| Archive for The Motor Forum talking cars since 2006 |
| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Interesting article about bailing out GM and Chryslerhttp://money.cnn.com/2009/10/21/a...bailout_rattner.fortune/index.htm |
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| Gurney |
Makes you wonder exactly what Mercedes had in mind with it's Chrysler takeover. Everyone seems to suggest the Germans were hopeless, its' just not the image you would imagine.
Mind you thinking about it, this was in the time of 'lets build em a little less carefully' wasn't it, hardly the most intelligent of plans as it turned out. Fascinating article. |
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| TimR |
I think with Chrysler Merc seemed to follow BMWs lead with Rover, i.e. screw it up but blame everyone else. I'd read the excerpt about meeting Rick Wagoner and the decision to replace him with Henderson. They whole industry appear to have had the same attitude as the British motorcycle industry did. |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
Fascinating
The views on Obama's manner and decision making are very positive which bodes well for the world. Also not suprised by this: "In my relatively few interactions with chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner, I found him to be likable, dedicated, and generally knowledgeable. But Rick set a tone of "friendly arrogance" that seemed to permeate the organization." Our new (you know what I mean) MD has located his desk in the middle of the large open plan office - i wonder how long before the remainder of the board decide to relocate from the grandeur of the directors suite? |
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| PG |
Whenever I read of large corporates that are in trouble, I'm always reminded of the Duke of Wellington's quote - "there's no such thing as bad infantry, just bad officers".
I wonder how often (if ever) all those senior execs or non exec directors actually drove the shittiest, base model that they made. |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
One of my big beefs - virtually everyone (even down to the receptionist) who works for a car manufacturer has a subsidised car or one or two company cars - their knowledge of the buying/ownership process is relatively none existent. The exception - Nissan engineering at Cranfield, very few seem to have company motors and lots of tasty stuff owned. |
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| DaveGibson |
While I would accept the general point, I think it depends on the manufacturer. When I visited Ford's HQ at Brentwood in the early seventies, every car in the car park was a Ford, except for my Mini and a Rover P6 3500. However, when I was at Longbridge, a large proportion were non-BL, so many had not had the benefit of a subsidy. The cars were only free if you had a 'Job' car (because of the high business miles you did) or you were at Executive grade. Management cars, as I had, were subject to a monthly fee and in later years tax. As I proved, when we were offered money in lieu of a car, it was cheaper to take the money. As far as the ordinary employee, yes, an employee discount was available but it was barely any more than the discount Rolls-Royce had negotiated for its employees from all of the local garages. |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
I'm basing my views on VAG and Mercedes who are based in MK. Permanent employees can join the car lease scheme (numbers I've heard are £90/month for a C class e.g.), whilst management level gets one car, mid management one car and cheap lease, senior 2 cars.
This is perhaps a bit old and VAG biased so Richard ex-MB might be able to confirm better, Martin also has experience of people whose partners work there. My neighbours daughter has just done work experience at VAG and had new car every 6 months on the lease scheme (and she was a temp employee), she had A3 and Beetle Cabriolet for next to nothing compared to Joe Public. The goal that I can see is to generate stock for nearly new dealer sales. |
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| Richard (ex-MB_insider) |
Speaking as someone who worked on the retail side but sat in the manufacturers office I totally agree with you. Head Office staff continuously blamed the dealerships for poor sales/customer satisfaction etc but were terrified of ever having to set foot in one to see what it was really like trying to sell their products.
There are various different schemes at MB but the one open to all permanent staff was not as cheap as that. From memory the cheapest C-Class was about £185/month. In the time I was there I paid: £220/month for a E220 CDI Avantgarde Saloon with auto and leather, £245/month for a CLK320 CDI Avantagarde Coupe with leather, £165/month for a B180 CDI SE with leather, £175/month for a B200 CDI SE with leather. Company car schemes were available to staff of 'specialist' level or higher (specialist was one level below manager) and were structured to minimise tax so worked out very cheap. The scheme I was in entitled me to buy a car at a 21% discount from list with an interest free loan provided to me by MB. I would sell the car back to MB when the used value of the car reached 79% of list. This arrangement did not qualify for company car tax and I was taxed on the benefit of the interest free loan. For example: I buy a £30k car at a 21% discount with a loan from MB of £23.7k. I sell the car back to MB when the used price is £23.7k. HMRC say I should have paid 5% interest on the £23.7k so I have had a benefit of £1,185. I pay tax on £1,185 at my tax rate (either 20% or 40%) so between £237 or £474 per year. On top of that I am charged a flat rate for insurance (£650ish), servicing (£200ish) and road tax (£200ish) but I can claim back the cost of this everytime I do business mileage at a rate per mile which I now can't remember (might have been 27p). |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
Thanks.
Definitely cheaper than motoring for the average man! I think the VAG rates were lower but then they had cheaper products available, this was a good 10yrs ago as well I realised after posting. |
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| DaveGibson |
My last company car (Rover 600 in 1996) with AT&T cost me £250/month, which included insurance and servicing. I was reimbursed for business mileage at about 10p/mile but I also paid income tax on the net benefit calculated under the relevant tax rules for the time less 12 x the monthly fee (on which I had already paid tax). The monthly fee was also subject to an annual increase even if the car was the same one. | ||||
| PG |
I would suspect that in almost all auto companies, senior management and decision makers have access to subsidised top of the range models. Which not only gives them financial shielding from the true reality of using their own products, but also gives them an unrealistic appraisal of their own product. For example, I am sure that Ford decision makers drive Mondeo Tit X models. So the real metal inserts look OK. But have they done 50,000 miles per year staring at a lot of cheap silver plastic and "built down to a price" interior trim? I doubt it. |