Twelfth Monkey
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Send in the clowns?'I loved the letter in this week’s mag to the effect that current Lamborghinis are ‘warmed-over Audi-u-likes’. On the first hand, does anyone who knows the first thing about cars really believe that the likes of the LP560 and Superleggera fit that description? And the author’s judgement that the Murcielago SV is the first ‘proper’ Lambo in ages is based upon idle speculation, as you haven’t driven it, let alone he.
Underlying twaddle like this is the faintly racist notion that the Germans don’t do ‘passion’, but I’d contend that Audi has done a far better job of allowing a foreign subsidiary to play to its strengths than VW has with Bentley and BMW did with Rover. I suspect that a modern Lamborghini is a vastly better thing to own and drive than its pre-Audi output, even if servicing costs are still somewhat ruinous.
So go no, admit it: you sometimes publish stuff you know to be twaddle just to encourage debate. Could be argued that if you publish this, it’ll be for that very reason…'
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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Re: Send in the clowns? | Twelfth Monkey wrote: | | So go no, admit it: you sometimes publish stuff you know to be twaddle just to encourage debate. Could be argued that if you publish this, it’ll be for that very reason…' |
Exactly - all magazine letters pages are havens for tw*ts, quite frankly. I remember all the outraged Villeneuve fans crawling out from under their rocks to write to Autosport when BAR finally managed to sack him.
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Gooner
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+1 what an absolute tit! Okay there are many components in modern Lambos that might be sourced from Audi but last time I checked they haven't moved design and production to Ingolstadt.
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Frank Bullitt
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Re: Send in the clowns? | Twelfth Monkey wrote: | | ...but I’d contend that Audi has done a far better job of allowing a foreign subsidiary to play to its strengths than VW has with Bentley and BMW did with Rover. |
Agreed, although BMW learned from the Rover farce; Rolls Royce and MINI kinda prove that.
If anything, the Author has got their arse about face; the R8 is a Gallardo on the cheap (in price only it would seem).
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Nice Guy Eddie
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I can understand why the guy has a problem with many new Lambos, I for one quite miss the mental Lambos of old. Its one reason why I have little interest in the Gallardo. Its also a shame that great chunks of Audi A4 are found in the Gallardo, it would take a lot of effort to make things feel more bespoke. Having said all that I'm no fan of that Reventon thing either.
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Twelfth Monkey
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Having been driven around Bruntingthorpe in a Gallardo (including a corner taken at 125 mph), I can assure you that the driving experience is utterly unlike any A4, even one bearing an RS badge. The lunacy is still there, but the cars are now properly developed. That's progress in my book. Contrast with J May's (not J Mays's) encounter with the childhood dream Countach on TG a while back, which he considered to be utter crap. Despite similar childhood delusions, I suspect he's right.
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Mark
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Re: Send in the clowns?The letter does sound like drivel.
| Twelfth Monkey wrote: | | I’d contend that Audi has done a far better job of allowing a foreign subsidiary to play to its strengths than VW has with Bentley |
They’re all working under the same brolly, surely? I doubt VW lets Audi run Lamborghini without some major input of its own – from engineering and from the boardroom. And, I’m sure Audi have a lot of input going the other way into Bentley (with Audi making VAG’s premium models before Bentley came along). Maybe Lamborghini gave/offered VAG a much better base to work with than Bentley did, hence the varying success between the two.
As Chris says, BMW have done quite a job with Rolls Royce (just the Silver Seraph) and MINI which was virtually a blank piece of paper when it began its modern life.
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Twelfth Monkey
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I had knowingly left RR & Mini out of it! I think Bentley and Lamborghini do bear comparison, though. I suspect that the average buyer of a pre-VW Bentley would view the Conti as a dreadful arriviste, whereas the average pre-Audi Lambo buyer is probably glad of the changes brought about.
Not that I know any of either, but you get my drift.
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franki68
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Re: Send in the clowns? | Twelfth Monkey wrote: | 'I loved the letter in this week’s mag to the effect that current Lamborghinis are ‘warmed-over Audi-u-likes’. On the first hand, does anyone who knows the first thing about cars really believe that the likes of the LP560 and Superleggera fit that description? And the author’s judgement that the Murcielago SV is the first ‘proper’ Lambo in ages is based upon idle speculation, as you haven’t driven it, let alone he.
Underlying twaddle like this is the faintly racist notion that the Germans don’t do ‘passion’, but I’d contend that Audi has done a far better job of allowing a foreign subsidiary to play to its strengths than VW has with Bentley and BMW did with Rover. I suspect that a modern Lamborghini is a vastly better thing to own and drive than its pre-Audi output, even if servicing costs are still somewhat ruinous.
So go no, admit it: you sometimes publish stuff you know to be twaddle just to encourage debate. Could be argued that if you publish this, it’ll be for that very reason…' |
What you say is true,they are now great cars and much the better for it in the real world.I would say though having driven 2 gallardos and the ferrari 430 the ferrari is a far more exciting car by quite a distance imo.Also a friend who had a diablo and then recently a gallardo ...although he said the gallardo was great,he said to me he loved the diablo ,respected the gallardo,and I sort of know what he means ,the gallardo is closer to the 997tt than to the ferrari 430 in the way it drives.
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Frank Bullitt
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| Twelfth Monkey wrote: | | ...whereas the average pre-Audi Lambo buyer is probably glad of the changes brought about. |
Do you think there is such a thing as an 'average' pre-Audi Lambo driver? I'm pretty sure there isn't. Lamborghini have always been as mad as a box of frogs and the cars a real trial, which is what most old-school Lambo owners would want. If you asked the current Gallardo drivers if they'd prefer asthmatic A/C, zero vissibility and a driving position to rival a childs roller-coaster, then I guess they would probably keep the Gallardo, but plenty of pre-Audi Lambo drivers miss the idiosyncracy whilst accepting the later ones are a 'better' car.
One would hope traditional Bentley owners refuse to have their cars share the workshop with a Conti or Silver Spud come service-time. Every time I see a Conti, Faithless' 'Fatty Bo' starts rolling round my mind. Can't think why...
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Twelfth Monkey
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| Frank Bullitt wrote: | | If you asked the current Gallardo drivers if they'd prefer asthmatic A/C, zero vissibility and a driving position to rival a childs roller-coaster, then I guess they would probably keep the Gallardo, but plenty of pre-Audi Lambo drivers miss the idiosyncracy whilst accepting the later ones are a 'better' car. |
Then they are nutbags. Plain and simple!
I must admit that I've never subscribed to the view that a few fundamental flaws add up to 'character', though. Dull old me, eh?
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Frank Bullitt
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Oh, I dunno - we are slightly blind to the flaws in our own cars or the ones we cherish. The smart is excellent in spite of the flaws and I would imagine the Countach et-al would be the same (in a larger scale!).
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Blarno
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Having driven a Diablo SV, I can only assume that anything is progress. The one I drove overheated, had faulty aircon and an array of warning lights ablaze on the dash.
A little perspective is needed, maybe. Any modern supercar is still utterly mental compared to most of our daily drivers. (Franki, Dr H and Twelfth excluded.)
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Twelfth Monkey
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The R8 V10 vs LP560 in this week's mag is interesting, doubly so in the light of this thread.
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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| Blarno wrote: | | Any modern supercar is still utterly mental compared to most of our daily drivers. (Franki, Dr H and Twelfth excluded.) |
Oh, the GT3 is mental alright!
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Frank Bullitt
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| Twelfth Monkey wrote: | | I must admit that I've never subscribed to the view that a few fundamental flaws add up to 'character', though. Dull old me, eh? |
Actually (racks brains) isn't the 911 one of your favourite cars?
In terms of 'fundamental flaws' I think spending the best part of 40 years making sure the engine in the wrong place doesn't keep grave-diggers in business probably counts...
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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Given modern tyre and suspension technology, I don't see why you shouldn't have a rear-engined car now. Is hanging it out the back any worse than hanging it out the front, a la Audi? And given pedestrian safety regs, there's a lot to be said for moving the engine to the back, especially for small cars.
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Twelfth Monkey
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Your brain will need a bigger search than that, Chris. I always thought that I'd have a 911 if I was ever in a position to, but the appeal has waned as this happened. Not that I dis' your GT3 Nick. I think it's the most appealing of all Porsche's cars.
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Frank Bullitt
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| Twelfth Monkey wrote: | | Your brain will need a bigger search than that, Chris. I always thought that I'd have a 911 if I was ever in a position to, but the appeal has waned as this happened. Not that I dis' your GT3 Nick. I think it's the most appealing of all Porsche's cars. |
So what you are saying is that when they couldn't make them go round corners without visiting the hedge they had appeal, but now they have been 'sorted' the appeal has diminished...perhaps some of the flaws being ironed-out has also seen some of the character disappear
I shall say nothing else :zip:
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Twelfth Monkey
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Actually nowt to do with the cars' abilities changing, as otherwise you'd be right in pointing out my contradiction. I just don't want the 911 package as I once did, and I think the incremental evolutions in styling are probably the main reason.
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TimR
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| Twelfth Monkey wrote: | | Actually nowt to do with the cars' abilities changing, as otherwise you'd be right in pointing out my contradiction. I just don't want the 911 package as I once did, and I think the incremental evolutions in styling are probably the main reason. |
Perhaps the latter plus a little maturity as well?
A friend in his early 40s had a 997tt and said he felt like a cock every time he got out of it and has happily replaced it with an RS6 estate.
I should hasten to add that while I agree with how he feels about that car (and normal 911s in general) in my mind there is something different about the specialist versions like Nick's one 
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franki68
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| TimR wrote: | | Twelfth Monkey wrote: | | Actually nowt to do with the cars' abilities changing, as otherwise you'd be right in pointing out my contradiction. I just don't want the 911 package as I once did, and I think the incremental evolutions in styling are probably the main reason. |
Perhaps the latter plus a little maturity as well?
A friend in his early 40s had a 997tt and said he felt like a cock every time he got out of it and has happily replaced it with an RS6 estate.
I should hasten to add that while I agree with how he feels about that car (and normal 911s in general) in my mind there is something different about the specialist versions like Nick's one |
Is that because he couldn't get out of it ? It is sad seeing a great car pull up and some balding 55 year old 20 stone guy spending 10 minutes trying to get out of it.;).(don't see what his problem could be,911s are so common no one pays them any attention)
From my experience those who don't like 911s have never driven one.All of them are great cars (when they aren't catching fire) ,the r8 really is its only competitor there is no other car that excites so much that can be used daily.(maybe the GTR but hard to say on that )
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woof woof
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I'll probably never drive a 911 but one competitor capable of being driven every day could be the Boxster / Cayman if only Porsche would let it be.
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PG
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| Frank Bullitt wrote: | | One would hope traditional Bentley owners refuse to have their cars share the workshop with a Conti or Silver Spud come service-time. Every time I see a Conti, Faithless' 'Fatty Bo' starts rolling round my mind. Can't think why... |
Which is a shame as having blagged our way onto the Bentley stand at the Geneva show, we took the opportunity to sit in a Conti GT and it was actually a very nice place to be.
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Matt
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Can't understand what caused your letter to be hate mail in last week's issue, but it doesn't surprise me given the pages it was printed within...
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DarthBalls
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| franki68 wrote: | | From my experience those who don't like 911s have never driven one.... |
Once I got past the 'wayhay I'm driving a Porsche' I realised I really didn't like the one I drove but it was an old one: 911SC 3.0
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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I'd love to try an old one, actually.
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