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TimR

Guilty when proven innocent?

Just saw this on Pistonheads.

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=20842

Surely whoever is responsible for bringing the failed prosecution should be responsible for costs?

Otherwise what's to stop plod taking everyone to court, happy in the knowledge that most of us would probably plead guilty as it'd be cheaper than fighting the charge?
Big Blue

This has as much to do with the slovenly prosecutions that come across the desks of the court as people actually being innocent. Many of those acquiited are acquitted becasue the CPS has assigned some goofy junior to the matter who has inserted a page from the Beano as his case for the prosecution, clearly showing Plug from the Bash Street Kids speeding on a Raleigh Chopper in a built up area.

So, the CPS are idle cunts and get their cases slung out of court and have to pay costs so what's the solution? Tidy up process at the CPS, obviously.
Er......no. Let's charge the responding  party who has already paid for the CPS via his/her taxes to pay for a service that is as good as a troupe of monkeys writing the works of Shakespeare.

What the fuck are we all doing living in this shit hole? (overseas posters excused)
woof woof

For God sake.

If it was any other section of society other than motorists this would never ever in 100 years be considered.

This on policy alone should be enough to get the current lot out at the next election and is indicative of their attitude and incompetence.
woof woof

After wading through the story and comments I think I might bite the bullet and break the tradition of generations and vote Tory at the next election. There are just too many examples of Labour losing the plot to let this insanity, selective viciousness and incompetence continue. However, I'm pretty certain that the next bunch will be just as equally shite no matter what party they are.

We really really do need change in this country. We need a new political party or a radical change in an existing one. We need to have rulers who are at least remotely connected to the problems and realities of every day life and who are capable of making informed and as right as can be, as correct as can be and defendable decisions not the right on message global warming is all your fault crap we get from this bunch of new Labour fools.

There, look Gordon Brown! you've made me vote Tory! You wanker!
Big TC

I can scarcely believe this story. If you're innocent, the fuckers who brought the spurious case to court should pay your costs. How the hell can it be any different, in a  supposedly democratic country.
TimR

woof woof wrote:


We really really do need change in this country. We need a new political party or a radical change in an existing one. We need to have rulers who are at least remotely connected to the problems and realities of every day life and who are capable of making informed and as right as can be, as correct as can be and defendable decisions not the right on message global warming is all your fault crap we get from this bunch of new Labour fools.



I had lunch with a mate last week and we've decided to write our own manifesto.

Obviously we'll be doing it with a pen on paper in proper joined up writing and there will be no text speak or indecipherable governmental lingo.

It's going to cover all the major areas - travel, immigration, defence, Laura Norder, fat chavs with 8 kids by 7 fathers and all kinds of important other issues.

Sadly anyone who wants to read it will have to come to one of our houses as if we start putting it on computers and/or sending it out we'll be intercepted by the thought police and accused of mass terrorism and speeding and consequently not given a fair trial
woof woof

"I can scarcely believe this story. If you're innocent, the fuckers who brought the spurious case to court should pay your costs. How the hell can it be any different, in a  supposedly democratic country."

Because we're planet raping motorist scum and therefore deserve less pitty or mercy than Orcs invading The Shires of Middle Earth.
woof woof

"I had lunch with a mate last week and we've decided to write our own manifesto."

I wish this would happen.

Why can't a bunch of ordinary men and women get together and put an end to the Labour / Conservative strangle hold. They've both proved themselves to be unworthy to govern so why should they be given another chance just because we hate the current lot (whoever they are) so much that we've forgotten what a bunch of swine's the opposition were the last time they were in?

And don't get me started on the LibDems.
garry

It often feels like we're taking part in an experiment to see how far people can be pushed before they crack.
garry

Oh, and did you read how much this will save? £20m per year. That's roughly the same as Gordon Brown overspends every hour of every day (public sector borrowing being the wrong side of £14bn for September!!)
Boxer6

Surely it dovetails nicely with the part of the law where it says if your vehicle has been pictured by a Gatso or other robotic instrument of the State, you MUST tell the authorities who was driving despite the (almost) Universal tenet that you need not make any statement to the Police which may cause you to incriminate yourself.

I've signed the e-petiton (for all the use that'll be); I suppose all we can hope for is some rich bloke/ess to take it to the European Court of Human Rights come the time ~ working on the assumption that rich folk are rich (partly) because they don't spend money unnecessarily!
SambaFi

Why don't Neolabour just fuck off, this is a test to see just what the proles will tolerate.
PG

garry wrote:
It often feels like we're taking part in an experiment to see how far people can be pushed before they crack.


That rings very true. Perhaps Douglas Adams was right and the earth (or perhaps just the UK) is just some huge experiment run by a species of super beings to amuse themselves.
Racing

As a lawyer, I am staggered by this. It's blatantly and disgracefully unfair, and runs contrary to all equitable principles. Another natural candidate for the ECHR I should have thought.

I have signed and sent e-mails to all legal pals requesting that they do likewise and forward on to their chums too.
'G'

It's actually unenforceable.

How can you be made to pay for court costs when you're innocent?

British Justice has just died, or at least very sleepy.
Roadrunner

Who's for a spurious accusation of a motoring offence against a member of the cabinet?
GonnaBreakABuggy

Just one?
I was thinking more like 1,000 each.


Of course, they'll probably claim it as expenses...
Giant

garry wrote:
It often feels like we're taking part in an experiment to see how far people can be pushed before they crack.


How far would we as the citizens of the country allow ourselves to be pushed before we actually took action? I really despair about the country I live in on a regular basis but what action do I actually take? None, other than ranting on here or to friends... Something really has got to give, but what the answer is I don't know!
GonnaBreakABuggy

I can see why we had gun laws passed anyway.

It was to protect politicians against the rest of us.
Bob Sacramento

I'm thinking of moving to a more democratic and fairer country - Like Zimbabwe.
Roadsterstu

It's not just motoring law though, is it?  This is the thin end of the wedge, as it were.  If this goes through, it will pervade other aspects of the law.

It is wrong.  Absolutely wrong.
woof woof

Roadster, you've got a Taser haven't you? Or at least access to one? and I'm sure you know someone on protection duty? Couldn't you arrange for a Taser to accidentally go off in Gordon's groin? Several times?
Roadsterstu

I don't have a Taser.  Probably a good job.

He needs more than a Taser jolt to his knackers, anyway.
woof woof

It'd be a start.  

It was worth asking...
JohnC

Roadsterstu wrote:
It's not just motoring law though, is it?  This is the thin end of the wedge, as it were.  If this goes through, it will pervade other aspects of the law.

It is wrong.  Absolutely wrong.


I completely agree. There can hardly be a bigger cornerstone in a democratic society than the one which allows someone to defend himself if accused of a crime and if found innocent, to walk away without penalty.

If, for cost reasons, the public have to consider whether to accept a spurious charge against them and pay up or incur legal expenses they can't afford to prove their innocence, most of the merits of our legal system will have been lost overnight.

We soon won't need Courts because the Police will become Judge, Jury and Executioner and we will have become no better a society than those around the world which our Government currently criticises.

No-one with a drop of true belief in democracy could ever consider such a change in the legal system to be fair and reasonable.
Is there any better indicator that this Government has finally achieved terminal madness?
Bob Sacramento

JohnC wrote:
Roadsterstu wrote:
It's not just motoring law though, is it?  This is the thin end of the wedge, as it were.  If this goes through, it will pervade other aspects of the law.

It is wrong.  Absolutely wrong.


I completely agree. There can hardly be a bigger cornerstone in a democratic society than the one which allows someone to defend himself if accused of a crime and if found innocent, to walk away without penalty.

If, for cost reasons, the public have to consider whether to accept a spurious charge against them and pay up or incur legal expenses they can't afford to prove their innocence, most of the merits of our legal system will have been lost overnight.

We soon won't need Courts because the Police will become Judge, Jury and Executioner and we will have become no better a society than those around the world which our Government currently criticises.

No-one with a drop of true belief in democracy could ever consider such a change in the legal system to be fair and reasonable.
Is there any better indicator that this Government has finally achieved terminal madness?


Community Support Officers to become Judge Dread characters?

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Scouse

Bob Sacramento wrote:


Community Support Officers to become Judge Dread characters?



DradusContact

Twelfth Monkey

A woman around the corner from us is a Community Support Officer, and an out-and-out weirdo.  

We had bugger-all to do with them for the first few years in our present house, and were amused to spot them planting a tree (under cover of darkness) on our street (which they do not live on) in an area of land belonging to the water board.  Over the coming weeks, they did all they could to claim the land by stealth, getting as far as trying to build a fence on part of our land bordering the 'disputed territories.'  Needless to say they were told to where they could fuck off.

Proof, were any needed, that this sort of occupation attracts the Wrong Sort.
Roadsterstu

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
A woman around the corner from us is a Community Support Officer, and an out-and-out weirdo.  

We had bugger-all to do with them for the first few years in our present house, and were amused to spot them planting a tree (under cover of darkness) on our street (which they do not live on) in an area of land belonging to the water board.  Over the coming weeks, they did all they could to claim the land by stealth, getting as far as trying to build a fence on part of our land bordering the 'disputed territories.'  Needless to say they were told to where they could fuck off.

Proof, were any needed, that this sort of occupation attracts the Wrong Sort.


Mrs Roadsterstu is a Community Support Officer.  I'll tell her where you work...

TimR

Is this the same Mrs Roadersterstu that recently got lifted for speeding in a village?
ALF

I think the existing system for motoring law enforcement is wrong, let alone this. It seems grossly unfair under the current law that if you dare to fight your corner, rather than take the points/fine, you'll end up with more points and a bigger fine! But this proposed change is incredible...
woof woof

This got a (small) mention on Quentin Wilson's page in the Daily Mirror. I think he said that something like 6,000 had signed the petition, that seems like an amazingly low figure to me and must be due to this issue receiving pretty much zero coverage by the media. No one I've mentioned it to has heard of it.
Roadsterstu

TimR wrote:
Is this the same Mrs Roadersterstu that recently got lifted for speeding in a village?


It is.  And she wasn't, she claims...!  OK, right...

Mind you, I did too, and got points, 5 years ago on the A45.  I own up to it though  
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