| Archive for The Motor Forum talking cars since 2006 |
| Guitar Zero |
Trying to buy a new car is a royal pain in the chuteBeen looking around for a possible change of motorised conveyance - and it's enough to give even the most patient man the complete arsehole.First of all - CAP black book (the trade bible, which I can have a sniffter in because I know the right people) reckons my car is worth £10650 mint, or £10100 average. My car is mint save for the dent on the passenger door - so let's call it £10400. 1) ST mownchooooon - standard silver ST2 with privacy glass - list £22k, Drive the deal £18800 - privilege (after much boo hooing about only breaking even) £16900. Then I need to pony up £1100 for the whizz bang kit (RS arse fuck tronic - as it shall now be known). Seems fair enough, but they can't value my car (dude thinks an S60 is a hatchback FFS) and get it underwritten at £8550 for early September change. £8550 ! - cheeky get !. Also - big shock to see Focus mk2 door cards again - they look christmas cracker cheap. Doubts about resale after 1 year as well. So Focus plan is now bumwad. 2) New S80 D5 twin turbo manual - SE with leather and metallic. 20% discount plus I have my letter from Volvo Cars MD promising me another £1000 off any deal I make before Feb 2010 (after I kicked off about the S60 price realignment). So £29800 list becomes £ 22840. Car is lush - mega interior and just enough toyz. Still waiting for a value for the S60 - but some research has ruled out the S80. A) Manual S80s are about as popular as shoving a starving rat down your underpants B) A quick look on Autotrader reveals 2008 08 D5 SE geartonics being advertised at £15 to £17k by Volvo dealers - i.e, worth £13 to £15k in the trade. That's nearly 10 large in 12 months - AFTER a near 25% discount to start with on the favoured autos. Blinking flip - I was well up for some S80 action. 
3) New XF - 3.0d luxury with metallic is £31000 after staff discount....but A) It will still do £ 6 grand plus in the first year alone B) The staff discount is very poor on reflection and there are lots of complex work reasons as to why I won't buy an XF. 4) 2003 XJ6 - looks nice, miley but cheap as chips at a main Jag dealer. Unfortunately the dealer cannot be arsed to even call me back to talk about it - so feck it. I've lost interest now - I keep meaning to put Big Dee on autotrader, but I can't bring myself to do it - I don't what on earth could replace it. |
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| Blarno |
You not interested in going down the bangernomics route and saving for something really special for weekends? | ||||||
| Martin |
Is an S80 geartronic out of the question then?
Does it have to be brand new, because a 12 month old S80 sounds like it might be ideal? |
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| SpecB |
I know what you mean. I generally love shopping for cars but it can get tiresome if that sort of thing is the result.
Have you thought about trying to flog the S60 privately (after fixing the door of course)? It may give you more options as a cash buyer. |
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| Guitar Zero |
Geartronic is another £1400, but I don't want geartronic and the depreciation loss with geartronic is still horrific.
Not looking at E60 or E90 6 pot diesels : A) Because they are ridiculously overpriced - anywhere near £30k is XF territory B) Because the runflats spoil the drive. Bangernomics is an option - but I do 16k miles a year and can't be foofed looking at heaps or paying £3k for a nice example that's worth a grand tops. |
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| Martin |
09 reg S80 D5 SEs are less than £20k. If you got a brand new one now, will it be the same engine? | ||||||
| Guitar Zero |
12 month old S80 has the same engine in my S60 - and it doesn't have the upgraded chassis or interior of a new one. I only want an S80 if it's the new twin turbo one with the good chassis. |
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| Martin |
Simple then. Wait 6 months and get one of the new ones for less than £20k. |
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| Guitar Zero |
and it will still do another £7k in the following 6 to 9 months.
S80 out. |
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| Martin |
Fair enough.
Looks like you'll be sticking with what you've got then! I'm curious as to why you wouldn't support your employer and get an XF. Apart from the cost, which is quite a lot. |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
TBH there are plenty of cheap cars that will handle that. SOTW on Pistonheads the other week was a Saab 9000 and quite a few people were using them as hard working commuting cars. A Saab or Volvo would do a grand job for a few grand - as you know and I keep saying get one owned by some old guy who's looked after it and serviced it religiously. The 328 does circa 20K pa. about 400 or more per week, 3 days of 120 mile round trip - the big engine eats it. £2K cost, now worth £1K tops probably due to it's mileage but at 40p per mile then it's been paid for already. If it were me.....I'd keep what you've got and invest whatever you were thinking of spending on a weekend toy. I was going to suggest buying a nice 5yr old S60 from a Volvo Dealer to get 2 yrs warranty but the difference in cars value wouldn't be worth it. However......you've reminded me how much money is spunked away on cars every year...and the fact that promises on residuals are usually empty promises. Smug mode over 
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| Frank Bullitt |
The problem with the S60 S is that everyone wants the SE unless the S is at a bargain-basement price, so the values will always struggle a little. We've also recently been looking to sell the smart and part-ex prices are well and truly under book to piss-take levels.
However, I'd be tempted to try for a private sale and forget the smell of a new car for: Older S60 D5 - pocket the cash to keep that starved rat away from your goolags. Buy an early ST (£10K?) and mountune it. E39 530i. Keep the S60 as a cradle-grave motor. Remaps get something like 210bhp... All of your new-car options seem to have issues attached to them (either car or finance related) so why bother? |
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| Pkh72 |
GZ - with regard to the Mountune Kit on the ST, you mentioned something a couple of months back about it being a model in it's own right for insurance purposes.
Was it just called a Focus Mountune ST. I'm looking at ringing the insurance later to see what they'd stiff me for and i don't want to tell them it's chipped if i can help it. Any advice? |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
As an alternative to a new XF, late model S Type? | ||||||
| scamper |
MX5 or clio? | ||||||
| Guitar Zero |
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| Racing |
I do agree that it's difficult. I was very surprised how hard to was to draw up a list of cars that actually appealed sufficiently to go and fork out a large chunk of my savings on them.
How new does the car have to be? What about a lightly used Alpina D3? No runflats and a little bit different than your average E9x. |
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| Guitar Zero |
I don't do 4 cylinder - and D3s only have two year warranties from new.
I really like the Alfa 159, particularly the 2.4 JDTM TI - but have you seen how much a 6 month old one is ? - either Alfas have great residuals or dealers price the trousers off them. S-type - diesel, no chance (they are slow, thirsty and breaky). 3.0 - no thanks. The 4.2 nat asp is nice - but facelift ones are rare as hell. The R would be a giggle, but 20 mpg and silly brake part prices and general running costs put paid to that. I would also have to go for a pre 23rd March 2006 model or the road tax practically doubles. I may still look at an R, but the going rate for a 2006 55 plate at a main dealer is circa £16k - £17k. 12 months down the line - would I get £10k for it ?. Also - my current annual fuel bill (16k miles) at 42 mpg average is circa £1700 - at 20 mpg using 97 ron - it jumps to £3700. That is a serious amount of cash just for the privilege of sitting in a 400 bhp car on the motorway. I think the lesson to be learnt is that buying something slightly off kilter usually results in a serious pain in the wallet. |
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| Pkh72 |
Cheers GZ.
I'm with More Than at the moment and they won't touch anything but a standard ST, and i confused the shit out of the girl on the phone when i started mentioning Mountune and ST260 etc. i've done an online quote with Privilege using that 'Upgrade ST260' version and it came to a reasonable £380 for the year. I'll probably wait until the start of November when my insurance is due for renewal before i do anything. Anyhow, sorry for taking this off topic a tad. |
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| Guitar Zero |
If you go online - I bet More Than list it as a model because the above list is not specific to Privilege/Direct Line (who are 1 in the same by the way) | ||||||
| Pkh72 |
I've just been on the More Than site and done a Quotation and found that for my model year (2006) it only lists standard versions. If you put 2009 for the model year then it lists the Upgrade ST260 version, so maybe they treat mine as modified for some bizarre reason. |
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| Turbonutter |
How many miles has yours done chap? I'm on 165k on mine - like yours, it's probably only worth a grand ( even if I could find someone to buy it as mine isn't a coupe even )...but everything works fine, I like driving it and I don't feel too underprivileged. Hope it lasts me till I find a nice black/dark blue 325ti or similar |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
Ditto - I'm on 165K though it had a replacement block fitted at 30K so the block is 135K. Everything works fine, I like driving it, it doesn't owe me anything, I can leave it anywhere, it's fun when I want but a mileeater when I don't, it's cheap to service and to fix so it will do for a while longer. I like the idea of seeing if I can get to 200K but if I get a Blarno moment I can rest in the thought that I've had more than my money's worth. Much as I love cars, I've got a family to feed and have kids to pay to go through uni in a few years time and would like to pay off my mortgage before I retire so I now view car depreciation as a luxury. If I did replace it, it would probably be with something similar - 330, GTV, Prelude, 200SX, E34, E36 Cab, V64Motion as all of these are plenty good enough for £2-£3K. Plus I can justify a weekend toy. |
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| Racing |
I'd forgotten the Volvo had 5 cylinders......entirely sympathise on the 4-pot thing. What about a slightly older 159 (although I'm pretty sure 159 residuals are as poor as those of the 156)? Passat CC? |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
I reckon the 4.2 was the pick of the range. I drove one, along with an XKR and XJR on the same day, and the R models didn't seem nearly as much quicker as you'd expect given an extra 100 bhp. |
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| Jasper |
But it would be modified, wouldn't it? |
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| Jasper |
Why am I shouting? | ||||||
| Pkh72 |
It would be yes, but the bit that confuses me is that the new ST's, i am assuming, leave the factory in the same condition as mine and are then modified at the relevant dealer, so what's the difference? |
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| woof woof |
2004 4.2 ltr Auto S Type with 17k miles at a dealer for under £12k, just 25 miles from me. | ||||||
| TimR |
You could be there in 30 minutes Alan. 
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| "him" |
That is because only Chavs modify their cars after they have bought them, and so are forced to pay extortionate premiums as a consequence...
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| Pkh72 |
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| woof woof |
Tim, I do keep looking at Autotrader and when I see them on the road. My 4ltr was a good drive and I'm sure that I could live with
another but I'd miss having an open car. According to Autotrader, nationally there are 13 4.2 auto's with under 40k miles. |
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| Guitar Zero |
If I went styping - it would have to be an X204 (one with the ally bonnet, reprofiled rear end and other under the skin refinements).
There is a 2005 55 plate 4.2 n/a with 60k miles in pacific blue up for £9995 that's been on Autotrader for ages. However - this is the kiddy methinks, looks the nubs in black http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es...ture=2005&vehicleRegLetter=55 |
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| Racing |
Umm, I like a wooden dash in a car me, and Jaguar does some fine wood finishes, but I must admit that particular wood finish isn't one I could live with. Do you really like it?? | ||||||
| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
That is lovely - offer them your Volvo plus 2k. |
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| Guitar Zero |
It's bronze bird's eye maple - I don't mind it
I would probably see if I could get hold of a walnut inlay set from one of the highline models - but frankly I can't imagine a set popping up on e-bay. However nice the car is - it's rapidly approaching it's 4th birthday and it doesn't book at much more than £10k. Personally, I can't help thinking that the 60k car (which will have just had it's major service and some suspension bushes) is a better buy. |
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| woof woof |
That is a nice car although I'd go for a lower mileage example.
You can really chuck a Jag S about...go for it! |
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| PG |
Never mind the wood finish which is OK. Just change the steering wheel to black and that look's like job done. | ||||||
| Matt |
The grey wood in ours, whichever type it is, looks nice and I'm not a wood fan. | ||||||
| Martin |
That wood is awful, there are much better options.
Steering wheels should be black. |
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| Big Blue |
S Type facelift: great car.
Buy one. I think Pete has already come to that conclusion :-) |
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| Guitar Zero |
At the moment, I ain't buying jack squit
My dealings with the trade so far suggest that I have no chance of getting a fair and reasonable price for the S60. So, if I want to change cars my only option is to sell privately - but that then raises the issue of what I do in the interim having sold my old car and having to look/and or wait for delivery of the new one. The truth is, the S60 is so good at some things and just short of competitive at everything else that incurring massive additional cost and (eventual) depreciation for what amounts to a fractional improvement in overall ability is sheer folly. There are some great PCP and lease deals around at the moment, but various work and career issues mean I'm not comfortable locking myself into a 2 or 3 year contract where I will get boned to death if I want out for whatever reason. Also - whilst they protect you from residual collapse and the general unpleasantness of selling a car, they do clearly quantify how much you will be paying out over 3 years. Other cars I have considered in the past few weeks : New MK6 Golf GTI - 3 door with metallic and crooze : Nice car, but a piddling £300 discount still makes it £23k for a 4 cylinder Golf with cloth on 17s. New Passat CC 2.0 TFSI - metallic and crooze : Can get nearly £4500 off one of these - but thats still 20 big ones though, still 4 cylinder and quite clearly hugely unpopular with the public and the trade - last time I checked, there were 3 times as many 3.6 V6s than 2.0T petrols on Autotrader. Obviously there are loads of 1.8 TFSIs and diesels - but they are underpowered, tuneless mince and there is no way I would trade Thor's Hammer for one of those. Benzo C320 cdi sport - found a couple of 2008 08 plate ones up for 26 large at non franchised dealers - but I think that's some serious beans for something nearly 18 months old - what will it be worth in another 12 to 15 months ? XF 2.7d luxury - miley 08 plates are sub £25k, but given the severe reaction from the forum wheel nazis, I have my doubts about buying a peasant spec luxo chariot. Also, the 2.7d is a tad anaemic. |
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| the other ct |
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| Racing |
You can always get the car on shirt buttons and then buy some nicer wheels....not like they are the hardest part of a car to change! Oddly, I recall reading in the tests when it was launched that the 1.8T version of the Passat CC was the unsung star of the range. Not particularly quick but decently smooth, eager and well-matched to the car. If you'd consider a Mk6 Golf GTI, why not a nearly-new R32? Or an S3? Very similar to the Mk6 GTI but faster and with 4wd security. For £25k (well over £3k off list with options), Broadspeed can get you a brand new S3 3dr with metallic and "crooze". And they have niceties like leather, xenons and 18" inch alloys as standard. At that point, you've really got to want a Golf to buy the GTI. Esp since, on the subject of Golf-like things with the GTI engine, given you are a man who seems to like basic-spec cars, a standard A3 2.0T 3dr can be had with cruise and metallic for a whisker over £18k new from Broadspeed. |
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| Guitar Zero |
Racing - I'm just tight - weirdly, as my age and disposable income has increased, my propensity to waste it has decreased. I'm happy to blow a large-ish chunk of wodge on a car - providing I get most of it back after a year or two.
The Golf appealed, not just because it's apparently a great all round package, but because it holds on to money better than most. However, even I will conceed it looks a little nondescript on it's standard 17s and I suspect the lack of leather and DSG would just leave me with an undesirable version of a desirable car. In terms of value retentive hot hatchery, I don't think a staff discounted Mountune ST can be beat. |
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| Frank Bullitt |
Will they be doing a Nano GTI; you could get your name on the list for one! Keep the S60 and drive it 'till it dies (which it wont) |