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So it's not just the evo letters page...
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Tim
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:40 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Yes but they probably knew in advance  
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Frank Bullitt
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
Yes but they probably knew in advance  


Eye, they were expecting a full strip-down resto, Mark just comes across them!
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Tim
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Tim wrote:
Yes but they probably knew in advance  


Eye, they were expecting a full strip-down resto, Mark just comes across them!


I'm waiting for the "I put 2 bales in my new trailer and it disintegrated while at the same time ripping the towhook off the Defender" rebuild thread  
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TreVoR
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

 
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
I'm not sure how they could recommend, for example, the M4 GTS so highly without taking account of the readership - they make the point that it gave several of them a fright and they're professional drivers.


I read this yesterday, and I think it sums up the aspect of evo that I have never liked, and which still keeps me from bonding with it.  The occasional moment of wild excitement is all that matters, in your desperately-hard-to-tame road-monster - but getting it right is sooo satisfying.

To my way of looking at things, a car's overall level of enjoyment is provided by how enjoyable it is multiplied by some formula based upon how often you can enjoy it and how you'll use it.  Thus a car that is unpleasant on anything but billiard table-smooth roads, or will try to kill you in poor conditions, or which is crap until you've got its tyres up to temperature with a sound thrashing has very little appeal to me.

But then I'm clearly not a true evo guy, eh?
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Tim
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clearly not.
I had a quick skim through it again last night and they barely mention the Aston and don't really go into depth with the Honda either.

You're right about the brief moments being all that matter - one test that always sticks in my mind is the eCOTY from 2007 (it's mentioned n this year's one) when the 911 GT3 was an aloof also-ran until someone took it for a late night, death-defying blast and suddenly it won. But it won in unrealistic circumstances.
I really don't think they should waste their time with trackday specials like the M4GTS either.


Have you read CAR mag this month?
They have their sports car of the year test and it includes many of the same contenders but with different results.
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Michael
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread came to mind when I looked up Porsche on the app store last night and the Evo app was one of the first results.
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Martin
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like reading about cars I won't buy / experience as much as I do about those that I might.  As long as the review is clear on the strengths / weaknesses of the car, then I can make my own mind up about whether or not it's the best one for me.  It's only something to worry about if having a test winning car is all that matters to you.

I completely agree about the most important thing being the result of a Enjoyment x Frequency equation, which is why straight line performance isn't key imo.
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it's just about having a test-winning car - I think they owe their readership a balanced view, and many of us arrive at different conclusions based upon what we read.  It might not all be about speed in a straight line, but equally it shouldn't all be about driving beyond the limits of adhesion (in my case, talent too, no doubt) and in a fashion that makes no sense when not on a track.

This is exactly what I mean when I've described the evo team as the 'self-styled hard men of automotive journalism.'  That aspect is Queefy and largely irrelevant to most of us when it comes to assessing a car's merits.  Doesn't mean I don't want to read about it, but I expect my reporter to be secure enough in his trousers for it not to have to be the be all and end all.
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Martin
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with all of that.

It's still the only mag I enjoy reading.  I skim through the Autocars my dad passes on to me and have tried Car & Top Gear but didn't enjoy reading them all that much.  
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Tim
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree with that too.

If anything a car that only fills you with joy at 10/10 is something to be avoided.

In addition I've read several tests where they've said a car is 'adequately quick' or similar, the latest was in reference to the M2 in the CAR test, and I've realised journos - at least of the mags I read - appear to have completely lost touch.
A similar comment was also in the test of the Aston V8 Vantage versus something else in the previous CAR and it coincided with me taking the M5 for a 'proper' blast and thinking how fast that was and yet they think a car with 30BHP more and 100kg less is just ok!
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must be reading a different Evo to the rest of you.
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Tim
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
I must be reading a different Evo to the rest of you.


How so?
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil is a driving deity - he understands!

 
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is why evo are at odds with all the other magazines on the latest MX5. As a car that delivers enjoyment at sensible speeds on the road, and to drivers who aren't Lewis Hamilton but for the grace of, it's just about ideal, but for evo's Queefists, it doesn't offer them the chance to show their driving Godliness. Hence it's "flawed".

And what Tim said about power - my GT3 had 415 PS, which is barely above hot hatch level these days, and yet even in unrestricted Germany, it felt almost too fast a lot of the time, and you couldn't approach its limits except on a very empty three-lane Autobahn early in the morning.
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TreVoR
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never thought that my 90s kit car needs more power. 280 or so is more than plenty to get into too much trouble.

I do think Lindsey's MX-5 could do with a touch more in gear acceleration, but saying that, it is deceptively quick when you wind it up.  It's more about grip and balance than outright speed.
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My definition of enough power is: when the turbodiesel that's been hogging the middle lane finally moves over, then predictably floors it, can you still get past him?
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TreVoR
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TVR yes, Mazda not necessarily - it's only got 160bhp.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting - I don't often get caught out in the Mini - though the fact it's a turbo probably helps. Plus my willingness to go down as many gears as it takes ...
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
My definition of enough power is: when the turbodiesel that's been hogging the middle lane finally moves over, then predictably floors it, can you still get past him?


I was following a de-badged 3 on Monday for mile after mile, who wouldn't move out of the third lane despite ample opportunity.  The hoof when they do move over is depressingly inevitable, and dealt with in the same way.
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Martin
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of these days it won't be a 318d.....  
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't have to drop a gear (let alone 2 or 3) for them, you know!
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Martin
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not if they're a manual, no.  8th is a touch high geared in mine, 6th is ideal for maximum effect / making a point, any lower than that is overkill or reserved for something a lot quicker.

Lane hogging is the behaviour that annoys me the most when driving.
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
One of these days it won't be a 318d.....  

Yes,but Twelfth isn't in a A4 TDi either!
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PG wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Good old British reserve!

The letters page over the last few weeks has made me wonder what happened to the famed British modesty.  It now seems full of people writing in to talk in (barely) coded terms about how much their car collections cost - it's like being invaded by a Cheshire golf club..


You could not have said it better.


From this week:

No more 'three car garage' letters, please.  They are just an excuse to show off.  Jealous?  Maybe.  Bored? Undoubtedly.

Followed by a bore from Jersey with a 911 GT3 (which we have to be told is a 991, and the best of all the 911s he's ever owned), an R26R (which he drives around French circuits and hillclimbs) and a Morris Minor (presumably because the Jersey speed limits are so low. He also lists his Mrs's car and his electric bicycle, and concludes that he's 'not sensible, thank goodness.'

Nope, but there are worse things that you can be, Anthony Olsen...
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read the 3 car garage letters as similar and was tempted to reply with details of my own budget alternative.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
PhilD wrote:
I must be reading a different Evo to the rest of you.


How so?


I will reply to this eventually Tim  
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Tim
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When?  
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Stuntman
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear God - some Luddite droning on about his RS4 this time.  How bloody perfect it is, how much better it is than the current crop of sports saloons...
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just about to say the same Stunts, great minds and all that. They must, generally, have a paucity of letters as he's had a few published now.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuntman wrote:
Dear God - some Luddite droning on about his RS4 this time.  How bloody perfect it is, how much better it is than the current crop of sports saloons...


And the fact he's had it modded. Show off.
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy C wrote:
Stuntman wrote:
Dear God - some Luddite droning on about his RS4 this time.  How bloody perfect it is, how much better it is than the current crop of sports saloons...


And the fact he's had it modded. Show off.


Sounds like a proper boy racer.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PH has recently run an E90 M3 story and I may have droned on about mine a little bit in their comments thread
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With friends like these, eh?!

Thou shalt not disagree with the writers, though. Not without being edited, anyway. I also said that the description of the steering was unrecognisable to me, and that was cut. 'Feels different at low speed and doesn't self-centre'. Neither is correct. I'd charitably suggested that this might have been tyre-related, rather than it being a duff example or ham-fisted hackery. But thou shalt not contradict the hard men of automotive journalism...

Will try not to bang on about how brilliant my car is for the next few minutes or so!


Did anyone else notice in the piece about Williams that they'd retrospectively removed the '94 title from Shuey's roster?
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:

Did anyone else notice in the piece about Williams that they'd retrospectively removed the '94 title from Shuey's roster?


And they've removed it from your post.
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTF?
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a conspiracy.
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Stuntman
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think I understand the question.  Schuey won the '94 title, but he was driving a Benetton-Renault.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuntman wrote:
I don't think I understand the question.  Schuey won the '94 title, but he was driving a Benetton-Renault.


Is that the year Schuey crashed and then "deliberately" crashed into Damon Hill (in a Williams) to stop Hill winning the title?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep.  (And I was wrong, it was a Benetton-Ford.)
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anything else exciting apart from the Williams article? Oh, and Twelfth's always-erudite contribution to the letters page?
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Stuntman
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bit thin this time I think.  M3 GTS versus M4 GTS was quite interesting, the rest of it reads more like advertorial.  Shame.

This may sound like heresy but I'm actually considering ending my subscription.
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're strenuously denying it on their forum, but I can't help but think they've suffered from so many people leaving at once.
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Tim
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was noticeably thinner this month I thought.

I'm not going to say anything about them covering hideously expensive retro-mod Porsches or E Types (same car was in Octane too).

I'm also wondering why there's a buyers guide for the Ferrari 458 so soon after they did the 360 or 430 or whatever it was.

I don't think 12th's contribution quite hits the mark properly, there's no reference to a line of distinguished, expensive prior purchases and also no throw-away reference to the delightful second car that was purchased for his wife.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
also no throw-away reference to the delightful second car that was purchased for his wife.


The second car is sometimes something a bit non-Evo but expensive and vulgar, e.g. Cayenne Turbo S (have to say it's the S)
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, must try harder I know...

There does seem to be more of the 'fringe' about it these days, cars you can't buy even if you've got the cash etc.  I've never really bonded with it to a great degree, and will be seeing how it goes over the next few months before deciding whether to bin the subscription.
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Bob Sacamano
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Sorry, must try harder I know...

There does seem to be more of the 'fringe' about it these days, cars you can't buy even if you've got the cash etc.  I've never really bonded with it to a great degree, and will be seeing how it goes over the next few months before deciding whether to bin the subscription.


They might offer you a column.

EDIT: You could call it Twelfth's Right.



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Nice Guy Eddie
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The magazines a bit thin this month but from memory it still covers a fair amount. Compared with this months Car Magazine its the size of the bible.
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Frank Bullitt
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always regret purchasing Evo when it has what appears to e a good article, it's rarely a worthy read.
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Sorry, must try harder I know...

There does seem to be more of the 'fringe' about it these days, cars you can't buy even if you've got the cash etc.  I've never really bonded with it to a great degree, and will be seeing how it goes over the next few months before deciding whether to bin the subscription.


They might offer you a column.

EDIT: You could call it Twelfth's Right.



Sounds like the kiss of death to me!


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