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garry

President Blair

Don't know about the rest of you, but the idea of Blair becoming President of Europe fills me with dread.

William Hague - perhaps the best speech maker in the house gives a knockout performance here on the topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6Cj1b-rp1E
gonnabuildabuggy

Fantastic - worthy of "have I got news for you" - watching Miliband laugh at this was priceless.

Personally I'd have Hague as the Leader of the Conservatives is many ways, I think he's more credible as a man of the people.
DaveGibson

It would be typical of the way we operate in the EU. Take a failed/rejected/corrupt (if necessary, delete as appropriate) British politician and promote the bugger so he/she has more power over us than our electorate would ever allow.
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

I'd be interested to know from the anti-EU types on here how you think Britain could exist outside the EU. We complain about Brussels bureaucracy (much of which is invented by the Daily mail anyway), but what we ought to be doing is engaging more fully in Europe, using our position as one of the largest and richest countries to influence the direction of the EU as a whole. One thing Cameron should be trying to do is forming a good relationship with Merkel, to try and create an Anglo-German rather than Franco-German power centre. Shame the Tories instead have allied themselves with a bunch of nasty East European fascists. That was largely Mr Hague's doing, I believe ...
Big Blue

I'm a pro-European and have been for some time and agree with Nick's comments. The sooner we start thinking as Europeans and not like little islanders the better. In fact the sooner we do that then the sooner English will become the officially accepted language and we can all take our skills to the wider market as individuals without having to learn a language as well as a profession.
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Big Blue wrote:
In fact the sooner we do that then the sooner English will become the officially accepted language and we can all take our skills to the wider market as individuals without having to learn a language as well as a profession.

Some of us are already doing that!

gonnabuildabuggy

Big Blue wrote:
I'm a pro-European and have been for some time and agree with Nick's comments. The sooner we start thinking as Europeans and not like little islanders the better. In fact the sooner we do that then the sooner English will become the officially accepted language and we can all take our skills to the wider market as individuals without having to learn a language as well as a profession.


English is the official langguage of the multi-nat's I work for and I could have worked in Germany or Sweden without any need to learn the local language.

When I used to go to Holland they didn't even bother dubbing some of the UK TV programmes shown.

I agree that we should be pro-active in playing a part, but not in handing over financial freedom - ask Eire how it feels to get out of a recession with no power over currency.
DetmoldDick

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:

English is the official langguage of the multi-nat's I work for and I could have worked in Germany or Sweden without any need to learn the local language.



LOL first you should learn your own.

N.O.M.
gonnabuildabuggy

I always mis-spell so foreigners think that their English must be wrong.  

Can't be posting for appalling spelling and switching spelling (I'd put "there" first time), twitter must be evan wors.
DaveGibson

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
......  When I used to go to Holland they didn't even bother dubbing some of the UK TV programmes shown.........

When we did some business with a Dutch company, one of my colleagues apologised for being unable to speak Dutch to a visitor from our customer, whose response was "Who the hell wants to speak Dutch.".

It's actually very interesting not to admit that you can speak the language and then listen to what they are saying, as I once did with a German customer.
Mike Amos

The thought of president bleugh is sufficient to encourage even more thoughts of a damn good revolution.  Along with the turd word he managed to completely fritter away any surplus we may have had, and for no good return.  In europe as president, what could either of these two wasters NOT manage to screw up.
Big Blue

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:


I agree that we should be pro-active in playing a part, but not in handing over financial freedom - ask Eire how it feels to get out of a recession with no power over currency.


Ah, there lies the problem. There is no way out when you've retained national identity whilst trying to be integrated. Those in Eire and Portugal had a problem in trying to be mobile across Europe when other European states are protectionist towards nationals (Germany / Italy / France) and other states are in a completely different economic climate due to taxation and economy (ie: Slovakia is in the Euro zone but I can still buy a house with my credit card limit; my dentist there still costs less than my lunch in England does etc etc......)

So until Europe becomes "Europe" all the individual states will continue to be fecked. It's either another war (trade or military) or total integration if it's to work. Some states know this: France has all of its Francs stored and Germany has all its Deutschmarks hidden in vaults, ready for when a split comes when the European nation doesn't happen.
scamper

Big Blue wrote:
Some states know this: France has all of its Francs stored and Germany has all its Deutschmarks hidden in vaults, ready for when a split comes when the European nation doesn't happen.


Seems the UK knows this too but is one step ahead!

If Germany etc are protectionist towards its nationals from an economic point of view, Europe as one `country' is more likely to  fail.  Although surely there is a fine line between being protectionist and illegal under EU law.
Racing

I don't mind the idea of President Blair.
Boxer6

DaveGibson wrote:
 
It's actually very interesting not to admit that you can speak the language and then listen to what they are saying, as I once did with a German customer.


I've often thought it would be interesting to sit in a Chinese/Indian/whatever restaurant and listen in to what the staff are talking about!!
DaveGibson

Boxer6 wrote:
..... I've often thought it would be interesting to sit in a Chinese/Indian/whatever restaurant and listen in to what the staff are talking about!!

"Look at those pillocks - they think that dog is chicken."  
Big Blue

DaveGibson wrote:
Boxer6 wrote:
..... I've often thought it would be interesting to sit in a Chinese/Indian/whatever restaurant and listen in to what the staff are talking about!!

"Look at those pillocks - they think that dog is chicken."  


"The guy on table 2 has just used the toilet. Fetch the bowl to collect the massala sauce as he flushes"
PG

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
I'd be interested to know from the anti-EU types on here how you think Britain could exist outside the EU.


So if I understand that right, you are saying that the UK (admittedly using 2006 figures), as the 4th largest economy in the world by GDP, 6th largest by measured purchasing power, 3rd largest exporter (visibles and invisibles), 8th largest exporter of visibles, that holds a permanent seat on the UN security council and is a large net contributor to the EU budget, can only survive by being part of the EU?

But to be serious, free trade in the EU is a good thing. But from working in Europe I realise that the UK is very different in its outlook, culture and approach to the rest of the EU. That's why the EU as a free trade zone with free movement of labour too, can work very well.
Roadsterstu

Racing wrote:
I don't mind the idea of President Blair.


Sorry, could you speak up a little?
Scouse

Racing wrote:
I don't mind the idea of President Blair.


Neither do I as long as it means there's more chance of him and that hateful harridan he's married to being in the sights of an assasin.
Big Blue

PG wrote:
Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
I'd be interested to know from the anti-EU types on here how you think Britain could exist outside the EU.


So if I understand that right, you are saying that the UK (admittedly using 2006 figures), as the 4th largest economy in the world by GDP, 6th largest by measured purchasing power, 3rd largest exporter (visibles and invisibles), 8th largest exporter of visibles, that holds a permanent seat on the UN security council and is a large net contributor to the EU budget, can only survive by being part of the EU?

But to be serious, free trade in the EU is a good thing. But from working in Europe I realise that the UK is very different in its outlook, culture and approach to the rest of the EU. That's why the EU as a free trade zone with free movement of labour too, can work very well.


If the EU still existed with the UK outside we'd have a restriction on our exports there (like all the stuff built by Japanese-owned companies that would suddenly start moving production out of the UK); the European-owned companies would stop supporting facilities here as there would be no EU grants to do so so our positions in the export tables would fall.

If it were a free trade zone, much would be as it is now but the UK is seen by France and Germany as a state that provides foreign currency as we're outside the Euro so they'd just work round that issue and contiue as the EU if the UK walked away.
'G'

The EU title of 'President' is not an title with any power. It is rather to draw attention away from it.

The first EU president will get the blame for all the teething problems. The fact he is British is merely bonus for the Franco-German alliance.
PG

Big Blue wrote:
If the EU still existed with the UK outside we'd have a restriction on our exports there


I think that's against GATT rules? And I don't really think that large Franco-German industrialised companies would like to see free trade between the rest of the EU and the UK stopped. We buy more BMWs, Mercs, Audis and Renaults off them than they buy Scotch Whiskey and financial services off us (the UK has a large and growing trade gap with the rest of the EU). Trade barriers would hardly be in the EU's interest.
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