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Lying fatso.
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:19 am    Post subject: Lying fatso.  Reply with quote

Having read evo's hot hatch test in 184, I couldn't help but notice the weight discrepancies.  Percentage-wise, I suspect these are the biggest differences between claimed and as tested weights.  I'm wondering if it's not just VAG that is quoting dry weights.

Renault Clio 200 Turbo:

Claimed 1204kg.
As tested 1294kg.
Excess pork 90kg/7.48%.

Ford Fiesta ST:

Claimed 1088kg.
As tested 1193kg.
Excess pork 105kg/9.65%.

I know that by today's standards the Fester is quite light, but as percentages, they're a long way out.  Seen worse?
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are weight obsessed  

Seen a few shockers recently but can't remember any. Fluids generally add 100kg don't they? and do they include a driver with these weights?
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Tim
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The weights quoted in my BMW handbooks are for a driver, 90kg (I think) of luggage and 75% fuel load.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
The weights quoted in my BMW handbooks are for a driver, 90kg (I think) of luggage and 75% fuel load.


I think this is the industry norm but it's not a specific standard - isn't the current RR supposed to be a feather by comparrison until Autocar put one on the scales and found it weighed just as much as before?

To be honest, I'm more surprised to see a car tip the scales at the quoted weight than find an extra 100+kg have arrived on the production line!
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely the car's weight should be car with fluids (inc full tank) but without luggage or driver?
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Tim
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Surely the car's weight should be car with fluids (inc full tank) but without luggage or driver?


That would make sense, but....................
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, I see my mistake!
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

F-Type V8S, quoted at 1,665kg, weighing in at 1,810.  8.7% over the odds.

I quite like the F Type, but that's heavy for a car with just two seats and almost no luggage space.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quoted weights should be an industry standard:

No driver (Why include driver weight? Every driver is different), car as roadworthy (As in all fluids, ready to run), 20 Litres of fuel on board (So no manufacturers can moan that their car is heavier because it has a bigger tank).
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 197 was 1250kg with half a tank of fuel, so the new one is lardier...
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Tim
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
F-Type V8S, quoted at 1,665kg, weighing in at 1,810.  8.7% over the odds.

I quite like the F Type, but that's heavy for a car with just two seats and almost no luggage space.


Yeah but it's actually a fairly large car so 1800kg isn't really that surprising.
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blarno wrote:
Quoted weights should be an industry standard:

No driver (Why include driver weight? Every driver is different), car as roadworthy (As in all fluids, ready to run), 20 Litres of fuel on board (So no manufacturers can moan that their car is heavier because it has a bigger tank).


Driver important if car is very low weight and claiming a high bhp/tonne. It would also be good if mags told you about how a car performs 4 up with a boot full of luggage and a roof box  
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
F-Type V8S, quoted at 1,665kg, weighing in at 1,810.  8.7% over the odds.

I quite like the F Type, but that's heavy for a car with just two seats and almost no luggage space.


Yeah but it's actually a fairly large car so 1800kg isn't really that surprising.


It still seems a lot for a two-seater with limited accommodation, doubly so as there are claims of aluminium-based lightness and (most importantly for this thread) a massive difference between claimed and kerb weights.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
It still seems a lot for a two-seater with limited accommodation, doubly so as there are claims of aluminium-based lightness and (most importantly for this thread) a massive difference between claimed and kerb weights.

Jaguar have form for this: I can't remember the last of their cars that DIDN'T weigh at least 100 kg more than claimed. And yes, 1810 kg is ridiculous for a compact two-seater.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peugeot 2008 1.6 e-DHi 115 Feline, stupid fucking name, go to the head of the class so far:

Claimed 1,180 kg.
As tested 1,310 kg
Size of pork pie: Just over 11%,,,
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2008 e-hid Porcine?
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very witty!
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Frank Bullitt
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Peugeot 2008 1.6 e-DHi 115 Feline, stupid fucking name, go to the head of the class so far:

Claimed 1,180 kg.
As tested 1,310 kg
Size of pork pie: Just over 11%,,,


Ah, but what is the claimed weight - the Peugeot brochure sets out two weights as follows:

Kerb weight - 1,180kg
Mass in service - 1,335kg

I would expect, therefore, the latter to be the weight on the road and therefore Peugeot have overquoted by nearly 2%...

Lies, damned lies and statistics!
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Eff One
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Lying fatso. Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:

Ford Fiesta ST:

Claimed 1088kg.
As tested 1193kg.
Excess pork 105kg/9.65%.

I know that by today's standards the Fester is quite light, but as percentages, they're a long way out.  Seen worse?


I thought the ST's claimed weight was 1163kg?
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought 'kerb weight' meant weight when at the kerb, i.e. on the road.  To me, that suggest full compliment of fluids etc.  Having two weights seems about as fair as monarchs having two birthdays...
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RS6 was 2070kg against claimed 2010.  less than 3% over (though still weighs a fuck of a lot).
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Tim
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that the current or previous RS6?

Still hefty though. Kinda upsets Audi's claims to making cars lighter.
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Current.  The whole point about this thread is that it seems most manufacturers are downplaying weight or using the cheat of excluding fluids.  VAG is often singled out for this, but it's been interesting to see how these discrepancies/pork pies seem to be spread far and wide.

EDIT: Todays is the Golf GTi, 1450 against 1402, which is about 3.5%.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I saw the thread title, I thought it was going to be about Eric Piccles. Or Gordon Brown.

Sorry.
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Understandable...
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pickles seems pretty honest to me, quite like him!
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PR
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm aware of people who have met him in a professional capacity and say he's an arsehole.
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PR wrote:
I'm aware of people who have met him in a professional capacity and say he's an arsehole.


how so?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, let me say that it was all a second-hand account when it came to me but essentially some local representatives met Pickles to challenge a contentious development that he had approved. In this meeting he apparently behaved in a 'don't you know who I am' sort of way, lost his temper and bellowed at his aides and seemed to disbelieve that anyone would dare to challenge his judgement.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PR wrote:
Well, let me say that it was all a second-hand account when it came to me but essentially some local representatives met Pickles to challenge a contentious development that he had approved. In this meeting he apparently behaved in a 'don't you know who I am' sort of way, lost his temper and bellowed at his aides and seemed to disbelieve that anyone would dare to challenge his judgement.


Yep - I can quite believe that.
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Tim
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PR wrote:
Well, let me say that it was all a second-hand account when it came to me but essentially some local representatives met Pickles to challenge a contentious development that he had approved. In this meeting he apparently behaved in a 'don't you know who I am' sort of way, lost his temper and bellowed at his aides and seemed to disbelieve that anyone would dare to challenge his judgement.


Sounds like your average politician to me.
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PR wrote:
Well, let me say that it was all a second-hand account when it came to me but essentially some local representatives met Pickles to challenge a contentious development that he had approved. In this meeting he apparently behaved in a 'don't you know who I am' sort of way, lost his temper and bellowed at his aides and seemed to disbelieve that anyone would dare to challenge his judgement.


Source may have been peed off because they weren’t getting what they wanted, but being rude to aides is never good form (even if Greggs is just about to close and the donuts are going to be ½ price)
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercedes GL350 Pootec AMG Sport.

Quoted 2,455 kg.
Actual 2,710 kg.

Excess pork 255kg/10.4%.

In fairness the list of options does include some mechanical gubbins, but that's a fuck of an understatement.

AMG Sport my arse.  I doubt there's anything less AMG Sport-y than a seven-seat turbodiesel off-roader...

Leather seats not standard either, which takes the piss on a car that starts at £60k.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's quite a masterclass in lying...
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lexus IS300 Premier - nice name.

1,690 against quoted at 1,720.  Underweight?  Whatever next?

Is it just me, or does £40k seem a lot for this?  That said, the standard kit list shames the Germans...
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Bob Sacamano
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Lexus IS300 Premier - nice name.

1,690 against quoted at 1,720.  Underweight?  Whatever next?

Is it just me, or does £40k seem a lot for this?  That said, the standard kit list shames the Germans...


It is a lot but it's easy to spec the 3 series and A4 up to the same.

Interestingly the new IS is winning all the ride and handling tests against the Germans. Seems Lexus got it right this time.

I've always thought it a pity they didn't bring the IS350 to the UK - a much better engine that the BMW 335i, normally aspirated, and far more reliable.
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The overall verdict isn't great, but the ride/handling balance is praised.  It seems that the range-topper is held back by crappy eco tyres, a lacklustre drivetrain and less sophisticated  suspension than is found lower down the range.  This last one, I assume, is a packaging issue because of the hybrid drivetrain.  Battery flat on second lap of track, costing 2 secs.  

This model is definitely not the sweet spot in the range and whilst I may not like the looks, it would be nice to see the default choice of turbodiesel saloon being something other than German for a while.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
This model is definitely not the sweet spot in the range and whilst I may not like the looks, it would be nice to see the default choice of turbodiesel saloon being something other than German for a while.


I reckon the IS Sport of the best choice. I drove this at the test day. It has the instruments that mimic the LFA and the noise generator that hides the drivetrain. Yes, Autocar hate it - it is not a sweet handling BMW 320D. But if it was me, I'd take that Lexus just to be different and non-diesel.
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there no longer a diesel IS?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Is there no longer a diesel IS?


They decided not to develop a new diesel, seeing it as dead end technology, and went all hybrid across the range.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't the biggest problem with the Lexus drivetrain the CVT gearbox?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
Isn't the biggest problem with the Lexus drivetrain the CVT gearbox?


Dunno - mine was an auto, not a CVT.

The e-CVT they use on the hybrids works well IMO, blending the petrol and electric power better than anything else I've driven.


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Tim
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
Isn't the biggest problem with the Lexus drivetrain the CVT gearbox?


CAR or EVO got stuck into it about the fake engine noise generator failing to drown out the wailing of the real engine.
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PG
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
Isn't the biggest problem with the Lexus drivetrain the CVT gearbox?


I think that they've messed about with it to make it pretend to have ratios in the IS300. In manual mode and with the sound generator on, the IS Sport felt quite "normal".
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
Martin wrote:
Isn't the biggest problem with the Lexus drivetrain the CVT gearbox?


CAR or EVO got stuck into it about the fake engine noise generator failing to drown out the wailing of the real engine.


That's bollocks. Does anyone think Lexus would bring out a luxury car that "wails"?
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RR Spurt TDV6.

Claimed 2,115kg.
Actual 2,350kg.

A new Lying Fatso record (I believe) at 11.6% over...
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New S class

Claimed 1975 kgs
Actual 2215 kgs

Lovely interior (when you spunk for the Nappa option) and amazingly refined.

But, it's pig ugly from every angle and doesn't sound much fun to drive.
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Previous convictions :

2016 XF S
2015 Focus ST3
XF diesel S Portfolios (12, 13, 13.5 & 15my)
2012 XF 5.0 V8S
2011 XJ 3.0D (SWB)
2011 XKR Coupe
2010 XF 5.0 V8 S
1995 XJ6 3.2 auto
2008 S60 D5 185
2006 Focus ST 2.5
2001 BMW 520i
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Blarno
Cheapskate Know-it-all

My Car: The Flying Glacier Mint

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 17038


Location: The Shores of Hell

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

240Kg!

That's 3 of me.
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Sphincteral Twitch: Debut EP "Disastrous Rectal Misfortune" work in progress.

Morbid Obesity: Debut album "Shallow Gravy" due...work in progress.

Spiderpuncher - A seedy trip into electro industrial madness.

Pathway - Punk. Loud. Probably crap.

Giant wrote:
Blarno is right
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Twelfth Monkey
Nuclear

My Car: B7 RS4 Saloon, A3 Sportback 2.0T

Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 14462


Location: The Fortress of Ultimate Darkness; that or the pub.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and at 12.15%, it's a new record.
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"Accident Blackspot"? These aren't accidents. They're throwing themselves into the road gladly. Throwing themselves into the road to escape all this hideousness.'

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Sav
Forum F1 Champ 07, 08, 09

My Car: ^^^

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 2552


Location: You tell me...

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mind the new S-Class, visually - looks much better with bigger wheels and the AMG bodykit too.


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