woof woof
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Tax us off booze????There's just been a bit on the news about some pressure group or other that wants to see the government introduce a minimum price per unit of alcohol to get us to drink less for our own good. Obviously this new minimum price will be higher than it is now.
They told the sad story of a young woman who drunk herself to death and a darts player who nearly did.
Although these are indeed sad stories I can't see how increasing the tax will save anyone. If anything all it'll do is drive drinkers to buy the cheapest alcohol they can, smuggle more good stuff in, brew their own or drink anti freeze, screen wash or hair spray.
BTW - A professional darts player put off by the price going up a bit? Come on, that's fantasy land.
Why the fook should I pay one penny more for my alcohol just because some idiot on a pressure group thinks that increasing the tax on alcohol will save lives?
If people don't realise and accept that drinking until it comes out of your nose day after day and week after week just might be bad for you maybe they should be left to their own devices?
For God sake...bloody nanny state! 
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Humphrey The Pug
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What it needs is a change of culture not increased alcohol costs, the people that want to drink themselves into oblivion or who enjoy getting completely wasted at the weekend will always find a way no matter the cost
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Boxer6
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| Humphrey The Pug wrote: | | What it needs is a change of culture not increased alcohol costs, the people that want to drink themselves into oblivion or who enjoy getting completely wasted at the weekend will always find a way no matter the cost |
As one who worked in an inner-city alcohol unit in a past life, I heartily concur.
Witness one chap who, on being diagnosed with oesophegeal varices (basically, exposed and inflamed blood vessels inside your throat, which can rupture at any moment leading to almost certain death) then discharged himself AMA to go back to his 2-bottles-of-Vodka-a-day habit.
As far we knew, he lasted less than a month.
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Mike Amos
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Rather a misguided attempt to get on the bandwagon aka the 'we know what's best for all of you so stop thinking' fraternity. Education will prevent most of what we see today, that and decent gobs of discipline. Most kids/teens seem to have no idea of responsibility or fear of discipline.
Another excuse to tax us some more?
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Gooner
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Alcohol has generally gone up in price over the last few years but it hasn't really changed anything. Putting up the price and putting out shock adverts doesn't solve the problem. We've already seen that strategy fall flat on it's face with smoking. It's a nightmare finding somewhere to smoke these days but people still do. The only way it will change will be if we have a change in our culture, but will that really happen. Trying to create a "cafe culture" in this country just means more cheap plastic patio furniture for the drunks to chuck about. (Or in the case of my youth a big old picnic table for four drunk lads to wander off with through Bournemouth and dump in the back of their mates escort before falling asleep and wandering where the hell it come from in the morning!)
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simonp
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Didn't work with ciggies. What are they now, 5 quid a pack? People are still buying them!
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Rodge
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It doesn't work. The tax on booze is much higher here than in the UK and last week, the Irish were declared as the heaviest drinkers in the world.
And it wasn't referring to us being fat.
People drive up to Northern Ireland just to buy drink, even restaurants and pubs are going up to Sainsburys to get their stock- it's cheaper to buy Retail in the UK than it is Wholesale in Ireland.
Tullamore Dew is more expensive in Ireland than it is in Spain- It's made in Ireland and exported around the world.
Anyway, it's an excuse to bring in more money as they know that drinking is such a large part of the culture now that people won't get rid of it.
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Roadsterstu
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Well, it gives them an excuse to tax us some more I suppose.
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Boxer6
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| Roadsterstu wrote: | | Well, it gives them an excuse to tax us some more I suppose. |
As if they need an excuse any more!! 
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DradusContact
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Keep the tax the same, but increase the penalty for those who mis-use it. Drunk and disorderly should carry a minimum sentence of say, 1 week.
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woof woof
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Law and order and punishment of offenders?
Radical stuff but surely that'll exclude them from society, marginalize them and lock them into a spiral of self damaging behaviour?
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DradusContact
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Crime and punishment my good man. Just like my controversial 'chopping their hands off' policy, if you knew the punishment would be so severe you would think twice before doing it wouldnt you?
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TimR
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I know someone who owns a few nightclubs and he's been going mad over the last couple of years due to the 'binge drinking culture' and the way drinking establishments are targeted by the authorities.
He says most people arrive already pissed having started their night out at home drinking fine, cheap booze sourced from supermarkets.
Whatever prices he offers at happy hour type things are still more expensive than what people are paying in Tesco, etc.
In addition it appears nights out start much later.
When I were a lad we went out on Friday/Saturday for about 7:30/8pm and were sober when we got there but now it appears a night out starts at 10:30/11pm and the participants are already fairly well hammered by that time.
Minimum prices per unit of alcohol will only work if they're applied across the board and somehow I imagine that the supermarket lobby will be a very powerful voice against that.
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woof woof
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I hate the whole idea of this as I'm pretty sure that it'll have minimal if any effect on either health or crime, which is surely what drunken behaviour is. I'm pretty convinced that all this will do is cause people to simply spend more money and I can't see why I should as I've never been involved in drink related law breaking (other than being a victim) and my drinking isn't as far as I know a health hazard.
I wonder what current thinking on health is? It used to be said that a moderate intake was actually good for you.
All this is is nanny state obsessiveness meeting an opportunity for increasing taxation. I hate it. Yuk.
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Humphrey The Pug
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If they really wanted to stop all of this binge drinking, drunken behaviour etc a zero tolerance policy needs to be put in place.
Currently it is illegal to be drunk and disordaly but what is done about it, nothing, it's illegal for an under 18 y.o to have alcohol, what's done about it, nothing, if a shop or pub sells alcohol to an under 18 y.o they get a slap and a second chance.
We need more Police on the streets and proper sentancing which will be carried out, unfortunately it's a proplem that has spiralled out of control to such an extent that the resources are just not there to cope, it's years of successive soft Policing and sentancing and namby pamby liberal left thinking the same reasons behind the lack of respect in the young and the "you can't do anything about it" culture.
What do you do?
No hand chopping DC!!
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Big TC
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Personally, as one who drinks very little, more tax on booze won't affect me in the slightest. Nor will it make a half-penny's worth of difference to Britain's drinking culture.
I've never tried to stop my kids from drinking, but have tried to install in their conciousness that they don't have to get shit-faced to have a good time. I've suggested reasonable limits (self-imposed, of course) and that they act responsibly.
Didn't work for Pip when he went on his first foreign holiday with a bunch of mates.... Peer pressure (he claims) had him on the lash from tea-time onwards, till about 5am or so....
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Twelfth Monkey
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It's interesting, if unsurprising, that the things most heavily taxed are those that we cannot really do without (cars) or may have some degree of addiction to (cigarettes & alcohol.)
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woof woof
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"Currently it is illegal to be drunk and disordaly but what is done about it, nothing..."
Considering our leaders eagerness to increase taxation whenever possible I really can't understand why they haven't got to grips with fines, other than motoring. They could be issuing fines and as bad people don't pay fines they could just take the money directly out of their benefits / wage. That should be a low cost cash cow.
Actually, I know why they wont do this...the drunken darlings will be on the phone to the social threatening to hurt themselves or their kids if their booze money is diverted to the government. So, the innocent and law abiding will just have to carry on paying.
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Humphrey The Pug
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| woof woof wrote: | "Currently it is illegal to be drunk and disordaly but what is done about it, nothing..."
Considering our leaders eagerness to increase taxation whenever possible I really can't understand why they haven't got to grips with fines, other than motoring. They could be issuing fines and as bad people don't pay fines they could just take the money directly out of their benefits / wage. That should be a low cost cash cow.
Actually, I know why they wont do this...the drunken darlings will be on the phone to the social threatening to hurt themselves or their kids if their booze money is diverted to the government. So, the innocent and law abiding will just have to carry on paying. |
That's the thing Alan, us motorists are targeted heavily as by and large we are a law abiding lot that don't complain and just cough up.
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TimR
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I'd be quite happy to see tax on booze increased a bit IF that would help solve the problem but I don't really think it would.
Perhaps instead we could get plod to target certain areas and lift everyone who was drunk & disorderly and hit them with, say, a £60 fine.
From TV coverage it would be a pretty easy thing to do (ignoring the bolshiness of the 'victims') due to apparent streetfulls of drunks and if enough people were done it would be self financing.
I suppose it would be a similar concept to camera vans i.e. target a place and nick everyone who breaks the law in it.
I think a direct action like that would be more effective - you'd get hit for £60 directly - rather than simply adding a percentage to each drink consumed.
Obviously the law would probably need to be amended to make it possible to carry this out and make the whole process as simple as taking a couple of photos and sending out a letter as happens in speeding cases.
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DaveGibson
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I wonder if the legal process has resulted in some disconnection between the crime and the punishment. It used to be that you got yourself arrested, spent the night in the cells, went before the beak in the morning and, if convicted, got fined. Now, it's bail, social reports, and delay before getting told not to do it again or we'll really hit you with a ton of bricks (i.e. tell you again not to do it again).
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'G'
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The tax system is now being used as mass retrospective punishment. Not what it's there for.
If more funds are required by the Government, these issues are seized upon and used to fuel support for 'Aid' in combating such problems.
Nothing will change.
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woof woof
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"Nothing will change."
I suppose over the vastness of time few things do change. The masses have always been ruled by an elite of one sort or another and have always been condescended to and milked to one degree or another.
Over a more short term timescale things can and do change, indeed they should change. Underwear should be changed frequently, for example. Who would argue against that? The style of underwear worn may change over time, boxer shorts may be in one season, briefs the next, whilst in some social circles thongs may be the in thing, although that's the trouble with thongs, sometimes they are simply too far in. One thing that may never change is the feel of rubber against your skin. Some use a little talc, some do not. It'd be a funny old world if we were all the same.
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PG
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As already pointed out, countries with higher taxes on booze than us have as bad drink problems. What they probably don't have is two things -
A total disconnect between crime and punishment. Having seen a couple of programmes about policing at night in binge drinking areas, what most of the perpetrators need is a good smack in the head with a night stick - and
A huge corporate machine (= the supermarkets) knocking out the stuff at margins that would be totally unsustainable in any other business, which encourages people to get pissed at home and then go out. But it's all the pubs / clubs fault of course.
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'G'
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| woof woof wrote: | "Nothing will change."
I suppose over the vastness of time few things do change. The masses have always been ruled by an elite of one sort or another and have always been condescended to and milked to one degree or another. |
As I said. Nothing will change.
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Roadsterstu
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How about the authorities applying some common sen...
...oh, sorry. How silly of me to suggest it.
As already said - NOTHING will change, other than tax being increased. The idea is there now and it will be irresistable to any government.
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