| Archive for The Motor Forum talking cars since 2006 |
| Blarno |
Franc: The new project car!Received a phonecall on Tuesday informing me that I was to be given a car for nothing. I had mentioned previously to the owner, whilst fitting a new headgasket to said vehicle, that should they ever come to scrap it, I would relinquish them of it. I wasn't expecting it for nothing!Anyway, here it is, it's in a completely different league to Project Graham. It just needs a name now: 
The only damage on the otherwise spotless body. 
Mint interior, complete with HUGE comedy Alpine speakers. 
1.1 litres of pure, French power. Plan of attack is uncertain. It will be stripped, with Saxo VTS suspension and brakes, but the engine choice is unknown at present. If possible, I want to keep it under 1.5 so I still get cheap tax when it's re-registered. My choices so far are: Saxo VTS/106 GTi. VTEC 1.6. 1.4 K series. 1.4 8v Pug/Citroen bottom end, with 2.0 8v Turbo head (If that is possible, I have no clue.) Or fit low-compression pistons to the 1.4 and 'make' the turbo exhaust manifold fit. I feel this is a much better idea as a track slag, seeing as it's very light and a decent increase in power will make it very quick indeed. I don't expect it to keep up with my mate's VTEC Metro, but I reckon there's a possibility it will be a surprising little thing. If I ever finish it.... |
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| GonnaBreakABuggy |
"1.4 8v Pug/Citroen bottom end, with 2.0 8v Turbo head "
Nope, but the 1.3 Rallye or 1.6 Xsi head out of the 106, fitted to the alloy 1.4 bottom end, with a silly spec cam, can easily make 130bhp... If it's 4-stud, stick some 15" wheels on it and you can fettle the 283mm 306-gti6 brakes to fit, or some 266mm 307 brakes like I've got, which are a bit lighter. edit: Bollocks, it's a 3-stud... |
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| BeN |
That looks fantastic.
What kind of name are you looking for? Male or female? 
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| Blarno |
It will be 4 stud once the VTS suspension and hubs are on. I was thinking about 15s and 306/307 brakes. Steelies, too! |
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| "him" |
Excellent project!
I can't quite make it out, but is it a 5 speed? |
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| Boxer6 |
Guillaume.
(AKA Gwillum!!)
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| "him" |
You will need to roll the rear arches (or cut them out a little), my brothers AX GTi has a VTR back end on it and it rubs on the arches...
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| GonnaBreakABuggy |
It's also on the fantastic Bosch Mono-point single injector, beast.
Similar in effect to a small gnome sitting over a venturi, occasionally throwing a bucketful of fuel in now and again, with the amount depending on the air temperature, local weather, what day of the week it is and how pissed the little bugger got the night before. |
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| Blarno |
Yes, it's a 5 speed. It also has an airbag!
I think an obvious, stereotypical French name is needed. |
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| scamper |
coffin on wheels? | ||||
| "him" |
Are you going to leave it that colour? | ||||
| Parm |
Are you still getting the 200 SX? | ||||
| Blarno |
Possibly, but I want to improve my spraying skills. I'm tempted to go full matt black and 'draw' random shit on it with chalk! |
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| Blarno |
Yes, once the Clio is sold. |
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| SpecB |
Cool.
Pierre or Franc suits it unless you want a girly name! 
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| "him" |
I like that idea... I wonder what it will weigh when finished?
I expect it should weigh less than 800KG when done? Obviously if you fit an alloy blocked lump rather than the iron one mine has it you might do better... I think the later ones like yours were around 780kg, but you will be adding heavier components than standard. |
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| "him" |
HeRJe? | ||||
| Jasper |
I notice the last owner couldn't choose between silver and black wheels. | ||||
| Blarno |
I'm going the whole hog with this one: Plastic windows, cage, stripped out. 800 kg is a good aim point, depending on the engine I decide to use. Of course, it may all go the way of Graham and never get finished. I'm ambitious if nothing else. Saying that, I'm not setting a timescale for this, it could be years. |
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| Blarno |
I think Franc is the best so far. | ||||
| BeN |
Thierry
Gilles Guy (pronounced Ghee) |
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| TimR |
When I opened this post the only bit of the photo I could see without scrolling down was the instantly recognisable roof/gutters of the Jag 
I thought that was the project car initially
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| Blarno |
That's my Stepdad's XJ40. | ||||
| GonnaBreakABuggy |
One word of advice, don't buy a Custom Cages rollcage! |
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| Blarno |
I don't aim to buy one at all. May as well have a crack at making one. | ||||
| GonnaBreakABuggy |
That'll be interesting
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| Blarno |
Like I said: Ambitious.
I'm going to have a good inspection of the Metslow's cage on Saturday, to give an idea of what's needed. |
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| GonnaBreakABuggy |
An angle grinder, a vice, a good mig welder, a die grinder, a tube notcher and a hydraulic sliding tube bender.... | ||||
| Blarno |
Got most of that at work. We use stainless tubing, though. | ||||
| GonnaBreakABuggy |
Don't use stainless. | ||||
| Blarno |
I won't. It's too expensive! | ||||
| Racing |
Excellent! Looks tidy. | ||||
| Blarno |
Not for long!
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| simonp |
I passed my test in one of those! Was even the same colour. | ||||
| GonnaBreakABuggy |
Try T45 @ £35 per metre.... |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
That's a heck of a trade up from an Astra
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| SpecB |
Woohoo! I've named a forum car!
At least this one won't be so complicated to work on and will be great fun. |
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| Blarno |
Exactly, there's nothing electronic (bar the ECU) to require wiring! |
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| Stuntman |
Most of those sound like pejorative terms for homosexualists! Franc's a good name. When you take it to Spa, it can be Belgian Franc. |
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| Frank Bullitt |
That may be what the steering wheel say's but it's an aftermarket (Saxo?) job - you won't find an airbag under there (the AX never had one, Spree should have a single-spoke unit from memory). Logic...: PSA sold the 1.5 diesel to Rover for the Metro diesel and 115D. Ergo, it must be possible to do the opposite and switch the engine in the AX to a Rover unit, i.e. the 1.8VVT unit; lighter than a Metro too... |
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| Blarno |
Definitely not an aftermarket job, my Aunty bought the car new in 1996, so it should have one as standard, IIRC. | ||||
| Frank Bullitt |
If the AX has an airbag then everything I have ever known in the world is wrong...
Airbag warning lught come on when turning the ignition? |
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| Blarno |
I will have to check when it arrives. I may well be wrong. | ||||
| "him" |
Why are you so sure the AX never had one? My Saxo is the same age, and has 2... not sure if they still work mind, but the ECU checks seem to suggest they might?
These also have the "Blarno" wheel 
I am more surprised by the car being a 1.1 TBH, I thought the 'Spree' was a 1.0?
But it has been a while since I had an AX... |
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| Blarno |
I made the assumption that it is a 1.1, it could well be a 1.0. (The headgaskets and cambelts are the same) | ||||
| "him" |
It is hardly likely to scare you to death either way TBH! Apart from perhaps the sparks coming from the door locks while going around a roundabout...
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| Gooner |
Even at that age the base AX only had a 4 speed gearbox (unless you went for the 1.5d) to get a 1.1 is quite rare - not that it matters seeing as you're gonna chuck it! The great thing I found with my 106 on which it was based was the simplicity of the electrics. There was nothing to go wrong - I'm amazed it had electric lights! |
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| SpecB |
My dad used to run a Mk1 10E Jazz as the office runabout. It had the full GT interior bar the dashboard and was great fun to drive. You could carry some speed through the bends, it just took a while to build it up. | ||||
| "him" |
How very dare you, this is NO BASE AX, it is a SPREE!
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| Matt |
I can't remember if I mentioned it or not, but I was seriously tempted by one of these a couple o months back to rag the crap out of on Dartmoor.
Might still do if I watch this thread too closely... |
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| GonnaBreakABuggy |
Well, it does end up with 2 blokes rubbing up against each other in strange positions whilst in the car.... 
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| "him" |
Is that your 306 Phillip?
If so, it is much tidier inside than it was!
On a related subject, what is wrong with "Custom Cages"? |
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| GonnaBreakABuggy |
The 'Custom' bit....you have to make them rather more Custom than expected...
Nah, seriously, they've change tube bending machines a few times over the last 10 years and haven't reset their measurements due to the different bends they're getting, so some of the cages are all over the place, in fact, since I raised the issue they're now redoing measurements on the old data, but it should have been picked up before now, it's vital safety equipment ffs... Custom cages a-pillar: 
After I binned it and made one that fitted: 
The centre tunnel brace you see, I had to take some bend off, as it was an inch short of meeting the roll hoop either side. One of the door bars had part of the cross 1/2" shorter than the other, so short of making a new tube the door bars had to be lopsided by ~1/2" side to side. Rear cross was offset by about an inch until I did some fettling, had to rebend the lower windscreen hoop to get it to go through the steering column shroud, the front strut bars were 3 inches too long, and the roof cross was 2" too short and has had to be mated to the main hoop rather than the joint between the main hoop and a-pillar hoops. It's not a bad cage now it's done: 
just give them a month or two to sort the measurements back out,
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| Frank Bullitt |
The 1.0 (45bhp) had a 4-speed 'box for most of its life but I have a feeling the last cars got a 5-speed 'box so it could be a 1.0. Makes no odds if it's going in the skip.
My mum had a 1.0 AX and it was a sprightly little thing.
'cos the AX never had an airbag, that's why
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| Guitar Zero |
Don't piss around
Put the 1.4 litre R5 turbo engine in it. 120 bhp standard - up to 170 bhp is allegedly acheivable with mild tuning |
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| Blarno |
I did consider the R5 engine, but it's a backwards step and goes against my mantra.
A Punto Turbo engine would be a good bet: 130 Bhp, no carburettor and OHC. Even without tweaking, it will shift. |
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| GonnaBreakABuggy |
Bugger that:
http://www.dp-engineering.nl/EN/p...component_package/tu_8v_compo.php |
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| TimR |
One of my mates had a 1.0 AX - a limited edition called the TRA (do you see what they did there ) - and it was surprisingly sprightly.
It even coped with having 5 on board occasionally. The most disturbing thing about driving it was how close the door was to your elbow. |
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| GonnaBreakABuggy |
The most distubing thing about driving them, is that if you take the carpet up, you can visibly see the rear wishbone mounts where they bolt to the shell flexing around when cornering....
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| Blarno |
Weld some plates in? |
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| "him" |
...and then some tubing... | ||||
| Blarno |
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| GonnaBreakABuggy |
And a lower brace, upper brace, butterfly brace, master cylinder brace (Bulkhead moves when you press the pedal)...
Fuck it, just spaceframe the thing.... |
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| Blarno |
You busy over the next couple of years?
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| Guitar Zero |
Surely an old skool carb turbo will be a piece of piss to install and an even bigger piece of piss to tune. There was an R5 turbo in PPC that was tuned to run exclusively on LPG - clean, cheap to fuel and stupid fast - why complicate matters with a Punto GT engine ?
If you want something complex - why not make an AX V6 ? - mid engined, rear wheel drive - etc, etc. |
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| Blarno |
The R5 GTT engine was notorious for overheating, boiling turbos and blowing headgaskets when pushing out standard power. I'd hate to think what a tuned one would be like.
Other than buying that 1900 quid turbo kit that Phil pointed out a few posts up, the only way I'm going to get decent power and cheap tax is the Punto GT motor. |
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| GonnaBreakABuggy |
And they have a torque 'curve' that looks like a mountain range, awful engines. | ||||
| Mark |
Save yourself a load of time - and it's probably not going to cost that much more than chucking Saxo bits at the AX. Buy this:
http://marcusfothergill.com/vehic...RSpage=6&ID=918213&popup= It's finished for a start - what happened to Graham?? Bin the AX or keep it original and minty or sell the Renault and use the AX for work. Job done.
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| Blarno |
I can get an old VTS without MOT for about 300 quid. The chances of me ever owning an R5 GTT are very, very slim. They look like an upside down skip and have thermonuclear engines. Graham was far too complex and time consuming, so I sold the good bits and scrapped the shell. The AX is no more complicated than falling off a bike.
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| DradusContact |
I think the combination of a decent but not insane engine and the low weight of an AX will make a hell of a combo.
BUT I wouldnt want to be in it if you crash, they were made from kit-kat wrappers. |
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| Blarno |
That's why I'm caging it! | ||||
| DradusContact |
You would need a hell of a cage! | ||||
| "him" |
It is a beast of a car I agree...
...and the Puma was never tested by NCAP, so I am not sure how great they are really? My AX "felt" much more sturdy once the doors and bulkhead were dynamatted, but it would not have made one jot of difference in a crash. Some cars "feel" more sturdy than others, but as far as I am concerned when it is your turn to go, that it is your turn to go... I suspect the Saxo only gets a higher score than the AX as it has airbags and pre tensioners, rather than any huge increases in shell stiffness? After all they share a floorpan! Plus the 106 doesn't get slated in the same way as the AX. |
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| DradusContact |
Puma is based on a Fiesta, which scored 3 stars for NCAP. All 1.7's had ABS and most had passenger airbags as the option was so cheap.
To compare a puma to an AX in a crash, pfft! |
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| "him" |
I wasn't doing anything of the sort, I am just suggesting that some people feel safer in a 3 star car than in a 2 star car... when actually we would both be f***ed... Often the additional points can just be for relatively trivial items such as warning lights/buzzers etc. and nothing to do with the actual crash safety.
And even if you had a 5 star car, hitting something at the wrong angle (or something exceptionally "stiff" like a tree) could result in the same thing. Play safe now! |
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| DradusContact |
True enough. Not planning on doing any sort of crashing any time soon anyway. | ||||
| GonnaBreakABuggy |
Who'd run into a tree eh, silly idea... |
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| Blarno |
1 hours work this afternoon has left me with this:
The only sound-deadening in the back is the Dynamat my Stepbrother fitted when he owned the car. 
The entire rear interior. 
One stripped door. I'm going to remove the windows and silly quarterlights and bang in perspex. 
No sound deadening here anymore. 
The sum total of the wiring so far. I'm amazed at how little there is in this car, and how easily some of the crap came out. The seatbelt mounts are about the flimsiest chunks of metal I've ever seen! There were a few stubborn bits of trim, but they were 'persuaded' out. I just need to blag some bucket seats now... |
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| "him" |
The upper rear ones you mean? I was surprised how poor they were on my brothers AX... though I suspect they aren't any better on mine? Did you manage to remove the "latches" for the folding rear seat? I had a right job getting the lower rear belt mounts out as they had rusted solid where they go through the bottom of the car... Aren't simple cars great! 
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| Blarno |
No, the front ones. I can bend them with my bare hands!
The rear seat came out easily, not one rusty bolt so far. There's only the driver's seat and doorcard left, then I can measure up for the cage building. |
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| TimR |
All I ever find underneath seats is a few coppers
You got a whole toolkit. |
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| "him" |
[Quote Jeremy Clarkson] - You are a horse of a man...
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| DradusContact |
Good start so far, keep at it. | ||||
| Blarno |
I found 21p under the passenger seat. Bonus! |
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| Blarno |
Today's update:
Got the V5 today and the engine size- 954cc. Powerhouse! 
Also, a quick trawl of Ebay reveals that Honda VTEC engines don't tend to sell for less that 750 quid, without a gearbox, so I think that idea is out of the window. No Punto GT engines anywhere, Saxo VTS engines floating around the 350 quid mark or a ton less for a VTR lump. I did stumble across an XM 2.0 Turbo with box that was going for 100 quid at the time, with a few days left. Interesting...150 bhp out of the box, with potential for a bit more with the boost turned up. Not sure if they're iron or alloy, though? |
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| GonnaBreakABuggy |
Iron.
And a bastard to actually get into the AX engine bay. |
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| Blarno |
As in impossible, or time consuming? | ||||
| "him" |
I guess if you remover the inner wings, and "space-frame" the front you will be OK? Steering lock could be an issue too... | ||||
| Blarno |
VTS may be the way forward. I really wanted a turbo....
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| GonnaBreakABuggy |
dp engineering
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| Blarno |
For less than 1900 quid! | ||||
| GonnaBreakABuggy |
Scrapyard job, the TU exhaust manifold is very easily adapted to take a turbo... | ||||
| Blarno |
Preach on...
If it's reasonably easy, ghetto and cheap, I'm up for it. I'm sure a 1.4 TU is easy enough to come by. |
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| GonnaBreakABuggy |
They're everywhere! | ||||
| Blarno |
Well, once I've sourced a suitable 1.4 TU, expect a lot of PMs about turbocharging it... | ||||
| simonp |
http://www.saxosportsclub.com/For...ic/t=17097/finish=30/start=0.html | ||||
| Blarno |
Mental!
Although it's basically a spaceframe with an AX shell on top. |
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| simonp |
I seem to recall a VTEC-powered mid-engined Saxo on Pistonheads (hoik, flob!) once, too. I'll see if I can find the link in a mo'. | ||||
| simonp |
...or did I read it in here?! | ||||
| Guitar Zero |
Page 12 of the thread
He's spent close to £20k on that |