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Clunes

Possible new car purchases - advice/help needed!

All,

So, my wife wants to replace the Discovery - it's been an awesome family vehicle but, as we expected, things are going wrong on a fairly regular basis and despite the vast majority being covered on warranty it needs some £ spending on it soon if we plan to keep it so she has been on the look out for a replacement.

Top of the list so far is an XC90 (new shape) and we both took one for a brief test drive earlier. Complete lack of steering feel aside I thought it drove very nicely for a big car - this is not something that will be flung around so overall it ticked many boxes on comfort, adequate power/performance, interior space, good spec, quality etc - it's a very nice car and I can see why they are proving to be so popular.

So...to my need for advice. If we went down this route we would have to take out finance - something we've not really ever done on our cars before - always having purchased them outright but that would not be an option here.

If we took out PCP then what is the general consensus on putting in high deposit to lower monthly vs. keeping deposit low and having higher monthly?

For example, we could use the Disco as deposit and the monthly PCP sits around £250 over a 36month period with a large final payment/GFV at the end.

Reducing the deposit to approx 20% of the sticker price comes out at around £500/month with the same GFV

Are there any clear advantages to the second option (apart from having more £ in hand which could go against a possible replacement for the Jag - that will be another thread!)

What are the pitfalls/things to watch for (if any) with PCP etc

Sorry for the dumb questions but I've never really looked into this before!

O.
Bob Sacamano

With PCPs generally the lower the deposit the better  - a higher deposit just has to be divided by the number of months and added to the monthly payment anyway to give a true figure.
JohnC

The perceived wisdom with PCP's is that you put as little as possible down but I reckon that depends a bit on interest rates. If they are doing a great interest rate on the PCP then a small deposit is the best way but if the rate is high(ish) then the more you put down the less interest you will pay. Remember that you will be paying interest on the whole outstanding balance including the balloon throughout the contract.

The downside of putting a big deposit down is that you have nothing left at the end of the contract and whilst it might have been a cheap 3 years motoring, anything after that is going to need to be a much cheaper vehicle or a large increase in payments.
Humphrey The Pug

JohnC wrote:
The perceived wisdom with PCP's is that you put as little as possible down but I reckon that depends a bit on interest rates. If they are doing a great interest rate on the PCP then a small deposit is the best way but if the rate is high(ish) then the more you put down the less interest you will pay. Remember that you will be paying interest on the whole outstanding balance including the balloon throughout the contract.

The downside of putting a big deposit down is that you have nothing left at the end of the contract and whilst it might have been a cheap 3 years motoring, anything after that is going to need to be a much cheaper vehicle or a large increase in payments.


Pretty much all of that.

Particularly the last paragraph; when we took over this branch, 10 odd years ago now, when the PCP renewals filtered through we found that many were mis-sold/not clearly explained.

People were using their 3-4 year old, fully paid up car as a deposit and marvelling at the £150 a month payment, they were coming back at renewal time and calling us all names under the sun because their monthlies had nearly doubled; they didn't have the trade in this time to leave a large deposit thus resulting in low payments.
Clunes

Makes sense - thanks for the quick responses.

Regards interest rates the rate on a used car in the quote given is 8.9% APR Representative (4.58% fixed) so far higher than the new car offers:

A new XC90 can be financed at 5.9%

A bank loan can be had for around 3.4% for the approx amount we would need to cover the purchase. Even spreading the repayments over an extra year to bring the monthly outgoing in line with Volvo would cost significantly less in interest over the period.
JohnC

Clunes wrote:
Makes sense - thanks for the quick responses.

Regards interest rates the rate on a used car in the quote given is 8.9% APR Representative (4.58% fixed) so far higher than the new car offers:

A new XC90 can be financed at 5.9%

A bank loan can be had for around 3.4% for the approx amount we would need to cover the purchase. Even spreading the repayments over an extra year to bring the monthly outgoing in line with Volvo would cost significantly less in interest over the period.


and PCP's charge much more interest than good HP agreements even with low apr's because you are paying interest on the whole balloon payment. As you might imagine, I have a spreadsheet which works it all out if I plug in a few figures and I would imagine the difference in interest paid might be £2,000 or £3,000 between a PCP and HP, in HP's favour.

Another point though, is that if you HP the car, it is yours. If it is on PCP and it turns out to be a dog or depreciates like in freefall, you just give it back.
Nice Guy Eddie

Do you get a deposit contribution allowance from Volvo on a new xc90? If they do take out the finance, settle in full once taken delivery in your cooling off period and then use a personal loan at 3%apr or put onto the mortgage and then make overpayments. It's far cheaper than pcp and works better I feel you intend to keep the car
Clunes

No deposit contribution from Volvo and their PCP offer is a 9+35 at £499 with 10k miles

The Volvo offers on HP/PCP look to have the same APR but understand the point regarding total interest paid.

I did a quick search on one of the leasing sites and it appears there are slightly better deals e.g.

9+35 at 413.45 (with additional fee of £360) with 8k miles

or

6+35 at £460.82 (additional 300 fee) with 10k miles

Food for thought - we are not in a position to make a decision right away although my wife tends to make he mind up VERY quickly about things and is in danger of jumping in quickly. The dealer will be pushing but I think it's clear the finance deal on the used vehicle is not nearly as strong as the deal you can get on a new one!

Edited to add that Drivethedeal shows you can get about 9% off a new model through them
JohnC

If you want to buy the car you can get a personal loan as you have already identified or go to someone like Lombard or Black Rock who should be able to do deals around 5%apr on HP.
Martin

JohnC wrote:
The perceived wisdom with PCP's is that you put as little as possible down but I reckon that depends a bit on interest rates. If they are doing a great interest rate on the PCP then a small deposit is the best way but if the rate is high(ish) then the more you put down the less interest you will pay. Remember that you will be paying interest on the whole outstanding balance including the balloon throughout the contract.

The downside of putting a big deposit down is that you have nothing left at the end of the contract and whilst it might have been a cheap 3 years motoring, anything after that is going to need to be a much cheaper vehicle or a large increase in payments.


I agree, it makes sense to put down a decent deposit if the interest rate is higher than you're getting on your savings. † As long as you don't kid yourself about the true cost of the car and assume there won't be any value in it at the end of the term, you'll be fine.

It helps the man maths too, as it feels like you're paying less even though you know you aren't.
cbeaks1

How big does it have to be? Deals on the SQ5 are ok and you get 5 second 0-60.

PCH and then stuck all of the money from the Dico in the bank, or the mortgage, or coke and hookers.
Frank Bullitt

If you want to own it, HP over a longer term is a million times better than a PCP, especially used with the rubbish finance deals offered by manufacturers.
Roadrunner

Jaguar F-Pace?
Andy C

Roadrunner wrote:
Jaguar F-Pace?


Great shout
gooner

I imagine the Volvo is a completely different proposition to the F Pace and SQ5. The XC90 isn't really about driving thrills but rather the comfort of all occupants with a lack of steering feel unlikely to be noticed by all the yummy mummies who form a large part of its target market. I'd take the Jag or the Audi any day fo a B road blast but I suspect that's not something Clunes wife gets up to very often!

I'm no expert but given that you normally buy cars outright, is it better to get a personal loan at a lower interest rate so that you are the owner of the car from the start?
Michael

The Volvo interior is also a lot nicer and bigger than that of the F-Pace.
Clunes

We will look at the F-Pace but I expect it will be ruled out for being too small despite having a larger boot than its rivals. The Disco and Volvo have significantly larger areas and whilst I've tried to convince the wife that we don't really need it I admit we use the Disco space regularly and it's extremely useful.

The Q5 has definitely been ruled out on size - Helen (my wife) likes them a lot but it's not too be.

She also likes the raised driving position of the Disco etc and prefers them to the more car like options - I expect this may be the downfall of the Jag.

Regards monies we will look at all options. Taking a PCP is predictable and having the Disco equity in the bank vs. Using as a deposit doesn't make a great deal of difference in the long run as it's unlikely to sit in the bank untouched for 3 yrs and we could save a good deposit over that time regardless.

Lots to think about though. Appreciate the thoughts. We may also look at the. New Disco but I expect that will be to rich for us based on the figures I've seen so far.
Clunes

Just to add, my wife is a pretty quick driver and whilst she's not that bothered by on the limit handling she certainly doesn't hang around - corners included!
JohnC

Any good deals on the old Disco's (on PCP of course to cut out the depreciation risk)
Frank Bullitt

Humphrey The Pug wrote:
JohnC wrote:


The downside of putting a big deposit down is that you have nothing left at the end of the contract and whilst it might have been a cheap 3 years motoring, anything after that is going to need to be a much cheaper vehicle or a large increase in payments.


Pretty much all of that.

Particularly the last paragraph; when we took over this branch, 10 odd years ago now, when the PCP renewals filtered through we found that many were mis-sold/not clearly explained.

People were using their 3-4 year old, fully paid up car as a deposit and marvelling at the £150 a month payment, they were coming back at renewal time and calling us all names under the sun because their monthlies had nearly doubled; they didn't have the trade in this time to leave a large deposit thus resulting in low payments.


I don't get this - are people all a bit special who go for PCP's? As you are paying interest on the whole outstanding amount put the biggest deposit down, have low monthly payments then bank the difference between what your repayments are and what they would have been with a low deposit to buy outright/ put down on the next car - as you are minimising your exposure to the interest rate it will always be cheaper.

I get why dealers would want you to pay a low deposit - more interest payments over the term unless they really do know that nobody is capable of saving that takes a PCP
Martin

The 535d is on a PCP and that's what I did / am doing. †I looked at various finance options (whole life cost) and it was the best for me at the time.  It might not be next time, but with the mileage I do and it being the old model when I come to change, having a decent GFV could work out pretty well.
JohnC

Frank Bullitt wrote:
I don't get this - are people all a bit special who go for PCP's? As you are paying interest on the whole outstanding amount put the biggest deposit down, have low monthly payments then bank the difference between what your repayments are and what they would have been with a low deposit to buy outright/ put down on the next car - as you are minimising your exposure to the interest rate it will always be cheaper.

I get why dealers would want you to pay a low deposit - more interest payments over the term unless they really do know that nobody is capable of saving that takes a PCP



The GFV is an important part of the equation in that the PCP gives you certainty of value and certainty of cost. However the most common reason people use a PCP and low deposit is that they have, say £400/mth to spend and they can get in to a new car every 2 or 3 years for that, which is considerably less than they would pay if they had to HP the same car from new with the same small deposit.

They don't think about the interest cost, they just think about the monthly payment - it's the live for today and worry about tomorrow later mentality.

I have also seen people do PCP and get cashback for their old car which then lets them put in a new kitchen or bathroom etc. Lots of reasons but on a cheapest overall finance cost basis, PCP seldom comes out on top unless the manufacturer is subsidising the PCP rates (BMW currently at 2.9% apr for example which could swing the calculation the other way)
Frank Bullitt

So in conclusion, it's not very savvy but it is nice.
Clunes

So keeping monthly payments low makes sense if you are sure you'll keep the car for the term, are not silly enough to assume there will be equity in the car at the end and are sensible enough to save the offset in monthly payments to try and build up a future deposit whilst living in full knowledge that future repayments could go up if you don't have a wad of cash to put down.

Or, get a loan and finance the whole thing yourself for a lower % and own the car outright.

If we go second hand I expect the latter option would be the best. We could probably finance £20k through the bank and pay less than the £499 PCP quote but would be paying off the whole amount.
Humphrey The Pug

If there are incentives for purchasing a new car on PCP; deposit contributions or service plans etc, another option is to sign up for the PCP, exercise your right to the 14 day cooling period; paying off the balance with a low interest loan from the bank, you will still retain all incentives, you will only have paid a few days interest.

The dealer won't be too pleased but that is their problem.

Another option is you may get a better deal on a late used/used car if you take out the dealer finance and do the same thing as above, just don't let on to the dealer that it is your intention to do so.
Frank Bullitt

Getting a nearly new one with a bank loan still gives you the chance to change it after 2-3 years, the finance isn't against the car and you can chose to pay it off and get another loan or take a deal on any car you are buying that is too good to miss.

I've taken a loan to buy our caravan, 5 years at 3.4% it was a no-brainer, the repayments are largely covered by the lower amount we now put in to the holiday account (as our summer holiday will be much cheaper) and unlike dealer finance, I can sell the caravan private then pay off the loan if we decide to at some point. The interest is about £600 over the term which is the square root of naff all.

Humphrey The Pug wrote:
Another option is you may get a better deal on a late used/used car if you take out the dealer finance and do the same thing as above, just don't let on to the dealer that it is your intention to do so.


When we were looking at the DS4 I mentioned this to a few dealers that I would be interested as cars from CitroŽn stock each had some sort of deposit contribution against them and two free services - the dealers were very relaxed but this might be because it was a CitroŽn UK contribution and not from the dealer themselves.
Racing Teatray

It's highly circumstance-specific.

For example, on the M135i, I put down £3k up-front. Currently, after 4 years, the difference between what I owe and part-ex is probably about £3k and I could clear nearer £5-6k in a private sale. So that's worked out reasonably well.

For a 440i now, a nearly new one is £38-40k from a dealer. A new one to my spec, discounted is £38k. APR is 2.9%, which is lower than a bank loan. GFV is £17k after 4 years, which is low enough to suggest you will see equity back absent world implosion in the interim. So another PCP for 4 years is very tempting.
cbeaks1

Frank Bullitt wrote:
So in conclusion, it's not very savvy but it is nice.


Options PCP on Ford (not RS or Mustang) is 0% at the moment so it is definately time/circumstance specific.
Clunes

No good PCP on run out discovery really but the wife has seen a 64 plate Disco not far away so we will take a look. It's a nice XS in a good colour with 15k miles  

Prices are strong as residuals have always been healthy for these but what are people's thoughts on the impact of future values with the new model arriving soon?
Racing Teatray

The alternative scenario is of course my wife's Fiat, which is apparently barely worth the set GFV after 3 years. Fortunately for us, it doesn't matter much as the balloon payment is only £5k (and she'll still have paid comfortably under list overall) and the car itself is still pretty much "as new" with 13k on the clock, plus it still fits the bill for now, so we might as well just pay the balloon and keep the car. But I can see how that could be annoying either (i) with a more expensive car or (ii) if you really needed to change your car.
Clunes

So,

It's looking like the scales are tipping in the direction of a newer Discovery to replace the current one - she really likes her current car and having seen and driven a newer one prefers it on balance to the Volvo.

It's definitely not as light to drive and feels it's age a little in some areas but overall it offers more of what she likes and having driven the newer model its certainly been improved over the 2010 model we have.

Small manner of funding the damn thing now and it almost certainly puts any thought of me changing the Jag on the back-burner for the time being (needs some TLC and to fix everything that potentially means a LOT of money on a car that is, frankly, not worth much so was contemplating change myself)

(In terms of finance we will probably just take a smaller loan to cover the gap and spread the payments over a few years, we have some US shares that we can sell and with the exchange rate it's a great time to sell US shares and bring the money in)
Michael

Clunes wrote:
No good PCP on run out discovery really but the wife has seen a 64 plate Disco not far away so we will take a look. It's a nice XS in a good colour with 15k miles †

Prices are strong as residuals have always been healthy for these but what are people's thoughts on the impact of future values with the new model arriving soon?


Would that have the newer gearbox? For me it transforms the car and it is usefully cheaper to tax. There are still build slots for the Discovery 4 but the specs have already been decided.
I think the values will hold up well as the cost of the new model is so much higher combined with the appeal of the current car probably maintaining loyal buyers for good ones. The XS has always been the pick of the range so is a a good choice.
Clunes

Yes,

The one we looked at was a 64 plate 'Discovery' and I believe it has the 8-speed gearbox which made the car feel far more responsive - it was the first thing my wife commented on within a few meters. The tax is lower as well due to the stop start bringing emissions down.
gonnabuildabuggy

have you looked at an X5 or older shape XC90?

If buying a new XC90 then PCP with £0 deposit if possible. I reckon once the "newness" wears off, residuals will fall a bit. Can easily see a car like that losing £20-£25K over 3 yrs (assuming £50K+ purchase cost)
Michael

Going from a Discovery 4 to a previous generation XC90 would be like going from an iPhone to a piece of string with a cup at each end.
PhilD

Michael wrote:

I think the values will hold up well as the cost of the new model is so much higher combined with the appeal of the current car probably maintaining loyal buyers for good ones. .


Both of them are going to be highly sought after!

If the new one is going up market (as the pics suggest) there will be a gap for the more utilitarian/hose down off-roader.
Clunes

We had an original XC90 prior to the Disco. Great car but definitely wouldn't go back. The X5 is no-where near as practical and not on the list.

Pretty certain it will be a Discovery. XS or HSE - the HSE Luxury we've seen is a lot more expensive (over £5k) but specced with everything inc in-seat screens etc. My gut is that the XS is better value and this is what we have today. Misses out on sunroofs, premium leather, front PDC, rear camera etc but nothing essential (sunroof would be a nice to have)

O.
PG

Clunes wrote:
Prices are strong as residuals have always been healthy for these but what are people's thoughts on the impact of future values with the new model arriving soon?


A nearly new Disco 4 sounds like a good decision.

I'd say that any effect on residuals (if any as they've always had good second hand values) would only be felt when there are plenty of the new model about and that usually takes at least 3 years from launch as that is when the first PCP's come back into the dealer network.
gonnabuildabuggy

Clunes wrote:
We had an original XC90 prior to the Disco. Great car but definitely wouldn't go back. The X5 is no-where near as practical and not on the list.

Pretty certain it will be a Discovery. XS or HSE - the HSE Luxury we've seen is a lot more expensive (over £5k) but specced with everything inc in-seat screens etc. My gut is that the XS is better value and this is what we have today. Misses out on sunroofs, premium leather, front PDC, rear camera etc but nothing essential (sunroof would be a nice to have)

O.


If you wait long enough then will there be deals on the runout model?

A mate has just got one to replace his Evoque which led me to think there were deals around already?

I'm suprised the X5 isn't as practical as the new XC90, a friend has just chosen one over a full fat RR reckoning it's more than enough for family duties and a better drive.
Clunes

A friend of ours recently priced up a run out Disco Landmark vs an XC90 Inscription and the list price (after discount) was about the same but the XC deals on a 5.9APR made it noticeably more affordable.

If we go the Disco route it will definitely be second hand in the '64' reg range.

The X5 boot space with all seats up is about 650 I think which is the same quoted size as an F-Pace (yet to see one up close) but some way short of the XC 90. The shape of the boot (especially with the Disco having no intrusions and a flat rear door plus more height) is as important when loading. We have our current Disco boot split with a grate which allows dogs on one side and then floor to roof loading on the other - we could get a grate for other vehicles of course but few, if any, have quite the space of the Disco and whilst it is perfectly possible to live with less it does come in handy and get used far more than I would have imagined.

Would be interested to know of your mate did get a good deal though
gonnabuildabuggy

Will ask him next time i see him.
Chip Butty

You probably know this - but if you buy an approved used Discovery, after having been through a comprehensive and industry leading 165 point inspection it will be sold with a comprehensive 2 year warranty and 2 years road side assistance under a 30 day exchange policy.

So - if you want a higher spec car that is a bit older, it's not much riskier than a younger, lower spec model.

FWIW - I've got a HSE currently and it's the perfect spec as standard. HSE Lux (now Landmark) is just extra tinsle which feels a bit excessive on a Truckosaurus (leather dash and door tops, tellies in the head rests, mental stereo and some other bollox).

All of the essentials (rear camera, full parky beep, electric memory heated seats, decent stereo) are present and correct.
Racing Teatray

I've never been a huge Disco fan, especially as they have got tinsellier with age but the new one does suddenly make the old one look positively to the manor born all of a sudden. Just don't get a black one.

London is stuffed with black LR products and, whilst I confess I currently own a black car and may buy another one, black LRs do just look wrong to me.
Nice Guy Eddie

It was the black Vogue Se and then LSE's back in the 80's and 90's that always stand out in my mind. Every other Rangie outside of London was green or brown or for the commuter belts of Surrey they were blue.
PhilD

Racing Teatray wrote:


London is stuffed with black LR products and, whilst I confess I currently own a black car and may buy another one, black LRs do just look wrong to me.


For the royal/presidential/despot look presumably.
PG

Racing Teatray wrote:
London is stuffed with black LR products and, whilst I confess I currently own a black car and may buy another one, black LRs do just look wrong to me.


I think black looks OK on the new RRS (but without the privacy glass, so that is never seen), but agree that on Discovery it looks wrong.

What I can't stand are all the white with black roofs and wheels fashion that seems to be all the rage on RR and RRS.
Frank Bullitt

Followed a 64-plate HSE Luxury yesterday which was way too blingy - it was 90-day White (not a colour that suits the Disco 4) with black wheels and drug dealer glass - there was a tidy car trying to get out. The driver had very-much a 'Neanderthal's other-half' look about her - Pat Butcher without the earrings, which did it no favours.
Chip Butty

Corris grey, 20 inch venoms and black interior  


Racing Teatray

Much better. Back when my father had Range Rovers, he had a Westminster Grey 3.9, then a 4.2 in Mosswood (a kind of greenish bronze) and finally an Oxford Blue 4.6.
Frank Bullitt

Yes, much nicer
Martin

The Butty Truck looks good.  It's nicer than the new model and has the best exterior and wheel colour for all the LR models.
Clunes

Your car is almost identical the ones we've been looking at. Actually there is an identical HSE with the same wheels on LR Approved.

Another option I saw was an SE Tech with electric seat and armrest pack plus reversing camera - seems to be a good spec as well

Edited to add - might try to look at this tomorrow

http://www.usedvehicles.landrover.co.uk/search#/details/2721533

Price seems largely in line with others - no idea what wiggle room there would be in something like this - it would be by far the most expensive car we've bought so not sure what sort of markup the dealer has in it.
Chip Butty

Depends on how much they had to spend to bring it up to APO condition, but trade is circa £36k I think.

If you like the car and it is perfect condition, I would go in at £38k and move up from there.
Clunes

Chip Butty wrote:
Depends on how much they had to spend to bring it up to APO condition, but trade is circa £36k I think.

If you like the car and it is perfect condition, I would go in at £38k and move up from there.


Thanks, really appreciate the insight
Frank Bullitt

Looks superb although my 'how much should a car cost' radar is definitely overdue a service - I'd mentally thought that was low 30's although it seems to be about the market.
Chip Butty

You should see how much the earliest 59 plate Disco 4s go for - even at 180k miles plus they are £12k.
TreVoR

Good Disco 3s in a high spec with average miles are also about £10-12k.
PG

From what age do disco's drop to 213 carbons?
Clunes

So,

We viewed the car and minus a few small cosmetic issues (which they promised would be resolved) it was in great condition and looked and drove well, as expected for a low mileage approved vehicle.

They offered a low trade in on our current Disco (a lot lower than Volvo) but to be fair they were honest an upfront about it and admitted it would go straight to auction and were just trying to cover exposure) so that leaves us with a bigger gap than we want but they are working some figures.

So far they have offered £1k deposit contribution on a finance deal (min £10k PCP) which we would be free to pay off in cooling period or after 6months with no penalty.

I'm pretty sure they might offer an extended warranty as well (extra year which lists at £899) and I have stated I want some movement on the list price as well.

We had to leave so they are working up numbers and decisions will be made later.

O.
JohnC

What would We Buy Any Car give you for your current car?

Don't believe all the stories of them beating you down on price - they will but maybe by a couple of hundred if there is work needed on the car. If they are offering £1,000 more than the dealer it is worth the hassle.
Nice Guy Eddie

If you were looking at a new Volvo than to be fair to the JLR dealer, your not comparing apples with apples. Volvo might have had new car margin or conquest allowance added onto the p/x. As John says run a WBAC quote and I'd be wanting that at least. LR Disco 4's must be making strong money at the Auction so wouldn't be letting you car go cheap.
Clunes

We ran a WBAC a while back so already know that figure. LR are some way below it so we are weighing options and agree we don't want to let things go too cheap simply for convenience. I think there is a WBAC place nearby so might be able to do something fairly easily. Even if they knock things down there is somewhere approaching a 1k difference. We also got offered close to WBAC at another place so know we can do better than LR.
JohnC

WBAC are owned by an auction group (can't remember which one) to help provide good quality cars to auction for dealers. If WBAC are prepared to offer X, you can be sure they would expect to get X+ at auction, so JLR are just taking the mickey.

I think I would take the figure you want to pay for the Disco, subtract the figure you want for your car and phone them and tell them they have a deal if they will do it for £Z to change including a year's extended warranty. Make sure you get the apr for any finance agreement and look for sub 5% unless you are certain you will pay it off in the cooling down period.
Tim

JohnC wrote:
WBAC are owned by an auction group (can't remember which one) to help provide good quality cars to auction for dealers.


BCA
Clunes

The APR to get the additional £1000 deposit contribution is 10.9 non negotiable. Zero penalty after 6months or, as you say, in the cooling down period.

They came back with extended warranty but no shifting on the price yet and no movement on the p/x. I've asked them to go back and bring another offer to the table.

Thy are clearly interested in pushing finance as this was the first thing they said when I questioned the offer 'we might be able to do more if you finance more'

I'm not a born negotiator to be honest so am trying to be fair - the wife is keen on the car so I'd like to get to a deal.

I'd consider taking finance on a bigger chunk and paying down quickly if it helped the deal
gooner

Is there a similar model elsewhere within JLR approved scheme? If you can get a better deal from another dealer it might be worth a look. Even if they're further away, they might be more than happy to deliver it to you if they're nicking a sale from a rival dealer.
Clunes

gooner wrote:
Is there a similar model elsewhere within JLR approved scheme? If you can get a better deal from another dealer it might be worth a look. Even if they're further away, they might be more than happy to deliver it to you if they're nicking a sale from a rival dealer.


There is one very similar the same distance from us so certainly worth considering.

JLR are playing around a bit - we did get another offer which has reduced the sticker price by £500 and includes warranty (£600 option) which is closer but no movement on trade in. In addition, the new offer is conditional on a different finance deal which actually looks more like an oddly structured Hire Purchase with 10.9% FLAT rate - so the credit/interest cost is absurd over the full term.

I need to go back as the offer they have across all LR approved at the moment specifically states the £1000 dealer deposit is on a 10.9APR deal and PCP so it feels like they are messing.

I'm happier with the reduction in sticker price and the additional warranty but not the messing around with finance.

Counter offer will be going back I think in the manner John suggests - give them a figure to change and see what happens. Their £1k contribution offer only lasts until Monday so convincing the wife to hold off (now she has seen the car and wants it she will want to move fast) is going to be the hardest thing.
Chip Butty

Just to be clear - it's a 3rd year of warranty you are asking them to add ? They aren't trying to charge you for a 2nd year ?

I assume you've checked the tyres and they have plenty of meat left on them ?
Clunes

Chip Butty wrote:
Just to be clear - it's a 3rd year of warranty you are asking them to add ? They aren't trying to charge you for a 2nd year ?

I assume you've checked the tyres and they have plenty of meat left on them ?


Yes,  additional (3rd) year above the 2 that are standard.

Tyres are good.

I'm going back with a counter offer and asking for no more silly buggers with flat rates etc.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

10.9 percent finance........ spot the giraffe !
No way should you be paying that unless you really, really want that car
Clunes

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
10.9 percent finance........ spot the giraffe !
No way should you be paying that unless you really, really want that car


Agreed and we wouldn't consider paying it if we were running finance for the full term but would agree to the finance in order to get the £1000 dealer contribution and then exit the finance deal early.

Even if we payed 6 months of the repayments we would pay less interest than the £1k contribution (and there are no penalties for exiting after 6 months). We could then easily move onto a small bank loan for around 3.5% at that point (or in the 14 day cooling off period) and pay off the rest.

It's likely we will put down somewhere in the region of 25k initially (including part ex) so the remaining finance is not horrendous and something we could secure a loan on over 3/4yrs at a very affordable monthly. We may end up funding more but are just weighing up things.
gonnabuildabuggy

Clunes wrote:

I'm not a born negotiator to be honest so am trying to be fair - the wife is keen on the car so I'd like to get to a deal.


Are there other similar cars in the network? We managed to knock a fair bit of the FRV by playing two dealers off against themselves on similar cars. Neither had been seen but we knew we wanted an FRV and the spec so the only caveat was that it as "as described" when we were to collect and pay.

I think you're problem is the wife's keeness, as much as the dealer. If she's looking keen then they know they're half way there with you.

One final thought.....all this Brexit stuff will kick in fully in the new year, you may well get a better deal then, especially when the new model is out and any second hand ones are "the old model", there may also be a glut of nearly news coming onto the market with people trading into the newer model.

I don't think it would cost you anything to wait 3 months or so.
JohnC

I'd be careful about the "no penalty after 6 mths"

Make sure that doesn't mean no additional penalty over and above all the interest for the whole period.

With a personal loan or HP, all the interest for the full term is added on up front and if you repay the loan early, you are effectively paying off all the interest plus the capital so there is no point (although you can sometimes get a small interest credit). I know this is a PCP but the principle remains the same.

You need to check the small print because some salesmen will tell you whatever you need to hear to make you sign the deal.

e.g. if you borrow £15K over 3 years that is £416.67/mth capital. With 10.9% apr the monthly payments are likely to be c£485/mth. If you repay after 6 mths are you repaying 30 x £416.67 or 30 x £485? †The interest will be calculated on the sum of the digits basis so the figures won't be the same but I am sure you can understand the principle.
With the £1,000 rebate the effective rate of interest is nearer 6.5%apr on £15,000.
JohnC

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:

One final thought.....all this Brexit stuff will kick in fully in the new year, you may well get a better deal then, especially when the new model is out and any second hand ones are "the old model", there may also be a glut of nearly news coming onto the market with people trading into the newer model.

I don't think it would cost you anything to wait 3 months or so.


I'd agree with that. I walked away from my current car and got a phone call a few weeks later with £3k off the price. End of the month is also a better time to be hard ball negotiating.
gonnabuildabuggy

New model starts from £43K supposedly.

I'd definitely hang on until the new model comes out if you're buying a used one.[/i]
Clunes

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
New model starts from £43K supposedly.

I'd definitely hang on until the new model comes out if you're buying a used one.[/i]


Just over £43 yes but with a reasonable spec (not going crazy) it's well over £50k and as others have said it will probably be a couple of years until they start appearing on the second hand market and driving current model prices down. From what I've seen I prefer the more utilitarian look of the current model to the new from the outside and whilst I've no doubt the interior will be nicer the current is a good place to sit.

We aren't considering the new one really and the spec of the one we are getting would be £60k plus in the new - OH, and the wife isn't a big fan of the looks either.

So, it will be a second hand current model - almost certainly a grey HSE as that is a good colour and spec and probably the sweet spot on the second hand market.

Not rushing but it's good to know what we want.

Next step my car!!
JohnC

I thought you must have bought that car because the link stopped working. Good luck with the double search.

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