Got the new car list!

Martin · Got the new car list!

Slightly ahead of plan, but I got a letter this morning from the transport office to tell me I'd been given a July order slot for my new car (they are spreading the orders over 6 months) and giving me the Intranet link for the new list. As I was going to the VW garage to empty out my Passat and we have a depot next door, I decided to pop in and download the list as I can't get onto the Intranet remotely.....I just unplugged the PC in the security hut!!

Anyway, the list is slightly better (for me, my boss doesn't get what he thought!) than I thought, although as expected, it doesn't make a lot of obvious sense as it's based on whole life cost. The number of manufacturers has changed, the full list is as follows:

Audi, BMW, Citroen, Ford, Honda, Jaguar, Lexus, Mazda, Mercedes, Peugeot, Toyota, Vauxhall, VW and Volvo.

As before, there are trade down and trade up lists, which is where is gets interesting, because (for a price and it's a price you pay up front), you can get cars over the CO2 limit and even 4x4s :ohmy:

My std list has a lot of cars on it, so I'll cut most of them out and leave the 'highlights' from each range:

A3 Sportback 2.0TDI 170 Quattro Black Edition S Tronic
A3 Cabriolet 2.0TDI Black Edition S Tronic
A4 Avant 2.0 TDI 170 Executive S Line
A5 2.0 TDI 170 Sport
A5 2.0 TFSI 180 Sport (a petrol engined car....!)
A6 Saloon 2.0TDI 170 SE
A6 Avant 2.0TDIe 136 S Line
TT 2.0 TDI Quattro S Line
123d M Sport Coupe Automatic
123d M Sport Convertible
320d M Sport Touring Auto
320d SE Highline Coupe
520d M Sport Saloon
520d SE Business Edition Saloon
Accord 2.2 EX GT ADAS
X-Type 2.2 Sovereign (thought that had ended now?)
IS220d SE-L
C250CDI Sport Estate
E220CDI SE Saloon
Insignia Elite Nav 2.0 CDTI Ecoflex

Then there are the huge Upgrade and Downgrade lists and you can add any option you like, but you have to pay the list price for that option up front. The other lists work differently as well, if you downgrade then you get 1/36th of the payment back each month, if you upgrade then you have to pay it with the order!! Some examples of the extremes are a Toyota IQ at £212 back each month, but a Passat CC GT only gets you £4.77 back and at the other end of the scale I could have a Lexus IS-F for £37.5k or how about an SL500 for £51.9k? No, I didn't think so........

The Upgrade list is quite interesting though as it opens up some other options for a few hundred quid. eg.

A6 2.0TDI 170 S Line for £700
325d M Sport Touring for £900
330d SE Touring for £700
520d M Sport Business Edition for £1000
C250CDI Sport Estate Auto for £900
S80 2.4D SE Premium for £240
S80 D5 SE for £900
XC60 2.4D DRIVe SE Premium for £600

The only problem with upgrading is that there will be extra tax each month as well as laying out the cash up front and if you want a couple of extras (as I probably will), then you'll either have to do without or it starts to get silly. We're thinking about moving in the next year, so I need to be a little sensible........ :(

So, my initial shortlist, with a lot more thinking/calculating/research to do is as follows:

A4 Avant 2.0 TDI 170 Executive S Line
A6 Saloon 2.0TDI 170 SE
320d M Sport Touring Auto
520d M Sport Saloon
C250CDI Sport Estate

And maybe the 330d SE Touring, but having had a look at one, the flat standard seats and not that nice cloth not to mention the £80 more a month in tax than I pay now (would be ££350/month) and the £1000 up front does make it a tougher decision.

The 320d SE Highline Coupe would be a nice option, but I really need more space.

I'll have a think about the pros and cons and what will get driven. I've got a lot of work to do

Martin

One other thing, the life cycle is worked out at 4 years or 100k miles now rather than 120k. So 3 years for me!

Boxer6

Don't envy you having choices like that to make, TBH.

Personally, there are quite a few cars on your list I wouldn't touch, but we all know tastes in cars are wildly different even among the 50 or so of us who post anywhere near regularly!

I'm sure you'll have fun (and a few sweary words along the way!!

)

Martin

We do indeed have wildly varying tastes in cars, we see that every day!!

BeN

There are quite a lot of cars on that list that I like actually...

Frank Bullitt

Paying for extras is a pain, even if the car has a whole-life cost lower than other on the list. I'd be very, very tempted by a C250CDI Sport manual or the BMW 520d SE Business Edition - nuts to the shat-nav but the standard leather would tweak my nips.

Great position to be in though!

SpecB

Interesting stuff but complicated! I would go and drive the two Audis and the Mercedes but would lean towards the Merc.

Martin

That Merc engine is a bit of a con. You get all excited by 500nm of torque and then read the small print and find out it's only available between 1,600 & 1,800 revs. I need to find out what it is after that!

The problem with the C250 is the interior, specifically the crappy flap over the screen, some of the switch gear and the door cards. The rear door cards in particular are flat and cheap looking. Oh and it has part fake leather seats. The seats themselves are nice though, as is the steering wheel.

gonnabuildabuggy

Looks a nice list. I'd go for the 520d M Sport or the Merc C250 off that I guess based on your criteria.

given the current climate and likelihood of massive hikes in company car tax (to recover the money lost as people go for cars below the co2 threshold) I'd not spend anything upgrading.

If I were you though.......I'd get Mrs. Martin an FRV and get the BMW 320d Coupe or 123d Cabriolet!

Gooner

I quite like the idea of the Insignia, you'll get loads of kit with Elite spec and it looks a step up from the Passat. The E-class looks good too and the new ones are a lot better on CO2 than before. It's a shame BMW don't do the the 123d engine in the 3 series, but I suppose it would make the 325d obsolete if they did.

Matt

The Insignia could well be the 158bhp, 136 g/km model, too.

Martin

Roadrunner

DaveGibson

Unlike the Merc, the IS220d SE-L will have every bit of FG you can think of including automatic wipers/mirrors (auto-dimming)/lights (HID), heated/cooled leather covered seats, memory for seat/steering wheel/mirrors, parking sensors, 6-CD hi-fi with 13 speakers. I think the Multimedia/Sat-nav/Bluetooth is still extra. It does have wood trim, though, which may be a turnoff.

Since my petrol IS250 does close to 40mpg on a long run, I would expect the diesel to do somewhat more.

Martin

Grampa · Re: Got the new car list!

Parm

i'd be tempted by the a5 coupe if i could get away with two doors. I think they're doing a special offer on s.line versions where you get 19 inch wheels and a b&O sound system thrown in plus something else i can't remember.

Martin

They are, but I did include a TT, 123d coupe and a petrol powered A5!! The Scirocco is on the downgrade list.

Martin

Richard (ex-MB_insider)

gonnabuildabuggy

Thatr's the Merc gone

A5 - you know you want to.......

Gooner · Re: Got the new car list!

Frank Bullitt

Stuntman

Do you need the space of a Passat-sized vehicle, especially as you also have the Clubman in the family?

If you don't, why not look at the Scirocco or 123d options. Otherwise, it's probably hard to look past the 'sensible' choices.

I would strongly consider the 330D SE idea. Three years of high mileage with that would probably be lots of fun, albeit with a pricetag attached.

TimR

From the standard list I'd probably go for the 520D.

As I've said elsewhere Mercs just don't do anything for me. I really dislike the image of current Audis as well and from comments from test drives on here they seem quite unimpressive to drive in general (unless you've got a lot of power under your right foot).

I can't believe I'm actually liking a current BMW either

I presume Martin will need the space from a decent sized saloon as I expect the Mini is actually quite cramped in the back and his kids are growing.

Matt

Is the 123d available in the 5-door? Could rekindle that love affair - albeit with a tractor unit instead of a race car's

/tongue firmly in cheek.

Frank Bullitt

Stuntman

I think the E60 has definitely aged well - but will it be seen as a better car than its E39 predecessor? I reckon not.

Agree with you about the new 5.

TimR

I think that overall the E60 suffers a bit because I think there was a reduction in quality over the E39 when it was first released but didn't they improve the materials after a while?

It certainly doesn't look like an out of date car though.

gonnabuildabuggy

PG

I've got to be honest and say that I'm finding it hard, on your behalf, to get excited over that list. What have you dropped off? Can we see the full list?

Based on your previous and current motoring steeds, I don't really see you as another Audi A4 S Line driver piling up and down the fast lane, which means that if you want to consider an Audi, it's got to be an A6 derivative, or be left field and go for the A3 Sportback Quattro (expecially as that now has the S-Tronic box).

On the Mercs, if you want maximum FG can you get a C220 with all the goodies? Maybe a C220 estate? I can't see you in a doom spec C250 just for the engine. At 85 on the M4 220/250 won't make much difference I doubt?

I don't like the look of the BMW 5 series saloon at all, no matter how much FG it may have now. I just can't get over that bootlid. 520 estate - maybe (like Tim I never thought I'd write that but needs must....)

A Passat CC stuffed full of FG must be a possibility. It's different to Audi / Merc / BMW company fare.

If it was me, I think I'd have to persuade myself to like the Accord or Lexus.....

Martin

I'll try and answer a few questions / respond to a few points in one go.

Gooner - The Scircco is on the next list down, so it would be a possibility but we looked at one before we got the MINI and it was too small for a second car, let alone the main car

gonnabuildabuggy - The A5 is indeed a lovely car, we went to the Audi dealers today so Mrs M could have a look at the A4. However, with the seat set to my position, even the kids were cramped in the back and my 7 year old is growing like a weed!

Stuntman - Yes, we do really need that sort of space. The MINI is fine for a day out or a weekend away, but the only reason that works is because we have a bigger car. I'm am seriously tempted by the 330d idea, it would be great having a car that looks like a rep special 318d, but would be able to frighten the life out of most hot hatch drivers! However, I am loathed to put money into a company car and Mrs M is dead against the 3 series (cramped, doesn't like the interior compared to the 5 etc). Not that I will be dictated to of course!!

FB - I agree, the 5 series is a very good looking car and the new one isn't going to be, at least head on.

The face lifted car is a big improvement in terms of interior quality and I'm not too worried about longevity, as long as I don't get problems over the 3 years I'll have it.

PG - I've not dropped a lot off, most of what I've left out is just variations on the theme. There is a huge amount in the upgrade and down grade lists, but the decision is difficult enough as it is!! The C250 I could have is the Sport estate, so it has a decent amount of FG, that's not the issue, the issue is the interior. The problem with the scheme is that if I downgrade to a Passat CC, I don't get as much cash to play with as you'd think. About £600 iirc!!

Having had a proper look at the Audi dealers today, I do still like the A4 S line. I don't like the A6 after giving it a good going over, if it's an Audi then it will be an A4 (because I can't get away with an A5 or a TT!!).

One thing is clear (although we already know this!), is that we all have very different tastes. I'm pretty excited about the list and the options I have.........

Martin

I wouldn't be too concerned about excitement either, as I have a fun to drive small car already. I'm looking for something to do at least 35k miles a year in and that will probably increase as I'll now have to take up the option of 'free' fuel as my place of work has officially changed to MK. I'm going to make sure I get my moneys worth out of it!!

Also, I like big cars, I don't want something small!!

I'm not saying a 520d/A4 S line etc are or aren't fun to drive, but I'll let you know when I drive one.

As I've just said, we all have very different tastes, there are few cars on here I'd swap my choice for!

Martin

Right, enough of that....serious thoughts time!

I've done a lot of thinking and looking to get to my current shortlist, which at the moment is purely based on static impressions / personal prejudice etc!!

Audi A4 2.0TDI 170 Executive S line Avant
Negatives
- Possibly the way it drives (based on previous Audi experience so may be wrong)
- More costly in tax than everything bar the 330d
- Ridiculously long name!

Positives
- Handsome car as an Avant
- Well equipped (Xenons, leather/alcantara, bluetooth, Cruise control etc)
- Within the limit of my band, no extra cash required

BMW 520d M Sport Business Edition
Negatives
- Will be out of date within 12 months
- Too firm ride on 18s with M Sport suspension?
- £1000 of my own money will need to go into it

Positives
- Very nice looking car
- My favourite interior
- Well equipped (Full leather, bluetooth, Sat Nav, parking sensors, cruise control etc)

BMW 520d SE Business Edition
Negatives
- Will be out of date within 12 months
- No sports seats
- Not as good looking as the M Sport
- May well regret not getting the M Sport

Positives
- Still a nice looking car
- More comfortable
- Well equipped (Full leather, bluetooth, Sat Nav, parking sensors, cruise control etc)
- Could have an Auto for only £300 extra
- No extra cash required

Then we have a variation on a theme......

BMW 520d M Sport
Additional Negatives over M Sport Edition
- Part leather isn't anywhere near as nice as full leather
- No bluetooth so will need an ugly phone kit

Additional Positive
- No extra cash required

However, that's not set in stone!

Still to be looked at before being discounted
- IS220 / Accord

Still thinking about a test drive
- C250CDI

DaveGibson

Martin

I suppose that's the way it read!! I did mean that I was going to have a look and they hadn't (yet!!) been discounted.

DaveGibson

Martin, I expect you'll find the boot on the IS too small. It's nothing like the size of the Passat.

Gooner

I saw an Accord when I was out this afternoon and it looks a lot better than in pictures. Given that it's the first I've seen they aren't selling too well. But if you're thinking about it, one positive to consider is the dealer backup which was absolutely superb when I had the Civic last year. The Ford stealer couldn't offer a courtesy car so I had to get someone to follow me to my service this week and give me a lift back. Gatwick Honda came and picked the car up when they didn't have a courtesy car (I used a pool car so it wasn't an issue). Little things but it's nice to know they give a shit!

If you are looking at it though, do your company offer the Type S? The extra power and sportier styling makes it worth it over the EX GT so long as you can do without ADAS.

Martin

The Type S is on the list. Does it have as much FG? FG would be the main reason for getting an Accord I'd guess.

gonnabuildabuggy

A5 Sportback? Looks like the 2.0TDi would be within your emissions and price range. And available from October so about 3 months from ordering.

It's:

1. Close to the A5 you fancy
2. but closer to the practicality of the A4.
3. A brand new shape so won't date that quickly.

Do I get the prize?

Racing

I happened to have a ride in a new M-Sport 5-series diesel (no badge so don't know which model) this morning - I had to drop the 135i off at Park Lane's service centre in Nine Elms to have the Bluetooth looked at (callers complain they can't hear me) and got a ride back to Vauxhall station in the aforementioned 5-series.

It had the part-leather interior in black and actually it really wasn't that unpleasant. Sitting in there, I could imagine deciding to keep with it and spending the cost of full leather on some other option.

The interior of the facelifted E60 is also much nicer - specifically the door cards are much more attractive than they used to be.

That said, I think my money would go on the new A4 Avant. Can you get the 2.0 TDi in Allroad spec?? For some unfathomable reason I quite fancy that even though I'm quite aware it's just a pointless plastic-clad lifestyle version of the A4 Avant.

Boxer6

Martin

Martin

gonnabuildabuggy

Jasper

scamper

Some good drivers cars there.

I'd go for the 123d cabrio.

Martin

Martin

Eff One

scamper

Martin

Martin

gonnabuildabuggy

Racing

JohnC

Racing

That's interesting. I've no problems sending or picking up calls, it's more that callers frequently complain they can hardly hear me.

But I'm going to update the iPhone software and see if that helps.

Martin

Has anyone experience of a Blackberry and BMW bluetooth?

I've got a test drive of a C250CDI Sport Auto from the 7th to 10th August. The fleet manager almost insisted, he said it would be his choice and I should give one a go.

Who am I to refuse the chance of an extended test drive?!

Normal test drives are close to useless, I wouldn't buy a car for me, without at least 24 hours to find out what it was really like.

JohnC

Martin

I give the BMW emporium a call in the morning, as I'm in Swindon all day tomorrow. They have both SE and M Sport versions of the latest 520 lined up outside, so I might bag a quick go in the afternoon.

Our fleet guys are arranging for a 24-48 hour loan of a A4 2.0TDI 170 and a 520d. They are trying for the S line and M Sport, because I'm (slightly) concerned about the ride. I will chase them up if they don't come back to me with a date tomorrow.

JohnC

The only 5 Series M Sport I have been in was on the standard 18" wheels and was pretty good on most surfaces. It didn't like the same types of sharp edged bumps that I try to avoid in mine but when it did hit them i thought it was firm, maybe a bit more of a jar than I would like, but controlled - better than mine.

Martin

The standard 18" wheels will be what I'd have, so that's very interesting. Thanks!

What size wheels do you have on the 335d? Does it have sports suspension?

I was surprised to see that a 5 series M Sport with 19" wheels in the showroom had a space saver spare. I had a closer look at the tyres and they weren't RFTs, which was confirmed in the brochure!

So if you have 16" wheels on a 3 you get normal tyres and now with the 19" wheels you get them as well (unless that's been the case all along). Surely RFTs are either the right way to go or not?

It proably rides better on 19s than 18s!!

TimR

Didn't the magazines say that after a while a load of changes were made to the 5 and 3 to account for the hard ride on runflats.

I think it may have been after the 1 series came out as I remember them saying that'd been designed for runflats all along.

ALF

Martin

I've just had a note back from our fleet manager about arranging test drives...

Apparently he has 285 cars to order in the next 6 months, which could mean arranging 800+ test drives, which he just doesn't have the time to do. So could I please talk to my local dealers and sort it out myself

I really don't mind doing that, but the first question will be about where we get our cars from and as it probably won't be them, then they won't be quite so interested. They should be though, as they will get 3 years / 100k miles worth of profitable servicing out of me!!

I'll make a couple of calls!

Martin

I've an hour booked in a brand new (put on the road last night) 520d M Sport Business Edition Auto at 3pm.

If I like it, I can book 24 hours with it.

Good start, very helpful lady in the local BMW dealership.

JohnC

Martin

According to the website (not the last word in accuracy), the 19" wheels on the 3 series are still fitted with RFTs.

That's what makes it so strange.

JohnC

Maybe they have decided to fit standard tyres on the 5 Series because of the supply issue with 19" RFT's. I dare say there are lots more 5 Series with 19's than there are 3's and their owners/drivers will not be the type of people BMW can mess about with supply issues for long (especially when they then try to charge something like £337 plus VAT to supply and fit one corner)

Martin

I did think that might be the case, but a far as BMW is concerned, either RFTs are the right thing or not!

Frank Bullitt

E60's can all be had with a space saver (£75 option) which doesn't delete the run-flats.

The brother-in-law's SE rode very well (on runflats)

Martin

This isn’t good.

Despite my best efforts to tempt them into something else, my boss is ordering a 520d M Sport Business Edition Auto and my colleague is ordering a 520d M Sport Manual (the standard model). It sounds like they are placing their orders today, so they are ahead of me as well!

Great……..

I usually like to be a bit different. I got the Passat when others were going for A4s and 3 series, but cutting your nose off is a bit silly and I just can’t go for something inferior just to be different. It’s not that Alfa Romeo are on the list either!!!

I was seriously thinking about placing an order before I’d driven the C250, but I think I might hang on 2 weeks and give it a fair chance. Hopefully it will blow me away when I drive it, because as a static object it doesn’t hold the appeal. The A4 is definitely off the list, I can’t get something with such a compromised driving position as that would be mad.

Matt

Can't you order one in an Individual colour?

gonnabuildabuggy

Unlikely on the Argos car list!

At least they can have extras, at my last employer the car list was good (330i, 525d SE) but no extras at all were allowed except metallic (compulsory). So I could have a nice BMW but no leather and not even trade down models to afford extras. One reason cash was a better option.

Martin - I know the problem, a fair few silver 520d's in our car park but no other E36's!

Racing

Martin

No, the Merc would be the Sport model with the star in the grille and I would go for the estate because
a) It's better looking
b) I'd need the space as the saloon isn't as big as a Passat/5 Series.

Black or the dark grey are the best options.

gonnabuildabuggy

Martin

PG

Had a good look round a Mercedes C220 sport saloon that was in our visitors car park this morning. To me it's way, way better looking than a 5 series and the sport trim suited it - externally and internally.

JohnC

The C63 I drove certainly looked great and had plenty of room for 2 plus 2 children, even if the boot wasn't in the Passat league.

I think the thing which disappointed me most was the quality of some of the plastics on the dashboard and around the vents - it just wasn't what I expected from Mercedes and certainly not as good as the BMW/Audi quality.

Another thing to be careful about is that Mercedes don't include as standard many items which BMW do, such as rear parking sensors, extended interior lights, auto dimming rear view mirror etc.

Externally though I think it looks great especially in estate form.

gonnabuildabuggy

Martin

Racing

I test-drove a C320 CDi Sport and thought the interior was pretty good. Certainly streets ahead of the old C-class, the rotary heating controls in which are eye-poppingly cheap and nasty to use.

Martin

Very boring I know.........but

I've found some picture of the M Sport interior with the Cream Beige/Black trim. It's got the wrong wood, but I think it's the best interior option, nicer than all beige.

Mark

Martin

Grey? Like the weather or John Major?

Remember that blue cars are the fastest (fact!) and with a sheep in wolfs clothing I would need all the help I could get!!

Red would save me about £4 a month in tax though!

Racing

I would consider going with red for a company car (ie where re-sale isn't my concern!)! I think it looks quite good on the MSport 5-series.

Martin

It does look good in red. I have been looking.....

Mark

It's not just any old Red - it's Imola Red. I think it looks fantastic on BMW's sport models.

Martin

It does look good and you don't see many about.

"him"

Martin

"him"

Matt

A stupid pleb in a SAAB didn't see the one behind him with his lights flashing this morning. I noticed it a good 50 yards behind me, so it really shows how little some pay attention on Dual Carriage/M-Ways.

"him"

I think observation (particularly rear view mirror) is an alien concept to some... I was watching a guy in an Audi A4 (yup a TDi), tailgate and then push past everyone on the way home yesterday on the A30. He got past me, and was about 3 cars ahead when we approached a roundabout. Waiting to enter the roundabout was Police traffic car who then found himself about 6 cars ahead of "Mr A4". Seemingly undeterred (clearly he had not seen the Police car) he proceeded to do the same thing to the cars ahead of him until he was one car behind the traffic car. We were all amused to see when the traffic car put his lights on, allowed the car behind to overtake it, and pulled in the A4. I and at least 2 other drivers clapped as we drove passed the "happy pair".

gonnabuildabuggy

Martin

"him"

The wheels turn slowly in this part of the world...

Racing

Go for Imola Red then - there's a red 530d in this weeks execu-diesel shoot-out in Autocar and it looks great.

Would stand out in the carpark too!

Guitar Zero

Imola Red is stunning - it would be my colour of choice for an M sport E60 - whether I was paying for the car or not.

I would also consider white, because white with dechrome looks brilliant too.

If you go for a rare colour, it doesn't matter than your car park will look like a BMW dealer's holding compound - your car will stand out a mile

The only issue you may have is that red cars look cack when they are even the slightest bit dirty - given your mileage, maybe you should go for a silver or one of the sharky greys.

Got the new car list!

Re: Got the new car list!

Re: Got the new car list!