Archive for The Motor Forum talking cars since 2006          The Motor Forum Forum Index -> Racing Posts Matt You Can't Take-a-way my Breakaway. Quote: It's official: F1 is broken. At least, with the FOTA's announcement it will create a rival championship, it appears that F1 as we have known it is all but broken. Max Mosley and the FIA have gone back and forth with the FOTA for months, with neither side able to agree on a compromise and both sides claiming the other party is being intransigent. After meeting at Renault's Enstone, England headquarters the eight "rebel" teams (Ferrari, McLaren, Toyota, Renault, BMW, Brawn, Red Bull, Toro Rosso) decided there was no way to proceed with the FIA, so it would proceed without the FIA. The crucial bits of their follow-up press release state: "The teams cannot continue to compromise on the fundamental values of the sport and have declined to alter their original conditional entries to the 2010 World Championship. "These teams therefore have no alternative other than to commence the preparation for a new Championship which reflects the values of its participants and partners. This series will have transparent governance, one set of regulations, encourage more entrants and listen to the wishes of the fans, including offering lower prices for spectators worldwide, partners and other important stakeholders. "The major drivers, stars, brands, sponsors, promoters and companies historically associated with the highest level of motorsport will all feature in this new series." The release goes on to address issues the FOTA has with the "commercial rights holder," by which they mean Bernie Ecclestone. If they mean what they've written, a more stable and less expensive F1 would be a victory for teams and fans. Track owners would probably also profit, since they pay Ecclestone more than ten million pounds simply for the right to hold an F1 race -- and that's part of the money the teams want a bigger share of. Many observers have said the teams won't set up another championship because they're too focused on selling cars. But the FOTA has already spoken to Carmelo Ezpeleta, whose Dorna Sports company is in charge of Moto GP, and who has experience in taking control of the series from the FIM. If he can provide a turn-key solution, the teams can stick to doing what they do best. We suspect the FOTA is correct and that brands, sponsors and promoters will follow the breakaway series rather than hang back with Williams, Force India and eight other teams in the F1 reset series. The question is: if those eight teams follow through, and assuming they take their contracted drivers, which series will get your attention next year? For now, though, bring on the lawyers. Thanks to all who tipped in. http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/1...ation-announces-breakaway-series/ Dr. Hfuhruhurr Re: You Can't Take-a-way my Breakaway. Matt wrote: The question is: if those eight teams follow through, and assuming they take their contracted drivers, which series will get your attention next year? I don't think that's a question at all! Matt The only worry is, are the BBC locked into showing F1 and will the new series go to Sky? I wouldn't pay extra for Sky Sports to watch any formula. Racing No, F1 and the FIA can go twist in the wind at that point, and I think we'd all enjoy seeing it happen. What we need now is for Prince Albert of Monaco, who appeared earlier to, however discretely, be backing the FOTA, to offer the Monaco GP event to the new championship. THAT would make me cheer and really knife FIA and Ecclemidget. Humphrey The Pug Matt wrote: The only worry is, are the BBC locked into showing F1 and will the new series go to Sky? I wouldn't pay extra for Sky Sports to watch any formula. The BBC are probably locked in to show F1 but I would guess they are contracted to show F1 as it is now. If it all changes and indeed the majority of the teams defect to a new series probably to include Lola and Prodrive too there must be some contractual oblication from the FIA or CVC or Bernie, whoever the contract is with, to the BBC and now the contract may well be broken due to the defection, the same probably goes with the worldwide TV rights, advertising and tracks too. I wouldn't be surprised if Moseley now caves in, it'll be an interesting few days. Can Bernie get Moseley kicked out for bringing the sport into disrepute and then broker a deal himself? Mike Amos Perhaps their British GP will be held at Silverstone too? With the loss of the prestige teams from the series and the alternative series getting the better tracks, perhaps Bernie and Max will have had their day, and depart.  Nice thought but I doubt it. TimR What the hell is wrong with them all? We've finally got a decent season with plenty of overtaking, some new names at the sharp end, old names struggling and generally a bit of excitement and they go and cause a major media distraction with this shite. None of them - the FIA or FOTA - deserve to be involved in a major championship with any kind of coverage. They're just like a bunch of spoilt children, unwilling to compromise and throwing their toys out of the pram. Maybe they should start up a football team and make their first  signings Ronaldo and Drogba. Sav F1 will virtually be worthless compared to FOTA's series, compared to if all the teams were going to stay. I cannot see many people paying over £200 to see Campos, USF1, Williams etc compete. Lets be honest, F1 has looked like a shambles for years. And I highly doubt that half of the new privateers can even run a whole season. USF1 are said to be in trouble, after sponsor talks have failed. So if supposedly the most prepared team is having troubles, imagine what the rest are like. Sky Sports has mass audiences. Sav TimR wrote: with plenty of overtaking Really? Unless its a street course with those super soft tyres which seem to last for only a handful of laps, I don't see 'plenty of overtaking'. TimR Sav wrote: Sky Sports has mass audiences. I'm not sure that's totally correct. Rodge TimR wrote: Sav wrote: Sky Sports has mass audiences. I'm not sure that's totally correct. It happens every 4 years for the Roman Catholic Olympics. They broadcast live to the local chapel here.... I'll let you imagine some of the events   I'm glad to see the teams finally realising that they have the power to do something. The FIA needed a good kick in the buttocks for a long time. The WRC has gone to the dogs, now F1 is falling apart in a good season, Le Mans is virtually non existant outside of Eurosport. It's about time someone did something about it. Big TC The masses will follow the series that has Ferrari, McLaren, Hamilton, Raikkonen, Alonso, et al. With only 8 teams, will they all have 3-car teams, then? Not that I believe the split will actually happen - I think the FIA and the Bernie cash-cow will suffer too much. There will be a compromise, leaning in FOTA's direction. DaveGibson I believe the contracts with the broadcasters only specify the minimum number of cars (i.e. 20) for each race, not the team names. Of course, back in the sixties and seventies, the grid was formed from 'amateurs' ('garagistes' as Enzo Ferrari called them) and Ferrari. It didn't stop the amateurs winning most of the races. Nice Guy Eddie This has been on the cards for a long time. We have to ask what Bernie and the Fia actually provide that the teams can't do themselves. Bernie has taken the piss for years. The future he has shown us are races in the middle of a desert with no one in the stands. I don't think it will ever get to the point of a split as too many people have an interest in F1 being a success. DaveGibson There's an interesting bit in the FOTA statement as reported on the BBC's website: "The wishes of the majority of the teams are ignored. Furthermore, tens of millions of dollars have been withheld from many teams by the commercial rights holder, going back as far as 2006." Full story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8108488.stm Big Blue More amusing: it was Bernie's involvement in FOCA that led to F1 being the immense draw it is today, IIRC. So what will we see? An F1 race at Donnington; a FOTA race at Silverstone; the F1 race in Germany alternating between Hockenheim and the 'Ring and the FOTA race alternating the other way; Italian GPs will be where the Italians say they are, regardless of what the FiA think, say or do; a US and/or Canadian FOTO race will be back; Argentina, France, Holland, Austria, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Mexico all have ties with Grand Prix racing. All we would need to wait and see is which series has the first death for a codification of the 2 to occur. TimR Sav wrote: TimR wrote: with plenty of overtaking Really? Unless its a street course with those super soft tyres which seem to last for only a handful of laps, I don't see 'plenty of overtaking'. Watch the midfield, especially at the start of the race. Sadly KERS has helped increase overtaking but presumably that's done now. Dr. Hfuhruhurr Amusing that formula1.com is completely silent on the subject. the other ct After his high court drama and victory Max clearly thinks he is now invincible. At the moment everyone, especially the fans, seems to be with the teams. Because what we want is the fastest drivers in the fastest cars. I don't really care if Toyota choose to spend $bns to be in the midfield and Ferrari and McLaren have motorhomes that cost millions. When it comes to budget cuts someone should point out to Max that a top level football club just paid £80m for one player’s contract – twice his proposed team budget. Sport at the highest level is a tough business and very expensive people who want to join have to accept that. The reason the last brand new entry into F1 was (at the time) the second biggest car maker is because the teams only get half of what is generated the rest goes out of the sport. They only joined to add value to the wider business and products. To me it would make more sense to sort this out. TimR the other ct wrote: When it comes to budget cuts someone should point out to Max that a top level football club just paid £80m for one player’s contract – twice his proposed team budget. Sport at the highest level is a tough business and very expensive people who want to join have to accept that. The reason the last brand new entry into F1 was (at the time) the second biggest car maker is because the teams only get half of what is generated the rest goes out of the sport. They only joined to add value to the wider business and products. To me it would make more sense to sort this out. It should also be pointed out to him that his baby KERS has been chucked away now after less than half a season and some teams must've spent tens of millions on developing it. Is there still a massive bond needed by new teams to enter F1? Humphrey The Pug Also very hypocritical making teams accept drastic cost cutting when Bernie charges astronomical amounts to tracks so that they can stage a GP. Matt I'd be quite glad if the result is a return to the established European calendar with Silverstone, Spa, Magny Cours, Monza et al in it. BeN There has been talk (not a lot albeit) of the Singapore GP trying to negotiate its way out of its contractual agreement with the FIA after these developments. We shall see. TimR The news are now saying that the FIA will be taking legal action against the FOTA teams and Ferrari in particular have been singled out (according to the BBC anyway so that might just be speculation). So here we are on the eve of the British Grand Prix with a decent chance of a win for a British team and a British driver and the main F1 news on the British TV is a fight between the teams and the governing body. Well done you arseholes. Gooner I'm with the teams. The FiA have to realise they can't create a dictatorship and sort this out asap. Taking legal action against FOTA will not make them lay down and accept the proposed new rules. If they think they'll still have a credible championship then they're dafter than I thought. No-one wants to watch a load of unheard-of teams - I'd rather watch the World Loeb Championshit. And no-one watching means the sponsorship will dry up. Chris M Wants a V-10 TimR wrote: What the hell is wrong with them all? (snip) Maybe they should start up a football team and make their first  signings Ronaldo and Drogba. Ah... but one footballer can now be sold for more than a proposed budget for an entire F1 team.  Madness Skyhook The whole thing is a bad joke. A new series created by the teams? Who sets the technical regulations? What happens when Brawn comes out with a trick bit of kit next year? I get the impression most team leaders could start a fight in an empty room. F1 needs a dictator, but Mosley and Bernie have had their time. Thank you for everything, honestly, but it needs someone new. I bet the sponsors are loving this. I can almost hear the calculators whirring from here. "Hello, is that Ferarri? Hi. We are paying you rather a lot of pennies to race in F1, because of your heritage,  the F1 brand. This new championship, darlink, we love the logo, but you haven't actually won anything yet. It's a fresh start. No history when we sort the TV rights. What? Ah, that was F1, not this new thingy, what are you calling it again?"        The Motor Forum Forum Index -> Racing Posts Page 1 of 1