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franki68

replacing the xc90

Well I do like the xc90,it is very comfortable,extremely well made and offers a different driving experience from the r8 and z4.It is also ultra practical.
However it has possibly one of the worst diesel engines out and rolls like a boat round corners.
My old labrador cannot jump up into it either which makes it a pain for my wife to use with the dogs as she cannot lift the lab up (the fat bitch......the dog not the missus )
So I am looking to replace it,most likely with an estate..and probably 4wd as my wife likes the security of 4wd when it snows,alsomust be auto .
I seem to be stuck looking at various audis or a spec b subaru and would appreciate any alternative suggestions.2wd is not a no no,but budget is £20k and I don't want a car above insurance group 17,plus would like something no more than 3 years old.
Any suggestions ,thoughts ? My 'outsiders'  include the alfa 159 q4 estate ,and  possibly a passat r36 estate (though I have yet to find one under £20k)
I would also appreciate any info on a 3 series or a4 avant as they appeal but their boots seem a bit small for 2 largeish dogs.
btw please dont say jag xtype,and I would still consider a suv if the 'boot' entrance was low enough for a fat lab to jump up.
simonp

Not much help, but I wouldn't have thought a 159's boot is any bigger than a 3 series' or A4's?

I think I'd get an Audi quattro 3.0TDI and then get it remapped. Think these go to around 280PS and 0-60 in about 6 seconds or so and probably don't sound too bad being a 6 pot.
Blarno

I think you're pretty much limited to a Legacy or an Audi of some sort.

Spec B it is, then!
Martin

It sounds like it has to be A6/5 series/E Class size, the next rung down won't be big enough, they are very much 'lifestyle' estates (what a crap name!).

It all depends on the importance of 4 wheel drive.  If it is that important then I guess it will have to be one of the A6's.

As per the other thread, the issue with the Spec B might be the performance of the Auto?  It will be quicker than the XC90 though I suppose.
DaveGibson

Alternatively, Franki, get a dog ramp so the pooch doesn't have to be lifted.

http://www.coopersofstortford.co....anch=&wcategory=&catdesc=
franki68

Martin wrote:
It sounds like it has to be A6/5 series/E Class size, the next rung down won't be big enough, they are very much 'lifestyle' estates (what a crap name!).

It all depends on the importance of 4 wheel drive.  If it is that important then I guess it will have to be one of the A6's.

As per the other thread, the issue with the Spec B might be the performance of the Auto?  It will be quicker than the XC90 though I suppose.


I don't think there are many cars slower than the xc90 to be honest.
PG

What about a Jag X-Ty........oops.




I nearly mentioned it once but I think I got away with it.
Blarno

How about the ultimate rarity?:


Ford Sierra 2.9 Ghia 4x4 Estate. If you can find one, it'll be less than a grand!
woof woof

Sierra motoring = back upstairs and a long lay in bed when the fucking thing wont start.  
Blarno

They did a Scorpio 4x4 for a while too. Lovely 200 Bhp 24 valve six-donkey and loads of kit.
Big TC

Blarno wrote:
They did a Scorpio 4x4 for a while too. Lovely 200 Bhp 24 valve six-donkey and loads of kit.


And now usually found on a banger-racing track near you....
Martin

Blarno wrote:
They did a Scorpio 4x4 for a while too. Lovely 200 Bhp 24 valve six-donkey and loads of kit.


My best mates dad had one when we were 17/18.  Once he's passed his IAM test, his dad would let him drive both the Scorpio and TR6, it was a restored Morris Minor up until that point.

We had great fun trying to get all 4 wheels to spin  
Clunes

Well - we have very similar requirements (although 4WD is not an absolute)

VW do a 3.2 4Motion DSG and there are a couple under budget in the dealer network - not an R36 but not the same price either!

R36 are still listed at (and selling) over 20k
franki68

Clunes wrote:
Well - we have very similar requirements (although 4WD is not an absolute)

VW do a 3.2 4Motion DSG and there are a couple under budget in the dealer network - not an R36 but not the same price either!

R36 are still listed at (and selling) over 20k


I saw those,not sure ..heard passats are boring to drive .
As for the dog ramp..not sure how that solves the shit engine,roly poly handling ...or what advantage it has over a plank
Parm

I'd guess the boot floor of most small 'SUVs' aren't much higher that an estate? How about a VW Tiguan or something similar?
Mark

Parm wrote:
I'd guess the boot floor of most small 'SUVs' aren't much higher that an estate? How about a VW Tiguan or something similar?


It's not liked around here, but I think the Volvo XC60 is very smart.
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

I was thinking that ... the XC60 has better engines too.
JohnC

I have a friend who works for one of Arnold Clark's VW garages. He was with me at Oulton Park and was telling me that they have just received from VW some V6 4-Motion Passat Estates in top of the range SEL spec. They have DSG, leather/Alcantara and all the toys and if you speak to the right man they are putting them out at £19995.

They are all 09 plates with delivery mileage.

Send me a PM if you are interested and I will give you his name and number.

EDIT. Even if it does do a good impression of a plank, it's pretty good value for a new car. Alternatively and since the cost of fuel doesn't seem to matter, I would have a SpecB because the only Audi big enough would be the A6 and a decent 4wd one would cost too much.

Or put the dog on a diet and get an X5.
franki68

JohnC wrote:
I have a friend who works for one of Arnold Clark's VW garages. He was with me at Oulton Park and was telling me that they have just received from VW some V6 4-Motion Passat Estates in top of the range SEL spec. They have DSG, leather/Alcantara and all the toys and if you speak to the right man they are putting them out at £19995.

They are all 09 plates with delivery mileage.

Send me a PM if you are interested and I will give you his name and number.

EDIT. Even if it does do a good impression of a plank, it's pretty good value for a new car. Alternatively and since the cost of fuel doesn't seem to matter, I would have a SpecB because the only Audi big enough would be the A6 and a decent 4wd one would cost too much.

Or put the dog on a diet and get an X5.


I will try one and pm you if I like it.
Guitar Zero

If you are prepared to wait another 6 or so months, Skoda are launching an estate version of the Superb with a Mary Queen version of the 3.6 V6 and 4 wheel drive.

It's absolutely huge and quite a smart looking thing.

If you can't wait, is an Octavia estate big enough ? - they come in 4x4 flavour.

If your willing to take front wheel drive in lieu of 4 wheel drive, the Mondeo is equally monstrous. They are ace to drive though and you can buy a brand new toyed up one with the 2.2 tdci or turbo 5 pot petrol for under £18k.
simonp

I was jokingly gonna suggest a dog ramp and whilst googling for pics there were lots that people had made so that their short, fat or old dogs could get onto their beds or sofas!

for example http://www.k9psych.com/ramp.htm
Guitar Zero

An SUV with air suspension can be made to drop to allow easier ingress.

Range Rover it is then

Or a citroen C5 estate - you can get them with the super dooper diesel V6 engine
franki68

this has caught my eye sorry for the long C&P

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es...ture=2006&vehicleRegLetter=56
"him"

That is a lot of car for the money...
Guitar Zero

Like the colour

Do you have the load lip height figures for this car ?, if one of your main concerns is access for the dog, you should make sure your getting a big reduction before you needlessly change cars.

BTW - As fuel usage clearly isn't a consideration, why don't you just get the 2.5 turbo petrol, 2.8 litre turbo six, or 4.4 litre V8 XC90 instead ??? It obviously ticks most of your boxes and the faster petrols should have suspension set ups to suit
Frank Bullitt

Volvo V70 AWD 2.5T?

Last of the old shape should be well in budget, or a newer one at a push.
franki68

if i change..i change if you know what I mean,wouldn't change to another xc90 as much as I appreciate its many assets.
My kids want me to get the volkswagen toureg as it has quite a low loading lip.
Boxer6

franki68 wrote:
if i change..i change if you know what I mean,wouldn't change to another xc90 as much as I appreciate its many assets.
My kids want me to get the volkswagen toureg as it has quite a low loading lip.


Thing is, the Toerag is second only to the Cayenne in the naff looks stakes.
Rodge

How about a Murano or a Land Cruiser? Personally I wouldn't be interested in either but might be worth a look.

Scratch that, go for that GTR you were thinking of recently. 4wd, room for the dog........
Apex clipper

Rodge wrote:


Scratch that, go for that GTR you were thinking of recently. 4wd, room for the dog........


Sage words.
DaveGibson

Nissan Qashqai is about 20K for a 4WD model when new so a used example should be well within budget. 2.0l petrol or diesel.
JohnC

franki68 wrote:
if i change..i change if you know what I mean,wouldn't change to another xc90 as much as I appreciate its many assets.
My kids want me to get the volkswagen toureg as it has quite a low loading lip.


Our Touareg had a much lower loading height than our X5 and probably not much higher than your average estate. A friend of mine with a fairly hefty labrador has a Touareg and has no problems with the dog getting in and out. Although I far prefered driving the X5 my wife prefered the Touareg because she said it was more modern and more comfortable.
franki68

JohnC wrote:
franki68 wrote:
if i change..i change if you know what I mean,wouldn't change to another xc90 as much as I appreciate its many assets.
My kids want me to get the volkswagen toureg as it has quite a low loading lip.


Our Touareg had a much lower loading height than our X5 and probably not much higher than your average estate. A friend of mine with a fairly hefty labrador has a Touareg and has no problems with the dog getting in and out. Although I far prefered driving the X5 my wife prefered the Touareg because she said it was more modern and more comfortable.


That's interesting.Im not sure about the touareg's looks ,but the interior is very good.BTW my dog is not really that fat,she is however quite arthritic poor thing.
I think it is going to be between the touareg (i have spotted a 3.0 d se specced to the hilt 06 with 40k for 15k) and passat estate,several reviews of the scooby spec b mention the seating being poor and one tester complained of a bad back after driving one.
Roadrunner

The Touareg is a guilty pleasure of mine, especially with this engine:

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es...ture=2005&vehicleRegLetter=05
Clunes

The short drive I took in a spec b yesterday was comfortable enough but the seats are not a particular highlight being relatively flat.

However, The passat R36 seats (also on the v6 in the above link) were amazing to sit in - way better than the recaros on the mondeo which are good. I didn't get a chance to drive the Passat but I expect the seats would be a high point.
PG

Roadrunner wrote:
The Touareg is a guilty pleasure of mine


Me too. I think the interior is the best of three between that, the Q7 and the Cayenne.
ALF

I like the XC60 also - if it is big enough.

The 159 estate is more practical than magazine tests might suggest, and it is a lovely looking thing that is enjoyable to drive despite being more than a tad lardy, and the engines are not the best in terms of economy/performance.

Personally I really like the all-road version of the new A6 but I bet they hold their value well and have not been out for long. Engine-wise for that sort of car it probably has to be the 3.0TDi though it is quite a rattly unit at startup/idle. If fuel costs were not a biggie and mileage was low I'd seek out a 3.2 V6 petrol personally - buy price is likely to be miles lower too (same goes for 3.2 V6 159).
Rodge

DaveGibson wrote:
Nissan Qashqai is about 20K for a 4WD model when new so a used example should be well within budget. 2.0l petrol or diesel.


Slight problem though. The Qashqai is the successor to the Almera and is attracting similar drivers.

Buying one of them would mean that Franki would automatically lose any interest in cars, lose interest in driving, lose any knowledge of lane discipline, never indicate, forget how to use roundabouts, talk on the phone while driving, drive everywhere at 25mph until he reaches a 30mph zone, where he would speed up to 45mph, age at 5 times the normal rate, develop an irrational love of Werthurs Original and wear a flat cap every time he leaves the house.

Other than that, they're an ok car in a white kitchen appliance type of way


If he was looking for something like a Qashqai, I'd recommend a Kuga. They are a really good car ( ) to drive for their size, but aren't all that special inside.
SpecB

Clunes wrote:
The short drive I took in a spec b yesterday was comfortable enough but the seats are not a particular highlight being relatively flat.

However, The passat R36 seats (also on the v6 in the above link) were amazing to sit in - way better than the recaros on the mondeo which are good. I didn't get a chance to drive the Passat but I expect the seats would be a high point.


I seem to remeber when I did a report for Dan last year sometime I thought the seats could do with more lateral support.  I test drove a Passat Sport prior to the Legacy and would say the seats are superb.

When I had an Impreza Sport with good grippy seats, I found they crucified my already dodgy back.
PG

ALF wrote:
Personally I really like the all-road version of the new A6 but I bet they hold their value well and have not been out for long. Engine-wise for that sort of car it probably has to be the 3.0TDi though it is quite a rattly unit at startup/idle. If fuel costs were not a biggie and mileage was low I'd seek out a 3.2 V6 petrol personally - buy price is likely to be miles lower too (same goes for 3.2 V6 159).


Ah, another guilty pleasure - Audi Allroads. The first version that avoids the uber grille was available with a 2.7 turbo petrol engine in auto or manual.
Martin

The Passat Sport seats are great and the R36 have additional bolstering (?) without losing any of the comfort.  They are way more comfortable that the ones in the Jetta, let alone the C250 seats which were most uncomfortable indeed.  I've done 7/8 hours in them without so much as a twinge of discomfort.

The big, high backed sports seats in the 5 series M Sport are better still, or at least they were on the test drive.....
franki68

the passat seats are 'orthopedic' so I believe...so should be good.
Im still on hols so I will drive one when I get back and make up my mind then.
Boxer6

franki68 wrote:
JohnC wrote:
franki68 wrote:
if i change..i change if you know what I mean,wouldn't change to another xc90 as much as I appreciate its many assets.
My kids want me to get the volkswagen toureg as it has quite a low loading lip.


Our Touareg had a much lower loading height than our X5 and probably not much higher than your average estate. A friend of mine with a fairly hefty labrador has a Touareg and has no problems with the dog getting in and out. Although I far prefered driving the X5 my wife prefered the Touareg because she said it was more modern and more comfortable.


That's interesting.Im not sure about the touareg's looks ,but the interior is very good.BTW my dog is not really that fat,she is however quite arthritic poor thing.
I think it is going to be between the touareg (i have spotted a 3.0 d se specced to the hilt 06 with 40k for 15k) and passat estate,several reviews of the scooby spec b mention the seating being poor and one tester complained of a bad back after driving one.


I've wondered before about the objectivity of people re seat comfort - as with all things, I suppose, there is a high degree of subjectivity when assessing it, and it's really difficult to do so on someone else's behalf.

I must admit I haven't tried many of the alternatives listed, so all I can say is the most comfortable seats I've ever had in a car were in the CR-V; I find the seats in the Legacy almost as good, and I've had a dodgy back (and knees!) for years.

I'm guessing the Spec B didn't "float your boat" then Oliver?
SpecB

Seats can be subjective.  I find the Legacy comfortable with my back - I wouldn't have bought the car otherwise.  Just out of interest I had a look on the net and you can get STi Recaros that just plug in and have all the electrics for the tiny sum of £2,500 each - that will be a no then!  
Frank Bullitt

PG wrote:
Roadrunner wrote:
The Touareg is a guilty pleasure of mine


Me too. I think the interior is the best of three between that, the Q7 and the Cayenne.


You're not alone - also seems to have been replaced as wheels of choice for VAG fans with shit-for-brains who buy the Chav7
Gooner

I'd be amazed if someone selling a Passat R36 wouldn't bite your hand off if you offered 20k cash.

It's a shame BMW and Mercedes don't see fit to offer 4wd on their regular 3/5 and C/E in this country really as I can't help thinking either would be better than an A4 Quattro.

The guys on here with Spec B legacies seem to absolutely love them and those owners that fill in their JD Power forms also seem similarly pleased with their leggy. They look good, are rare so not the run of the mill Audi and consequently are probably better looked after as a result. That would be my choice.

Another interesting one is the Saab 9-3 wagon with 4wd and the twin turbo V6. Bit old though and not as spacious as it's rivals.

Can't think of any other options aside another Volvo or an Octavia Scout. The Volvo has the same problem as before - too slow and the Octavia scout? Would you really? Perhaps wait for the Superb estate to arrive.
DarthBalls

Boxer6 wrote:

I've wondered before about the objectivity of people re seat comfort - as with all things, I suppose, there is a high degree of subjectivity when assessing it, and it's really difficult to do so on someone else's behalf.

I must admit I haven't tried many of the alternatives listed, so all I can say is the most comfortable seats I've ever had in a car were in the CR-V; I find the seats in the Legacy almost as good, and I've had a dodgy back (and knees!) for years.


I found the front passenger seat of the Spec B very comfortable too.
franki68

Gooner wrote:
I'd be amazed if someone selling a Passat R36 wouldn't bite your hand off if you offered 20k cash.

It's a shame BMW and Mercedes don't see fit to offer 4wd on their regular 3/5 and C/E in this country really as I can't help thinking either would be better than an A4 Quattro.

The guys on here with Spec B legacies seem to absolutely love them and those owners that fill in their JD Power forms also seem similarly pleased with their leggy. They look good, are rare so not the run of the mill Audi and consequently are probably better looked after as a result. That would be my choice.

Another interesting one is the Saab 9-3 wagon with 4wd and the twin turbo V6. Bit old though and not as spacious as it's rivals.

Can't think of any other options aside another Volvo or an Octavia Scout. The Volvo has the same problem as before - too slow and the Octavia scout? Would you really? Perhaps wait for the Superb estate to arrive.


Do you think ? I can't find an r36 for less than 23k and they are all in dealers.I also need to part ex as I cannot be arsed with private buyers,so a pure cash deal is out of the question.
Also noted its group 18 which makes the 3.2 more attractive as its 16
Parm

You'd probably be able to negotiate close to 10% off the sticker price of a used R36, bringing it closer to 20k.
franki68

one last off the wall option..mazda cx-7...seems like a bit of fun .....not available in auto but the gearchange has been praised a lot.
Clunes

GZ

can you point me in the direction of toyed up 2.2 or 2.5 mondeos for 18k

they remain an option for me but I can barely find high spec used for that (certainly w.r.t. the 2.2)

hope to test drive one v.shortly
Guitar Zero

www.drivethedeal.com

Then, print it off and take it to your local dealer - many will now match drive the deal.
franki68

pretty much decided on the vw touareg,as much as the alfa and passat appealed ,they are really difficult to sell on.
PG

franki68 wrote:
pretty much decided on the vw touareg,as much as the alfa and passat appealed ,they are really difficult to sell on.


I think that's a good choice. Which engine are you going for though? The full fat V10?
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

PG wrote:
franki68 wrote:
pretty much decided on the vw touareg,as much as the alfa and passat appealed ,they are really difficult to sell on.

I think that's a good choice. Which engine are you going for though? The full fat V10?

Probably a good idea. It's a big heavy old thing.
Jasper

My boss has a V6 TDi and it's a very nice car, certainly far better built than anything from the Land Rover stable.

I've had the pleasure of being a passanger in a V10 and it's....well...a very strange sensation.
franki68

the v10 is a bit OTT,I don't mind slow in such a heavy beast,and bearing in mind I am going to have to get all practical next year (please audi release the new rs4 avant,or bmw the new m5 estate by next october...please) I want to keep the cost of changing to a minimal level.
Jasper

Is a V6 TDi within budget? It's probably the most logigal choice as the 5 cyl engines are a touch on the rough side, reliable but a bit rough.

I'm guessing a petrol version is not in the running?
Nice Guy Eddie

My mate has a Touareg 3.0Tdi and I was actually surprised at how well it went. The interior is way nicer then anything this side of a full Fat Range Rover too.
I'd go for a non Altitude model as well as they are a little gangsta with the big rims and darkened glass.
JohnC

I must be a Gangsta then because I think the Altitudes look miles better.

My friend who works for a VW dealer told me that towards the end of last year they could buy 3.0 TDi Touaregs under a year old and sell them at £21995. Now they can't buy them for £2K to £3K more than that!
Nice Guy Eddie

The trouble I have with the Altitude is that it ruins what is a subtle and honest 4x4. Start sticking low profile tyres on 4x4's and they lose their pupose. If Frankie isn't going to be taking the car off road then I guess its not an issue but then your probably better off with an Allroad.
franki68

I think this is gangsta enough for me

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es...adcategory=&largeId=972350183
JohnC

I like mine to look like this:

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es...ture=2008&vehicleRegLetter=08
PG

Sorry, franki , but I hope you're joking? Those wheels are awful.
franki68

I am,however the price is good for the 3.0 diesel,so i might see if he has the standard wheels.ONe of the things I do like about 4x4s is you can do stuff like drive over pavements ,and people without damaging the wheels,so those sort of defeats the purpose
Racing

franki68 wrote:
(please audi release the new rs4 avant by next october...please)


Not until 2011 apparently........would one of the C63/E63 wagons do? That's what my father's considering in the absence of the new RS4 being available next year.
franki68

Racing wrote:
franki68 wrote:
(please audi release the new rs4 avant by next october...please)


Not until 2011 apparently........would one of the C63/E63 wagons do? That's what my father's considering in the absence of the new RS4 being available next year.


I love the c63,and a guy I know who has a bentley gt speed was telling me h drove one recently and loved it,and was it not for the fact he was a badge snob,would have changed car.However my drive has a horrific incline so 4wd is a must just to get out when it snows.I think I am going to have to get an rs6,but I still have 12-15 months before I do that.I wouldn't get an estate and keep a 4x4 .
JohnC

I wouldn't have a C63 unless I had something else to drive in damp, wet and other slippery conditions.

It is completely impossible to unleash all its power and torque unless the road is dry. If the road isn't dry you will find yourself sideways whilst trying to go in a straight line or you will have to drive at the speed of the average C220CDi which kind of defeats the purpose of having it in the first place.

All that power and torque needs 4wd so that it can be used and enjoyed more frequently.
Racing

Mmmm. Which is why Dad is dubious about the C63 and considering the new S4 instead.....which is different....but not a hen in my opinion. If you get my drift.

I think he'll find a V6 S4 dull after the RS4.
JohnC

You have to say that Audi has been very poor in the timing of the release of both the last and the future RS4. Very few other cars I can think of have had 3 years plus between the old model being discontinued and the new one being introduced.
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

When Audi dropped the RS4, there was all this bull about how there would only be one RS model at a time. However, there are currently two (6, TT), with at least three more in the offing (3, 4, 5), so that is obviously nonsense. And as you say, it's left a yawning gap in the market where sales are being lost.
franki68

the new s4 is supposed to be very good though isn't it?
Racing

Good is not the same as having essentially the same engine as your R8 up front though is it?
Martin

I like it in principle, but the problem with the C63 is an interior that isn't fit for a £30k car is definitely not suitable for a £50k one.

I'm sure the mighty engine will take your mind off it from time to time, but when cruising up the motorway or stuck in traffic, it would ruin the car for me.
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