Last nights Question Time

scamper · Last nights Question Time

Should he have been allowed on Question Time last night? - yes.

Did `their' vote warrant inclusion on the show - probebly not.

Griffin came across as a debating lightweight outside far right hall meetings, nervous and someone who is not as clever as he thinks he is, with a poor grasp on facts and comments which made him just look silly - "but they were a non-violent ku klux klan". Classic.

Furthermore, the questioning should have been moved on to other topics as climate change and the recession which would have exposed him even more. At no stage did he really explain his parties policies.

DradusContact

People dont seem to understand the BBC and how it strives to be neutral, i agree he should of been allowed on, but not letting someone on your being biased.

I didnt see it but i understand he made a fool of himself.

"him"

Big Blue

The whole show was a sham. All the questionning focussed on Griffin and his parties views, which is not what QT is about; the questions from members of the audience seemed chosen on the basis of questioner being openly hostile to Griffin and his party rather than raising a point, as Scamper says, about real-world policies; the fact that the show had this "set-up" feel about it did more to legitimise Griffin in the eyes of his followers and the massed ranks of anti-interacialists (he got asked one question by a bloke in a skull cap with the following question being asked by someone called Aziz or somesuch, FFS: balance in the ethnicity of the questioners would have made it a bit more watchable); the other panellists didn't debate the issues, they attacked Griffin on a personal basis.

As to his performance, it would be interesting to see the performance of anyone else faced with a baying audience (anyone that may have had pro-Griffen views were at the back of the studio from applause audio) asking personally hostile questions about issues that are one dimensional. Gordon Brown lost the plot about his glass eye and addiction to prescription drugs didn't he?

I don't really give 2 fecks about the BNP but when the BBC set up a show like this and then the media report "Griffin uses QT to attack various cultures" when he was clearly directly asked questions about those issues rather than the economy etc it's no wonder organisations like the BNP thrive.

And yes, of course he should have been able to appear on the show. What gives the "antis" the right to tell the rest of the nation that their view to suppress this bollocks is the right view? We need to hear it's bollocks to know it.

'G'

I don't care what anyone says, I still think Mr Griffin is fantastic on 'The Family Guy'.

"him"

DradusContact

PG

I didn't see QT last night, but the brief extracts I've seen seemed like BB says.

Personal attacks only make the recipient stronger in the eyes of his followers and actually gives them ammunition "they can't argue with my policies, so they just insult me". A robust examination of his policies might have actually served a purpose?

woof woof

I'm not a fan or a supporter but one thing that you can say for fascists is that they always have nice uniforms.

I didn't watch QT but I did tape it and I did hear R5 going on about it last night and again this morning.

As was mentioned on this very forum recently it seems that the British establishment is focussed on hatred of the far right whereas equally evil or discriminatory parties, groups, bodies, representatives or whatever we'd call them seem to be more tolerated. Unless my memory has failed me we have in the past had communists and representatives of one ethnicity on QT and other TV programmes before without all this high drama.

I think that the far left has represented a bigger internal threat to our democracy than the far right, you've only got to look at the targeted infiltration of our political system, unions and pressure groups to see the evidence and doubtless there has been more than we know about. In the future the far right may be more of a threat, I simply don't know, but I think that I doubt it. I think that the far right will continue to be a marginal annoyance, a protest vote, nothing more.

So how come we can apparently give air time to communists without excessive drama but not fascists? I really can not say which is the more evil philosophy.

I've posted here many times that I believe that race is irrelevant and I tend to agree with those that believe that race in humans does not actually exist and that all we are seeing is variations in extended family / tribal groups. Racial group seems to be an issue for many though but I wonder how come we can give air time to black only organisations but not white only ones? Both are equally racist aren't they?

It's problems like these that drive me back to my beloved electronics.

I've yet to watch QT but from what I've heard and read so far it seem like it was a shambles, which I think is a shame. I also wouldn't agree that the Beeb is neutral and agenda free, I don't think that they are, I think that individuals and factions within the Beeb have always existed and will always exist and will always continue to press their own political agendas with varying degrees of subtlety.

'G'

Perhaps if we put BNP in a big field with their left-wing counterpart activists, they will cancel each other out in an all mighty hooha of a punch up?

This will leave those of us that remain in the real world, to live full, happy and nonpolitical party lives, free from the dogma of both forms of extremism.

I propose Richard Briers as permanent Prime Minister.

woof woof

Permanent? What? Forever? Even after he's dead?

'G'

Yes, that's the beauty of 'Oneupmanship'.

woof woof

I suppose it makes sense...once he's dead he'll make no more bad decisions.

I think you're onto something.

Big Blue

'G'

At the sad point of his end he will be placed in suspended animation. He will never die, and always be in charge.

Nothing will change. No decisions will ever be made again, thus no mistakes. The Deputy Prime Minister will have no authority and the cabinates prime concern would be maintaining the suspension chamber.

Perhaps we could have Felicity Kendal as 'First Lady'?........wait.....I'm just remembering the crush I had on her when I was 15.

DetmoldDick

I agree with the above posts, we all seem to be in agreement that he should have been allowed/ invited on the programme. Even if we do not agree with his views.

What gets my goat is that we live in a tolerant democracy where people have a right to peacefully state their opinion and beliefs. So why the protesters have to use violence against the police to state their opinion that those of others should be denied. Shame on them.

PG

garry

I saw Qt. It was just plain odd. I'm all for giving him enough rope to hang himself, but that's not what we saw last night. Today, the media seems to be congratulating itself, believing it made Griffin look like an arse and exposed him for what he is. I'd be a little hesitant before drawing that conclusion. A group of London liberals does not constitute this country and some of the points he made will resonate with a wider audience. His views on Islam are a good example. Go look at where BNP gain support (working class, northern towns) and see if his views on homosexuality are seen as abhorrent.

Take a look at the responses on the bbc website and it calls into question the media view that Griffin was taken apart: http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/t...0091023143023&#paginatorline.

Racing

He's an odious creep it would seem but that does not mean he shouldn't have been on QT. Those who thought otherwise are being wholly undemocratic. I was right with the Beeb on this one.

The other people who should be ashamed of themselves are the "anti-fascist" protesters who turned up outside the BBC. In today's society in this country, you've got to be seriously deranged if what you do is devote meaningful time and effort to going and screaming abuse at someone you disagree with in that manner. In my book, they themselves become no better than the BNP (ie a very long way down the food chain indeed).

Sav

In my opinion, he brought the hatred all on himself. I mean first he states that he was involved with the 'non-violent ku klux klan', then goes on to insult gay people. Sorry, but he deserve everything he got. He didn't state any real policies, instead he made a load of irrelevant historical references and his party's thinking is derived from events that are in the past and are not important as regards to the future of Britain.

And whenever he was asked a question, about true statements he would either snigger like a shy five year old, or blurt out some rubbish that nobody understands. I like the bit when he said that: 'I'm perfectly happy for you to stay here' to one Muslim man, really, the same man slating all Asian's in a youtube video that was secretly filmed and stating that all Asian's should be deported? And oh yes, most of what journalists say about him is course untrue, none of it ever came from his mouth.

Go onto the 'policies' section on the BNP site, and its just the same narrow minded view about being 'truly British'. Sorry, he deserved all what he got last night. If he is so proud of the BNP's values, he should have stated his racist views loud and clear. But he didn't, he continued to lie like a rat.

The BNP are no better then the Green Party really, who have one sole agenda. Labour and Conservative have their faults, but I'll take either ANY DAY.

DradusContact

Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Interesting viewpoint from the person who debated with him at the Oxford Union:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment...nick-griffin-question-time-debate

Boxer6

It does look, from the first 2 pages at least, that the BBC's pages are overwhelmed with detractors, both of the organisation and the other parties' representtives.

It would appear that Griffin has, at the very least, managed to consolidate his support, and very possibly gained some additional "fans".

None of the respondents I saw could spell "indigent" though, which was annoying.

Scouse

'G'

Many should question what their real fear of Mr Griffin actually is?

He is just a man. In fact, I've always considered his appearance to be that of a low resolution genetic copy of Gordon Brown.

Like him or not, remember the rise of the National Socialists in Europe. For the fear of the racism laws many quietly support his views. The more he is ridiculed, the more support he will gain. There are many ignorant people in Britain. The election and re-election of New Labour has proved that.

The Newspapers have poured scorn on him for the program. They've played right into his hands by giving him notoriety. We've only just reinforced his will to carry on and now he knows who oppose him.

That scares me.

Scouse

SpecB

I didn't see the program but agree with all thew above. I have just heard on the radio that he is to make a formal complaint against the BBC for changing the script on him and basically setting up a lynch mob!

Nice Guy Eddie

As an White British person I guess its easy for me to suggest that those anti fashist protesters looked like idiots and gave the BNP the exact platform they wanted. We do ourselves no favours when we treat the BNP with hatred. We need to debate with these people and show them up for the idiots they are.
I have very little to add to what BB said in his first post. It summed up last night show perfectly. I even felt sympathy for Griffen as he had 5 panel members and an entire audience asking stupid questions in a style that was way below what should be allowed on the BBC. If we continue to treat the BNP like this it will only work in their favour.

Mike Amos

The problem of setting yourself up as holier than thou is that frankly, they aren't.

If someone is set up to take a fall there is bound to be mud that sticks, take the beebs coverage of the expenses mess. Anyone remember how long they covered the excesses of its own senior staff? Not very.

Sadly the beeb has sunk to an all time low and no, I am not a supporter of the bnp and think they should be prevented from using symbols like the spitfire to advertise their crap.

woof woof

I've just watch the programme and to be honest I didn't think that Griffin's performance was as bad as I'd been lead to believe after listening to reports on the radio.

I do think that the show was a shambles, it came across to me as panel + carefully selected studio audience (and yes, I know that they all are and that in itself must be highly questionable) v Griffin with no real attempt to debate at all. That has to be an at least a questionable way of doing things. Jack Straw was allowed to drone on and on and I think that the whole show missed an opportunity to confront Griffin and shows all involved including Dimbleby and the Beeb generally in a bad light.

A bad show and bad tactics IMVHO.

Stuntman

I watched it last night, and completely agree with BB's first post in this thread.

Nobody comes out of this with any credit, IMO.

woof woof

Radio 5 report that 22% of those polled would seriously consider voting BNP in a local or general election.

It's beginning to look like the Beeb did indeed get this seriously wrong.

gonnabuildabuggy

DaveGibson

woof woof

Is there an echo in here?

DaveGibson

woof woof

I'm only jealous Dave as your post was better than mine...link and all!!

'G'

Gooner

I watched it and was annoyed at the way it was set up. It seemed the producers just got those with dark skin to have a pop. One asked the question "should I go home?", when Nick Griffin had not made any attempt to put across an argument for all Asians being sent home. Whatever he may have said in the past, privately or otherwise, the producers should have stuck to the point. I'm all for free speech and, whilst I'm not a supporter of the BNP, I see no reason he should have been barred from the Beeb unless he was going on to clearly spout racial hatred, which for the most part he didn't. He's right to point out that Labours immigration policy is failing and that any Tom, Dick and Harry who hides in the back of a lorry bound for Dover knows that even if he's caught, as long as it's on British soil, he's in. What's racist about pointing out that our lax immigration policy is flawed?

I felt that if anything, my view of the other panellist has been dimmed by their attitude. They took the media's contempt for the BNP as an opportunity to interrupt him halfway through every sentence he struggled to get out, all the while knowing they were riling the audience to join in.

QT is mean't to be topical. I notice they never asked Nick Griffin how he'd deal with the nations postal service going on strike? Didn't Jack Straw, as Labours representative on the show, have some questions to answer on this?

As I've said, I'm not a BNP supporter but they should be allowed to have their say. That's what democracy is all about. I don't think the BBC allowed that.

Apex clipper

Mike Amos

Steve, you ask why I believe the bnp should not be allowed to use the spitfire or other militaria as part of their campaign. Well, to put it simply, the spitfire et al are symbols of how our country 'united' along with the commonwealth nations and ended up kicking some serious politics into touch (Von Clauswitz described war as 'politics by any other means'). How many black and asian troops/civillians died while allied to 'us'?

As a party which clearly does not represent the entire nation, or even a majority of it, the use of such symbols becomes propaganda of the most infantile kind. I have thought about the invitation of the bnp on to the qt show and think on reflection, that it should be done - just done properly with ALL of the panel given a good grilling, not a 'lets gang up on the one minority member and give ourselves an easy time of it' hour. The points about governments handling of the continuing bonus culture in big banks and the postal strike disaster should and could have been chucked at Jack Straw.......

Gooner

I totally agree. Labour have a lot to answer for and Jack Straw being such a senior member of the government got off very lightly. Hardly a topical debate really was it?

DB

Interesting to see that many of the views posted here are similar to my own.

I do think that the questions conspired to attack Nick Griffin, rather than follow the usual QT format. Although if questions come from the audience I can't say I am surprised and I don't really blame the BBC.

The mainstream political parties are dealing with the BNP all wrong. Instead of just trying to attack and dismiss them as racist bigots, they should be putting the issues which are creating the BNP support on their agenda, namely; immigration, equality, poverty etc. The BNP are only on the rise because the mainstream parties are failing to debate and address these issues. I noted Jack Straw dodged the question on Labour's performance on immigration - that is why people are voting BNP! Starting tackling these issues and the BNP's support will evaporate.

And then you have got Peter Hain going off on one at the BBC for putting him on the show and creating the apparent surge in popularity. Smell the coffee Peter, it is you and your cronies who are pushing him up the opinion polls.

One other thing I noted about Griffin’s protests about being misquoted. I watched the show. What I heard him say was the following:

Some people find the sight of two males kissing in public really creepy.

The member of the Klu Klux Klan with which he shared a platform with was the head of a non-violent order of that organisation.

What was widely reported was : ‘Nick Griffin said he found the sight of two males kissing creepy, and he claimed that the Klu Klux Klan were a non-violent organisation.’

I started to have some sympathy about his complaints about miss-quotation.

woof woof

On the subject of being misquoted...

A guy I know was on a national radio station a few weeks ago. He spoke to them one day and it was broadcast the next. He was amazed that the piece had been edited to make him look like a complete fool. This came as no surprise to me, but I was amazed at his naivety.

This is what the press / media routinely do.

Come the revolution I'd have them up against the wall along with the politicians. And after I'd had them up against the wall I'd have them all shot.

simonp

There's a new cassetteboy vid on youtube made from this programme.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QAvkFS_cgk

edit: link added

Giant

PG

TimR

I watched QT and feel it was an hour of my life I'll never get back.

Griffin came across as someone who is not as well schooled in dealing with the media and perhaps as someone a little overwhelmed with where he was.

As others have said it would've been far more constructive to ask him how his party would've dealt with the recession, Postal strike, etc.

The question about immigration was a ridiculous one as well.
I got the impression that all representatives were talking about immigration of 'coloured' people from overseas yet were scared to actually say that - perhaps it was because Jack Straw started waffling about encouraged immigration from the West Indies in the early '60s.

However my take on recent immigration is that 99.9% of it has been from Eastern Europe so, I presume, race doesn't actually come into it.
Mind you, I don't live in 'that there London' so either perhaps they don't get the same immigration as we do in the sticks.

Frank Bullitt · Re: Last nights Question Time

Should he be allowed on? Yes.

Did the vote warrant inclusion? Yes.

Did the BBC miss a class opportunity for the grade-A shyte to sink himself by stage-managing the show and Dimbleby not doing his job properly? Yes.

Griffin has clearly never come across "It is better for people to think you are an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt", but you'll always get fuckwits who vote for scum like him because their 'answers' lie in easy blame based upon simple segregation of society.

It is everyones right to vote for the BNP, but those who do are either thick or scum.

Mark

I don't often watch it, but I found the arrogance of this whole panel pretty amazing - including Dimbleby.

TimR

'G'

Last nights Question Time

Re: Last nights Question Time