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Twelfth Monkey

RDQ 3/9: Minor irritants.

Anything presently irritating you in a minor, probably irrational way?  Not the sort of stuff that prompts a 'rant', but which grinds your gears anyway.

Mine is people who can't help themselves but begin sentences with the word 'so'.  This is a link between two things, and not a start in its own right.  Seems to be endemic in TV science programmes, and one of the team captains on Only Connect a few weeks ago couldn't help himself.

I don't know why, but it raises my hackles.

As does Only Connect, come to think about it.  A good idea, but Coren-Mitchell I find about as endearing as a mouthful of rotten food.
TreVoR

I'm learning how to play golf at the moment. I was invited out for a round yesterday and my companion spent the entire time telling what I was doing wrong and how to correct it.  It got marginally annoying, to say the least.
Humphrey The Pug

I hate it when people finish off a post or comment with "just saying".

You see it on forums or comments sections on websites, someone will post something and finish it off with "just saying", err yeahh we know as you wrote it down, it really annoys me.

Just saying!
PhilD

You would though wouldn't you 12th?
Stuntman

I certainly would...  I like Only Connect, especially the missing vowels questions.  I'd be a valued team member in that round!

I find the 'So' thing mildly irritating but language always moves with the times, whether some of us like it or not.  In the same way, I also find 'Can I get' mildly irritating.
Blarno

Humans.

Humans irritate me.

And cats.
gooner

People beginning a sentence with "And I was like:" It seems to be happening a lot these days and the more I think of it the more wrong it seems.

Also glitter. It took forever to get it off the boot floor this afternoon. I had to resort to popping to the office and using the cleaners Henry to get it all out 😡
Twelfth Monkey

PhilD wrote:
You would though wouldn't you 12th?


Oh, and posts without commas.



Oh god, I've only just twigged what you mean! †No, nay, never, I feel a bit sick!

It's the predictability of her banter that gets me:

VCM: 'So, how have you been preparing since your defeat by the Rancid Cow-Fuckers?'

Captain: 'We've been reading up on medieval folk dance, and investigating Cardiff's hostelries.' †

VCM: 'Everybody sing along - 1, 2, 3...'

The teams: 'I've got a brand new combine harvester...'


It feels like the home for all those bright but socially inept and painfully dull people you remember from A-levels and beyond...
Twelfth Monkey

Stuntman wrote:
I certainly would... †I like Only Connect, especially the missing vowels questions. †I'd be a valued team member in that round!

I find the 'So' thing mildly irritating but language always moves with the times, whether some of us like it or not. †In the same way, I also find 'Can I get' mildly irritating.


That's the only round we're good at, and like you tend to do better than most of the teams. †Tend to be rubbish at much of the rest, particularly the music rounds.

Agree about 'can I get?' †Heard it in America years ago, which is why I think it's caught on. †Baaaah!
Frank Bullitt

I always think language and vocabulary evolve, be it for the better or worse so there isn't much that upsets me in that respect, perhaps if only put short-lived fashions into the category, such as the current need to add 'really' (raised towards the end) when referring to something blindingly obvious.

I suppose people who clearly seem to be able to get themselves out of bed yet unable to make simple decisions.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

People driving who are too lazy (or whatever) to use their indicators when they are about to turn (and countless other minor irritations - not all motoring related too)
simonp

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
It feels like the home for all those bright but socially inept and painfully dull people you remember from A-levels and beyond...


I wouldn't know, I happily left school at 16 into my life of mediocrity. Best year of one's life? Nope, I fucking hated it. I was in an awful no man's land of being clever enough to converse with the nerds, but having absolutely no desire to because the thickos I preferred the company of were having more fun. My school despaired because I had an IQ of 140+, but also held their detention record!

I also can't stand Only Connect, mostly because of the hostess.
PG

simonp wrote:
I also can't stand Only Connect, mostly because of the hostess.


It is one of those shows that the commissioning editors, creators and participants obviously think is very good and very funny. And which I don't.

So back to the OP really †
Michael

Blarno wrote:
Humans.

Humans irritate me.

And cats.


It's difficult to argue with any of this.
DetmoldDick

Re: RDQ 3/9: Minor irritants.

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
A people who can't help themselves but begin sentences with the word 'so'.

I find about as endearing as a mouthful of rotten food.


These two things made me think of a recent post in Facebook (sorry but bare with me)
https://www.facebook.com/hemley/p...9993776389540/?type=3&theater

#9 had me in tears
Twelfth Monkey

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
People driving who are too lazy (or whatever) to use their indicators when they are about to turn (and countless other minor irritations - not all motoring related too)


Especially when you sit there waiting for them to pass, and realise you've missed an opportunity to pull out because they were too lazy/thick/ignorant to have bothered with the Herculean task of moving a stalk an inch or so...
PhilD

Twelfth Monkey wrote:


It feels like the home for all those bright but socially inept and painfully dull people you remember from A-levels and beyond...


If only they had crossed the 6th Form common room floor to hang out with the cool kids and talk about new cars they had spotted or digital watches  
Bob Sacamano

Spending a productive evening preparing some healthy meals to take to work for lunch, and then forgetting about them and leaving them in the fridge.

I really don't know why I bother, I do it all the time.  
DetmoldDick

Bob Sacamano wrote:
forgetting about them and leaving them in the fridge.



I do the same but with evening-meal leftovers
Twelfth Monkey

PhilD wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:


It feels like the home for all those bright but socially inept and painfully dull people you remember from A-levels and beyond...


If only they had crossed the 6th Form common room floor to hang out with the cool kids and talk about new cars they had spotted or digital watches †


There's really no response to that, is there?
Racing Teatray

The inability of the roses in my garden to cope with any form of mildly heavy rain.

It's dry for weeks, the effing things finally bloom, and lo and behold it rains and the next morning is a scene of snapped stem devastation.

Ok, I am new to this gardening malarkey but this does seem stupid.
Michael

We have this habit of planting roses on their own but as plants they tend to grow wild amongst other things, particularly in hedges that would afford them greater protection.
PhilD

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
PhilD wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:


It feels like the home for all those bright but socially inept and painfully dull people you remember from A-levels and beyond...


If only they had crossed the 6th Form common room floor to hang out with the cool kids and talk about new cars they had spotted or digital watches †


There's really no response to that, is there?


Sorry    (and I do know what you mean!)
JohnC

Racing Teatray wrote:
The inability of the roses in my garden to cope with any form of mildly heavy rain.

It's dry for weeks, the effing things finally bloom, and lo and behold it rains and the next morning is a scene of snapped stem devastation.

Ok, I am new to this gardening malarkey but this does seem stupid.


Roses planted on their own tend to need to have sticks/canes to which they are attached by a small piece of wire or twine.

A common Glasgow phrase is By The Way...."I'm just going home, by the way" or "Where did you go on holiday by the way" or "By the way what's the best way to get to the pub"

Does my head in!
Tim

Weegies also like to slip the word 'but' in at the end of sentences.

The 'so' thing annoys me and our CEO here still does it. He's a nice guy apart from that (well, that and his love of Dundee Football Club   ).
Grampa

The so thing annoys me slightly too - what I find more annoying is people saying 'Yeah?' after a suggestion/instruction and people who when in agreement with you say, 'yeah, yeah, yeah'.
Michael

Tim wrote:
Weegies also like to slip the word 'but' in at the end of sentences.


Reminds me of the opinion pieces in The National I keep seeing on twitter written in 'Scots' - or more likely by an infant. Quite annoying.

Twelfth Monkey

Racing Teatray wrote:
The inability of the roses in my garden to cope with any form of mildly heavy rain.

It's dry for weeks, the effing things finally bloom, and lo and behold it rains and the next morning is a scene of snapped stem devastation.

Ok, I am new to this gardening malarkey but this does seem stupid.


I reckon that any plant requiring more than water and sunshine is taking the piss, personally...
PhilD

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:
The inability of the roses in my garden to cope with any form of mildly heavy rain.

It's dry for weeks, the effing things finally bloom, and lo and behold it rains and the next morning is a scene of snapped stem devastation.

Ok, I am new to this gardening malarkey but this does seem stupid.


I reckon that any plant requiring more than water and sunshine is taking the piss, personally...


Does that work? happy to give it a try.
PG

PhilD wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:
The inability of the roses in my garden to cope with any form of mildly heavy rain.

It's dry for weeks, the effing things finally bloom, and lo and behold it rains and the next morning is a scene of snapped stem devastation.

Ok, I am new to this gardening malarkey but this does seem stupid.


I reckon that any plant requiring more than water and sunshine is taking the piss, personally...


Does that work? happy to give it a try.


Urea is a great source of nitrogen, so yes it does work.  
PG

Michael wrote:
Blarno wrote:
Humans.

Humans irritate me.

And cats.


It's difficult to argue with any of this.


I don't know. Cats are not that annoying.
Twelfth Monkey

75% of the cats we had were. †That's nearly 8 out of 10...
PhilD

PG wrote:
PhilD wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:
The inability of the roses in my garden to cope with any form of mildly heavy rain.

It's dry for weeks, the effing things finally bloom, and lo and behold it rains and the next morning is a scene of snapped stem devastation.

Ok, I am new to this gardening malarkey but this does seem stupid.


I reckon that any plant requiring more than water and sunshine is taking the piss, personally...


Does that work? happy to give it a try.


Urea is a great source of nitrogen, so yes it does work. †


Might start with those in the back garden rather than the hanging baskets out front.
Boxer6

Tim wrote:
Weegies also like to slip the word 'but' in at the end of sentences.


A particular 'favourite' round here is "know?". I think it's short for "you know" and it is incredibly annoying, especially when you've heard it for the 83rd time that day then start saying it yourself.

Know?
Scouse

'But it's Cash' as an excuse for offering approximately 50% of what a house is on the market for.
Roadsterstu

There is so much that irritates me that I don't know where to start!
Twelfth Monkey

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
It's the predictability of her banter that gets me:

VCM: 'So, how have you been preparing since your defeat by the Rancid Cow-Fuckers?'

Captain: 'We've been reading up on medieval folk dance, and investigating Cardiff's hostelries.' †

VCM: 'Everybody sing along - 1, 2, 3...'

The teams: 'I've got a brand new combine harvester...'


Anyone else see it last night? †I rest my fucking case...


Also, the music is almost deliberately 'aren't we cultured and clever' in its horribleness. †And my, they can be pedantic when they want but fudge it when it either suits them or they just get something wrong. †A gorilla is an ape, not a monkey, so the team answering the 'Chinese year of the...' question got it wrong.


Oh, and while I'm at it, the lines 'Your bill has changed', from the likes of Virgin Media. †You mean it's gone up, so say so, you cunts. †And under it saying 'The good stuff just keeps on coming', where you list some crap about getting awards and the like means jack shit to me. It just rubs in that unlike pretty much anything else on the planet, you can (and do) just charge what you feel like. †My initial contract with them was 'changed' (see the pattern here?) within 3-4 months. †

I'm erring on the rant, here...
PG

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Oh, and while I'm at it, the lines 'Your bill has changed', from the likes of Virgin Media. †.....


Generally annoying is all bills for utilities, phones etc seem to be needlessly complicated. Our Scottish Electric bill is a great case in point.  

If you pay monthly on dd, what you want to know is  -
How much you paid
The electric you used
The net balance owed / owing
plus your average monthly spend on power v what you pay.

So let's spread that over three pages of figures shall we?
JohnC

People who wait until the lights have changed to green before putting their phones down........then selecting a gear and slowly engaging the clutch and oh that's a shame, they have changed back to red.....now back to that text!
Humphrey The Pug

PG wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Oh, and while I'm at it, the lines 'Your bill has changed', from the likes of Virgin Media. †.....


Generally annoying is all bills for utilities, phones etc seem to be needlessly complicated. Our Scottish Electric bill is a great case in point. †

If you pay monthly on dd, what you want to know is †-
How much you paid
The electric you used
The net balance owed / owing
plus your average monthly spend on power v what you pay.

So let's spread that over three pages of figures shall we?


I wouldn't be surprised if they were as complicated as they are due to whatever watchdog that monitors them, instructing them to do so to make it "more transparent for consumers".

I deal with car finance, the paperwork is needlessly complicated in an effort to make things "clearer for consumers".
JohnC

The fact that every year I have to watch the renewal date for my phone contract and phone them up to get another deal.
I am actually very happy with the deal and every year I manage to get even more.....but why do I need to go through the hassle.

I was very happily on 600 minutes, unlimited texts and 2.5GB of data on a 12 mth sim only for £10.50 a month. If I hadn't done anything it would have reverted to 500 minutes, 500MB of data, unlimited texts and £14/mth which I would not be happy with.

So after a give me my PAC code phone call I have unlimited minutes, unlimited texts and 6GB of data for £10.80 which I am delighted with.
PG

If only life was that simple....


Frank Bullitt

Humphrey The Pug wrote:
PG wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Oh, and while I'm at it, the lines 'Your bill has changed', from the likes of Virgin Media. †.....


Generally annoying is all bills for utilities, phones etc seem to be needlessly complicated. Our Scottish Electric bill is a great case in point. †

If you pay monthly on dd, what you want to know is †-
How much you paid
The electric you used
The net balance owed / owing
plus your average monthly spend on power v what you pay.

So let's spread that over three pages of figures shall we?


I wouldn't be surprised if they were as complicated as they are due to whatever watchdog that monitors them, instructing them to do so to make it "more transparent for consumers".

I deal with car finance, the paperwork is needlessly complicated in an effort to make things "clearer for consumers".


I can only imagine how painful it is - we bought the new DS4 with cash and I had to sign about 15 documents.
Bob Sacamano

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Humphrey The Pug wrote:
PG wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Oh, and while I'm at it, the lines 'Your bill has changed', from the likes of Virgin Media. †.....


Generally annoying is all bills for utilities, phones etc seem to be needlessly complicated. Our Scottish Electric bill is a great case in point. †

If you pay monthly on dd, what you want to know is †-
How much you paid
The electric you used
The net balance owed / owing
plus your average monthly spend on power v what you pay.

So let's spread that over three pages of figures shall we?


I wouldn't be surprised if they were as complicated as they are due to whatever watchdog that monitors them, instructing them to do so to make it "more transparent for consumers".

I deal with car finance, the paperwork is needlessly complicated in an effort to make things "clearer for consumers".


I can only imagine how painful it is - we bought the new DS4 with cash and I had to sign about 15 documents.


Yeah that opens the whole "money laundering" can of worms.
PhilD

PG wrote:
If only life was that simple....




Memes irritate me  
Tim

Bob Sacamano wrote:

Yeah that opens the whole "money laundering" can of worms.


Money laundering makes me laugh, it's so haphazard.

We're re-doing our whole client base because they came across to us 2 years ago when the company was split off from the original parent.

Nobody in compliance, either internal or external, is prepared to give a definitive answer on how detailed the check should be for long-established clients who we're in regular contact with.
Thank god for 192!  
Scouse

Another irritant:
'Can I see a house please?'
Certainly, when would you like to go? Morning or Afternoon?
'Oh anytime'
Tomorrow at 11am?
'No, can't do then.'
Thursday at 4.30?
'No, can't do then'
Friday at 2pm?
'No, can't do then'
Saturday lunchtime?
'No, can't do then'
So when can you do?
'Like I said, anytime.......'
Humphrey The Pug

Scouse wrote:
Another irritant:
'Can I see a house please?'
Certainly, when would you like to go? Morning or Afternoon?
'Oh anytime'
Tomorrow at 11am?
'No, can't do then.'
Thursday at 4.30?
'No, can't do then'
Friday at 2pm?
'No, can't do then'
Saturday lunchtime?
'No, can't do then'
So when can you do?
'Like I said, anytime.......'


Lol, I get this quite often:

me: "hi there can I help?"
them: "I'm looking for a car"
me: "you've come to the right place, what are you looking for?"
them: "err not sure"
me: "ok, 3 or 5 door?"
them: "it doesn't matter"
me: "what size car?"
them: "doesn't matter"
me: "manual or automatic?"
them: "doesn't matter"
me: "diesel or petrol?"
them: "doesn't matter"
me: "what do you need the car to do for you?"
them: "errr this and that, you know"
me: "what sort of budget do you have?"
them: "depends on the car"

arghhhhhh!!

Another irritant is people who try and play a game; just tell me what you want to achieve and I'll see if I can do it, you be upfront with me and I'll be upfront with you, none of this "best price" bullshit, tell me straight out that you want the car for £5500 or you want the monthlies to be £250, it saves a whole heap of time and aggro for the both of us.
PhilD

Humphrey The Pug wrote:


Lol, I get this quite often:

me: "hi there can I help?"
them: "I'm looking for a car"
me: "you've come to the right place, what are you looking for?"
them: "err not sure"
me: "ok, 3 or 5 door?"
them: "it doesn't matter"
me: "what size car?"
them: "doesn't matter"
me: "manual or automatic?"
them: "doesn't matter"
me: "diesel or petrol?"
them: "doesn't matter"
me: "what do you need the car to do for you?"
them: "errr this and that, you know"
me: "what sort of budget do you have?"
them: "depends on the car"


Does that end with;

them: "Oh, you only have Renaults, I wanted an Audi"
Michael

Humphrey The Pug wrote:

Another irritant is people who try and play a game; just tell me what you want to achieve and I'll see if I can do it, you be upfront with me and I'll be upfront with you, none of this "best price" bullshit, tell me straight out that you want the car for £5500 or you want the monthlies to be £250, it saves a whole heap of time and aggro for the both of us.


Likewise you could just be upfront with them and say honestly this is the best I can do before any negotiations. The reason the game is played is because if cars were sold like that we wouldn't need salesmen.
PhilD

Michael wrote:


The reason the game is played is because if cars were sold like that we wouldn't need salesmen.


and that's bad because?

(sorry Humph!)
TreVoR

Michael wrote:
Humphrey The Pug wrote:

Another irritant is people who try and play a game; just tell me what you want to achieve and I'll see if I can do it, you be upfront with me and I'll be upfront with you, none of this "best price" bullshit, tell me straight out that you want the car for £5500 or you want the monthlies to be £250, it saves a whole heap of time and aggro for the both of us.


Likewise you could just be upfront with them and say honestly this is the best I can do before any negotiations. The reason the game is played is because if cars were sold like that we wouldn't need salesmen.


Yes. I am always wary if a salesman asks how much do you want to pay a month.  I could pay 200 a month for a Range Rover over 20 years and have been done over like a kipper.

The last new car I bought was the Legacy. I went with the cheapest internet quotes I could find and asked how close he could get to them.
Humphrey The Pug

TreVoR wrote:
Michael wrote:
Humphrey The Pug wrote:

Another irritant is people who try and play a game; just tell me what you want to achieve and I'll see if I can do it, you be upfront with me and I'll be upfront with you, none of this "best price" bullshit, tell me straight out that you want the car for £5500 or you want the monthlies to be £250, it saves a whole heap of time and aggro for the both of us.


Likewise you could just be upfront with them and say honestly this is the best I can do before any negotiations. The reason the game is played is because if cars were sold like that we wouldn't need salesmen.


Yes. I am always wary if a salesman asks how much do you want to pay a month. †I could pay 200 a month for a Range Rover over 20 years and have been done over like a kipper.

The last new car I bought was the Legacy. I went with the cheapest internet quotes I could find and asked how close he could get to them.


I never come out with "how much do you want to pay per month" in the first instance, if someone wants finance figures on a car and they want the car to have xyz spec, based on 8k PA with a £1000 dep I'll show them the figures, if they wince and say "£160, that is too much" then I'll ask what they are looking to achieve and then I'll do my best to work out how we can get there, or close, by either changing spec, upping deposit, extending the term, etc.

If it's against a Vauxhall Corsa I'll just tell them to buy the Corsa as A) if they are looking at a Corsa they clearly don't really care what they drive and B) Vauxhall are almost always without exception miles cheaper than what we can do!!

If you come in with internet or Car Wow quotes then I'll see what I can do, just show me what you've found elsewhere rather than going round the houses.
Michael

This still is due to the sales environment created by the industry. Just stick your absolute lowest price in the window outlining exactly what the buyer can expect and it won't happen anymore.
Martin

Just make list prices the best price, that would be even clearer for everyone.
TreVoR

It's a shame the Car Salesman Thread on PH was made private. It was a good read as it gave some insight into why you get treated like a cock by certain manufacturer's dealers. There were too many trolls so it got made private.
JohnC

Martin wrote:
Just make list prices the best price, that would be even clearer for everyone.


And reduce the Benefit in Kind charge. Some clients just don't understand why the BIK isn't based on what they pay for the car but on the list price. I had a client recently who bought a virtually new Mini as a company car - she was seriously miffed when I told her that she would have the same BIK as she would have done had she bought a new one, despite the £5K difference in price. If only she'd asked but as she said, it makes no sense so she couldn't see how there would be a problem.
Bob Sacamano

Michael wrote:
This still is due to the sales environment created by the industry. Just stick your absolute lowest price in the window outlining exactly what the buyer can expect and it won't happen anymore.


Why would you give away the majority of your profit the moment someone walks in the door?

If you were selling your house would you offer it at the absolute minimum you would accept straight off?
Michael

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Michael wrote:
This still is due to the sales environment created by the industry. Just stick your absolute lowest price in the window outlining exactly what the buyer can expect and it won't happen anymore.


Why would you give away the majority of your profit the moment someone walks in the door?

If you were selling your house would you offer it at the absolute minimum you would accept straight off?


You might do that if you didn't want people to play the game of trying to get the best price. Have you been following this thread?
Martin

Whenever I get quotes (work or home), I make it clear that I expect the best price, not the first price at the start of a negotiation.   If they come back with a better price later on in the process, they won't get the business the majority of the time as they've not responded properly and/or have been dishonest.

When buying a car I figure it all out up front and present a price I'm prepared to pay.  If the dealer can't get to that price it's fine, they have to make a certain profit and I would give them an opportunity in the future
.
Bob Sacamano

Michael wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
Michael wrote:
This still is due to the sales environment created by the industry. Just stick your absolute lowest price in the window outlining exactly what the buyer can expect and it won't happen anymore.


Why would you give away the majority of your profit the moment someone walks in the door?

If you were selling your house would you offer it at the absolute minimum you would accept straight off?


You might do that if you didn't want people to play the game of trying to get the best price. Have you been following this thread?


Yes, I was just puzzled by the naivety displayed in relation to human nature and the way the car industry works.
Michael

No naivety at all. But if you're going to complain about people trying to get the best deal accept it's an environment created by the industry that ultimately benefits the salesman.
Roadsterstu

Michael wrote:
This still is due to the sales environment created by the industry. Just stick your absolute lowest price in the window outlining exactly what the buyer can expect and it won't happen anymore.


The same could apply to house sales. Why have this backwards and forwards bullshit? The house is 198,500, fixed price. If you want it, that's the price. If you don't like the price, go elsewhere.
Roadsterstu

Michael wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
Michael wrote:
This still is due to the sales environment created by the industry. Just stick your absolute lowest price in the window outlining exactly what the buyer can expect and it won't happen anymore.


Why would you give away the majority of your profit the moment someone walks in the door?

If you were selling your house would you offer it at the absolute minimum you would accept straight off?


You might do that if you didn't want people to play the game of trying to get the best price. Have you been following this thread?


I didn't read the entire thread before making my previous post  
Bob Sacamano

Michael wrote:
No naivety at all. But if you're going to complain about people trying to get the best deal accept it's an environment created by the industry that ultimately benefits the salesman.


I don't agree it's an environment created entirely by the industry. Car purchases are usually the second most expensive item someone will purchase and many people will want to haggle.

Anyway, you're contradicting yourself by saying just quote the best price before negotiations (so it isn't the best price?), and then saying put the lowest price on the windscreen - but the lowest price a dealership can go to is subject to a number of variables so they can really only quote either the Manufacturers' List Price or a particular deal they are doing.

Do you not haggle over the cost of tyres, servicing, phone and TV packages etc?
Frank Bullitt

Michael wrote:
No naivety at all. But if you're going to complain about people trying to get the best deal accept it's an environment created by the industry that ultimately benefits the salesman.


Agreed - it's either a game of genitalia jousting or an honest process, it can't be set up for the former but bemoan the lack of the latter.

When we bought the DS4 two dealers, including the one we did business with, originally put a deal together that was the very best possible; on both occasions when I presented a part ex offer from a dealer on our car which was £500 and £400 better respectively they matched it without a flinch (well, apart from the 'I need to speak to the boss I will call you back' shenanigans).

John's point about new car prices and the impact on BIK is very pertinent - I don't know how or when but the UK CEO of CitroŽn has confirmed the brand will move to a fixed-priced model at a lower (ie typical discounted) level.
Michael

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Michael wrote:
No naivety at all. But if you're going to complain about people trying to get the best deal accept it's an environment created by the industry that ultimately benefits the salesman.


I don't agree it's an environment created entirely by the industry. Car purchases are usually the second most expensive item someone will purchase and many people will want to haggle.

Anyway, you're contradicting yourself by saying just quote the best price before negotiations (so it isn't the best price?), and then saying put the lowest price on the windscreen - but the lowest price a dealership can go to is subject to a number of variables so they can really only quote either the Manufacturers' List Price or a particular deal they are doing.

Do you not haggle over the cost of tyres, servicing, phone and TV packages etc?


I don't complain that customers do  
Bob Sacamano

Michael wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
Michael wrote:
No naivety at all. But if you're going to complain about people trying to get the best deal accept it's an environment created by the industry that ultimately benefits the salesman.


I don't agree it's an environment created entirely by the industry. Car purchases are usually the second most expensive item someone will purchase and many people will want to haggle.

Anyway, you're contradicting yourself by saying just quote the best price before negotiations (so it isn't the best price?), and then saying put the lowest price on the windscreen - but the lowest price a dealership can go to is subject to a number of variables so they can really only quote either the Manufacturers' List Price or a particular deal they are doing.

Do you not haggle over the cost of tyres, servicing, phone and TV packages etc?


I don't complain that customers do †


I used to supply Asian businesses with cable and those guys love a haggle. I quite enjoyed it - I'd give them my best price about 3 times, getting cheaper all the time, and they'd still be looking for more.
Humphrey The Pug

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Michael wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
Michael wrote:
No naivety at all. But if you're going to complain about people trying to get the best deal accept it's an environment created by the industry that ultimately benefits the salesman.


I don't agree it's an environment created entirely by the industry. Car purchases are usually the second most expensive item someone will purchase and many people will want to haggle.

Anyway, you're contradicting yourself by saying just quote the best price before negotiations (so it isn't the best price?), and then saying put the lowest price on the windscreen - but the lowest price a dealership can go to is subject to a number of variables so they can really only quote either the Manufacturers' List Price or a particular deal they are doing.

Do you not haggle over the cost of tyres, servicing, phone and TV packages etc?


I don't complain that customers do †


I used to supply Asian businesses with cable and those guys love a haggle. I quite enjoyed it - I'd give them my best price about 3 times, getting cheaper all the time, and they'd still be looking for more.


Asians, as in Pakistani origin, are an absolute nightmare to deal with, they will literally just breeze past a car on the forecourt and come straight out with "best price?", they haven't even looked at it properly, then they will just point to another random car and ask for the "best price" on that.

I remember years ago we had the only pre reg Grand Scenic Bose EDC in the UK, had a pair of Asian gentlemen phone in on it, making an appointment to see it, they had come from miles away.

Straightaway they were after £2500 off it as that is all they could afford, we laughed and said no, after much to-ing and fro-ing and phone calls between them and family we sold it for the price that it was up for but threw in the tax; took a couple of hours though.

One thing that I like about them is you can be direct with them with no fannying about, however you cannot rest until the car has been paid for and gone as they will most likely try another haggle when they come to pay for it.
Bob Sacamano

Humphrey The Pug wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
Michael wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
Michael wrote:
No naivety at all. But if you're going to complain about people trying to get the best deal accept it's an environment created by the industry that ultimately benefits the salesman.


I don't agree it's an environment created entirely by the industry. Car purchases are usually the second most expensive item someone will purchase and many people will want to haggle.

Anyway, you're contradicting yourself by saying just quote the best price before negotiations (so it isn't the best price?), and then saying put the lowest price on the windscreen - but the lowest price a dealership can go to is subject to a number of variables so they can really only quote either the Manufacturers' List Price or a particular deal they are doing.

Do you not haggle over the cost of tyres, servicing, phone and TV packages etc?


I don't complain that customers do †


I used to supply Asian businesses with cable and those guys love a haggle. I quite enjoyed it - I'd give them my best price about 3 times, getting cheaper all the time, and they'd still be looking for more.


Asians, as in Pakistani origin, are an absolute nightmare to deal with, they will literally just breeze past a car on the forecourt and come straight out with "best price?", they haven't even looked at it properly, then they will just point to another random car and ask for the "best price" on that.

I remember years ago we had the only pre reg Grand Scenic Bose EDC in the UK, had a pair of Asian gentlemen phone in on it, making an appointment to see it, they had come from miles away.

Straightaway they were after £2500 off it as that is all they could afford, we laughed and said no, after much to-ing and fro-ing and phone calls between them and family we sold it for the price that it was up for but threw in the tax; took a couple of hours though.

One thing that I like about them is you can be direct with them with no fannying about, however you cannot rest until the car has been paid for and gone as they will most likely try another haggle when they come to pay for it.


The trick is to say to the Pakistani gentleman; "I've already sold it to an Indian guy for x price" - pride will deem he must have that car and will pay more. And vice versa.
PhilD

Humphrey The Pug wrote:


Asians, as in Pakistani origin, are an absolute nightmare to deal with, they will literally just breeze past a car on the forecourt and come straight out with "best price?", they haven't even looked at it properly, then they will just point to another random car and ask for the "best price" on that.



In short; customer goes into car showroom and asks how much the cars are.

Shocking.

Humphrey The Pug

PhilD wrote:
Humphrey The Pug wrote:


Asians, as in Pakistani origin, are an absolute nightmare to deal with, they will literally just breeze past a car on the forecourt and come straight out with "best price?", they haven't even looked at it properly, then they will just point to another random car and ask for the "best price" on that.



In short; customer goes into car showroom and asks how much the cars are.

Shocking.



They are a bit different.
Scouse

Sellers who want to advertise their house as 'offers in excess of'. Then get miffed if offered only a very small anoint in excess.

Wankers
Tim

Scouse wrote:
Sellers who want to advertise their house as 'offers in excess of'. Then get miffed if offered only a very small anoint in excess.

Wankers


That is the Scottish system but it feels like a bit of a lottery.
It was especially bad in the mid 2000s.
Twelfth Monkey

Scouse wrote:
Sellers who want to advertise their house as 'offers in excess of'. Then get miffed if offered only a very small anoint in excess.

Wankers


Surely that tells you the minimum they're prepared to accept, so why wouldn't you offer as little as possible above it?
Roadsterstu

I cannot see any reason against fixed price house sales. Seller knows what they will get, buyer knows what they are paying, agent knows what they will get. Win win win.

Scouse?
Bob Sacamano

Roadsterstu wrote:
I cannot see any reason against fixed price house sales. Seller knows what they will get, buyer knows what they are paying, agent knows what they will get. Win win win.

Scouse?


So what happens if you put your house on the market for a fixed price of £300k but after 6 weeks or so it is apparent that the market locally is only realizing £280k for similar properties so someone offers you £280k - do you accept or do you dig your heels in and leave it on the market for another year or so until the prices lift to match your expectations?
Scouse

Roadsterstu wrote:
I cannot see any reason against fixed price house sales. Seller knows what they will get, buyer knows what they are paying, agent knows what they will get. Win win win.

Scouse?


People are greedy Wankers.

Fixed price very very rarely works as there is always someone selling something similar who will negotiate. And thanks to all the property programmes by the likes of Kirsty & Phil or Sarah Beeney every buyer wants a bargain and every seller wants to screw every penny out of their sale.
Agents always know pretty much what they will get within 50-100 quid.
Scouse

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Scouse wrote:
Sellers who want to advertise their house as 'offers in excess of'. Then get miffed if offered only a very small anoint in excess.

Wankers


Surely that tells you the minimum they're prepared to accept, so why wouldn't you offer as little as possible above it?


You'd think so wouldn't you? But you get people who actually want 10-15% more than their minimum price and think that by putting it up at 'offers in excess of £200k' they're are going to get people fighting over it. In reality people offer as little as possible over.


And 12 weeks later it comes off the market unsold because I haven't done my job properly
Twelfth Monkey

You can't help some people, can you?
JohnC

Clients who say "How hard can it be" and decide to do something themselves instead of paying us. They invariably get indignant when I have to tell them after the 2nd or 3rd phone call that we will need to charge them if they want any more advice/help to do what was apparently, so easy!
Twelfth Monkey

Everything's easy when you have an unpaid expert at hand...
Roadsterstu

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Roadsterstu wrote:
I cannot see any reason against fixed price house sales. Seller knows what they will get, buyer knows what they are paying, agent knows what they will get. Win win win.

Scouse?


So what happens if you put your house on the market for a fixed price of £300k but after 6 weeks or so it is apparent that the market locally is only realizing £280k for similar properties so someone offers you £280k - do you accept or do you dig your heels in and leave it on the market for another year or so until the prices lift to match your expectations?


Given the amount of   price information accessible via the likes of Rightmove, you set it at a realistic level. Although I guess some people are incapable of being realistic.
Frank Bullitt

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Scouse wrote:
Sellers who want to advertise their house as 'offers in excess of'. Then get miffed if offered only a very small anoint in excess.

Wankers


Surely that tells you the minimum they're prepared to accept, so why wouldn't you offer as little as possible above it?


When we put our home on the market earlier this year two of the agents suggested a 'offers over' and gave figures close to each other, the third agent told us they thought it was worth 'X', about 7-8% higher than the others and agreed a fee scale which meant that they were confident it would get to that figure - and it did. Shame we couldn't find anything else we liked.
PhilD

Roadsterstu wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
Roadsterstu wrote:
I cannot see any reason against fixed price house sales. Seller knows what they will get, buyer knows what they are paying, agent knows what they will get. Win win win.

Scouse?


So what happens if you put your house on the market for a fixed price of £300k but after 6 weeks or so it is apparent that the market locally is only realizing £280k for similar properties so someone offers you £280k - do you accept or do you dig your heels in and leave it on the market for another year or so until the prices lift to match your expectations?


Given the amount of † price information accessible via the likes of Rightmove, you set it at a realistic level. Although I guess some people are incapable of being realistic.


Fixed price, realistic level, etc. Round my way it changes daily -  using Bob's example if I'd not sold my house in 6 months I'd want to re-advertise it for 50% more!
Frank Bullitt

Roadsterstu wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
Roadsterstu wrote:
I cannot see any reason against fixed price house sales. Seller knows what they will get, buyer knows what they are paying, agent knows what they will get. Win win win.

Scouse?


So what happens if you put your house on the market for a fixed price of £300k but after 6 weeks or so it is apparent that the market locally is only realizing £280k for similar properties so someone offers you £280k - do you accept or do you dig your heels in and leave it on the market for another year or so until the prices lift to match your expectations?


Given the amount of † price information accessible via the likes of Rightmove, you set it at a realistic level. Although I guess some people are incapable of being realistic.


Problem is, in a rising market everyone thinks that they have something which makes their home worth more than the last one that sold, quite a few properties we looked at in late winter/early spring are still up for sale - this one was up for offers in excess of £350k, it has eventually recently dropped to under £300k, £10k at a time, and has sold;

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-54204868.html

I suspect had it been on for £320k in the spring I would have been on it like a rat up a drainpipe; at £300k and £50k needed to make it nice (the pictures give the impression it is merely dated, everything needs doing), somebody has got a decent buy, if somebody had paid £350k I'd suggest they needed sectioning.
Twelfth Monkey

That has 'pensioner' written onto every surface of every room, doesn't it?  You'd need to gut it and start again...
Tim

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
That has 'pensioner' written onto every surface of every room, doesn't it? †You'd need to gut it and start again...



That's not the worst I've seen but would certainly require a bit of money spent.

The pensioners who previously owned our house clearly had impeccable taste compared to the ones that owned that.
Frank Bullitt

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
That has 'pensioner' written onto every surface of every room, doesn't it? †You'd need to gut it and start again...


Former pensioner, I suspect!

All the ceilings were that horrid 70's polystyrene fire-fuel stuff - at £350k we couldn't justify the amount of work required for our budget and that would need doing on day 1, plus it didn't feel like the house could justify it either - from the pictures it appeared largely cosmetic.

I did hope they would keep the stair lift in though as that would be fun to dick about with!
Bob Sacamano

Frank Bullitt wrote:


I did hope they would keep the stair lift in though as that would be fun to dick about with!


Unless an ageing relative took that as a hint to move in, that is.  
Frank Bullitt

Good point - scrap the idea, although one of the downstairs rooms would have been a guest bedroom so perhaps the bullet has been dodged completely!
PG

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
That has 'pensioner' written onto every surface of every room, doesn't it? †You'd need to gut it and start again...


I think after one look at that carpet and decoration combo, anybody on a viewing would be blinded.



Not so much gut as fire bomb and start again?
PhilD

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
That has 'pensioner' written onto every surface of every room, doesn't it? †You'd need to gut it and start again...


What does this have written all over it 12th?

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/41562927#QvbOVHBKy51vMaqD.97
Twelfth Monkey

PhilD wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
That has 'pensioner' written onto every surface of every room, doesn't it? †You'd need to gut it and start again...


What does this have written all over it 12th?

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/41562927#QvbOVHBKy51vMaqD.97


Arsehole? †Who else would put one pair of speakers upside down on top of another?



Seriously, what a horrible house.  And £1.2m?  You Londoners, you're 'avin a larf...


PG, that was the room that made me feel I had to comment!
PhilD

Thats worse than the 4th pic?! and 12th that's a bargain!
Bob Sacamano

PhilD wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
That has 'pensioner' written onto every surface of every room, doesn't it? †You'd need to gut it and start again...


What does this have written all over it 12th?

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/41562927#QvbOVHBKy51vMaqD.97


Fuck me! That 4th photo. †

£1.2 million for a semi.  
Tim

Bob Sacamano wrote:
PhilD wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
That has 'pensioner' written onto every surface of every room, doesn't it? †You'd need to gut it and start again...


What does this have written all over it 12th?

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/41562927#QvbOVHBKy51vMaqD.97


Fuck me! That 4th photo. †

£1.2 million for a semi. †


Wow they've really made the most of that for selling haven't they  
What's with the gloss paint on the staircase walls!
Twelfth Monkey

PhilD wrote:
Thats worse than the 4th pic?! and 12th that's a bargain!


It might be the going rate, but a bargain?  In most parts of the country, you could buy something more than nice and retire on the change.  So mmm, which is it to be...?
Frank Bullitt

PG wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
That has 'pensioner' written onto every surface of every room, doesn't it? †You'd need to gut it and start again...


I think after one look at that carpet and decoration combo, anybody on a viewing would be blinded.



Not so much gut as fire bomb and start again?


At least that room was only superficial (it's a later 1980's extension to the original home), the boiler alone was a work of art/ thing of nightmares (delete as appropriate).

At least it had a nice electric roller garage door!
PhilD

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
PhilD wrote:
Thats worse than the 4th pic?! and 12th that's a bargain!


It might be the going rate, but a bargain? †In most parts of the country, you could buy something more than nice and retire on the change. †So mmm, which is it to be...?


For the size and potential it could be, but I don't know the area.

And best not start up the whole London v the backwaters debate again eh...

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