red seats currently, so a degree of visible change inside is desirable given that otherwise the interiors are not vastly different. Again the upgraded individual leathers add nothing to the GFV and also any individual feature adds considerably to the build time. That wouldn't normally matter much, but I'd like to get it this year to be certain of skipping the price increases (none of the dealers would commit to the current price past year end).
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Martin
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnC wrote:
This one has been around for a while and I will admit I keep going back to have a look!

http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/M/3.0-s...673-3497110.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_

However Carbon Black is one of my all time favourites too, so if money needed to change hands to get Tanzanite instead of Carbon, I would be just as happy with Carbon Black.


That's very nice.
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Tim
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's very nice on the outside but I loathe pale leather.

I'd agree with Racing's colour choice but would stick with the red leather.
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Martin
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's nice to have a contrast inside, but after 5 years of light leather I needed a break / reduction in the need to clean it.  I'm not sure I'd go for an all black interior next time but it depends on the car.  The problem with Saddle Brown is the brown (plastic) lower dashboard.
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JohnC
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the sunroof in an MSport BMW is essential to lift an otherwise black interior but the alternative is the light coloured leather.

I have some leather protector which helps stop dye transfer and I use it on my MIL's car which has cream seats but I don't think I could buy a car with black headlining and seats, without the sunroof.

You can get an M4 with a sunroof but it loses the carbon roof and probably a lot of its resale attractiveness/value.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
The problem with Saddle Brown is the brown (plastic) lower dashboard.


Obviously I bow down to your superior BMW knowledge Martin but the configurator I just lost 20 minutes of my life to let me spec saddle brown without the dash?
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Racing Teatray
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
Martin wrote:
The problem with Saddle Brown is the brown (plastic) lower dashboard.


Obviously I bow down to your superior BMW knowledge Martin but the configurator I just lost 20 minutes of my life to let me spec saddle brown without the dash?


As far as I can tell, the Luxury version of the GC (anyway not available on the 440i) gets the matching lower dash with saddle leather. However, on the MSport version, the only colour where you get the matching lower dash is Coral Red. The rest come with an entirely black dash. The only exception is if you order one of the Individual leather colours with the Individual leather dash, and then you get the top part of the dash in black leather and the lower half in leather of the same colour as the seats.
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Racing Teatray
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnC wrote:
I think the sunroof in an MSport BMW is essential to lift an otherwise black interior but the alternative is the light coloured leather.

You can get an M4 with a sunroof but it loses the carbon roof and probably a lot of its resale attractiveness/value.


Yes, sunroof essential. I found the 4GC I tried gloomy without it.

Cannot for the life of me work out why an M4 with a sunroof and no carbon roof would have a lower resale value than one without the sunroof and with the carbon roof.

I mean, it makes zero difference to my life whether the roof is carbon or not, not least because I don't even find it especially attractive.
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean you can't feel the lower CoG when giving it a dab of oppo round Hyde park Corner?
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Martin
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Racing Teatray wrote:
PhilD wrote:
Martin wrote:
The problem with Saddle Brown is the brown (plastic) lower dashboard.


Obviously I bow down to your superior BMW knowledge Martin but the configurator I just lost 20 minutes of my life to let me spec saddle brown without the dash?


As far as I can tell, the Luxury version of the GC (anyway not available on the 440i) gets the matching lower dash with saddle leather. However, on the MSport version, the only colour where you get the matching lower dash is Coral Red. The rest come with an entirely black dash. The only exception is if you order one of the Individual leather colours with the Individual leather dash, and then you get the top part of the dash in black leather and the lower half in leather of the same colour as the seats.


That's what I must have seen, much better to have an all black dashboard.

I'm not as much of a geek as you all think!  
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JohnC
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Racing Teatray wrote:
Cannot for the life of me work out why an M4 with a sunroof and no carbon roof would have a lower resale value than one without the sunroof and with the carbon roof.

I mean, it makes zero difference to my life whether the roof is carbon or not, not least because I don't even find it especially attractive.


Just going by what I was told by a salesman, that M cars without a carbon roof are very difficult to shift. I agree though, I would rather have the sunroof than a carbon roof.
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:


I'm not as much of a geek as you all think!  


I suspect subterfuge...
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Tim
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My M5 has black leather, carpets, dash and headlining. The only thing that lifts it is the titanium trim on the dash and doors.
However I don't consider it particularly dark, possibly because it has large windows and slim pillars and even with the seat at its lowest setting you're still not peering over the door tops in contrast to so many modern cars.
It has a steel sunroof so there's no light from that unless its open.
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Big Blue
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnC wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:
Cannot for the life of me work out why an M4 with a sunroof and no carbon roof would have a lower resale value than one without the sunroof and with the carbon roof.

I mean, it makes zero difference to my life whether the roof is carbon or not, not least because I don't even find it especially attractive.


Just going by what I was told by a salesman, that M cars without a carbon roof are very difficult to shift. I agree though, I would rather have the sunroof than a carbon roof.


This is because used M3 buyers are deluded and think the car is better / faster-round-the-Nürburgring with a carbon roof and need to say so down the pub.

They also need to laugh at M4 owners.
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Frank Bullitt
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Blue wrote:
JohnC wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:
Cannot for the life of me work out why an M4 with a sunroof and no carbon roof would have a lower resale value than one without the sunroof and with the carbon roof.

I mean, it makes zero difference to my life whether the roof is carbon or not, not least because I don't even find it especially attractive.


Just going by what I was told by a salesman, that M cars without a carbon roof are very difficult to shift. I agree though, I would rather have the sunroof than a carbon roof.


This is because used M3 buyers are deluded and think the car is better / faster-round-the-Nürburgring with a carbon roof and need to say so down the pub.

They also need to laugh at M4 owners.


Just what I was thinking
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Tim
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Blue wrote:

This is because used M3 buyers are deluded and think the car is better / faster-round-the-Nürburgring with a carbon roof and need to say so down the pub.

They also need to laugh at M4 owners.


Isn't that back to front under the new regime with the 4 door (M3) having a steel roof?
I know that was the case for the last gen M3, only the 2 door got the silly roof.
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Martin
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both have a carbon roof and I agree with BB on the reasons behind the different residuals.
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Big Blue
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You lot are slow today. They're laughing at the M4 owners because their car is called M4. As per the other thread I started.
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's the fashion - carbon is the new go faster stripes. No one wold be seen dead with them these days.
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Frank Bullitt
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
It's the fashion - carbon is the new go faster stripes. No one wold be seen dead with them these days.


I'd like to think of it as the modern version of one of those rubber lightning conductors, of no real benefit but it makes you feel better
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Big Blue
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
It's the fashion - carbon is the new go faster stripes. No one wold be seen dead with them these days.


I'm the old fashioned type. I'm having a vinyl roof fitted next spring.
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Racing Teatray wrote:
Yes, sunroof essential. I found the 4GC I tried gloomy without it.

Cannot for the life of me work out why an M4 with a sunroof and no carbon roof would have a lower resale value than one without the sunroof and with the carbon roof.

I mean, it makes zero difference to my life whether the roof is carbon or not, not least because I don't even find it especially attractive.

Wow! That's how preferences and prejudices can vary - I would never pay extra for a sunroof, and if I couldn't have the car without it, that would be a deal breaker. It's up there with tinted side windows ...
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:
Yes, sunroof essential. I found the 4GC I tried gloomy without it.

Cannot for the life of me work out why an M4 with a sunroof and no carbon roof would have a lower resale value than one without the sunroof and with the carbon roof.

I mean, it makes zero difference to my life whether the roof is carbon or not, not least because I don't even find it especially attractive.

Wow! That's how preferences and prejudices can vary - I would never pay extra for a sunroof, and if I couldn't have the car without it, that would be a deal breaker. It's up there with tinted side windows ...


Sunroofs are fantastic, given half a chance I'd always go for one
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carbon Black is indeed lovely, Black Sapphire isn’t a bad colour, but Carbon is that much nicer with the hint of blue. And considering it is a standard colour on the CG, it’s a no-brainer. Mineral Grey looks a bit drab in comparison. Tanzanite Blue would be the ultimate for me, costly though.

You can explain the power and torque difference between the 340/440 and the M140/M240 because the latter are M Performance models, and the former are not. However, the new 540i will get the same power output as the M performance models. I give up….

A few people have done sub-10 second runs to 100 mph in the M240i. Autocar tested the E60 M5 at 9.7 seconds to 100 mph, the M240i does it in 9.8 secs. But the M5 had 507 bhp. It is exceptional performance considering not only the lesser power, but the lesser price. At least with the 1 and Series, this B58 unit really does seem to be the last opportunity to buy a car of this size with 6 cylinders at reasonable-ish prices, with how the next 1-Series is going in a different direction compared to the next 3-Series.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:
Yes, sunroof essential. I found the 4GC I tried gloomy without it.

Cannot for the life of me work out why an M4 with a sunroof and no carbon roof would have a lower resale value than one without the sunroof and with the carbon roof.

I mean, it makes zero difference to my life whether the roof is carbon or not, not least because I don't even find it especially attractive.

Wow! That's how preferences and prejudices can vary - I would never pay extra for a sunroof, and if I couldn't have the car without it, that would be a deal breaker. It's up there with tinted side windows ...


Sunroofs are fantastic, given half a chance I'd always go for one


Multiple sunroofs and glass roofs even better. The lack of them is one of the things that puts me off older cars.
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gonnabuildabuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
Multiple sunroofs and glass roofs even better. The lack of them is one of the things that puts me off older cars.


Agree, though hard to find them on most cars as not the widely spec'd

I'd go for a sunroof over a glass roof I think?

The Merc's twin glass roofs with the front sliding was brilliant, some much so that it was one of my main criteria for the Mini. The Mini really needs the glass as it feels a lot smaller inside without it.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would struggle to buy a car without a sunroof. It is one of the first option boxes I tick, along with a sound system upgrade.
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JohnC
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roadrunner wrote:
I would struggle to buy a car without a sunroof. It is one of the first option boxes I tick, along with a sound system upgrade.


Those two are pretty much at the top of my list too - it's much more classy that everyone gets to hear the music through the open sunroof than through the open window
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 14425


Location: Higham Ferrers

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As soon as I could get a car with aircon (first was a 406 back in 1996), I wasn't interested in a sunroof at all, there were plenty of other options I wanted a lot more.  It was different with the 535d as I wanted an all black interior, which was too dark without the panoramic roof.  If there had been a cheaper fixed option I would probably have gone for that, but I'm really glad it opens, as I use it a lot.  It helps that it has a pre-set position (80ish% open) that means no buffeting at all and acceptable noise at motorway speeds, as fully open is a bit annoying above 35mph unless you have a window down.

I like that it has a proper solid sliding cover and doesn't stick out above the car when it's open.

It's not a non-negotiable like a decent sound system and memory seats, especially if it's not a panoramic one, but it's likely my next car will have a sunroof.
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PhilD
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My Car: Fiat Grande Punto Sporting

Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 15807



PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:


I'd go for a sunroof over a glass roof I think?



I'm not sure I need opening/air so much as light and the view.
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gonnabuildabuggy
Nuclear

My Car: Sorted for E's

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 12069


Location: Somewhere, rounadabouts

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
As soon as I could get a car with aircon (first was a 406 back in 1996), I wasn't interested in a sunroof at all, there were plenty of other options I wanted a lot more.
.

I'd go for aircon over a sunroof (standard air con was one reason for my 405) but now I've had a few sunroofs and remembered how nice they are then it's becoming a requirement. FRV hasn't got one (nor was it an option) but I've only been looking at RX's with one fitted.
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
Propellorhead

My Car: Mini Countryman Cooper S All4

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 15518


Location: Europa

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
gonnabuildabuggy wrote:


I'd go for a sunroof over a glass roof I think?



I'm not sure I need opening/air so much as light and the view.

Likewise - I'd be happy with a panoramic roof, but it wouldn't need to open. If I wanted that, I'd get a convertible.
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Big Blue
Nuclear

My Car: Alpina B5 BiTurbo Touring Nr15 (The Gorilla); Yamaha R1 (the Black Whanger); The E46 323i With No Name

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 10861


Location: SW1. Back where I belong.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
PhilD wrote:
gonnabuildabuggy wrote:


I'd go for a sunroof over a glass roof I think?



I'm not sure I need opening/air so much as light and the view.

Likewise - I'd be happy with a panoramic roof, but it wouldn't need to open. If I wanted that, I'd get a convertible.


+1, although mine opens. It's nice to let the light in and even nicer to look up at the stars in the sky whilst being serviced during dogging.
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JohnC
Supercharged

My Car: 435D Coupe

Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 5098


Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I open my sunroof on almost every journey except when it's raining or very cold. It's so nice to have the air around you without all the exposure you get from a convertible. It adds a degree of enjoyment I didn't realise I missed, until I got a sunroof again (haven't had one since my mega mile days in 2 Golf GTi's and my E300-24V, which was nearly 20 years ago!)
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Roadrunner
Turbocharged

My Car: Mercedes-Benz E320 cdi Sport Estate, MINI Cooper Clubman, 1932 Standard Big 9.

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 4711


Location: Somewhere near a herd of cows

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnC wrote:
I open my sunroof on almost every journey except when it's raining or very cold. It's so nice to have the air around you without all the exposure you get from a convertible. It adds a degree of enjoyment I didn't realise I missed, until I got a sunroof again (haven't had one since my mega mile days in 2 Golf GTi's and my E300-24V, which was nearly 20 years ago!)


That's pretty much what I do every morning. Roof open, heated seat on and blast over the Cotswolds to the office, watching the golden sunrise reflected off the honey stones of Chipping Campden. Marvellous!
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Frank Bullitt
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Punto had a normal sunroof and no A/C, given the choice it's A/C every time but I'd rather have both, the old A2 was lovely with open-sky and climate which would be my preference. Likewise, smarts with glass roofs alone bathing the cabin in light was lovely too.
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gonnabuildabuggy
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My Car: Sorted for E's

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 12069


Location: Somewhere, rounadabouts

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnC wrote:
I open my sunroof on almost every journey except when it's raining or very cold. It's so nice to have the air around you without all the exposure you get from a convertible. It adds a degree of enjoyment I didn't realise I missed, until I got a sunroof again (haven't had one since my mega mile days in 2 Golf GTi's and my E300-24V, which was nearly 20 years ago!)


Similar, roof open and heating blasting if it's cold. In all fairness I would prefer a convertible but practicalities tend to get in the way, and I've got one of those as well. When I had the 9-3 it was roof down every journey if I was on my own and it wasn't raining, one of the best trips I did was down to Devon in October late at night.

After A/c only cars from 1995 onwards it was Racing's mate's Golf GTI which reminded me how good they were. Since then all my purchases have had sunroofs (535, E500 (Panoramic) and Mini (Twin)).  It's a bit of a dilemma on next purchase as some cars seem to have the option of a roof or glass but not both.

Of course the ultimate is an 70's Classic with a Webasto.




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