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Clunes

Possible new car purchase - round 2 - Decision Made!

So,

With the wife now settled on what she wants thought can turn to a possible (but by no means certain) replacement for the Jag.

I had actually mentioned to the OH that I was considering a change a little while back which was rather stupid in hindsight as it triggered her itch and the cars she is looking at are more than we would normally go for which leaves me in a different position regards a replacement for mine.

Why the thoughts of change?

In short, a growing lack of confidence in the car and some expensive work that needs done (at some point) are combining to make me think it's a decent time to exit the Jag and move into something else.

The reversing cam recently went (should be a simple fix but need to find the time to get to the wiring), the drivers heated seat packed in (possible wiring again but prob needs seat out to check properly), there is a vibration from the front under sharp left turns which could point to a few issues and recently there is a short rattle on startup from cold which is most likely the VVT units leaking down when it stands (after a second oil pressure is back and all is good with the world) - this would be a major job and the costs associated. The tyres don't have a ton of life left either so to sort all that and some minor cosmetic issues we're probably in the good % of an ALF on costs.

So - the dilemma is sink some money into the Jag and keep for a few more years to get value out of the investment or trade it in for a newer car with some warranty and/or other peace of mind.

Things I like about the Jag
- Feeling of luxury - the interior design is not to all tastes but the leather dash, doors etc makes it a nice place to spend time and its refined
- Toys - It has a lot of FG - and I have become accustomed to it, keyless access, heated seats/wheel, DAB etc
- Ride/handling balance - Rides well even on 20"s - I don't want a back breaking ride
- Performance - 420ish BHP and a chunk of torque is nice and I am used to it and wouldn't want to move to anything that felt significantly slower
- Noise - It's a nice cultured rumble and I do enjoy it - it adds to the experience
- Image - I'm not a huge badge snob but am secure enough in myself to admit I like a car that has a premium image now. It wouldn't stop me considering most things but is a factor

Don't like
- Lack of traction in cold / damp weather - it struggles (even on new tyres)
- Rising costs to run and lack of confidence in these stopping!
- Starting to feel it's age/dated

In terms of replacement therefore I would want/need:

Good interior - needs to feel quality and be well built
Speed/Performance - on paper numbers are less important than the feeling
4-seats - 2 kids make this a must - but 4 doors is not a deal breaker
Daily use - will be driven most days on my commute (M25 so no Queef moments)
Good ride - I don't mind firm at all but not crashy
Handing - Not a boat but again - not going to be racing it and admit to enjoying (rapid) wafting

I've never had 4WD so that interests me as something 'new' and I'm more than happy to consider Diesel - I would lose the noise but ok to compromise if rest of package is good. I also have 2 dogs but its quite rare I would need to drive them in my car given we have the Disco for family holidays etc.

Things I've been Googling

Audi A8 (4.2 TDI seems a beast and appeals to my liking 'rare' cars) - I sat in one recently and the quality is incredible - not an exciting place but leagues ahead of a similar aged A6 I sat in)
Audi A7
Audi A5 / S5
Audi S4 Avant
BMW 3/5 series (Touring in 335dx for the 3)
BMW 4 series (435dx or similar)
BMW 135i (Got to consider given it's popularity)
Golf R
Merc C-Class / CLS / Shooting Break?

So - basically the usual German contenders in various guises and I'm some way off a short list yet but given many here have owned/driven/considered similar I'm still canvassing opinion.

I'm not totally against another Jag but feel if I change I would like a change - if that makes sense!
JohnC

I think I would add a 6 series GC to that list.

What is most important to you: the comfort and style (A8, 6 Series), The performance (Golf R, 135i), 4wd (3 & 4 Series + Audis) or something which has a bit of everything?

I think they are all totally different types of car but each has at least a few outstanding capabilities or features.
JohnC

Personally, I would have something like this:

http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/6-Serie...154-3497054.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_

You just need to make sure you can park something 5 mtrs long at the places you go.

Traction was never a major issue in my old 335D and I can't see the 6 series being any different. However the 4wd on my current car is a licence to use full throttle no matter what the surface is like (barring snow and ice of course)
Clunes

DOH!

6 Series GC was absolutely meant to be on the list - high up it although cost might be a barrier - need to do the sums and work out whats going on across both cars.

O.
Clunes

JohnC wrote:
Personally, I would have something like this:

http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/6-Serie...154-3497054.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_

You just need to make sure you can park something 5 mtrs long at the places you go.

Traction was never a major issue in my old 335D and I can't see the 6 series being any different. However the 4wd on my current car is a licence to use full throttle no matter what the surface is like (barring snow and ice of course)


Size RE: parking is pretty much a non-issue. Most of the time it would be on the drive or at the office where there is plenty of room.

Given the nature of my commute and general driving I would prioritise comfort/style over raw speed - most of the time traffic would be the limiting factor but a big torque figure for that effortless speed/overtaking is important - hence the strong diesel consideration. I'm a big fan of the 6GC interior
JohnC

Both the 5 and 6 series are a cut above the 3 and 4 Series in terms of the opulence. I love the leather dash on the 6 series and the way it sweeps up from the centre tunnel and segregates the passenger and driver.

On the inside the 5 and 6 series keep virtually all diesel noise out whereas the 3 and 4 series let a bit more noise in at low speeds (under 20mph). I had a drive in a 640D and I really liked it but the size was a bit of an issue for me and my parking.

The higher mileage and older 6GC are still £26K/£27K at dealers so a decent one with any kind of extras is going to cost £30K+. It is useful to keep in mind though that new pre reg and demo cars are being sold for mid £40K's. I got an email from Cooper BMW last week and they had a few Pre Reg cars with only one over £50K and the others mid £40Ks.
Martin

Your requirements are very similar to mine and you know what I ended up with.  I also really (really) like the 6 GC and could have got one for a similar amount per month, but the rear access and space was a deal breaker unfortunately.

Traction isn't an issue in the 530/535d, so I assume it wouldn't be an issue in the 6 as it's broadly the same but with wider rear tyres.

If you're used to and like the Jaguar interior, then I don't think a 1/3/4 series would cut it and they aren't as refined, with quite a bit more road and wind noise.   I know diesels get a hard time, but if effortless performance with good refinement at a reasonable cost is what you're looking for, they're definitely worth a look at.
PG

Interesting that a newer XF (in diesel S or XFR spec) is not on your list? You don't say what you budget is, so if an XFR from the Jag network is too much cash, then a diesel S would give you all the torque and retain all the toys and ride / handling comfort on 20's that you've become accustomed to.

If you want a change from an XF, then I'd say a 6GC or a Merc CLS is the way to go.
Nice Guy Eddie

Did I miss budgets?

Given you're brief I'd be looking at
M5
CLS63
RS7
XFR (Though might be too similar to what you have)

Don't really get the 135i vs A7
The only other thing is I wouldn't bother with X-drive on BMW's. From what I've read its like taking all that's good in a BMW and turning it into a Audi. This is an unqualified statement having not driven an X drive 3/4 series.
Clunes

Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
Did I miss budgets?

Given you're brief I'd be looking at
M5
CLS63
RS7
XFR (Though might be too similar to what you have)

Don't really get the 135i vs A7
The only other thing is I wouldn't bother with X-drive on BMW's. From what I've read its like taking all that's good in a BMW and turning it into a Audi. This is an unqualified statement having not driven an X drive 3/4 series.


Apologies - I did miss budget - partly as I'm not 100% but probably could push to £30ish but happy to consider less :)

I've looked at 6GC on and off for a long time and they fall rapidly to mid/low 30's but the curve then seems to flatten. I guess this might make an approved used purchase fairly affordable on a finance deal with GMFV - I would have expected them to keep falling faster but seems their desirability over and above the 5 helps.

It depends on how things balance out with the LR purchase - we can fund a good chunk of that so even if we finance some payments on each car we would probably be able to stay under the £500/ month mark pretty easily so I'd say that's a nominal upper limit for a monthly payment.

I'd seriously consider selling the Westfield in the spring to help fund as well - it's great fun but with the 2 young kids and endless things taking up time during the weekends it doesn't get used enough. I'm very glad I scratched the itch but my head says that selling is the best option - it's something I'd look to do again when the kids are older and I/we have more time to ourselves though.
JohnC

Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
I wouldn't bother with X-drive on BMW's. From what I've read its like taking all that's good in a BMW and turning it into a Audi. This is an unqualified statement having not driven an X drive 3/4 series.


I can assure you that the XDrive does not make the BMW anything like an Audi (we have a Quattro one of those too).

I have driven the 2WD 4 Series and I can't say it feels any different to mine when pushing on. Mine has none of the Audi front end weight feeling and is very much rear wheel biased. You also don't feel anything detracting from the driving experience at the front end except when traction is an issue and there is just enough feedback to let you know the fronts are doing a bit of work.

My wife's Audi will chew its way through a set of tyres in about 10,000 miles with the fronts being a bit worse than the rears. The BMW does nearly 20,000 on a set and the rears are the ones that trigger the change.

The only down side of XDrive is the slightly bigger turning circle.
Chip Butty

Don't forget the F01 7 series (the one that's just been replaced) in 740d or petrol flavour. I think they look great in M Sport trim and they look to be cheaper than the 6 series.

Also - the current CLS is a good shout. I'd have the sportback one even though I don't need an estate, just because it looks so good. You can get a semi official Brabus upgrade for the 350cdi that puts it closer to 535d grunt levels (assuming you can't stomach the 63 AMG.

Might also be worth looking at lease deals on a new 6 or 7 series -  Very occasionally, these turn up at £450-£500 per month if BMW are having a quarterly clear out.
Racing Teatray

The 6GC is nice and they do feel a cut above a 4, which in turn feels a cut above a 1.

Problem I have with the 6GC is finding a non-diesel flavoured one in a spec I like.

Plus they really are big cars.

We were in Italy at the weekend and my wife's cousin turned up for dinner in a spanking new XF, which was the first new-shape XF which I've seen and thought "yes, that's a good-looking car". It was a 3.0D R-Sport (which doesn't seem to be an engine/trim combo permitted in the UK) in a very fetching bronze colour called "Quartzite" with optional "black pack" (ie all chrome blacked out) and with some big alloys, and it looked seriously smart. Interior was two tone black and cream with figured ebony trim, and also looked very smart.
gooner

How about this Merc, it's practically new and within budget.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201610128715352
Giant

The 6GC is in another league of desirability to the rest of that list.
Failing that, I'd go for an A8, for effortless plutobarginess.
gooner

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201610078532988

This is also a good shout if you don't mind the higher mileage. I'm sure Jeff would approve!
JohnC

These do look good but the CLS must be near replacement time with the new E Class now running around.

https://www.mercedes-benz.net/p/u.../b4d796f96732fd2ab4359a7ef830ea01
Giant

gooner wrote:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201610078532988

This is also a good shout if you don't mind the higher mileage. I'm sure Jeff would approve!


Look sgreat, but what is a 'through loading system'? Is that a BMW three word acronym for bootlid?!
Giant

JohnC wrote:
These do look good but the CLS must be near replacement time with the new E Class now running around.

https://www.mercedes-benz.net/p/u.../b4d796f96732fd2ab4359a7ef830ea01


The latest Merc design language will either suit the CLS superbly, or it'll be the most saggy arsed car ever
Martin

When the rear centre armrest is down, you can open a flap and load something through it.
gooner

Martin wrote:
When the rear centre armrest is down, you can open a flap and load something through it.


Beat me to it. It's marketed by most manufacturers as a means of putting your skis in the boot.
Frank Bullitt

Giant wrote:
gooner wrote:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201610078532988

This is also a good shout if you don't mind the higher mileage. I'm sure Jeff would approve!


Look sgreat, but what is a 'through loading system'? Is that a BMW three word acronym for bootlid?!


In the 80's it was known as a Ski Hatch, BMW are probably trying to impress you that it now comes as free, like it did with a 1989 Cavalier 1.6GL
Giant

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Giant wrote:
gooner wrote:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201610078532988

This is also a good shout if you don't mind the higher mileage. I'm sure Jeff would approve!


Look sgreat, but what is a 'through loading system'? Is that a BMW three word acronym for bootlid?!


In the 80's it was known as a Ski Hatch, BMW are probably trying to impress you that it now comes as free, like it did with a 1989 Cavalier 1.6GL


Wow.  
Clunes

Thanks for the suggestions

I really like the new C-Class estates but a nearly new C250 doesn't really do it for me and I would expect the value to side faster than an older model.

The CLS Shooting Break is a nice thing but (admittedly without sitting in either) the 6-Series interior appeals a more - although the added practicality of the SB would be a plus on some occasions.

I'd also already seen the Alpina but as nice as it is I'm looking for something with lower mileage than my current car not more - preferably fairly low mileage backed up by good warranty options.

Having had a look on the web its clear that 6GC owners like Black exteriors and, even more, white interiors! I would prefer to avoid black again (although not a complete dealbreaker) but white interior does nothing for me and, as I wear jeans to the office every day, I don't think they would stay white for long!

Talking of white, the only GC I saw with tan interior was white exterior. I commend the purchaser for the interior colour but unsure I could cope with a white exterior: http://spirecarsltd.co.uk/vehicle...es-3-0-640d-m-sport-gran-coupe-2/

Shifting from the GC to the Coupe opens up a few more decent colour and interiot choices and the architecture is, it appears, the same - although I admit I prefer the GC looks overall and rear doors would be a nice to have.

I hadn't even considered a new XF as I assumed the entry price would be prohibitive going on what I had seen - I do like the look (not totally sold on the rear) so will look into it as a potential contender

As mentioned, the size of the GC, or similar vehicle, is unlikely to prove an issue often - my drive is big enough to park, and maneuver, a car of that size and my workplace has parking for many 100 cars with large spaces.

7-Series just doesn't appeal for some reason - I don't doubt they are excellent on almost every level but for some reason the, admittedly, staid A8 appeals where the 7 doesn't - I can't really explain that!

I'd also considered a Jag XJ but, again without getting up close and personal, something about the interior doesn't do it for me.

I need to go see some Mercs up close - perhaps the pictures of the interiors don't do them justice but until the latest C class I've always felt they lag behind, perhaps not in quality but in style/design.
Martin

The 6 series coupe has woeful rear legroom, much less than the 4 series coupe.  It's partly due to the size of the seats, but the back of the drivers seat was almost touching the rear seat squab when set to my driving position.  The GC isn't great, but it has a lot more room.

I liked the A8 I borrowed for the day.  It was comfortable, well equipped and had a very nice interior, which was a much bigger step up from the A6/7 than the 7 was from the 5 (although the new 7 is now)
Clunes

Hmm,

I went on the BMW configurator just to see and the new deals are interesting - even before looking at the brokers prices.

Example: 640d MSport with a few options (not many but including brown leather (free), heated wheel, air conditioning, comforts access, park assist 7 rear view camera the price was something like 68k.

BMW will put in an £11,855 dealer deposit. Adding my own deposit brings the monthly to the £500 (or lower) mark - and that is on a 4 yr 0.0% fixed and, obviously 0% APR

Broadspeed show a 14,500 discount so I guess that could be taken into account and unless I'm mis-reading the BMW site you could get into a brand new 6GC for under £500. The final payment is a smidge uner £20k which, given the 4 yr old 40k mileage ones on the market is under what it might end up being so there would be equity in the car at the end.

I can see why this new car finance malarky is proving popular!

O.
JohnC

As Martin has said, if you want 4 useable seats in a coupe get the 4 series not the 6. The 6GC has much more room in the back than the coupe unless, like Martin, your children are going to be 6ft+. At 5'10" I can sit comfortably behind myself in a 6GC. The 4 coupe and GC and 6GC also have folding rear seats as standard which gives a massive load area. I can't remember off the top of my head but I have the feeling the 6 coupe doesn't get folding rear seats.

When we had a fleeting contemplation of changing my wife's A5 recently, I enquired about a couple of used 4 Series GC for her. I had a phone call yesterday from one of the dealerships of an ex BMW racer and they were basically offering me a new 435D GC with Sports Plus Pack, sunroof, adaptive headlights and storage pack for £36K. There was something slightly odd in his finance offering but I had to disappoint him because we won't be changing just yet and I was too busy to get in to a detailed conversation. However there are obviously deals to be had if you can hold your nerve and if they are going to get a delivery in Q4, the order will need to go in pretty soon.
JohnC

They aren't all black with white leather:

http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/6-Serie...623-3497157.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_


Personally, I prefer this internal colour to the darker Cinamon but it is sooooooo rare:

http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/6-Serie...114-3497056.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_

I blame BMW for their policy of having a black headlining on all MSport cars, for all the white leather, which is needed to brighten things up a bit. A sunroof does a good job of brightening the interior and removing a lot of the black, in which case the black leather interior doesn't look anything like as gloomy.

This is maybe a bit old and the mileage a bit high but it has the full leather which gives the leather dashboard and in the flesh it is very luxurious:

http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/6-Serie...072-3496995.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_
gonnabuildabuggy

My thoughts FWIW:

CLS looks great, though the earlier one is nicer than the current one IMHO. I'd happily have an older CLS as I suspect you'd find enough kit on it other than camera's and it's all pretty reliable.

R/135i (probably the R) are a different kind of car but one that appeals for commuting - small, semi luxury but fast and fun when you need them, plus hatch convenience. Leasing an R on the £200/month deals that crop up regularly would leave plenty of money to fund the Disco.

6GC/4GC - I suspect the 4 is as good and easier to park.

Audis - appeal to me too (S5 please) but not sure if the driving experience will match other stuff.

I'd drive them and boil the decision down a bit as that's a big list.
Racing Teatray

All nice but all diesels. Petrol 6GCs clearly don't sell - there are only 5 on BMW's Approved Used site.

And a new 640i GC even with maxxed out discount comes in at £499/month on my terms, which is over £100 more per month than the 440i GC.

That's not bad given the spec'd up prices differ by £17k - it would cost £7.5k more over 4 years (assuming you then bought it as there is a differential of about £2.5k in the GFVs) but still more than we wish to spend, and it's ultimately just too big without being sufficiently practical to justify the size.
Clunes

What's the APR on the 4GC? Is it the 2.9% offer - that still beats a bank loan. I do prefer the look and interior of the 6 but certainly need to take a closer look at these. A few trips to dealers following my half term holiday beckon.

As mentioned before, size of the car is pretty much a non issue - it's not that much longer than the Disco and we have a tow bar on that so overall about the same and that has never proven problematic.

I think I'd rule out a CLS - I'm not as big a fan of the looks as some and from pics the BMW interiors look nicer but I'll still take a look.

S5 is a good shout also. I'm using this as a daily driver so ultimate on-limit balance is less important than a good ride/handling balance in 'normal' driving.

Anyway, off on hols now :)
Racing Teatray

Clunes wrote:
What's the APR on the 4GC? Is it the 2.9% offer - that still beats a bank loan. I do prefer the look and interior of the 6 but certainly need to take a closer look at these. A few trips to dealers following my half term holiday beckon.

As mentioned before, size of the car is pretty much a non issue - it's not that much longer than the Disco and we have a tow bar on that so overall about the same and that has never proven problematic.

I think I'd rule out a CLS - I'm not as big a fan of the looks as some and from pics the BMW interiors look nicer but I'll still take a look.

S5 is a good shout also. I'm using this as a daily driver so ultimate on-limit balance is less important than a good ride/handling balance in 'normal' driving.

Anyway, off on hols now :)


Yes, 2.9% but that's a special campaign rate for Q4 on the 4-series (probably as there is an LCI of the 4 due out mid-next year but it looks extremely mild and the important upgrades (eg engine/iDrive etc) have already happened for the 2017 model year). On a 340i Touring it's the usual 4.9%. 6GCs are 0.0%.

I did look at the new S5 and there are discounts available, but the reviews are a bit meh, the looks are a touch difficult and the APR was 6.7%...

Happy hols!
JohnC

Clunes wrote:
What's the APR on the 4GC? Is it the 2.9% offer - that still beats a bank loan.


That rate is available on the new ones. The one I was being pushed to yesterday was a Pre Registered one I think and some of his figures didn't compute in my head for a 2.9% apr so he might have been trying to be cute with the figures and run a lower price past me with a higher apr. The standard apr for BMW finance on a used car is 10.9% apr which you can half easily at the bank or by HP.
Racing Teatray

BMW will usually halve it too if you push.

I got 5.9% from BMW when I bought the M5 approved-used in 2011, and 5.9% was the refinance offer on the M135i when the PCP expired last year (albeit that I went to the bank instead and got 3.7%).
Chip Butty

http://used.jaguar.co.uk/search#/details/2704172



Or as they come with 2 year warranty

http://used.jaguar.co.uk/search#/details/2711825
Roadrunner

Chip Butty wrote:
http://used.jaguar.co.uk/search#/details/2704172



Or as they come with 2 year warranty

http://used.jaguar.co.uk/search#/details/2711825


This  
Racing Teatray

They are huge and butt-ugly though. And not even redeemed by having a decent V8.
Clunes

Racing Teatray wrote:
They are huge and butt-ugly though. And not even redeemed by having a decent V8.


I actually like the XJ in sport trim - it's far more interesting than many and (IMO) can look really good - however, for some reason I find myself leaning far more to an A8 when looking at this class of car than the XJ. Perhaps it's the dull but quietly sophisticated/Q-Car nature of the A8 but despite it being a clone of its siblings I am more drawn to it than the XJ. Im not sold on the XJ interiors either and, as Martin has commented in the past, they are perhaps not quite as well screwed together as an equivalent Beemer/Audi/Merc.

That said, an A8 also feels a little 'executive taxi service' in a way something like the 6GC or similar does not (for obvious reasons). I guess the fact I do 20miles each way on the M25 past Heathrow each morning should make me lean more towards the A8 than away - especially given recent events regards the runway decision :)
gooner

I don't think you'd be unhappy in either car from an overall driving perspective but I think I'd prefer the big Audi for the M25 commute. It's worth stretching your budget a little if you can to get the more recently facelifted version.
Martin

My thoughts on the A8 (for what their worth) after borrowing one for the day are part way down page 3.

http://themotor.myfastforum.org/ftopic21072-0-asc-100.php

I was more impressed with it than I expected to be and it ended up being a decision between that and the 535d.

The post 2014 facelift improved the looks, but then you need to be a bit careful as they've changed the spec several times.  The 2014 model has the highest standard spec and some nice wheel choices.

If space isn't so much of a concern, then a 6 GC would probably be my choice in your position.
Racing Teatray

The only current barge I like the looks of is the S-Class.

The A8 looks slab-sided, underwheeled and charmless. The 7-series is more interesting-looking but nevertheless no beauty. The XJ I have never and will never like. The Quattroporte is ok but disappointing. I guess there must be a Lexus offering but I think it's safe to assume it looks awful. Which just leaves the current S-class which is rather shapely, especially in AMG trim. The only downside is that, in London at least, you'll look like a chauffeur.
Nice Guy Eddie

If you only use the car to sit on the M25 everyday, dare I suggest a Tesla.

Actually that's going to blow the budget isn't it
PhilD

Racing Teatray wrote:
The only current barge I like the looks of is the S-Class.

The A8 looks slab-sided, underwheeled and charmless. The 7-series is more interesting-looking but nevertheless no beauty. The XJ I have never and will never like. The Quattroporte is ok but disappointing. I guess there must be a Lexus offering but I think it's safe to assume it looks awful. Which just leaves the current S-class which is rather shapely, especially in AMG trim. The only downside is that, in London at least, you'll look like a chauffeur.


I saw a Lexus offering earlier and it' looks like all of the above combined.
Clunes

Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
If you only use the car to sit on the M25 everyday, dare I suggest a Tesla.

Actually that's going to blow the budget isn't it


A Tesla would fit the bill perfectly but yes, also blow budgets. I know a few people who have the S in various forms in the US (my company is based in Silicon Valley and Teslas are everywhere). One colleague as an S, a Model X already and a 3 on order and a few folk here have jumped on the order books for a 3.

I agree with everything said about luxo-barges and I think it's more the appeal of a bonkers level of torque and quality interior that appeals and I am leaning far more heavily towards a 6GC or similar offering from one of the usual suspects.

I priced up a new XF and it came out more expensive than the 6GC although I haven't explored discount possibilities. I do like it but the urge to change makes it less appealing to stay with Jag.

I see a 6GC test drive looming
Racing Teatray

Discount on a XF-S 3.0i is around £7k-ish.

The rest you can work out here: http://financecalculator.jaguar.c...01b__3cq2q__a-saloon_jt4__/quote?

Just scale up your deposit to cover the difference between the contribution stated and the actual discount available.

Obviously it is not spec-adjusted but it gives an idea.
gooner

I thought about suggesting a Tesla too, they are an appealing alternative. Early used ones start about 50k though which, to be fair, for the original owner is a pretty good residual value.
gonnabuildabuggy

My big problem with new audi's is the look identical to old audi's.

Save some money and buy an earlier A8  
gonnabuildabuggy

Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
If you only use the car to sit on the M25 everyday, dare I suggest a Tesla.

Actually that's going to blow the budget isn't it


Good call post Heathrow announcement. Or buy a hot hatch and take the back roads.....at 5.30am
Chip Butty

Small point to note, but Broad speed is showing circa 28% discount on 550i M sports (£58k down to £42k)

If you are getting numbers from BMW dealers - I would definitely get some figures on one of those.

I would much rather have a 5 series than any of the 6 series cars - I think it's the massive saggy arse on the 6 series (that reminds me of an extremely fat woman sat on a bench) that puts me off - I also prefer the 5 series interior.
Racing Teatray

Chip Butty wrote:
Small point to note, but Broad speed is showing circa 28% discount on 550i M sports (£58k down to £42k)

If you are getting numbers from BMW dealers - I would definitely get some figures on one of those.

I would much rather have a 5 series than any of the 6 series cars - I think it's the massive saggy arse on the 6 series (that reminds me of an extremely fat woman sat on a bench) that puts me off - I also prefer the 5 series interior.


I've never much liked the 5-series interior myself - overly slabby dash.

I ran a 550i MSport through the configurator out of interest and it came out at £63k-ish specced to my liking. However, even applying a £15.8k discount (the Broadspeed quote), with a deposit from me of £6k, the monthlies were just shy of £600, which is £200 more than the 440i. That's largely because the 48 month GFV is £20.3k...

That's perhaps because the new 5 has already been unveiled.
gooner

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
If you only use the car to sit on the M25 everyday, dare I suggest a Tesla.

Actually that's going to blow the budget isn't it


Good call post Heathrow announcement. Or buy a hot hatch and take the back roads.....at 5.30am


That's a great idea in theory but the M25 isn't too bad that early and at rush hour the back roads are all just as knackered by the volume of local traffic that's avoiding the motorway!
Martin

I've read that getting over 30% on the current 5 Series isn't difficult at all. †I've seen a 535d with individual paint (Moonstone), Merino leather, VDC and a whole load of other options including HUD (only Voodoo lights missing) for a couple of grand less than I paid for mine. †Can't complain too much, I got over 20% off and that was 2 years ago now.

Unsurprisingly, I don't think the 5 Series interior is slabby at all, it's the nicest interior in the class imho. However, I've not sat in a new E Class, so that might be an out of date opinion.
Clunes

A.a nice 535d (touring) like yours would be a very viable option and tick many boxes but I do prefer the 6 interior and I have a feeling it would 'feel' more special day to day but if some crazy deals come through I will look carefully. O

We have the Discovery for the Uber practical family vehicle which allows me to be a bit more flexible. A 911 has also tempted but it would, unsurprisingly, be an only model year and as I an automatic is pretty much a must have given my usage I would feel an it 'wrong' getting into an early 997 unless it was a manual.  

Question about the 6GC or actually cars in general - what is the aversion to anything but black or white interiors!?! The vast majorly of approved BMW are black with white/white with black or some combination. I've found only a coupe of black/tan or grey/red in my searches

From pics I think even the free cinnamon tan/brown lifts the interior
Martin

As much as I love my car, I wouldn't have one if our other car was something practical (like a Discovery!).  I think a lightly used 6 GC would give you everything you're looking for, unless you can stretch the budget a bit and get an early M6 GC.  That is a car I would love to own.   There are several in my Autotrader garage, with an LCI (so full Merino and nicer headlights) with competition pack at the top of he list.
Clunes

Martin wrote:
As much as I love my car, I wouldn't have one if our other car was something practical (like a Discovery!). †I think a lightly used 6 GC would give you everything you're looking for, unless you can stretch the budget a bit and get an early M6 GC. †That is a car I would love to own. † There are several in my Autotrader garage, with an LCI (so full Merino and nicer headlights) with competition pack at the top of he list.


The more thought I give his (and relaxing on holiday is a good place to think!) the more I am settled on the idea of a nice 6GC.

A quick search in the approved used shows a couple of good options - this one is only a few miles down the road and I may take a peek if it's still there at the end of the week after I get back. http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/6-Serie...956-3497102.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_

I still think I would prefer the Cinnamon interior but the Carbon black is a lovely colour and one I prefer to the more black blacks!
PG

Clunes wrote:
...this one is only a few miles down the road..


No pimp glass - excellent!
Clunes

Anyone have personal experience of VDC vs non VDC equipped 5/6 series?

It appears VDC is very rare option in the used (approved) market and I am interested to hear opinions of anyone that has driven both.

Also very clear that, after the precipitous initial depreciation, approved values are strong.

Closest VDC equipped car for example is this 40k mile 3 1/2 year old one -

http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/6-Serie...428-3497272.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_

Nice spec although PG would have to look away (pimp glass warning)
Martin

I didn't get chance to try it unfortunately, but made the decisions not to spec it based on what I read which was that comfort is softer than SE suspension and Sport is firmer than M sport suspension. †As I've never really liked a BMW on SE suspension, I assumed I'd always be in sport, which would give me a firmer ride than I ideally want. †The ride height is the same as an SE on the 5 Series as well, which I also don't like. †I drove a 535d on M Sport suspension with 19" RFTs back to back with an XF S Sportbrake on 20" wheels and the ride was very similar (Jag was slightly softer but moved around a little more), so I wouldn't worry too much.

Adaptive Drive is the option to have if you can find a car with it fitted. † It includes active anti roll bars and is supposed to make a huge difference. †It's an expensive option new (£2,500) but is probably one I'd choose if ordering now.

As always, the answer is to try the options yourself, but I wouldn't be too worried about getting a non VDC car.

Silver suits the GC, but if you go for a slightly newer model you'll get the new Professional Nav with better graphics, faster processor etc (it has the larger controller with touch control which is how you tell them apart) and the much nicer M sport steering wheel.  Nappa is nice to have, but it does mean you have quite a contrast (in finish even more than quality) between that and the Dakota leather on the dashboard which negates some of the benefit of the leather dash.
PG

Clunes wrote:
Nice spec although PG would have to look away (pimp glass warning)
#

I peeked through closed fingers. And survived...  

I'm not sure Silver is the best colour. Needs something a bit darker to my eye. But better then white. Who in their right mind specs a new 6GC in white? Except to follow fashion of course.
JohnC

I would have a read of some of the BMW forums for info on the need for VDC.

Something at the back of my mind says that it is standard now, but I am not sure from which year - it was certainly after the upgrade so likely to be 2015.

A Dad of a girl in my daughters class has a new 66 plate 6GC in Blue Metallic with cream leather. I was chatting to him last night, waiting for the girl's to finish hockey and he loves it. Thinks it is considerably quieter on the motorway than his old 530D. He didn't spec many extras but his has cameras front and rear as standard plus lots of toys he says he will never use.
Tim

How much would that 18 month old 640 have cost new?

Also, what is VDC?
Martin

Variable Damper (Control)
JohnC

Tim wrote:
How much would that 18 month old 640 have cost new?

Also, what is VDC?


A 640D would cost around £70K at full list but I believe the owner of the 640D I spoke to last night got his for around £50K with 0% interest.

VDC is variable damper control.
Martin

They had a selection of pre-reg 640d Msport GCs with a couple of options (e.g. reversing camera and HUD) for between £46-47k when I looking 2 years ago.
JohnC

I've just looked and the VDC or full adaptive suspension are still options, albeit a bit cheaper now at £1100 for VDC! £3400 for the full monty which is a good bit more than pulling the trousers down.
Tim

JohnC wrote:
Tim wrote:
How much would that 18 month old 640 have cost new?

Also, what is VDC?


A 640D would cost around £70K at full list but I believe the owner of the 640D I spoke to last night got his for around £50K with 0% interest.

VDC is variable damper control.


That's some discount!
I wonder if anyone's ever paid full list price for one.
Clunes

Tim wrote:
JohnC wrote:
Tim wrote:
How much would that 18 month old 640 have cost new?

Also, what is VDC?


A 640D would cost around £70K at full list but I believe the owner of the 640D I spoke to last night got his for around £50K with 0% interest.

VDC is variable damper control.


That's some discount!
I wonder if anyone's ever paid full list price for one.


Standard discount from BMW (in terms of deposit contribution) at the moment is £11,800 before any haggling and 0% finance. Car broker sites indicate a £14k discount should be normal.

I haven't specced up the 18mnth old one to see it's list price but it has the M Sport Plus package which is a bit under £3k so it will be around the 70k list and more like £55k new (assuming it wasn't a pre-reg) so has dropped around £15-20k in that time. Given a good 3yr old example is still at £30k plus the curve seems to flatten quite a lot after 2yrs or so.
cbeaks1

The drive the deal email just came though. I think the biggest discount is 32.5% off S350 AMG Line 9 tronic so £49k. You have to take the finance at 4.9% though.
gonnabuildabuggy

Clunes wrote:
Given a good 3yr old example is still at £30k plus the curve seems to flatten quite a lot after 2yrs or so.


Isn't a 3 yr old one the oldest you could get? I suspect the curve will flatten less when there are more around.....(goes off to look at cheap A7's...)
gonnabuildabuggy

...comes back with this.

http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201610058451195

Having overcome my "An S5 needs to be a V8" discrimantion, I decided that for the money an S5 was a better bet than a cheap A7.

This looked lovely, and in fact I was sorely tempted but then realised all S5 are 4 seats only so no good for our family wagon, and probably too small right now. Give it another 12 months though....?
Roadrunner

cbeaks1 wrote:
The drive the deal email just came though. I think the biggest discount is 32.5% off S350 AMG Line 9 tronic so £49k. You have to take the finance at 4.9% though.


I got the same email. Some good deals on there, but DtD never seem to offer BMWs.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

I hope someone offers decent discounts on the "Old" 5-series estates as I've just had a quick play and "my" spec is a whisker over £60k !
mybmw.co.uk/f5t4v6p5

And no decent colours to chose from either, I've chosen what appears to be the best of a bad bunch
Frank Bullitt

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
...comes back with this.

http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201610058451195

Having overcome my "An S5 needs to be a V8" discrimantion, I decided that for the money an S5 was a better bet than a cheap A7.

This looked lovely, and in fact I was sorely tempted but then realised all S5 are 4 seats only so no good for our family wagon, and probably too small right now. Give it another 12 months though....?


Audi relented and had a centre rear seatbelt as an option on the coupe and eventually standard on the sportback - not sure if the S5 is different but they should be out there if not.
Martin

That's S5 does look good, but is really dated inside, the dot matrix climate control and Sat Nav don't help.
gonnabuildabuggy

Martin wrote:
That's S5 does look good, but is really dated inside, the dot matrix climate control and Sat Nav don't help.


That was my thought too vs an A7.

I'm (presently) thinking the engine would overcome my concerns over cabin quality vs the A7.

It's all irrelevant really as changing circumstances over the next few years (kids leaving home, parents moving nearby, endowments paying off, potentially moving/extending/doing nothing) means that car spending of note is a bit daft until circumstances are clearer.

I concluded earlier that if the FRV went bang I'd just get an 8 yr old Mondeo 2.5T Titanium X for £4K to do family duties until things were clearer on the home front as to future needs.
Roadrunner

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
I hope someone offers decent discounts on the "Old" 5-series estates as I've just had a quick play and "my" spec is a whisker over £60k !
mybmw.co.uk/f5t4v6p5

And no decent colours to chose from either, I've chosen what appears to be the best of a bad bunch


BMW are doing some stonking deals themselves, as Racing has found out. Have a play on their website and try the finance calculator and then bear in mind that those figures are what is offered before negotiations begin.
gonnabuildabuggy

Roadrunner wrote:
Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
I hope someone offers decent discounts on the "Old" 5-series estates as I've just had a quick play and "my" spec is a whisker over £60k !
mybmw.co.uk/f5t4v6p5

And no decent colours to chose from either, I've chosen what appears to be the best of a bad bunch


BMW are doing some stonking deals themselves, as Racing has found out. Have a play on their website and try the finance calculator and then bear in mind that those figures are what is offered before negotiations begin.


I'd go further. Do that, decide what you think is (within reason) a fair price that you would pay and then go into the dealership and discuss.

Will they do a deal? No. Might they ring you in December when they need sales? May be.

You will need to do it on finance though to get the best deal but at 0-2.9% APR that's no kicker.
Martin

As I've said, you can get 30%+ off a factory order 5 Series, presumably more if it's in stock. †That makes your £60k car just over £40k which is excellent value for money.
Bob Sacamano

Martin wrote:
As I've said, you can get 30%+ off a factory order 5 Series, presumably more if it's in stock. †That makes your £60k car just over £40k which is excellent value for money.


Is a £60k car on sale for £40k really a £60k car in the first place?
Martin

No, the list price is irrelevant as it is with most new cars.
gonnabuildabuggy

Martin wrote:
No, the list price is irrelevant as it is with most new cars.


It must be designed to appeal to Women and their idea of bargain hunting.

"I saved £50 on these £100 shoes", normally means I spent £50 on a pair of shoes worth £50.
gooner

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Martin wrote:
As I've said, you can get 30%+ off a factory order 5 Series, presumably more if it's in stock. †That makes your £60k car just over £40k which is excellent value for money.


Is a £60k car on sale for £40k really a £60k car in the first place?


No different to companies giving you a free gift and claiming it's worth £50. Erm not if you're givi it away it's not!
Clunes

Agree the list price is rarely relevant to real world purchase prices - very relevant to tax costs mind.

I dropped in to see the Carbon Black 6GC - only had a chance to look from the outside as it was a)Pissing it down and b) I didn't have much time.

I did have a test sit in various models though - 4GC and 6 in the dry showroom. The 4 interior is a nice place to sit and there is a good amount or room for front and rear occupants. It was in a lovely Tanzanite blue.

The 6 interior did, as expected, feel a step up with the swooping leather dash etc and it was also a very lovely place to sit and only served to increase my interest.

I'm booked to test drive it tomorrow but not 100% if I can make it yet - the carbon black in the rain looked far more interesting than the metallic black 4 coupe next to it in colour terms.

Price is now showing as 35,490 so down by £500 no doubt to generate more interest.
Clunes

A mildly left field alternative - highly tuned 435d xdrove coupe. Not loving the chrome!

http://www.birdsgarage.co.uk/used...y-xdrive-2dr-iver-201608317282534

Birds is only about 15 mins from me and they usually have some. I've stock but this car, and most of their other, limited, stock has been hanging around for a while now.
Clunes

I managed to go and take a closer look at the car up the road (the Carbon Black example) and took it for a short test drive to get a better feeling for the car mainly focussing on the ride and overall ambience.

Once inside the (very) nice interior the car doesn't feel that big and whilst I didn't have to navigate through any small gaps It never felt too large and was easy to place on the road. Visibility is noticeably poorer than the Jag but that was expected given the lower roof/smalller windows etc and again wasn't an issue given it was easy to find a good driving position and mirrors.

As a place to sit it is lovely, the dash graphics and high gloss nav are lovely to look at and you feel ensconced in the driving seat - it really is a nice place to sit. The Head Up Display with speed limit notification is fantastically clear yet not intrusive and the radio stations, phone contacts etc all show incredibly clearly making selecting things on the move a breeze. No sunroof on this model and I can understand why folk like them but it would not be a deal breaker and the black leather was also nice (manly steering wheel aside).

The ride quality was something I was very interested to experience being a non-VDC vehicle with 20" run flats and it was noticeably firmer than the Jag (also on 20s) but not uncomfortably so for the vast majority - some sharper ridges did convey more of a thud through the car but this served to highlight how solid it felt overall - the stability and sense of sure footedness was obvious despite me not extending the performance too much.

Talking of performance - perfectly adequate and deceptive - the engine is very smooth and pulls hard from any revs - †no surprises there.

Plenty of space in the rear for adults sitting behind each other - under seat space tight perhaps but that aside the back would be more than adequate for my needs - as would the boot space.

Carbon black looked great and more interesting than the Sapphire black coupe that was parked next to it.

It had plenty of toys though no heated wheel which I have got to love in the Jag and no reversing cam which given its size would be nice. Also the standard silver interior would not be my first choice if speccing from new but equally it looked very smart.

I think it is an LCI model as it has the LED headlights (no idea if they are adaptive!) & the indicator strips in the mirrors which came with the 2015 update which is a nice to have. †

Overall I thought it was near outstanding across the board and very desirable indeed - so I've placed a deposit and need to now decide on how I want to finance - erring towards buying it out using a low % bank loan on part of the cost vs a PCP at this time but need to think through a few things.

The Westfield will be going as well - †its huge fun but I'm not using it enough to justify it sitting on the drive/garage and the funds will help a lot with this purchase given it is by far the most lavish I've made (house aside of course).
Martin

Sounds good and looks very smart indeed.

The HUD and speed limit display are part of the M Sport Plus pack along with the HK speakers, 20" wheels and pimp glass.  The LED headlights were standard, but the voodoo versions are an option
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

That is gorgeous - nice choice.
Clunes

Martin wrote:
Sounds good and looks very smart indeed.

The HUD and speed limit display are part of the M Sport Plus pack along with the HK speakers, 20" wheels and pimp glass. †The LED headlights were standard, but the voodoo versions are an option


I thought that was the case wrt the headlights but you find different opinions online. I was aware of the M Sport Plus pack contents but no pimp glass - which I'm glad about.

I took a couple of pics but struggle to share from my phone so will post later - proper pics will follow towards the end of month when I'll be likely to pick it up.
Clunes

A couple of very quickly taken pics at the stealers







Martin

They are full fat LED headlights with the same amount of LEDs as mine, they just don't have the adaptive functionality.   It's different if you have a 3 series, where there is a much bigger difference between the normal LED and Icon LEDs.
Andy C

Looks great
Frank Bullitt

Very nice, I do like these
Big Blue

Nice. Can't condone the fuel choice, but nice all the same.
Clunes

Big Blue wrote:
Nice. Can't condone the fuel choice, but nice all the same.


I understand where you're coming from and this will be the first diesel I've had in a very long long time (only ever owned one actually). Since then I've had

Toyota MR2 (Mk1)
BMW 530i (E39)
Mondeo ST220
Mondeo 2.5T TitX
Jag SV8 (4.2 Supercharged)

So, I'm not exactly a diesel advocate and my last 3 cars have been among the 'rarest' on the road but as I've got older, diesels have got massively better & my usage has changed it makes as much sense from an overall performance/refinement perspective as a petrol.

The cost / mpg of fuel is not actually that important as I use a fuel card for all mileage but the 6GC rapidly rose to the top of the list and I couldn't stretch to an M6GC - the 640i/650i variants are few and far between and the diseasel should hold its value better and deliver all I need at this stage. I will miss the V8 (although the 640d sound from inside isn't bad at all) and the rev range of petrol but I'm confident he pros will outweigh the cons in this instance :)

Head over heart - maybe a tiny bit but if that was truly the case a 330d or similar would have been top of the choices - I'm comfortable with how much heart vs head there is in this one ;)
Michael

Great choice. Enjoy!
gooner

That looks like a good choice with the right balance between head and heart. It's a shame you couldn't stretch to an M6GC but I doubt you'll be disappointed with the performance (well perhaps a little disappointed compared to the Jag, it certainly won't create as great a noise). I does sound like you've found the right car for your current needs though and I'm sure it'll make your M25 commute a little more bearable.
gonnabuildabuggy

Great choice.

Out of interest what did you think of the Mondeo 2.5T TitX?

It's down as a left field temporary car should we need a family car in the next year or so.
Bob Sacamano

That does look very nice, congrats. It's certainly a model I'd be looking at if I was looking for a lightly used model for purchase.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
That is gorgeous - nice choice.

+1, somehow BMW have done this sytle of car far, far better than Merc did with the CLS (IMHO)
Chip Butty

I think in terms of pure performance, the 640d is equal of the SV8 - both get to 100 mph in 12 and a bit seconds.

Although the supercharged 4.2 has lots of torque (410 lbs ft), you still need to rev it right out - this was very noticeable when I went from the 300 bhp XF S to the S-type R.

Horses for courses, but the 640d will be quicker with far less effort (and fuel) expended. I like the gravelly tone of the big 6 cylinder diesels.

Great choice.

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