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gonnabuildabuggy

Nails it?

To my mind this neatly defines what we are seeing globally today (spurred on by the US Election thread).

Please read and let me know your thoughts.

http://www.economist.com/news/bri...n-left-and-right-between-open-and
Tim

I agree with some of it but actually I don't think the real problem is immigration.
As an independent state we can theoretically control that quite easily.

I think it's just become an easy excuse to answer all the perceived problems.

There does seem to have been a rush to pluck policies from all sorts of different places though and in some ways the traditional political  will have to adapt (slowly in the UK because that appears to be our way).
Bob Sacamano

Bit of a strange article as the author tries to make out he's presenting an unbiased case and then nails his true colours to the mast in the final paragraph. Unfortunately the second comment after destroys his arguments.

Quote:
TE can't put together a coherent argument, on the one hand it laments at Brexit, but then argues "Virtually no politicians have forthrightly argued that free trade and well-regulated immigration make most people better off."

Well, that's the point of Brexit, duh. You can't have open borders and 'well regulated immigration' it's an oxymoron. And unless we're watching different politics, all the campaigning for leaving the EU was regarding better world trade deals.

Various other information here gets confused, conflated or presumed, such as whether life is better or worse off, people can infer all sorts or reasons besides monetary as to why they consider their country to be in decline.

Finally, with regard to the final statement, more education does not mean better education or more intelligent, quantity is not quality, neither is intellect wisdom.
gonnabuildabuggy

Tim wrote:
I agree with some of it but actually I don't think the real problem is immigration.
As an independent state we can theoretically control that quite easily.

I think it's just become an easy excuse to answer all the perceived problems.

There does seem to have been a rush to pluck policies from all sorts of different places though and in some ways the traditional political  will have to adapt (slowly in the UK because that appears to be our way).


I was picking up more on resurgence of nationalism being a "reaction" to globalisation mainly. All are winners through lower prices but some are losers through job losses etc.

This is what is driving a lot of the "nationalism" that is coming to the forefront across the world right now, with immigration being one scapegoat for this - e.g. it's the poles coming here stealing our jobs, not the Chinese who actually are keeping prices down and meaning that local companies have to rely on low cost labour (much of it immigrants?) to enable them to compete/stay afloat.
Stuntman

After reading the piece, I agree with most of what it suggests to be the causal factors behind people voting for the drawbridge-uppers.  In particular, when the perception is that too much immigration has happened too quickly, and the immigrants make little effort to assimilate and adopt the customs of their new host country and/or community.
Frank Bullitt

It's always interested me how people talk of 'left' and 'right' yet have never been able to explain how getting a nations 'working lefties' behind a nationalist right wing agenda.

What the article describes, what Brexit shows and what the American presidential race shows is that Nationalism matters more to many than 'left' or 'right' - amongst my trade staff at work, who generally vote labour, there is a huge amount of joy for 'Brexit' to get rid of foreigners coming in and ruining the country; obviously they don't mean the ones they might live next door to because they are nice, decent people, but it's the others.

Drawbridge Up is best described as Nationalism - a decline in living standards is a perfect recipe when fuelled by a serial 'blamer', in the USA it's Mexicans (and handily Muslims), here it's the Poles and Muslims etc.

Hitler started with Jews and Gypsy's.
Bob Sacamano

Frank Bullitt wrote:
.

Hitler started with Jews and Gypsy's.


I can't believe it only took 6 posts before Godwin's Law kicked in.  
Tim

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
I was picking up more on resurgence of nationalism being a "reaction" to globalisation mainly. All are winners through lower prices but some are losers through job losses etc.


Sure but if you take the Brexit result as an example then some of those peddling the immigration argument would actually be backed by the evils of globalisation, at least in its big corporate tax 'efficient' form.

I think its highly hypocritical.

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