| Archive for The Motor Forum talking cars since 2006 |
| Grampa |
Yet another new car musingNot really courting opinion, more 'interested to hear opinions', but getting to the point where I need to be thinking about a replacement for the VXR as the contract runs out in March and I like to decide 4 or 5 months ahead in case I find an extended delivery (the VXR needed to be ordered in Oct for a March delivery)Thoughts so far (no drives, dealer visits or rental quotes acquired as yet), and there are only 2 which I could actually go and drive at the moment... 135 - lovely but difficult to justify the cost Megane 250 - not sure about the looks, will have to see one in the flesh (Humph - any idea when I can do this?) Scirocco - I fear it may be too slow thus needing an extra spend to get the R - again a car I can't see yet Cooper S Works (only one on the list that I've driven) - would be great fun, but another where I'd miss the performance of the Astra and do I want a third Mini on the drive? (though it might be fun if I got them repainted so we have a red, white and blue one!) New Astra VXR - means quite a wait and extending the contract on the existing - not too much of a problem really, but having waited I'd want to take delivery on launch day which would mean placing an order without driving it - not done this since I got an early Calibra, although having been really pleased with the current Astra, I can't imagine I wouldn't like the way the new one will drive. Anyone else's take on this lot? |
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| simonp |
Meg 250 won't be til Oct/Nov with first press cars going out in the former and demonstrators to dealers in the latter. That's what it says on the RS website. | ||||||||
| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Going on "natural progression from current car", how about the Insignia VXR? Expensive new, but a six-month old one would be a decent price and (more than) quick enough not to miss the Astra's performance.
If the 135i is over budget, the 130i is almost as quick. And how about a Focus RS? |
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| simonp |
A Mountune'd ST? | ||||||||
| Racing |
Does it need to be new?
In that case, the 130i is out because it's no longer in production. How about a 125i? Still does 0-60 in 6.4 secs and 152mph, which is hardly tardy? Plus I'm sure you could tune it since it is a mildly detuned 130i engine... List on a 125i MSport coupe is £25,175, representing a useful saving over a 135i at £29,615. And Broadspeed is offering £22,758 for a 125i MSport and £26,754 for a 135i MSport.... |
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| Jasper |
I think you owe it to yourself to try a Scirocco. You've spoken fondly of them on more than one occation IIRC and with 200bhp out the box, they are still fairly swift and easily remapped if that's an option.
The example I drove last year was very eyecatching in Red and had a lovely tactile black leather interior. 
Although I'm really only a fan of the red and white cars. P.s. Not my photo hence the poor quality |
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| Grampa |
Thanks: 125 is worth a look - that sounds about on the pace of the Astra, but then the Cooper S Works does until you actually drive it, so I guess getting behind the wheel is the only answer. I prefer to contract hire which means it either has to be new or still VAT qualifying, plus if I'm going to spend a whole lot of wedge I want to be able to spec it - with BMW's range of colours and trim options, I doubt I'd find one as I want - yours would be OK though!
Thanks for the photo - I must admit I hadn't imagined it in red and it does look rather nice - I'll have to see what the contract hire co think about a remap - they've told me before they're OK with aftermarket wheels, tow bars etc, but I don't know what they'll say about that.
Thanks for the info.
Insignia is more of an "I appreciate it as a really nice car" than "I want to own one" kind of car - I have thought about the Focus, but it's a bit OTT even for me - again more of a car to be admired than owned. Thanks for all the thoughts everyone - some more avenues to go down now. |
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| Matt |
Early accounts are the Astra VXR will be a proper coupe shape, if Autocar's article a few months back is accurate. Could be worth waiting for? | ||||||||
| simonp |
Could be 2011 before you see one, though. | ||||||||
| Martin |
A very sad day 
A 125i M Sport Coupe would be lovely, not quite the same as a 135i, but a nice change from a run of 4 cylinder cars. I like the Scirocco less and less the more I see. Is straight line performance that important?? I always thought it was looks very much top of your list? |
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| DaveGibson |
Shouldn't someone going by the name 'Grampa' drive a Jaguar or Mercedes? 
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| simonp |
There's the 1 series eliminated straight away then! 
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| Grampa |
Looks are No 1 (hence the option of waiting to see the new Astra VXR - I think it's going to look fantastic, plus if the current one is anything to go by, the build quality will be near if not at the top of the options on my list), but having had a Megane 225 followed by the Astra, the acceleration has become addictive! I actually like the looks of the 1 three door saloon (it's not really a coupe is it) - reminds me of the early three series when it was a much more compact car. Seen a couple in a metallic grey that seems to have much more of a shine than the other colours (haven't investigated this yet, so don't know if it's a special paint or anything) which makes the car look great. |
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| Martin |
For you, maybe
Old gramps likes the MINI as well  
A man of great taste obviously
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| Racing |
No! I always think of it as a 3dr saloon a la E30. |
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| simonp |
3 door? | ||||||||
| Grampa |
Deliberate mistake spotted 
Hey Martin - less of the old - I'm a young Gramps! |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Though actually, the 3-door hatch is my favourite 1-series of all. |
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| Guitar Zero |
If you like your Astra so much (and they are very, very good) - why don't you sniff out a deal on one of the last VXRs ? (assuming there as still some knocking around in the dealer network). | ||||||||
| Grampa |
I just don't see the point of having the same car again - the one I have is in perfect nick and my favourite colour, so it would be cheaper to hang on to it than pay more to have just the same car - not that that would be a problem as I like it so much - hence the thought of hanging on to the next one.
I must admit I do like to have a new model, and although it means buying without a test drive, the idea of having one on launch day does have an appeal - not as if I would be going for a totally unknown qty - I ordered my Calibra before you could get a test drive and was not disappointed one bit. I know some people say you get teething problems on a new model, but I think that's more of a 70's concept - I've had four or five cars within 2-3 months of their launch and never had such problems. |
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| Guitar Zero |
Hang on to that one then, but I would have thought getting a new lease one would be cheaper as you don't have big servicing bills, brake components, unwarrated part failures and road tax to worry about - particularly if they have a few left cluttering up their storage facility.
Personally, I don't see the point of changing model if your current car suits your needs perfectly, worst case is your saddled with something your not quite happy with for the next 3 years. Unless you get another turbo, you will miss the thumping performance of the Astra - so what appears to be the best solution is to keep your VXR for another 18 months until the new Astra Coupe VXR thingy is launched. 125i coop is a good call, but I suspect the cheap lease deals are for cloth trimmed SE models on teeny wheels, if looks are your bag then you will be wanting the daddy mac M sport model with 18s and leather. |
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| Grampa |
Oh yes - and that's where I start wondering if I can justify the cost - it was the cost of speccing the car as I would want it that threw a 3 coop out of the window last time round. |
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| Racing |
I reckon you could swing a 125i MSport coupe with metallic and leather for £24k.
Plus I note from the BMW configurator that the 135i-style 18" alloys are now standard on the 125i MSport as well (weren't previously) so you wouldn't need to budget extra for those. A 325i MSport coupe with leather and metallic is going to be at least £30k even after discount so the 125i does represent a worthwhile saving if you want a swift six-cylinder BMW coupe. |
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| scamper |
Before we get all rose tinted about 6 cylinders, i did not think the 325i was much cop - quiet engine note and not that fast and no bleeding torque. Just hope the 125i is different. the 130i/330i is in a different league, as again is the 135i/335i variant. | ||||||||
| Racing |
For the 125i, BMW website lists max torque (Nm/rpm) as 270/2500 (and 218bhp) against a weight of 1480.
Clearly that's not close to the 135i, which is listed as having max torque (Nm/rpm) 400/1300 (and 302bhp) against a weight of 1560. But 270Nm is hardly RX8 untorquey and the £4k price differential between the 125i and the 135i does needs to be accounted for! BMW do a performance exhaust for the 125i anyway, which would probably help with the drama factor. Anyway, best thing to do is to go and try each car you like the look/sound of. I was set on an S3 Sportback until I drove one. I also fancied a Scirocco until I drove one. I wasn't particularly taken with the 1-series until I drove one. Proof is in the pudding, as they say... |
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| Guitar Zero |
I think the question for Scamps is….
Did you drive the earlier 2.5 litre 325i ?, or the latest 3.0 litre 325i ?. |
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| ALF |
The 125 coupe was tested by various people as being something of a wet fart - I recall sutters saying it was one of those cars that just didn't feel as fast as the figures suggest, and they are not stellar. If it can be chipped to thr full-fat 130 engine, though, that would change things a lot!
I can't see there is an easy solution for you. Like Martin, I like the weird-looking Scirocco less every time I see one, and while the R may well look a lot better, it will doubtless cost plenty too. The new Megane looks lovely (as does that incredibly good-looking Laguna coupe thing, which if rides in one of my customer's Laguna estate are anything to go by, could be a good car!). Untested though, and the last Megane was a disaster in terms of quality. It would be a worry. Keeping the Astra has to be worth serious consideration - the VXR is a fine handling car and looks pretty special outside and in, I was highly impressed with the ones I drove around Thruxton, surging throttle response aside (something you learn to negate in time). |
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| scamper |
You tell me. In the road test section some nob wrote about it in Jan 08 and has it down as 218hp. Is that the latest engine? And the same nob described it as "a fine car" instead of "not much cop"
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| Guitar Zero |
Unfortunately my crystal ball is broken at the moment, but I can tell you that the 2.5 litre engine was discontinued in September 2007 - however this does not automatically mean one driven in Jan 2008 is the latest 3.0.
I thought it was only women who didn't know what engine is under the bonnet of the car they are driving ? |
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| PG |
Ah, the good old days, when you could rely on a BMW being sensibly badged. 325i, 2.5 litres, 330i 3 litres. Seemples. But now everything is 2 or 3 litres and the marketing department just make it up. It's just one more sign of the end of civilisation. |
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| simonp |
Some pics of the 250 currently parked outside RUK.
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| simonp |
Some more pics
All cribbed from the Renaultsport forum. |
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| scamper |
In that case i'd take the authors "218hp" 3 litre at his word - it was an out of the box new demo car. |
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| ALF |
That 250 looks bloody lovely - from the outside anyway! In fact it is not dissimilar to a more curvy, modern version of the Astra VXR... | ||||||||
| Mark |
I really liked the Megane Coupe I test drove recently. It's also quite a looker. | ||||||||
| simonp |
Very like it, inc. trapezoidal exhaust outlet and letterbox rear window. I have to admit that it's growing on me now i've seen it in colours other than custard yellow, but I still can't fathom out why it has those seemingly pointless vents behind the front wheelarches? |
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| Grampa |
Now I've seen that grey one the 250 has climbed a few notches up the list - thanks Simon - can you post a link to the RS site - tried Googling it, but either I'm dim or it's not an obvious link. | ||||||||
| simonp |
It's www.renaultsport.co.uk . There's a forum under the community banner at the top. | ||||||||
| Racing |
That does look quite nice in a boy-racer way. The black mouth works much better on that than on the Clio. | ||||||||
| Matt |
Renault should be applauded, because that's a lot nicer than the Clio's unfortunate facelift. I'd quite like it in that green the 200 is available in, though. | ||||||||
| Grampa |
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| Martin |
I really don't like the new Megane, hatch or coupe, but the grey one with black wheels doesn't look too bad. The boy racer comment hits the nail on the head and I think the bodykit looks messy.
I think I would keep the VXR and see what the next one is like. |
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| Clunes |
I live right next to Renault/Nissan UK!
Never spotted anything that interesting/new though despite casting an eye regularly (although a Nissan GTR passed me on the way home a week or two back which may be owned by someone there) I quite like the grey one with black wheels but hate the fussy wheels in some other pics. |