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simonp

Hahahahaha!

Just popped into a VW dealership with one eye on changing my car to a Golf R. They offered me 18 grand for the Leon and the finance had a £21K settlement figure and then said the Golf would be 4 grand down then £585 per month for a 3 door auto with metallic paint and no other options! I was in shock when I hurriedly left with the brochure tucked under my arm.

Nice Guy Eddie

Not the greatest deal ever is it. Have you thought about these lease deals doing the rounds?

Whats wrong with the Leon?
gooner

Think that settles that idea then! I thought lease deals on Golf R's were meant to be dirt cheap right now?
Racing Teatray

Well, for starters that they offer you £18k for the Leon means at the very least £20k should be achievable privately, making that settlement figure less daunting.

Then moving on to their offer:

Here is the finance one on VW's own website: https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/financeCalculator/chooseModel

That shows that with a £3.2k deposit doing 10k pa over 3 years, a 3dr DSG R should be £493 pcm with a GFV of £15.5k.

Now, Broadspeed is offering £4k off a DSG R 3dr.

So if you play with the deposit amount in the relevant box on the VW site, that shows that upping the deposit to, say, £6k (£2k from you and £4k from nice Mr VW), brings the pcm figure down to £404. At £8k down (£4k each from you and Dub), it drops to £341 pcm.

Now that didn't take long and already we are looking at figures which are up to £243 pcm less than the jokers you visited.
Martin

Even if you can't get the super cheap lease deals, there are plenty of options out there around the £400 mark.  £585 is a joke along the same lines as used Golf R32 prices were a while back.
simonp

Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
Whats wrong with the Leon?


300 bhp and FWD just doesn't work. And neither do the headlights! Now the weather is crap I get terrible wheel hop when I put my foot down. I've never had it in any other car before and the noise is horrific...

I wanna be able to floor the throttle to use my car's performance all year round and to able to see where I'm going whilst doing it!
Martin

simonp wrote:
300 bhp and FWD just doesn't work.


Has yours got an extra 24bhp over the standard model?  
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Interesting that there are such good deals on the R; given its critical reception, I thought it would have been sold out until well into next year.
gonnabuildabuggy

Our local Carnoisseur was doing some pretty good deals, close to the stupid deals you see around.
PhilD

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
Interesting that there are such good deals on the R; given its critical reception, I thought it would have been sold out until well into next year.


Except we know that what the journos say has no bearing whatsoever on what people buy and the whole press junket thing is a monumental waste of money (and CO2!)
Andy C

Martin wrote:
simonp wrote:
300 bhp and FWD just doesn't work.


Has yours got an extra 24bhp over the standard model?  


What tyres are on it ?

Mine is probably hovering around the same bhp as tn the Leon , and I don't have any problems really
TreVoR

Does it have a LSD?  You could probably have one put in if not.

Edit, just had a look and it does have a LSD of sorts. It could well be down to tyres.
simonp

Martin wrote:
simonp wrote:
300 bhp and FWD just doesn't work.


Has yours got an extra 24bhp over the standard model?  


A lot have been found to have around that figure after being rolling road tested.

The car has Bridgestone tyres on it and they are a bit shit. VAG cars have always suffered with wheel hop in the past, but you'd like to think they'd have engineered it out by now. Obvious now why the ALK console bushes are such a popular mod...

simonp

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
Interesting that there are such good deals on the R; given its critical reception, I thought it would have been sold out until well into next year.


I was told 5-6 month waiting list, so the popularity is definitely there.
Roadsterstu

Andy C wrote:
Martin wrote:
simonp wrote:
300 bhp and FWD just doesn't work.


Has yours got an extra 24bhp over the standard model?  


What tyres are on it ?

Mine is probably hovering around the same bhp as tn the Leon , and I don't have any problems really


If it develops on yours, Andy, the lower engine mount is a prime suspect. Mine was horrendous until I did the uprated mount mod. Now it can eat tyres much more smoothly!
simonp

Another popular VAG mod!
Roadrunner

My 140 bhp Skoda Superb suffered from wheel hop, so I can only imagine with horror what 300 bhp would be lke.
gooner

Could it be that the front end is a lot lighter than the R32? I suspect the smaller engine makes quite a difference, which is exacerbated but only getting traction from the front wheels.
JohnC

This post has just reminded me of wheel hop which was something I really didn't like with FWD shod with road tyres. Funny how you forget some things.
Roadrunner

JohnC wrote:
This post has just reminded me of wheel hop which was something I really didn't like with FWD shod with road tyres. Funny how you forget some things.


Indeed, yes. One of the many reasons why I much prefer RWD.
PhilD

Have you being following the 280 Cupra ownership in Evo?
simonp

No, I don't buy evo...
PG

Andy C wrote:
Martin wrote:
simonp wrote:
300 bhp and FWD just doesn't work.


Has yours got an extra 24bhp over the standard model?  


What tyres are on it ?

Mine is probably hovering around the same bhp as tn the Leon , and I don't have any problems really


A lot must be down to front suspension design and geometry. Dont't Ford and Vauxhall have some clever knuckle technology for powerful FWD cars? Looks like VW either don't have it, or VW keep it for themselves.

A good test is whether a Golf GTi suffers from the same thing. If not then that's why the Leon is cheaper.

I remember driving a Rover 220 Turbo Coupe years ago. It was comically bad for front axle tramp and torque steer. Seems the world has not moved on in some ways.
Twelfth Monkey

It'll be a tyres/grip thing.  Clever geometry will try to best deploy what you have (as well as trying to remove torque steer), but it can't magic traction from beyond what the tyres and road surface have to offer.  Pity about all of this, Simon.  Getting a new car and then wanting to get rid of it almost straight away is a bit of a pisser.
PhilD

ah ok.

DSC_0007

DSC_0004
Martin

Be interesting to find out what tyres the Evo car has fitted
Andy C

PG wrote:
Andy C wrote:
Martin wrote:
simonp wrote:
300 bhp and FWD just doesn't work.


Has yours got an extra 24bhp over the standard model?  


What tyres are on it ?

Mine is probably hovering around the same bhp as tn the Leon , and I don't have any problems really


A lot must be down to front suspension design and geometry. Dont't Ford and Vauxhall have some clever knuckle technology for powerful FWD cars? Looks like VW either don't have it, or VW keep it for themselves.

A good test is whether a Golf GTi suffers from the same thing. If not then that's why the Leon is cheaper.


The RS has revoknuckle, STs don't


The new golf gti has an electro-mechanical diff that apparently works wonders .

The Leon does sound like a great drive from what I've read. It must be the tyres.
Alf McQueef

Has this traction/wheel hop thing suddenly become a lot worse when the temperatures have dropped? I used to notice the difference in tyre types, and how much more grip drops away on summer tyres in winter, far more with powerful FWD cars.

The improvement in traction, allied to the uncorrupted steering, are the main benefits of RWD for sure. Even I don't hang the tail out enough for it to make a huge difference - the slides are mostly small and fleeting and could be achieved in a well set up 4WD car. But the traction totally blew me away initially and sometimes does still - the way you can pull away from a standstill, even if also cornering, is stunning. And even in the winter on muddy, leafy, twisty roads you can make fantastic progress - although your eyes may be out on stalks and you need to pay serious attention. And that's comparing like for like - the GTA and the 330i have the same size tyres and very similar performance/size/weight/engine characteristics.

In the GTA, adding a cross brace helped traction, and reduced wheel hop, adding the LSD made a huge improvement, especially as the 156's double wishbone setup did not pass too much torque steer back to the driver. But in the winter months traction was still at a premium. And when it went, with an LSD, it went suddenly and totally.

You may need a RWD or 4WD car from now on! For rapid, all season, driving on country lanes going back to 4WD is probably a plan.
simonp

I live in tractor country and when the roads aren't greasy and wet the twats driving said tractors are giving them a liberal coating of mud. It's all OK, though, as sometimes they'll put a sign up to let you know what they've done!



It is since the weather has gotten cooler and wetter that the car has been losing traction. I have winter wheels to put on soon, but stupidly assumed that Halfords would sell wheel studs. They don't. I've had to order some online, as I  needed some taper head bolts for my Speedline wheels. It will be interesting to see how differently it behaves after a change of tyres. Martin made a good point about the evo car. I doubt the original tyres are still on it, as mine don't have a massive amount of life left at 5K miles and theirs has done over twice that.
PhilD

simonp wrote:
Martin made a good point about the evo car. I doubt the original tyres are still on it, as mine don't have a massive amount of life left at 5K miles and theirs has done over twice that.


can't find any mention of the tyres since they started running it in March.
Alf McQueef

Interesting insight into a sporty front-driver on winters:

http://www.evo.co.uk/track-and-tr...on-michelin-winter-tyres-report-2
simonp

Rather irritating article, as there's no mention of what tyres were fitted before. Seems more of an ad for Michelin and he's bound to say they're good if they've been supplied free for editorial purposes and not bought personally. His description of the summer tyres does seem familiar, having read both parts.

The pressures bit is quite interesting, though. I've been running the recommended pressures, but might try dropping the fronts down to 30 PSI and see how it goes...
Alf McQueef

Nothing wrong with dropping the pressures on summer tyres at this time of year, especially if not spending long at constant high speeds. I ran the Alfa on much lower pressures than I do the 330.

Conversely for the winters I personally run them at high pressures as they feel a little "soft" anyway, and also to let the tread pattern open up and do its thing in snow, and in standing water (where they can struggle a little compared to similarly well-treaded summers, though compared to well worn summers they kick arse).
simonp

Put my details into carwow today like I did with the Leon. Cheltenham VW reckon the current lead times on the Golf R are a minimum of 30 weeks!

simonp

Seen an ad for a Golf on Auto Trader with these words in it:

"Has only really been used for European road trips so mileage nearly all at gentle motorway speeds.  Never been launched or abused."

It would appear, looking at their website, that those European motorway trips were to the Nordschleife.

http://www.volkswizard.co.uk/images/cars/rx14tvw/p2and3vwdoct14.jpg

So gentle motorway speeds, plus a little bit of track work!
PG

simonp wrote:
Seen an ad for a Golf on Auto Trader with these words in it:

"Has only really been used for European road trips so mileage nearly all at gentle motorway speeds.  Never been launched or abused."

It would appear, looking at their website, that those European motorway trips were to the Nordschleife.

http://www.volkswizard.co.uk/images/cars/rx14tvw/p2and3vwdoct14.jpg

So gentle motorway speeds, plus a little bit of track work!


Was it a lady owner too?  
Roadsterstu

Always garaged.
(In the pit lane between sessions).
simonp

Also says in the ad that it cost over 33 grand new, yet there is a photo of the invoice that quite clearly shows a price of £31,500 OTR.

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