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Giant

Porsche 718

The Boxster and Cayman are being renamed 718, albeit still suffixed With their current names:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news...t-new-names-and-flat-four-engines

Seems an odd thing to do, from someone who doesn't follow Porsche numbers especially.
JohnC

What I find more interesting is that the currently cheaper Boxsters are going to leap frog the Cayman in price.

The original "coupe is more expensive than cabrio" took a bit of getting used to but there is now a definite hierarchy. Why change it? What purpose does it serve? Do they think that they have lots of people who now want and can afford a Boxster, who will be prepared to pay an extra 2k/3K or whatever. Is this the "fix a scandal" fund that prospective Boxster owners are being asked to contribute to?
Stuntman

I think it's the other way round.  It's recognising that Cayman owners have been subsidising the cheaper prices of the Boxsters through their love of marginally better handling through increased torsional rigidity, and a preference for a conventional roof

The price gap has virtually narrowed anyway.  When the original Cayman S was launched (admittedly with 15 bhp and 200cc more than the contemporary Boxster S) it was about 5500 more expensive.  Today the price gap is only about 1000, and the Cayman has 10 bhp more but no extra displacement.
BeN

It's them acknowledging that the two are now the same and you now have to pay extra for extra headroom and more wind. As Porsche does when they charge you more for less.
Alf McQueef

I'm sure they will be great, but it is sad when car development is legislation-driven rather than customer-driven. How many potential or actual Cayman and Boxster owners have thought "hmmm, make the engine a bit smaller and the MPG a little better, and I'm in".
Martin

It makes the GTS an even better option as it is now if that sticks with the 6 cylinder engine.  In the Boxster of course, so you can properly appreciate the fantastic noise it makes!
Sav

I've always liked the idea of the base Boxster as you got the howling flat six, like much pricier Boxster's and other Porsche's. That will be no longer the case, and it's a shame. I'm sure the four-pots will have a lot more torque and a little more power, but I would personally feel short changed with a four-pot when it costs 40k +.
PhilD

Martin wrote:
It makes the GTS an even better option as it is now if that sticks with the 6 cylinder engine.


Is that definite? seems a bit strange as it's just a tarted up S.
Frank Bullitt

Porsche going back to its Beetle roots.
Martin

PhilD wrote:
Martin wrote:
It makes the GTS an even better option as it is now if that sticks with the 6 cylinder engine.


Is that definite? seems a bit strange as it's just a tarted up S.


No, reading more it looks like wishful thinking unfortunately.
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Makes the new Spyder even more desirable, although not at current prices.
PhilD

I knew Porsche were introducing a 4 cylinder engine but thought it was for a new entry level model, I didn't realise they were doing a Volvo!
Twelfth Monkey

Martin wrote:
In the Boxster of course, so you can properly appreciate the fantastic noise it makes!


You ought to have mentioned this before!

 
PG

PhilD wrote:
I knew Porsche were introducing a 4 cylinder engine but thought it was for a new entry level model, I didn't realise they were doing a Volvo!


Quite. And the Boxster, sorry 718 Boxster, will now cost more than the 718 Cayman too.

Methinks then that the new "base" Porker will be a 50k (by the time  a few options are added) 718 Cayman 4-pot. Seems things have moved upwards a lot from the early 6 cylinder Boxsters that were, really, a good value Porsche entry point at the time.
Frank Bullitt

Let's not all get our knickers in a twist though;

944 and 968 were both 4-pot and nobody ever called them shitters, likewise, you can make a 4-pot boxer sound tasty (assuming it is a boxer) as Subaru has ably demonstrated.

We'll ignore the 924
Blarno

If they sound like a Subaru, then game on.

I was behind a mint Guards Red 968 Sport on the M62 near Oldham the other day. What a lovely little car.
PhilD

Frank Bullitt wrote:


944 and 968 were both 4-pot and nobody ever called them shitters



I'm too young to remember...

so is that true and how much did they cost?
Frank Bullitt

PhilD wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:


944 and 968 were both 4-pot and nobody ever called them shitters



I'm too young to remember...

so is that true and how much did they cost?


It is true!

Somebody cleverer than me can work it out but at launch a 968 in 1992 was circa 40k and a Carrera 2 63k.
Martin

40k is 58k in today's money, 63k is 116k.

I'm not cleverer, my information comes from the Bank of England calculator!

Really interesting though, we really are getting an awful lot more for our money now.
Alf McQueef

I was an avid car mag reader in the days of the 944/968 and they were slagged off to high heaven for having 4 pot engines and a very high price tag. I (too young to know my folly) had a thing for the 968 in my late teens and really wanted one one day. I don't now... The 944T and the 968CS both have their appeal for sure (I still like the 944T for reasons I don't fully understand) but they copped a lot of stick in their day and had it not been for the Boxster Porsche would have gone bust on the back of their lack of profitability.

I bought Autocar at the weekend. Nothing changes - I have only dipped into it but in the new 911 article, the captions on the pictures claim that the engine is not noticeably turbocharged to the driver, and revs to 7500rpm. But if you read the text it states clearly that you can tell it is turbocharged, that the sound is very different, and that it runs out of puff well before the redline. For most drivers the extra torque will make it a better car, but I wish they'd drop the "you can't tell" bollocks.
Twelfth Monkey

I find the motoring press irritating when it comes to the 911, because it is inconsistent. All of the magazines have gone down the 'turbocharging is good after all' route, when the old engine's characteristics were singled out as a key part of its appeal.

Exactly the same as when the hydraulic steering's constant feedback was its defining virtue, which all of a sudden ceased to matter when it was muted by electrical assistance. I know that the cars move on in other ways with each generation and facelift, but either these 'crucial' traits matter or they do not. They can't be vital and then suddenly become less important when they are diminished.
PhilD

Alf McQueef wrote:
I was an avid car mag reader in the days of the 944/968 and they were slagged off to high heaven for having 4 pot engines and a very high price tag. I (too young to know my folly) had a thing for the 968 in my late teens and really wanted one one day. I don't now... The 944T and the 968CS both have their appeal for sure (I still like the 944T for reasons I don't fully understand) but they copped a lot of stick in their day and had it not been for the Boxster Porsche would have gone bust on the back of their lack of profitability.



This is my favourite 4 pot Porker

Chris M Wanted a V-10

Do a search on YouTube for "Wheeler Dealers" and "Porsche 914" ;-)
JohnC

I think the press are forced to take the view that these things are changing due to powers outwith their control so it is better to embrace them and push for improvements than to lament the loss of those things we will never be allowed to see again due to legislation. Maybe manufacturers also apply a bit of pressure.

In 20 years time they will be applauding the latest fully electric car's 200 mile real life range and not mentioning the turbos etc which will be the dying breed at that time.

We can always reminisce probably much as they did when the Horse News became Motoring News.
PhilD

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
Do a search on YouTube for "Wheeler Dealers" and "Porsche 914" ;-)


Have it saved on the Tivo!
Big Blue

I seem to remember that the press pointed out that the 968 was probably the best handling car that was ever made, despite its 4 cylinder motor.

Sniff has it right about the new one:

http://sniffpetrol.com/2015/12/11...level-defensiveness/#.Vm7GmuZFDcs
Tim

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
I find the motoring press irritating when it comes to the 911, because it is inconsistent. All of the magazines have gone down the 'turbocharging is good after all' route, when the old engine's characteristics were singled out as a key part of its appeal.

Exactly the same as when the hydraulic steering's constant feedback was its defining virtue, which all of a sudden ceased to matter when it was muted by electrical assistance. I know that the cars move on in other ways with each generation and facelift, but either these 'crucial' traits matter or they do not. They can't be vital and then suddenly become less important when they are diminished.


If EVO is anything to go by the motoring press are all in thrall to the 911 on  a personal level (i.e. they all have one in the garage somewhere).

Do you remember the 'old' days (the 1980s) when the motoring press slagged Jaguar off for the XJ having little steering feel yet apparently Ferrari have been making hyper-active, feel-free steering for a few years but it barely merits a comment.
Martin

Agree that there have been different reports, but as always, the only answer is to try one and make your own mind up.
Twelfth Monkey

You don't have to drive one to recognise that there's a significant volte face in the importance of the old 911's 'defining' steering feel.  I'm not talking about whether the cars are better or worse, just that something that elevated the old one above its peers cannot be (largely) removed and then not declared to really matter.  It either did or it didn't.

John, in twenty years' time, I reckon leccy cars will go at least as far as a typical modern car can on a tank of fuel. I just hope we'll have enough spare power for some more interesting noises, even if they are artificial.
PhilD

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
You don't have to drive one to recognise that there's a significant volte face in the importance of the old 911's 'defining' steering feel. I'm not talking about whether the cars are better or worse, just that something that elevated the old one above its peers cannot be (largely) removed and then not declared to really matter. It either did or it didn't.

John, in twenty years' time, I reckon leccy cars will go at least as far as a typical modern car can on a tank of fuel. I just hope we'll have enough spare power for some more interesting noises, even if they are artificial.


Or it did but with it diluted (and there is acknowledgement that the EPAS is constantly improving) the car is still enjoyable. 911s are also getting a beating a lot more than they used to, whether it;s by F-Types or AMG GTs so maybe they have lost something.
Roadsterstu

Big Blue wrote:
I seem to remember that the press pointed out that the 968 was probably the best handling car that was ever made, despite its 4 cylinder motor.

Sniff has it right about the new one:

http://sniffpetrol.com/2015/12/11...level-defensiveness/#.Vm7GmuZFDcs


Roadsterstu

PhilD wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
You don't have to drive one to recognise that there's a significant volte face in the importance of the old 911's 'defining' steering feel. I'm not talking about whether the cars are better or worse, just that something that elevated the old one above its peers cannot be (largely) removed and then not declared to really matter. It either did or it didn't.

John, in twenty years' time, I reckon leccy cars will go at least as far as a typical modern car can on a tank of fuel. I just hope we'll have enough spare power for some more interesting noises, even if they are artificial.


Or it did but with it diluted (and there is acknowledgement that the EPAS is constantly improving) the car is still enjoyable. 911s are also getting a beating a lot more than they used to, whether it;s by F-Types or AMG GTs so maybe they have lost something.


Or others have simply improved even further.
Twelfth Monkey

Roadsterstu wrote:
Big Blue wrote:
I seem to remember that the press pointed out that the 968 was probably the best handling car that was ever made, despite its 4 cylinder motor.

Sniff has it right about the new one:

http://sniffpetrol.com/2015/12/11...level-defensiveness/#.Vm7GmuZFDcs




Covers the motoring press too, no?
Eff One

Big Blue wrote:
Sniff has it right about the new one:

http://sniffpetrol.com/2015/12/11...level-defensiveness/#.Vm7GmuZFDcs


Reminds me of the time I lurked on a Porsche owners club forum.
Stuntman

Some Porsche owners are fairly nice and normal, actually
Bryan M

the normality and affability of the owner is generally proportional to the age of the Porsche
Stuntman

Martin's in trouble, then!
Martin

I'm not feeling very affable at the moment, I can't wait for some time off!  I assumed Bryan meant the older the car, the less normal the owner!

Mines getting on a bit now, it will be 5 in just over 3 months time, which is why I've got a fair few cars in my Autotrader garage and keep having to tell myself there are other priorities this year.
JohnC

Martin wrote:
I assumed Bryan meant the older the car, the less normal the owner!



Not the way I read it!
PhilD

JohnC wrote:
Martin wrote:
I assumed Bryan meant the older the car, the less normal the owner!



Not the way I read it!


Not me!

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