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Twelfth Monkey

Re-Muppet.

Well, we're re-mapped.  The difference is noticeable, will report later on how.  Certainly in the midrange, the engine feels like it's breathing with a bigger set of lungs.
gonnabuildabuggy

Didn't know you were planning that!

Oddlly spend 15 mins this morning looking into Bluefin remaps of Mondeo 2.5T's. For about £3,500 you'd have a nice car with 260 odd BHP.
him

Excellent, did you get a rolling road session done?
Twelfth Monkey

Nope, that's to follow - misunderstanding firmly at the end of DMS.  The rolling road at the site near me is being re-commissioned, so I'll be getting that done in a couple of weeks to tweak and measure, and see whether it needs a chemical clean.  Off out for another drive and will have a bit to say then!
Frank Bullitt

I know a few people have tried remapped FSi engines and they generally comment the car is a little sharper and quicker but the economy can suffer quite notably - be interesting to see your experience.

Mine has been running a remap now for the best part of a decade with no ill-effects (yet!)
Blarno

I have a remap planned for the SAAB at some point. A nice healthy 209 bhp and 300 lb/ft will suit me nicely.
Twelfth Monkey

Right.  Initial impressions.  Gentle on the way back at first, getting up to temp and not knowing the roads/cameras etc.  Prodding the throttle at 70 whilst in cruise and the car felt as though it was responding more potently.  Did a few runs through the mid and into the upper rev band, and the torque curve is noticeably plumped up.  If mine was properly fit and healthy it's 414bhp/317lbs/ft.  It would now be 441bhp/354 lbs/ft, and it pulls from 3-6,000 with what feels like a corresponding increase in urge, and by 6,500 it feels as strong as it did before at 8,000.  The difference being that it carries on.  I reckon 60-100 (which was 6s in Autocar's original test) is at least half a second faster, though it's obviously hard to quantify.

I didn't go anywhere near a full-bore standing start, but that'll be interesting.  I did a moderate one and again it just feels plain brawnier.  One slight downside (and it is slight) is that it no longer has a noticeable V-tec-like shift at 6k or so - it just hauls around in a linear fashion from low down.

Feels well worth it.  Apparently those running supercharger kits don't tend to have other mechanical mods, so I think the drivetrain is up to it.  I can only begin to imagine how ludicrously (probably rather uncomfortably) fast it would feel if so powered.  And no, I'm not going to...
PG

Sounds interesting.

What did your insurers say?
Humphrey The Pug

Were Kermit and Miss Piggy involved?

What have you gone from and to; HP?
TreVoR

I've often thought what the Legacy would have felt like with a remap or supercharger kit. I was very tempted at the time.
Boxer6

TreVoR wrote:
I've often thought what the Legacy would have felt like with a remap or supercharger kit. I was very tempted at the time.


Someone on UKL put a Raptor S/C on his. If memory serves, it didn't all go as well as hoped!
Roadsterstu

Sounds good. Must pop over and sample this added power although to me it already felt "fucking fast".

GBB, 3.5k sounds a lot. I'm sure you'd get that output for much less. I'm almost tempted to chuck a bit of money at the ageing T5 and then do some track days.
gonnabuildabuggy

Roadsterstu wrote:
Sounds good. Must pop over and sample this added power although to me it already felt "fucking fast".

GBB, 3.5k sounds a lot. I'm sure you'd get that output for much less. I'm almost tempted to chuck a bit of money at the ageing T5 and then do some track days.


£3K buys a very nice 2008 and £400 for a remap.

An ageing T5 is more of a risk bills wise.
Roadsterstu

Ah, sorry. I thought you were just talking about the remap. Could use the Mountune stuff or a Volvo tuner like Shark Performance.  If I do anything to mine it will be very much on a budget for fun purposes and silliness really.
PhilD

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Apparently those running supercharger kits don't tend to have other mechanical mods, so I think the drivetrain is up to it.  I can only begin to imagine how ludicrously (probably rather uncomfortably) fast it would feel if so powered.  And no, I'm not going to...


Remember that slippery slope we mentioned...
Twelfth Monkey

HP, 414 to 441, assuming it was fully fit beforehand which is to be verified shortly.  But I think the torque gains are more significant.

FB, part of their sell is great economy as you use fewer revs in ordinary usage.  We'll see - yesterday wasn't a great day to assess.  That said, I got over 25 over 3.5 hours despite some post-map testing and being stuck in a jam for half an hour.

PG, I had paid just under £300 with Quote Me Happy pre-remap.  Whilst they are cheap, they aren't great if you want to talk to them (email only) so I went elsewhere without asking them.  Got £315 via Adrian Flux including the work, which came in at £750 + vat.  Or rather it will do when the r/r bit is done.

Let me know when you're free stu, and I'll pop over.

Phil, it actually felt slightly uncomfortable wringing it out.  Going to something which makes power and torque begin with a six would be genuinely scary, I think.  The DMS guy is coming up from Southampton to do the r/r stuff himself, so I'll get to hear what his 'zorts sound like, mind.
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Good stuff - sounds like a worthwhile upgrade. And as you have one of the finest N/A engines of all time, I'm glad you resisted the temptation to stick a supercharger on it.
Twelfth Monkey

Thank you!  As well as being a dubious idea, they look like they cost between £6-10k.  One quotes a 3.4s to 60 time, which suggests to me that if the B7 was DSG-equipped, it'd be nigh-on F1-fast to 60.  Superficially appealing, but daft.
Stuntman

Totally agree with the Doc.  Supercharging an already properly powerful and lovely nat asp engine would be an act of vandalism, IMO!

Hope you're pleased with the upgrade.  I'm interested in the psychology behind your decision, though - after 9 years did you think that the car could do with more power, or was it more that the opportunity to increase power for a relatively modest outlay was just too much to resist?

FWIW I have never thought that my M3 needs more power, it has plenty enough for me and can be a handful in the wet if I'm not smooth and precise with it.
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Stuntman wrote:
FWIW I have never thought that my M3 needs more power, it has plenty enough for me and can be a handful in the wet if I'm not smooth and precise with it.

Perhaps the 4WD of the RS4 makes one feel it could use more power without becoming an uncontrollable beast.
Twelfth Monkey

It's not traction-limited, so that's one small reason, but I think that there are several:

I haven't had that 'new car' buzz for a very long time (a decade come January), and I've toyed with the idea of a modest hike in output before as a way of getting something similar.

Insurance had put me off when I'd considered it before, as my then insurer would have added a grand to the premium.  As it is, the only real cost is the initial outlay.

The world has certainly moved on in torque and accelerative terms.  Turbocharging, trick gearboxes and the big diesel.  When the RS4 was launched, it was described as being plump and relentless in torque terms, whereas something just over 300 lbs/ft now is small potatoes.  And viewed in objective terms, the engine's specific torque output wasn't enormous.

The idea of a bit more grunt and speed appealed - you do acclimatise.  And the car feels as though it could always have handled a bit more without changing its character.  Even in the wet, and not just in terms of traction.  It may be that the car (and or I) gel well with the Goodyears, but even in cornering terms it seems little affected by the wet.  The car is a pussycat to drive fast (with the aids on - I did have a brown trouser moment with them off once and concluded I wasn't missing anything at all), so I thought I'd be scratching a lot of little itches.


And I think I'm right.  It's always made every journey feel special (and the car still crops up in my dreams - usually with me having sold it and being genuinely upset), but I'm feeling a tingle at the thought of getting it out later on.  And the car, fnarr,  fnarr...
Roadsterstu

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
Didn't know you were planning that!

Oddlly spend 15 mins this morning looking into Bluefin remaps of Mondeo 2.5T's. For about £3,500 you'd have a nice car with 260 odd BHP.


I've just had another ponder on this idea. I'm toying with the idea of changing the V50 next spring. Been through various options (a thread for another time) but one thought was to get a much younger V50 T5. Adding your idea to that could see a T5 AWD with a meaty remap, fruity exhaust and tinkered suspension, making a quick and practical car, for a lot less than something like a 4 or 5 year old C350Cdi, which was one end of the scale.
Martin

Have you thought about replacing some of the suspension components to get more of a new (or refreshed) car feeling?  I've no idea what to change, but I assume there are plenty of things that will be worn after 10 years and you'd really notice the difference.
TreVoR

Springs, shocks and bushes all round followed by a full alignment would do that.  Would be expensive, mind.
Martin

Cheaper than a new car
Twelfth Monkey

The bushing etc is inspected as part of the servicing, and they did comment on a small degree of wear.  But (uncharacteristically) they've said it's not an issue at all and have discouraged me from dipping into my pocket.  Usually it's the other way around, and they are keen to show you where you could be parting with sizeable sums.  Bushing isn't cheap, but it's not ruinous either.  But the car still feels taut yet fluid when pressing on.  I know deteriorations can be very gradual, but it doesn't feel like it drives any differently to they day I got it.  And I guess that avenue would only be further complicated/priced-up by the fact that the car has DRC.

I've read about aftermarket suspension setups, usually to replace broken DRC, but the comments haven't been kind.  'Ruined' is the word that sticks in my mind!

The guy from DMS has Ohlins dampers, might be interesting to go for a quick drive, though I suspect we're looking at sizeable sums of money to fix something that feels resolutely unbroken.
TreVoR

If it feels fine then I wouldn't bother. Ohlins are great but much money!

The Legacy felt very baggy at 70k miles, although I did drive it hard quite a lot.  I had re-bushed most of it which helped a lot, but it really needed a set of springs and shocks.
Twelfth Monkey

There was the odd point pre-remap where I'd find myself in the low part of the rev band in 2nd and know I wasn't quite getting the get-up-and-go that I might have liken, briefly at least.  That gap seems to have been well and truly filled.  I've also noticed the TC on one occasion where I am certain I wouldn't have previously.  Just by the light briefly illuminating.
PhilD

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
 I've also noticed the TC on one occasion where I am certain I wouldn't have previously.  Just by the light briefly illuminating.


You've spent a few hundred quid on a flickering light haven't you?

One born every minute...


Twelfth Monkey

Maybe they just put the bulb in?
franki68

have you had it on a rolling road yet ?

DMS have a good reputation ,but I would honestly be amazed if you got a 10% increase in power or torque just from a remap on a n/a engine.
Maybe with headers/exhaust and remap .

I never got a decent rolling  road result with the r8 after the remap but the mid range was definitely much improved,although some on the r8 forums suggested  its more to do with them mapping the throttle response than any increase in power.
Twelfth Monkey

It's not a 10% increase in power.  But I have seen pre- and post- charts, so unless they are being made up, there you go.  Personal experience is that it isn't throttle response, which was hardly tardy in the first place.  
franki68

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
It's not a 10% increase in power.  But I have seen pre- and post- charts, so unless they are being made up, there you go.  Personal experience is that it isn't throttle response, which was hardly tardy in the first place.  


just repeating what some said at the time I had the r8 done. There was an improvement in mine without doubt.
I had the device to switch between the remap and standard,put it back into standard when I sold it and some poor sod has been driving round with it like that unknowing.
Twelfth Monkey

Just noticed that it now revs to about 8,600.  I may not use the extra 350 too often, as that's pretty revvy.

I'll have to get Car & driver to figure it - it'll be as quick as a Veyron...

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