Archive for The Motor Forum "We are mature men in the highest cadres of our careers"
 


       The Motor Forum Forum Index -> Your Motor
Racing Teatray

This looks like a cracking offer!

£7k deposit contribution on a new M140i direct from BMW dealer:

http://www.halliwelljones.co.uk/b...m135i-sports-hatch-finance-offer.
Chip Butty

http://www.petervardybmw.co.uk/finance/

Look at these deals - more interesting the lower down the list you go.

e.g - 535d m sport saloon - £469 deposit, £469 a month.

335d x drives are very cheap also.
cbeaks1

£13k deposit contributions.

Christ. Some lovely deals there though.
gonnabuildabuggy

There are some great deals there indeed.

As ever, I get tempted, then I multiply £400 x 48 and realise I could buy something pretty decent for that and own it at the end.

I think the 8,000 mile limit is a bit too low too, though the mileage excess aren't too bad.

My gut feel is that the industry is as hooked on PCP (and the volumes it generates) as the public is and the recent economic shock might be causing a few headaches amongst German manufacturers?
Martin

Had a quick look through and there are some excellent (535d) deals / deposit contributions and some not so good (740d).  The BMW configurator lets you create a finance offer at the end, so you could work out the cost with a higher annual mileage.
Roadrunner

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
There are some great deals there indeed.

As ever, I get tempted, then I multiply £400 x 48 and realise I could buy something pretty decent for that and own it at the end.

I think the 8,000 mile limit is a bit too low too, though the mileage excess aren't too bad.

My gut feel is that the industry is as hooked on PCP (and the volumes it generates) as the public is and the recent economic shock might be causing a few headaches amongst German manufacturers?


I agree with all of that.
Frank Bullitt

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
There are some great deals there indeed.

As ever, I get tempted, then I multiply £400 x 48 and realise I could buy something pretty decent for that and own it at the end.


I did the same thing, looked at a 320i touring for £350-ish pcm and thought 'not bad', especially with the £5k contribution but then realised for exactly the same money I could buy a 2-3 year old one and own it at the end of the deal rather than having to part with another £10-11k.

It's clearly set up, with a months deposit, for the company car evacuee

I had a look at Audi and noticed that the GMFV on their range is at least 15% higher than BMW suggest for comparable models.
Martin

Manufacturers have different approaches to final payments, from pitching it low to give you your next deposit to taking a hit at both ends of the deal to get the monthly payments down to a headline figure.  Porsche go for a low number and BMW are somewhere in the middle based on the Final balance in the 535d.

I'd look at it slightly differently.  Ffor the cost of a 2-3 year old second hand car in a colour/spec you haven't chosen, you could get a brand new car exactly as you want it!  

It's right about PCP deals being ideal for people exiting company car schemes, especially if they want to go straight into something they're used to.  It's different if you've owned cars for years and have built up to where you are and have equity in your car.   I don't know what I'll do next time, but it would probably only be a PCP if the interest rate made it the best option e.g 0% on the 7 series
gonnabuildabuggy

Martin wrote:
I'd look at it slightly differently.  Ffor the cost of a 2-3 year old second hand car in a colour/spec you haven't chosen, you could get a brand new car exactly as you want it!  


That's the theory, but....

I suspect all the extras' I'd want would load it quite a bit from the headline figure and be worth buttons at the end of the deal.

I tend to look at it the other way now and look for a "loaded" used car where someone else has taken the hit.

The Mini had Pano Roof, Half Leather, Xenons' and quite a few other tasty bits that I didn't pay for, the Merc even more including Designo leather.

The finance cost on these does make them attractive though, when I came out of a company car the Audi dealers were looking at around 8% as the interest rate and wouldn't budge on it. As soon as I decided to finance it from a separate source it made more sense to buy used anyway.
Frank Bullitt

Martin wrote:
I'd look at it slightly differently.  Ffor the cost of a 2-3 year old second hand car in a colour/spec you haven't chosen, you could get a brand new car exactly as you want it!  


That's epic man-maths as it doesn't account for paying the final amount off!

I'd expect a 6-7 year old 320 touring to be worth £8k ish, that would be yours.  Of course owning our car we have about £7-7.5k in it which if buying a 320 touring means I'd only need a loan of £220pcm (ish) or for £350pcm I could probably get a nice spec 5-series and own that after 4 years!
gonnabuildabuggy

All this got me to thinking what my current fleet is costing me!

The FRV is the most expensive car I've owned in terms of overall depreciation.

It cost us £13,500 and I reckon it's worth £2,000 now. So that's a loss of £11,500 over 11.5 yrs, £1,000 per annum or just £83 per month. That was a cash purchase so I'm missing the cost of financing that cash, as I am on the others too.

The Mini looks to be worth circa £6K in a private sale, so a loss of £500 per annum or so and the MX5 is now appreciating I reckon.

When it's your own cash rather than an allowance you do think about it a lot harder.

All purchases seem to be weighed up against early retirement right now.
Martin

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Martin wrote:
I'd look at it slightly differently.  Ffor the cost of a 2-3 year old second hand car in a colour/spec you haven't chosen, you could get a brand new car exactly as you want it!  


That's epic man-maths as it doesn't account for paying the final amount off!

I'd expect a 6-7 year old 320 touring to be worth £8k ish, that would be yours.  Of course owning our car we have about £7-7.5k in it which if buying a 320 touring means I'd only need a loan of £220pcm (ish) or for £350pcm I could probably get a nice spec 5-series and own that after 4 years!


Well worth the extra £100!

I do use man maths a lot, but only to improve the 'value' of something, never to kid myself about the true cost.

I've always been really good with numbers, I know exactly what each car costs, both annually and over the expected ownership period.  I have a budget for each (plus a lot of other things), which is another reason why I don't like surprises, it means I'd have to dip into another pot.   I've already got a spreadsheet with various options for a replacement, all with an annual budget.  I could make buying new with a decent deposit (equivalent to the value at the end so no saving for next deposit) work next time, but that could change depending on interest rates, deals, priorities etc.

There will still be man maths at the end!

GBB - even when you have an allowance, it's still your own money you're spending.   Easier to justify though, like ALF saying his mileage allowance covers V8 fuel costs when it's the same as it was before with a more economical car (not a criticism, great man maths that should be applauded!)
gonnabuildabuggy

Martin wrote:

GBB - even when you have an allowance, it's still your own money you're spending.   Easier to justify though, like ALF saying his mileage allowance covers V8 fuel costs when it's the same as it was before with a more economical car (not a criticism, great man maths that should be applauded!)


Indeed, but far easier to justify. Hence I ran an 18 month old Convertible with my allowance when a 10 yr old Mondeo would be the prudent option.

With my mortgage being paid off being in site then it's getting harder to reconcile large automotive purchases. The cost of the BMW deals over 4 yrs is pretty much what it would take to clear it so a different form of man maths.

I could justify £20K on something exciting but not a 3 or 5 series where I think the magic would wear off 6 months into the 48 month period and of course you are then stuck for another 42 months before changing.

Besides which I've managed to walk to work 4 days this week, and only drove to drop my MX5 off at the garage on Weds (rusted drop link bolt) so any car purchase really is a luxury right now.
Frank Bullitt

Martin wrote:
I've always been really good with numbers, I know exactly what each car costs, both annually and over the expected ownership period.  I have a budget for each (plus a lot of other things), which is another reason why I don't like surprises, it means I'd have to dip into another pot.   I've already got a spreadsheet with various options for a replacement, all with an annual budget.  I could make buying new with a decent deposit (equivalent to the value at the end so no saving for next deposit) work next time, but that could change depending on interest rates, deals, priorities etc.


I have something similar except the outgoings don't include a payment for a car, the problem is if I ever introduce such an outgoing my saving reduces by a commensurate amount - which I don't like! Instead I have a regular chunk go out every few years for a car purchase. Having a spreadsheet that shows my mortgage will be paid down in a reasonably short time feels nicer than a brand new BMW on thee drive!

Martin wrote:
GBB - even when you have an allowance, it's still your own money you're spending.   Easier to justify though, like ALF saying his mileage allowance covers V8 fuel costs when it's the same as it was before with a more economical car (not a criticism, great man maths that should be applauded!)


True, but if you used to get a company car and instead get an allowance (or have got one for the first time) then there is an immediate increase out of which you can justify a payment (and a pay a little more of you want or pay less if you'd prefer to trouser some) - if you didn't have the money but decide to create a regular outgoing it's a lot more difficult to justify - see my comment above.
Chip Butty

Without this descending into a new vs used Pistonheads style snoozefest, the fact is that some of these deals are incredible and represent a very cheap way of getting into some very expensive cars.

Yes - some of those deals have robust deposits - but quite a few don't and some of them make choosing the lesser powered models a nonsense. This explains why every 3 and 4 series on our new development is a 335d or a 435d.

PCPs are purposely designed to keep you on the finance treadmill and generate new car through put and decent approved used stock. A decent retailer will never, ever let a customer run to term on a PCP because they will offer a new deal the minute you hit equity parity, or where the manufacturer VM can offset the negative equity balance to get you in a new car for the same monthly payment. GFMVs are purposely set low enough to enable this.

So, taking the 535d as the example - you will only pay BMW £23k for 4 years and 32k miles use if you intend to return the car after 4 years...but what are you going to drive then ? What actually happens is that anywhere between 24 and 36 months, the dealer will call offering a better model for a small monthly payment increase or an equivalent new car for no monthly increase.
Alf McQueef

I had a look at that - there is a deposit contribution of over £9k for a 440i Gran CoupeM Sport. Monthly payment £479 - but over 48 months, also there is a £2k customer deposit which means payments are actually effectively £521. It sounds good - but I'm not sure if that includes VAT or not, and the mileage is 8k. When I looked at this before, the prices were a LOT higher on 20k - As CB says, low mileage cars are good for the approved used scene so being encouraged.

My brain only really takes in the total paid over the X years, which usually tends to put me off these deals, and off buying new. If you can accept the odd  bill (really big ones can themselves be offset with a warranty) then you can have something very tasty for the same money over X years.

However, especially if you are happy in something fairly "on trend" and generic, these deals are a great deal of car for the monthly cost, especially if you take into account the opportunity to get into something newer during the term, for no more money (though if it always needs another "contribution" it is actually costing more). When I last changed, 330d Tourings were incredible value even at higher mileages. The problem being, I didn't want one...

One concern I would have would be economic conditions. What happens if used car values take a dive? Like in 2008/9? I imagine the "same cost to upgrade" goes out the window, and any methods of taking extra money from you at the end of the deal will be full employed then... You would also lose more value on a SH car you had bought, but the lease deals tend to be more than the total SH cost over 3 years+, and you'll always get something back for the metal, even if driving high miles.
Frank Bullitt

Chip Butty wrote:
Without this descending into a new vs used Pistonheads style snoozefest, the fact is that some of these deals are incredible and represent a very cheap way of getting into some very expensive cars.

Yes - some of those deals have robust deposits - but quite a few don't and some of them make choosing the lesser powered models a nonsense. This explains why every 3 and 4 series on our new development is a 335d or a 435d.

PCPs are purposely designed to keep you on the finance treadmill and generate new car through put and decent approved used stock. A decent retailer will never, ever let a customer run to term on a PCP because they will offer a new deal the minute you hit equity parity, or where the manufacturer VM can offset the negative equity balance to get you in a new car for the same monthly payment. GFMVs are purposely set low enough to enable this.

So, taking the 535d as the example - you will only pay BMW £23k for 4 years and 32k miles use if you intend to return the car after 4 years...but what are you going to drive then ? What actually happens is that anywhere between 24 and 36 months, the dealer will call offering a better model for a small monthly payment increase or an equivalent new car for no monthly increase.


I think we all get this, it's then working out how appealing that is to each of us.
Martin

Thats exactly it and that's why we make different choices.  Car finance isn't top of our expenditure list, it's behind holidays and the mortgage.  Holidays are at number one this year and next (at least), but that's what we look forward to and enjoy more than anything and we want to enjoy life while we can.  While still making sure we have reasonable pensions and have paid the house off before we retire.  

The prices in the links will include VAT and increasing the mileage makes a much bigger difference on the monthly cost of some cars than others.
gonnabuildabuggy

Frank Bullitt wrote:
I think we all get this, it's then working out how appealing that is to each of us.


Exactly. Cracking deals if you want a new car, it's just where that sits in your priorities list.

For me, much as I love cars, I do very little driving nowadays so spending £400pcm to have something sit on my drive makes very little sense, plus if I play my cards right then I could be in a position to semi-retire in a few years rather than have to worry about working fully into my late 60's.

The other factor I always bear in mind is potential changes in circumstances. I've no idea what the cost to quit is on these schemes if you find yourself forced into a company car, or out of work for an extended period (or just not needing a newish car) The last thing you want to have to do is take the wrong job just to keep money coming in for what is truthfully a luxury.

If I was in say Martin's shoes, I would probably jump at one of those deals.
Martin

It would be parked up as much as yours if I could only do 8,000 miles a year!  That's pretty much what I have already, 5 figure discount along with a decent APR and final value.
Frank Bullitt

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
The other factor I always bear in mind is potential changes in circumstances. I've no idea what the cost to quit is on these schemes if you find yourself forced into a company car, or out of work for an extended period (or just not needing a newish car) The last thing you want to have to do is take the wrong job just to keep money coming in for what is truthfully a luxury.


You always have the option of buying the car then selling it, either creating a small profit or accepting a loss. The deals which don't look very attractive are the non-ownership deals because if you don't take anther from the same manufacturer (or dealer group) you will get shagged for anything that needs doing and I suspect there is no option to settle within the deal.
Tim

Alf McQueef wrote:
One concern I would have would be economic conditions. What happens if used car values take a dive? Like in 2008/9? I imagine the "same cost to upgrade" goes out the window, and any methods of taking extra money from you at the end of the deal will be full employed then... You would also lose more value on a SH car you had bought, but the lease deals tend to be more than the total SH cost over 3 years+, and you'll always get something back for the metal, even if driving high miles.


I don't think it would matter - its clear that BMW, as an example, are already providing massive support to the used price as well as the initial contribution.
Frank Bullitt

Tim wrote:
Alf McQueef wrote:
One concern I would have would be economic conditions. What happens if used car values take a dive? Like in 2008/9? I imagine the "same cost to upgrade" goes out the window, and any methods of taking extra money from you at the end of the deal will be full employed then... You would also lose more value on a SH car you had bought, but the lease deals tend to be more than the total SH cost over 3 years+, and you'll always get something back for the metal, even if driving high miles.


I don't think it would matter - its clear that BMW, as an example, are already providing massive support to the used price as well as the initial contribution.


I think used prices went south as there was a similar reduction in new car prices - if manufacturers are struggling to sell new metal then they'll want to make sure the deal works to keep you in a new 3xx every 2-3 years.

       The Motor Forum Forum Index -> Your Motor
Page 1 of 1
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum