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Tim

What next

It must be car change time, I've not done anything for 2 years now.

So on the basis that I want to change the 530d (2003, 145k miles) and the 320d (2002, 95k miles) for 1 vehicle what do I go for.

Just to further complicate things we're now at the stage of renovating the house where a new kitchen and bathrooms will be getting done (by me) so I want something I can take to a DIY store and load up with stuff in boxes.
Additionally Mrs Tim drops me off at work and our commuter mileage has dropped dramatically so something interesting and petrol powered but still practical could be a contender.

Inspired by a neighbour I'd briefly considered an S-Max, albeit in 5 cylinder turbo guise, but when I looked on Autotrader the 3 on the market were all being sold with 'issues'.............

Budget is around £10k.

Any suggestions will be welcome  
Stuntman

Have you still got the M5, or did I miss its departure?

Given your brief, I'd suggest an Audi S4 Avant.
Tim

M5 still present & correct as is the Coupe!
Actually I remember from doing up houses before that you can get a surprising amount of stuff inside the Coupe, especially narrow items like skirting board  
Twelfth Monkey

Been away for a while Tim.  All well with you?
Tim

I'm fine thanks.
Work is often quite social at lunchtimes and I felt a bit awkward surfing onto here during the day plus there often seem to be meetings around then and I'm trying to maintain a good impression now I've finally got a job I'm enjoying!

In addition I think I needed a break from car chat (although being surrounded by women now car chat is more than welcome).
Roadrunner

AS mentionedabove, something S4 shaped would be good, or how about an AMG Benz?
Roadrunner

Or how about this?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/class...&price-to=11000&logcode=p
Roadrunner

Better still

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/class...mp;body-type=estate&logcode=p

Get it bought!
Tim

Isn't £10k of formerly premium German metal a bit of a risk?
The garage I worked at had a £10k 55 plate S4 that had a knackered engine (didn't stop them trying to sell it though   ) and my impression of oldish AMGs is that they're potential money pits.
They do sound good though  

ETA - old German metal with old man's gearboxes is probably a double no, no!
Frank Bullitt

Bit obvious perhaps but a V70 T5 or V70R and bank the change.
Roadsterstu

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Bit obvious perhaps but a V70 T5 or V70R and bank the change.


One option or for more 5 cylinder, turbocharged loveliness, how about a Mondeo estate with the 2.5T engine?
Andy C

Roadsterstu wrote:
One option or for more 5 cylinder, turbocharged loveliness, how about a Mondeo estate with the 2.5T engine?


Or a ZT 260 estate !
gooner

If AMGs seem a money pit why not a 500 engined model. You can get an R500 for your budget. If you can get past the looks they see, to be pretty well specced and are huge inside.
Grampa

Roadrunner wrote:
Or how about this?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/class...&price-to=11000&logcode=p


It's not so very long since a 10 year old 80,000 mile car would have been more or less at the end of its life - but look at that - more or less as new and probably comfortably less than half way through its life mileage wise.
Alf McQueef

Tim wrote:
Isn't £10k of formerly premium German metal a bit of a risk?
The garage I worked at had a £10k 55 plate S4 that had a knackered engine (didn't stop them trying to sell it though   ) and my impression of oldish AMGs is that they're potential money pits.
They do sound good though  

ETA - old German metal with old man's gearboxes is probably a double no, no!


I lurked on a lot of forums about all this for obvious reasons, and would be wary of going too old - but I still reckon a lot of AMG V8 stuff is a real bargain. Look at the C55 / RS4 / M3 thing in Evo recently - they mentioned the latter two were better driver's cars (in fact they massively over-egged the comparisons they made at the time, which were far closer) but the AMG is HALF the price now! Some AMG stuff lets you go much younger for £10k ish when the equivalent Audi is double that and more temperamental, indeed more expensive to run even when its working.

Very likely not for you this time but I reckon a lot of AMG stuff is a bargain!

You could ditch the 530d, 320d, and M5 and just get an XFR  
Stuntman

Alf McQueef wrote:
You could ditch the 530d, 320d, and M5 and just get an XFR  


Now that's a proper answer!
gooner

Stuntman wrote:
Alf McQueef wrote:
You could ditch the 530d, 320d, and M5 and just get an XFR  


Now that's a proper answer!


There's one on AT for £10k that's mapped to 600bhp but has engine problems, bit of tinkering and it could be a bargain!
Michael

Could you find a 159 sport wagon with a petrol V6 for that money? I know they're not amazing and the engine isn't the same but they look stunning and you've got form for this sort of thing.
gooner

this is a rare beast that could be tempting for your budget.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/class...ars&radius=1500&logcode=p
simonp

Michael wrote:
Could you find a 159 sport wagon with a petrol V6 for that money? I know they're not amazing and the engine isn't the same but they look stunning and you've got form for this sort of thing.


Might be heresy in these parts, but I think the 5 cylinder diesel sounds better than the petrol!
BeN

Too bad there isn't an M3 Touring, but I would go along those lines. A big-engined BMW estate. That should be nice.
Alf McQueef

Michael wrote:
Could you find a 159 sport wagon with a petrol V6 for that money? I know they're not amazing and the engine isn't the same but they look stunning and you've got form for this sort of thing.


They are quite tempting, mainly because the 159 V6 was a proper full-time 4WD system with rear bias, and a lot of Alfa woes are 4-pot engine or diesel related. They have awful MPG but there must be some cared-for ones out there for peanuts...
TreVoR

Alf McQueef wrote:
Michael wrote:
Could you find a 159 sport wagon with a petrol V6 for that money? I know they're not amazing and the engine isn't the same but they look stunning and you've got form for this sort of thing.


They are quite tempting, mainly because the 159 V6 was a proper full-time 4WD system with rear bias, and a lot of Alfa woes are 4-pot engine or diesel related. They have awful MPG but there must be some cared-for ones out there for peanuts...


I was very tempted by one of those but after half a dozen failed attempts at getting a test drive in a basic 159, never mind a V6, I went with the Legacy instead.
Tim

Some interesting suggestions there, thank you.

I was tempted by 159s for a while but I'd really want the TI and I'm not sure I'd be able to find one of those in V6 form.
Also I suspect they'll suffer from the same problem as the 320 which is that they're a piss-poor excuse for an estate car!
Maybe I was just spoiled by the space inside the Stilos but that's what I'm looking for.
Similarly getting an XFR would be a great idea except I doubt I'd get many bits of kitchen cabinet in there  

I'd completely overlooked the Mondeo in 5 pot form despite having thought about the S Max!

I refuse to consider the Volvos, I know it's shallow but I just couldn't bring myself to look at them for another 20 years or so.
No AMG Mercs either - I just don't like the looks of the ones that woul dfall into my price range.

Anyway, after looking at a Navara at the weekend and following a suggestion from Mrs Tim the search has taken a slightly strange turn with us deciding to keep the 320 (we were offered £700 for it so it might as well stay until it dies) and search instead for something quite a bit less practical and a whole lot more sporty.

Anybody want to have a guess   ?
Chris M Wanted a V-10

So you'd buy a Navara but not a Volvo ???
Tim

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
So you'd buy a Navara but not a Volvo ???


Yup.
I've driven a couple of current shape Navaras (the brand new one isn't out yet is it?) and enjoyed them whereas the Volvos I've driven have been dull.

Part of the reason for something like a Navara would be that in addition to doing a load of stuff to our current hose we intend our next one to be more rural so could easily be faced with winter roads like the ones in Mark's thread so a winter tyre shod saloon/hatch/estate just might be a bit short of ground clearance when its like that.
JohnC

Tim wrote:

Anybody want to have a guess   ?


Boxster.
cbeaks1

Gtv?
Tim

No and no.
However we did look for a nice V6 GT for a while but they're as common as rocking horse poo  
Michael

Brera?
cbeaks1

Maser 3200GT
TreVoR

Tim wrote:
Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
So you'd buy a Navara but not a Volvo ???


Yup.
I've driven a couple of current shape Navaras (the brand new one isn't out yet is it?) and enjoyed them whereas the Volvos I've driven have been dull.

Part of the reason for something like a Navara would be that in addition to doing a load of stuff to our current hose we intend our next one to be more rural so could easily be faced with winter roads like the ones in Mark's thread so a winter tyre shod saloon/hatch/estate just might be a bit short of ground clearance when its like that.


Navaras and Pathfinders are worse for rotting than Defenders so be careful!  The garage that is doing my defender has just done a 2008 Pathfinder chassis swap!   He said it was worse than most of the Land Rovers he has done.
gooner

TreVoR wrote:
Tim wrote:
Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
So you'd buy a Navara but not a Volvo ???


Yup.
I've driven a couple of current shape Navaras (the brand new one isn't out yet is it?) and enjoyed them whereas the Volvos I've driven have been dull.

Part of the reason for something like a Navara would be that in addition to doing a load of stuff to our current hose we intend our next one to be more rural so could easily be faced with winter roads like the ones in Mark's thread so a winter tyre shod saloon/hatch/estate just might be a bit short of ground clearance when its like that.


Navaras and Pathfinders are worse for rotting than Defenders so be careful!  The garage that is doing my defender has just done a 2008 Pathfinder chassis swap!   He said it was worse than most of the Land Rovers he has done.


A 2008 model?! I'd have expected that from a mid 90s Disco or Freelander but nit a Nissan built in 2008.

But Tims next car, the less practical sporty one. I reckon he's staying German with a TT or a Brera V6. But I'm never very good at guessing these things!
TreVoR

Yep, 2008. Nissan wouldn't or couldn't provide a new chassis so he sourced a decent one from a scrapyard, repaired the rust and had it hot dip galvanised. This is a 2007 Navara snapped in half.

http://youtu.be/Y1hijOHhB3Q
gooner

TreVoR wrote:
Yep, 2008. Nissan wouldn't or couldn't provide a new chassis so he sourced a decent one from a scrapyard, repaired the rust and had it hot dip galvanised. This is a 2007 Navara snapped in half.

http://youtu.be/Y1hijOHhB3Q


That's why terrorists prefer Hilux's!
Roadsterstu

TreVoR wrote:
Yep, 2008. Nissan wouldn't or couldn't provide a new chassis so he sourced a decent one from a scrapyard, repaired the rust and had it hot dip galvanised. This is a 2007 Navara snapped in half.

http://youtu.be/Y1hijOHhB3Q


Didn't that generation Navara also manage a stunning 1 star NCAP result? Horrendous vehicles, then.
TreVoR

Just had a look and it did indeed.
Tim

I'd completely forgotten about the Brera (and I consider myself an Alfa fan   ).
However, I don't really like them.
Not a TT either (I'd need to get a subscription to a tanning salon wouldn't I?) and while I like the 3200GT I also like having some money in the bank.

I'm aware that Navaras have some issues - again at my last work there was one that was sold then reappeared because the chassis was cracked.
For that reason were I to go for one it'd be a later version with lower miles

I should've also mentioned that in true forum fashion not only have the main criteria changed the budget has been expanded to about £20k  
PhilD

Z4
Nice Guy Eddie

996/7?
Andy C

3 Ka's?
Michael

Fiat 500 Abarth?
Tim

Z4 - no, although the chosen car does have a floor hinged throttle (plus I'll refer you back to the earlier sun tan comment   ).
996/7 - no, I don't like Porsches and am scared by the possibility of big engine bills.
3 KAs - just no.
Fiat 500 Abarth - no, although I have a worrying liking of the Grande Punto Abarth.
Martin

E61 M5 Touring?
Michael

Hang on, I've got it. New kitchen?
Tim

Michael wrote:
Hang on, I've got it. New kitchen?


And the winner is ...................

Not Michael  

Kitchen will be getting done 'on the cheap' by me.

Not an E61 M5 Touring - see my comments about big bills.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

You can get a lot of S-Max for the revised budget.....
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/class...d%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew&logcode=p
so long as you don't mind diesel

... or a newish E-class:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/class...rch-target=usedcars&logcode=p
Martin

Jaguar XKR
gooner

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
You can get a lot of S-Max for the revised budget.....
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/class...d%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew&logcode=p
so long as you don't mind diesel

... or a newish E-class:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/class...rch-target=usedcars&logcode=p


Not the most sporty or impractical choices there Chris. Although you could rip out the back seats of the S Max and get Resident Spammer to help you fit a V8 in their place!
Tim

Chris, did you miss the 'more sporty and less practical' post?

It has a hatchback.
Martin

Scirocco R

My last guess!
Michael

147 GTA
I'm not guessing anymore.
Tim

2 seats too many and wrong wheel drive.
Andy C

New/nearly new mx5?
Martin

Z4 Coupe, preferably the M

or a 370Z...as you do have a strange taste in cars sometimes.

I wasn't going to guess again.....damn you Tim!  
Tim

Martin wrote:
Z4 Coupe, preferably the M

I wasn't going to guess again.....damn you Tim!  


 

We went to have a look at a Navara (just for a look, not to buy as this garage don't have any used ones) but ended up test driving this :-
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/class...postcode=KY15%205UN&logcode=p

They have a silver 2013, 13 one with 13k miles coming in and assuming it's ok it's ours.
Martin

Too quick for my edit!
Tim

Martin wrote:
Too quick for my edit!




I told one of my mates we were considering a Nissan hatch as a commuter car and he thought we'd finally made a decent, sensible, mature choice.
He didn't ask any more questions, just wait till he sees what it is!
gooner

If you can get it for £20k it should be a god buy. The 350Z is meant to be the better drivers car but I think that is easily offset by the far superior interior of the 370Z. I've not heard of their chassis snapping in half either!
JohnC

I have very fond memories of the 350Z at PalmerSport many years ago and the instructor who positively encouraged as much sideways action as possible. I loved it and the controllability it had: this isn't a car to bite back, it just does as it's told.
Alf McQueef

Nice - an old school sports car, I always thought the 370Z slipped off the radar too quickly after some good initial reviews.

350Z's are excellent value now - if only they were lighter, they would make a good trackday car that hopefully would not need too much expense/work...
Tim

I think there have been a couple of used articles about it in EVO recently!
It's certainly not the first word in refinement and in 1st gear it whined like an old army truck (think black & white war films!) but it doesn't have to be in use every day.
PhilD

Has it got the rev match thingy? that's supposed to be good.

Mate just bought a 350 and loves it, though he gets single digit MPG at times  
gonnabuildabuggy

Alf McQueef wrote:
Nice - an old school sports car, I always thought the 370Z slipped off the radar too quickly after some good initial reviews.

350Z's are excellent value now - if only they were lighter, they would make a good trackday car that hopefully would not need too much expense/work...


I find myself regularly drawn to them.

Heart says old Mustang or 240/260/280Z

Head says new Mustang or 350Z
JohnC

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:


240/260/280Z



Does that bit not need to come with a serious wealth warning and a knowledge of all things rust?
gonnabuildabuggy

JohnC wrote:
gonnabuildabuggy wrote:


240/260/280Z



Does that bit not need to come with a serious wealth warning and a knowledge of all things rust?


Indeed, hence the head vs heart.

In truth a LHD import is really the only way to go with one of those I think unless you get a fully restored RHD model.

Solid Left hookers are around £10K if you buy well, for a RHD then you'd be looking at £15-£25K.

If I went that way I'd want an original LHD still on it's original paint so you can see where the problems are. The minute something has paint then you don't know what it's covering.

As I learnt the hard way on the FRV this week, and that's our own car!
gonnabuildabuggy

This is nice but a bit pricy.

http://www.cariconics.com/our-cars/datsun-240z/#&gid=1&pid=2
Tim

PhilD wrote:
Has it got the rev match thingy? that's supposed to be good.

Mate just bought a 350 and loves it, though he gets single digit MPG at times  


It does have it and I can confirm it works surprisingly well, even at cautious wet weather, test drive speeds!

It looks to be a car that holds its value reasonably well too if the 350 is anything to go by.
A friend knows someone who's had one of those for 8 or 9 years and at 130k miles it's only ever had routine maintenance and consumables which bodes well.

Certainly the 370 has a fairly solid, agricultural feel from the oily bits.
I know the engine is used extensively in pickups (presumably in a different state of tune) for the US market and I suspect the gearbox is similarly applied.
Tim

Well, at the weekend we went to look at the actual car rather than the one I linked to and the deed has been done.
We'll be collecting it on Wednesday  
PG

Tim wrote:
Certainly the 370 has a fairly solid, agricultural feel from the oily bits.


From my test drive a couple of years a I'd agree with that. Although I found that agricultural feel included an agricultural level of noise. Although that might have been a very knackered and thrashed to death fleet demo car as opposed to anything "normal".

But enjoy it. Proper old school, RWD motoring. A dying breed.
Roadsterstu

Tim wrote:
Well, at the weekend we went to look at the actual car rather than the one I linked to and the deed has been done.
We'll be collecting it on Wednesday  


Happy sideways Christmas!
Martin

Good stuff, I hope you enjoy it!
Nelson

Has someone been watching Fifth Gear a few weeks back with those 2 girls attempting to do a power slide in a 370Z then Tim?

Must admit that's a great choice, very jealous, looks right, right up my street that is.

Edit: please reassure us it doesn't come with the side stickers?
gonnabuildabuggy

Tim wrote:
Well, at the weekend we went to look at the actual car rather than the one I linked to and the deed has been done.
We'll be collecting it on Wednesday  



Pics please.

Being doing some research on these. Very jealous, it seems to match old skool 350Z driving with a more modern interior.

Enjoy!
Alf McQueef

I drove an early 350Z and I liked it - it would not suit me as a daily driver, but as a toy it would be excellent, and it sounds like the 370Z is better in all regards. The 350Z had a very pleasant handling balance and general attitude - it felt like a bigger, softer Caterham in that it told you what was going on, and was very sensitive to throttle and weight transfer changes. Which is to say you could easily tip it into a nice little bit of queefery, and then catch it easily, in a highly pleasant manner...
PhilD

Alf McQueef wrote:
I drove an early 350Z and I liked it - it would not suit me as a daily driver, but as a toy it would be excellent,


Maybe not you but it is an everyday sort of car no? Japanese reliability, decent boot etc etc. It is a bit odd you don't see more of them on the road.
gonnabuildabuggy

PhilD wrote:
Alf McQueef wrote:
I drove an early 350Z and I liked it - it would not suit me as a daily driver, but as a toy it would be excellent,


Maybe not you but it is an everyday sort of car no? Japanese reliability, decent boot etc etc. It is a bit odd you don't see more of them on the road.


2 seats and tiny boot comparitively.

An Audi TT makes more sense on most levels and you do see loads of them around.

Plus most people like the statement and Audi makes, whereas a Nissan 370Z is only an enthusiasts car.
Tim

The boot looks like a bit of a joke - we put 2 winter coats and a bag in it and it was half full but then if we need to carry much stuff we've got the M5 or the 320 (or the Tardis that is the Fiat Coupe!).

It'll be fine for normal commuting but I expect it'll be terrible if there's even the threat of snow or ice.

I showed a picture of one to a mechanic friend at the weekend and he said it looked pretty quick then asked if it was a 1.6 or 2 litre  


Nelson, I haven't seen Fifth Gear and there are NO stickers!  
PhilD

Tim wrote:


It'll be fine for normal commuting but I expect it'll be terribly good fun if there's even the threat of snow or ice.



FYP  
Tim

That's quite an apt FYP because it's cold and intermittently raining here, the rain looks a bit sleety and I'm collecting the car at 1.
I might just go straight home instead of coming back to work in case it snows later on  
PhilD

370z review

https://youtu.be/ldz4yIcL0o4

It is a cute little thing with a compact rear. As Alf said, good for a bit of fun.

oh and the car is ok as well.
Tim

Woo hoo!
Car now collected and kept shiny side up  
On cold, greasy roads I had the traction control light flashing all the way through 3rd gear at part throttle  
It feels at a similar performance level to the M5 - it has 80% of the power and weighs about 80% as much.
I think it's going to be twitchier than the M5 though.
It's already dirty.
Stuntman

Well done.  Now drive it smoothly and get it dirtier!
BeN

Oh blimey. Only just saw this.

Looks like an awesome deal. Have fun with it!
Boxer6

Stuntman wrote:
Well done.  Now drive it smoothly and get it dirtier!


+1.

And if you're passing mine any time soon, feel free to pop in and take me for a blast .... I mean, have a cuppa!!  
PhilD

Stuntman wrote:
Well done.  Now drive it smoothly and get it dirtier!


+1!

Is it black like the one you linked to?
JohnC

Think it is a fetching shade of silver

Tim wrote:

They have a silver 2013, 13 one with 13k miles coming in and assuming it's ok it's ours.
PhilD

JohnC wrote:
Think it is a fetching shade of silver

Tim wrote:

They have a silver 2013, 13 one with 13k miles coming in and assuming it's ok it's ours.


I should pay more attention  
Roadsterstu

Tim wrote:
Woo hoo!
Car now collected and kept shiny side up  
On cold, greasy roads I had the traction control light flashing all the way through 3rd gear at part throttle  
It feels at a similar performance level to the M5 - it has 80% of the power and weighs about 80% as much.
I think it's going to be twitchier than the M5 though.
It's already dirty.


Remember, sideways is the new forwards.
Twelfth Monkey

Many happy (and occasionally ginger) miles!
Alf McQueef

Hope its on decent tyres - could be a whole lot of fun on cold damp roads!! Enjoy!!
Tim

We've somehow managed to do nearly 1k miles in it already  

First(ish) impressions are that it's as fast as the M5 - 70BHP less but also lighter.
It's amusingly impractical too - a couple of winter coats and a couple of shopping bags pretty much fill the boot - and it's not got good visibility for reversing into a driveway from an angle, i.e. if you need to turn 90 degrees while reversing. It does have a camera but that's only any good when it's clear, not something you can rely on when it's wet!

It does a big flare of revs at cold startup and is fairly noisy on idle at that point but it soon settles down to something a bit quieter.

Suspension is of the chiropractor type although the car does feel very solid over sharp bumps, however lets just say that you wouldn't want to travel far in it if you need a pee

It's silver but the previous owner got the roof wrapped in gloss black so it probably looked(to them) a bit like a Jag F Type coupe.
I'll keep it like that for now but may take it off, at least it'll protect the paint from our busy birds.


Alf McQueef wrote:
Hope its on decent tyres - could be a whole lot of fun on cold damp roads!! Enjoy!!


It has 4 brand new tyres but they're from our budget friends in China.
I'll get something decent in due course.
I did have a scary moment. Coming off the Tay Bridge heading south there's a polished bit on the dual carriageway. I've noticed it in the wet before in the 530 and 320 - you could get them gently weaving under full power - but the 370 got a big dose of wheelspin (despite me being fairly careful) and did a big twitch so I drove the rest of that journey at granny speed.
Roadsterstu

Budget Chinese tyres, on that? Heresy.
gonnabuildabuggy

Roadsterstu wrote:
Budget Chinese tyres, on that? Heresy.


My thoughts too.

Usually smacks of someone who can afford the payments but not the maintenance, here's hoping that it was just the owner needing to put tyres on to sell it but therefore not caring what they were.

Unfortunately, much as I'd love one your review is making it sound a totally impractical proposition for me and Mrs. GBB.

Still waiting pics too!!
Martin

I would get decent tyres immediately.
Stuntman

So would I, assuming I had the spare cash and could perhaps  offset some of the costs by selling the existing tyres.  Otherwise perhaps a drift day to shorten their life?
Tim

The tyres were put on by the selling dealer.
I've priced up a set of Bridgestones and will order them soon.

It is fairly impractical although we'll see for definite in the summer - Mrs Tim has identified it as the car to take 'Dahn Sarth' for a few days.
You can probably fit a decent amount of stuff in the boot if you plan and of course you can roll up the load cover and stack it higher if you want too.

I'll take some pictures at the weekend.
It WON'T be cleaned beforehand though  
Roadsterstu

Ah. Dealer needed to put tyres on so just went for the cheapest round black rubbery things he could get. I suppose you get the choice of new tyres though. That, plus a proper Hunter alignment ought to make it feel fantastic.

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