| Archive for The Motor Forum talking cars since 2006 |
| Mark |
Ford Mondeo Revisited
This will be very brief because I did a bit on the Mondeo estate with the same engine & trim somewhere in here around August ’08. My biggest gripe back then was the interior - I felt that Ford hadn‘t really improved things over the old car. But, it appears that things have changed slightly - some of the cheaper feeling switchgear like the indicator/wiper stalks now have an improved quality and movement (although they do look the same). The same goes for the main lighting switch which now has a slightly rubberised/soft to the touch feel about it - it was simply hard plastic before. The gear lever now feels like a more expensive/solid item than it used to. Also, the ashtray now has a pushbutton opening mechanism - whereas last year the flap had to be pulled open. Of course, all these things are very minor but I am surprised at how quickly things have been subtly improved (I haven‘t seen any changes publicised - but could have missed that)- instead of waiting for the mid-production cycle facelift. The rest of the car is as good as before - needlessly large, though (in my opinion). This particular model was equipped with voice control - what a waste of time. For example - to change the heater/climate control from 20c to 24c: You have to press the ‘voice’ button on the end of the indicator stalk. You will then hear a woman that sounds something like the queen saying, “function please?” You say, “climate”. She says, “climate”. You say, “temperature”. She says, “temperature please?” You say, “24”. She says, “temperature 24”. And, the display changes to 24c. Job done - but I could have just moved my left hand 6 inches and nudged the temperature control. Genius. |
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| cbeaks1 |
You can shortcut the voice commands generally by saying stuff in a row. For eample to dial a phone number just say"dial number 555555555 dial".
Agree that it is pretty pointless though. I have probably had 5 or 6 cars with it and used it maybe 10 times, and then only to dial numbers. The temp/radio element seems like overkill. |
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| PR |
I know that Ford did have some early quality problems with the Mondeo. Like getting past 'job one' (first production car) and finding that the rear lights didn't fit properly in their aperture.
It's nice to know that some of the smaller details are being attended to, though. It's amazing the difference that things like a good column stalk action can make to your perception of a car's quality. BMW gets this very right, whereas the Laguna, for example, has quite brittle-feeling stalks which sometimes require a couple of attempts to switch the main beam on or off. |
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| "him" |
Agreed, in my bosses X5 even things like the rotary switch for the lights has a beautifully damped action, I am not a sucker for such things personally but I can see how it would make a huge difference to some... |
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| Nelson |
my Mondeo has exactly that same voice control, utterly pointless, but i have used it on numerous occassions to dial a number when on the very odd occassion my mobile is in my jacket pocket on the back seat and i can't reach it to press one of the speed dial buttons. I do use the voice control to tune to radio to Radio5Live, instead of having to take a hand off the wheel, and divert my eyes to find and press the MW button a few times. Its quite flash when you do it in front of passengers who have never experienced voice control before. I'd much prefer the ability to scroll through the radio presets from the remote steering wheel control than have a voice control anyday and why my model hasn't been fitted with the 6cd changer i will never know. Whoever specced my car went for the Sony entertainment unit without the 6cd changer, which i though was standard fit. Praise though for the Sony head unit, which not only looks great, but is stonkingly powerful and clear. That I do love.
I like your review about the interior, one thing that put me off buying a low spec Mondeo (whilst was all that i could afford, that, or a top spec previous model) was the quality and look of the interior. I have never been and will never be a fan of OTT light coloured inserts, aluminium shiny consoles, i think they make the cabin feel cheap and give it a cold ambience, though I do particularly hate the 'wood' effect trim in the Ghia models which is truly ghastly, but the piano black trim on the Titanium X Sport looks great with the red stitching. |
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| . |
Ebay will probably sought you out with a 6cd player for the Mondeo, Nelson. Could also sort you with those Eibachs you know you want, though I think ESP Design are the best for price in that regard! 
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| Skyhook |
Re: Ford Mondeo Revisited
A side effect of the pushbutton ashtray cover is a 'fun' game to play while stuck in traffic. Can you tap the top of the flap to get it to open and get your finger out the way quick enough before the flap swings up at traps it? I developed the reaction speed of a Gunslinger! 
One thing that really annoyed me about the column stalks - in the Ka you press the stalk away from you to put the main beam, pull it back to turn off. To flash the beam you pull the stalk towards you. In the Mondeo you also pull the stalk towards you to flash, but have to pull the stalk further towards you to put on/turn off the main beam. I found the extra click as you passed through the flash really annoying. A little thing, but it bugged me! |
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| Humphrey The Pug |
Those triangular blanking plates on the centre console perplex me, when I first had a play about in a Mondeo I thought thye were broken cup holders as they didn't spring out, haven't a clue what they are for. | ||||||||
| Martin |
That picture shows everything that is wrong about the Mondeo and a cheap opening flap only makes it worse!
It does sound like Ford have made some small but necessary modifications though. |
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| PR |
Higher spec cars have a starter button on the 'triangle' nearest the steering wheel. It means that moulding can be tooled the same for LHD and RHD, therefore cheaper to produce. |
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| Martin |
Blanking plates? Tut tut 
Cheaper to produce just looks cheap I'm afraid. |
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| Humphrey The Pug |
Thank you, they could've done it in a more subtle way though, having a starter button so high and prominant probably looks a bit cack, at least the Renault ones are better intergrated. I think the Mondeo interior is appalingly bad, Ford have spent all of the money on the way it drives, where you actually spend your time could be a bit nicer to look at and play with. |
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| Matt |
Buttons and silvers like that graced cheap stereos from the 90s. Why it was a design choice for Ford is beyond me. Uniform matt black like the premium makers use would be a far better option. | ||||||||
| Mark |
Yes, it is annoying. It’s (or was) the French way of doing things a few years ago. Another foible is that when you pull the wiper stalk towards you, the rear wiper kicks off and washes the rear screen - you have to press the button on the end of the stalk to wash the windscreen. And, it still uses four single jets (that go over the roof) instead of a proper spray that you get on virtually everything else in the class. Small - but very simple, silly mistakes.
I agree, Martin. They have got the potential quality there, but the whole finished thing doesn’t feel or look ‘grown up’ enough. I can’t think of a better way of explaining it. I found the older car: http://themotor.myfastforum.org/about7612.html |
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| Skyhook |
When you use the washjets on the Ka's front screen it gives a few wipes, then waits just enough time before doing a final sweep to ensure maximum smearage.
Daft. |
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| Martin |
That's supposed to be to wipe up any drips, but I imagine it does more for smearing at this time of year. | ||||||||
| . |
Works absolutely fine on the Focus without any smearage at all. I guess that all depends on the quality of your wiper blades and whats in your washer bottle! | ||||||||
| PR |
My cheap stereo from the 90s is uniform matt black. |
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| Skyhook |
Get you with your smug diesel wipers, Torque!
The Ford garage changed my wipers without asking at the last service to smear-o-matic ones. And yes, I complained! Martin, they would be fine if the pause wasn't so long. My old 1.3 Collection didn't do the pause/wipe thing at it was fine, I could do a single manual sweep if needed. |
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| PR |
The annoying thing about my wipers is that, above about 50mph, they splatter small gooey blobs of washer fluid right in my field of vision. Only on the downward sweep, though - on the way up the blades clear the screen nicely, then when returning to their resting position they make a mess. 
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| Matt |
Did you buy Currys/Comet/Argos own brand though?
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| . |
I know! Im going to grin with such pleasure everytime I use them knowing that the PrisonBitch (SE) is leaving you a smeary nasty residue.
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| Skyhook |
Of course, it won't matter so much about your rear wash wipe, what with the plumes of black soot that follow your car... | ||||||||
| . |
Not far from the truth at the moment either!
But then plumes of black soot are the defining point on a Sport diesel car. |
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| PR |
Yes - it lets drivers of the petrol cars you attempt to see off know when you are really trying...
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| . |
Or leave dirty marks on brand new white garage doors! | ||||||||
| PR |
Oh yes. That too! | ||||||||
| . |
Its also useful for;
A. Being anti-social towards members of Sustrans whom ride their bikes on the road near work. And B. Being anti-social to emmets who walk in the middle of the road in Looe when you try to get past them. 2nd gear, foot down, no revs = lots of black smoke. And yes it lets the person behind know im trying. By the time they have got through the soot, I have cleared of into the distance using all my twelfty million torques on offer. |
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| Guitar Zero |
New Mondeo is ace, all the cheap interior talk is ballax.
The end. |
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| PR |
Finally some sensible talk! |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
I thought you didn't work for them anymore? Sorry but much as I'm sure as I'd love the new Mondeo to drive, having seen the interior of the Insignia, were I a 20K pa rep again I'd be taking the Insignia as the view for 5 hrs per day, 5 days per week would be nicer. If you loved them so much surely you'd have bought one
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| Guitar Zero |
Yes Sticky - I buy examples of every car that I think is brilliant
Can't move for XFs, 330ds, RS4s and Mondeos round my gaff.
Insightful comments from someone who hasn't driven either. There isn't anything wrong with the interior quality of the Mondeo - it's the style that people have an issue with - don't confuse the two. |
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| Matt |
Do you have to have driven a car to appreciate a dashboard? I haven't driven an XF, but I know it's interior looks the most expensive in its class from sitting in one, same as the Passat interior trumps all others whilst probably not being any better built than the latest Accord. | ||||||||
| PR |
When commenting on a car's interior appeal from a '5hrs per day; 5 days per week' perspective, then yes - it probably helps. Personally I fail to see anything appealing at all about the Insignia cabin with its great slab of buttons and that ghastly steering wheel, which would be enough to put me off any car. That is of course a completely uninformed opinion, but I gather that's quite acceptable. |
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| Skyhook |
I have to say the Mondeo dash worked well enough, with the usual Ford ergonomic clarity, apart from the niggles I've mentioned.
As Guitar Zero said, most complaints are over the look of the thing - and I have to agree. The sliver slab did lift the console, but looked a lot cheaper than it felt. I also couldn't understand why it needed so many buttons - instead of multi-function buttons like on cheaper cars the Mondeo gives each function its own button. It was odd too that Ford gave us such a big car then felt the need to reduce interior space by fitting such a huge centre console... to fit all the buttons? It seems like a chance missed to make the interior feel massively spacious, instead of just really spacious. I must finish writing my Test Drive of the Mondeo, but I will say after 3,500 miles I couldn't see what all the magazine fuss was about. It certainly wasn't a bad car, but there was no sparkle to the steering or handling, and comfort wasn't very impressive either. I was driving the 1.6 so the performance wouldn't be enough to bring the handling alive, but even so the rest of the class must be poor if this lead it. |
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| Martin |
As someone who is in the 5 hours a day, 5 days a week camp.....
You do need to drive a car really to find out more than just what it's like to drive, but you only truly appreciate the nice touches when you've had one for more than a test drive. The most important areas inside are the seats and the feel of everything you touch, from the steering wheel and gear knob through to the column stalks and stereo controls (ideally on the wheel). I would drive a new Mondeo before writing it off completely because I may me 'wowed' by it so much that interior didn't matter. I doubt it, but that's just based on a 5 minute sit in one. 5 mins was enough though! I've not been in an Insignia, but surely it can't be any worse? Didn't Autocar report on their Mondeo feeling a little baggy and work after about 20,000 miles? The Passat looked and even smelt like new at that mileage and when you have to keep your car for 120,000 miles, how it wears is very important. The Passat is a really nice place to spend some time, the seats are comfy and supportive, everything you touch feels of pretty good quality and I get a warm feeling at silly o'clock in the morning when you get it. Even now, after almost 3 years (32 months) and 90k miles. It would be nicer if the silver trim was aluminium rather than plastic, but the nice warm red glow from the indirect lighting reflects nicely off it even so! |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
I've been in the 5hrs/5 days camp and you describe it spot on - it's the look/feel of what you interact with that makes a difference - I chose my first BMW (an underpowered 316) for that reason - sitting in traffic on the M1, 0-60 and handling counted for nothing. From my 5 minute sits in both the Insignia seemed a far nicer place to be, also a bit cockpit like in the way the car curved around you - useless for mini-cabbing but fine for one person trips up the M6 on a dark tuesday evening. I'm sure the Mondeo is a better car technically but at the moment I think the Insignia might steel some sales. |
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| Martin |
Quite. When your at 10/10ths down a B Road then an Elise interior will do just fine. On a damp horrible morning on the A420, A34, M40, A43 etc, then your priorities change considerably! | ||||||||
| Humphrey The Pug |
I like the drive of Mondeo's it has that typical Ford feel where every major control, steering, brakes, clutch and gearchange are weighted perfectly, the 2.0 TDCI was loud and a bit course and the interior was crap, plasticky and that awful silver dash.
As a drive it's great but to spend most of your day in I wouldn't put up with the interior as that is more important to me than the way it actually drives. |
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| Mark |
I do have to take issue with that - I've done around 2500 miles in 2 cars and I think the steering is nothing short of excellent; and way better than anything else in that class - although I haven't driven an Insignia so far. Add a little more weight and it's easily as good as most BMW systems - quite an achievement in my opinion. |
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| Skyhook |
I should add I've not driven anything else (current) in the class. It was certainly better than last gen Passats (though not in interior quality) and Lagunas, but you had to put a lot more movement into the wheel in corners and the steering had a lot less feel than I was expecting. It was just a vehicle. Only when really pushing on did it lift its skirt a bit and become fun.
After owning (well, company car) a 'bow-tie' model Mondeo I was expecting a lot more from it, but I couldn't wait to drive the Sportka again - it isn't even that more uncomfortable. |
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| DaveGibson |
That would be the replacement engine.
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| needmorepower |
I'll add my tuppence here (though I may bore the more attentive readers as I've said this before).
I've driven my current steed (1.8tdci Edge) for 12,000 miles in 5 months so feel qualified to be in the '5hrs a day 5 days a week' camp. The interior is built badly and is possibly the worst feature of the car in my opinion. The carpets under the drivers seat are frayed already (it's an 07 on 25K) and never fitted properly in the first place. The centre console has required three tightens on the reatining bolts from me to prevent it sounding like a wooden ship in a storm. The seats are very uncomfortable for both myself and my wife (neither of us is an 'odd' body shape but I accept this maybe us). What you can quantify, however, is that they offer no real support and the headrest offers no support whatsoever. The quality of the plastics used for the window control panel, glovebox lid and the headlight unit is off very low quality (or at least appears to be which is the important thing). Other things that irritate include The aforementioned ashtray cover. Feels cheap (although mine is the older one without the push button).What really irkes me about that cover is that it doesn't shut fully so that at night you can see the light from the ashtray shining out. Is it major? No. Does it pee me off? Yes. The main beam procedure.... just dumb but there you go. The fabrics all look very dirty very quickly. I regularly vacuum the car but the whole interior just looks grubby within a day. Not sure why but it is depressing when you've just cleaned it. Mostly, however, I get quite ired by the stupid fake chrome shiny bollox around the air vents that not only look crud but also reflect in the door mirrors to a quite annoying degree.
Sorry, just no. Not the end. Some of my issues with the interior are style ('cos it's rubbish) and I accept that. However, the simple fact is it is less well built, less comfortable and less pleasant to be in than my previous Vectra. Which, to me, is just staggering. However, it does urinate all over the Vectra for driving. I like the steering (sorry Jase) and the ride/handling balance is very good. it's massive amounts more fun to punt than the Vectra (and also than the Passat and Bora I had temporarily [sorry Martin] - although they had better interiors!) |
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| Skyhook |
I'm glad it's not us me! I found after driving for anything more than 40 miles I got out the car walking like old man Steptoe, something about the seats seemed to lock my hips, uncomfortable on a longer drive. That was a big surprise as Ford's have always suited me perfectly in the past.
I didn't notice the vent surrounds, but the lit up switches reflected badly in the driver side door mirror, massively distracting at night.
No worries. I've not driven a Vectra, but I'd certainly agree about the Passat. Coming from the Sportka (SE) it felt rather dead (perhaps to be expected as they have different agendas), I would never call it lifeless but lacked 'sparkle', unless really pressing on. Again though, I was only in the 1.6. |
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| Twelfth Monkey |
And most hifi, from the mid- to the genuinely high end, is silver. Often hewn from billets of aluminium. |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
Now that's what I call a way to make money - turning Aluminium into Silver - what chemical process is used to do this?
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| Matt |
Yes, but they don't look like cheap plastic shite like that centre console.
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| Twelfth Monkey |
Sticky, 'tis purest alchemy. That or shameful linguistic imprecision on my part. I hang my head...
Matt, I didn't want to have to say that! I've never sat in that spec of Mondeo or in the new Fester and therefore cannot comment on quality, but the 'consoles' look truly terrible to my eyes, and I have the feeling that they will date at a shocking rate. |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
I don't think the Mondeo centre console is hewn from an aluminium billet somehow ... though I think they have improved it while the car's been in production ... the one I had in November was almost brand new and the interior certainly wasn't that bad. And to drive it was like a big comfy Focus, in all the best ways ... |
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| Twelfth Monkey |
Perfectly happy to take your word for it, Nick. It's just looks a bit Alba/Amstrad in photos. I think I object to the shapes, really. The triangular 'lugholes' are just dreadful. | ||||||||
| PG |
And thers is the difference. Silver plastic is not "hewn from billets of aluminium". |
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| scamper |
A Boxster S scamper specced cosmetically still has plastic `silver' dash inserts (although good looking ones), while my car has a slab of real brushed aluminium. | ||||||||
| ALF |
Re: Ford Mondeo Revisited[quote="Skyhook] One thing that really annoyed me about the column stalks - in the Ka you press the stalk away from you to put the main beam, pull it back to turn off. To flash the beam you pull the stalk towards you.In the Mondeo you also pull the stalk towards you to flash, but have to pull the stalk further towards you to put on/turn off the main beam. I found the extra click as you passed through the flash really annoying. A little thing, but it bugged me![/quote] The Focus does this and it is a tad aggravating - if driving at night and putting the main beam on and off a lot it's just "CLICK CLICK CLICK" as you switch it on and off - I wonder if this is one reason my wife barely bothers with main beam? |
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| Matt |
This would be a start.
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| "him" |
It could be worse, it could be "wood effect"... 
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| PR |
At least it's got a power button!
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| "him" |
True... and a "Ford POWER" button too , just in case you were worried someone had sneaked a VAG lump under the bonnet... | ||||||||
| Matt |
The 'wood' absolutely undoes all the hard work by this market to appear more premium in one fell swoop. It's 1999 Kia-grade. | ||||||||
| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
I agree. How on earth could somebody (especially a professional designer) look at that and say it was OK. |
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| PR |
I can only assume that market research concludes that this is what buyers want in their Ghia models. My auntie drives a current shape Mondeo Ghia wagon, and it was a Ghia that she/my uncle specifically wanted. Thankfully it has the 18-inch alloys so it's not all bad! |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Good point, but I still think there's a difference between someone answering in the affirmative to "do you like wood trim?", to that sorry excuse for a trim panel. Or perhaps they should have asked a second question, namely "do you want it to look like real wood, or like a 1990s Korean minicab?". |
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| scamper |
I don't think it looks too bad in the pics. But what do i know having full beige trim in my car
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
Seconded - but then I ran an Escort Ghia back in the 80's - the one with the big slab of wood or something across the width of the dash. Plus our FRV has wood trim as well. But...did you really choose Beige? |
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| scamper |
Might have done....... 
I also had a 1996 rover 216i which i thought the `wood' strip looked a touch above. |
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| "him" |
Is that a BMW "Signature" tailored, colour coded, shopping bag in the passenger footwell? | ||||||||
| Matt |
To his credit, we call it scamper-spec, but it doesn't have the sat nav. Tut tut, scamps, must try harder!
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| scamper |
Actually, and this is true, i asked the dealer to put on "signiture" leather on if i recall, the centre console etc and he basically refused saying, "its not worth it, the full price goes into the finance figures, as it adds nothing residually" |
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| PG |
That black looks much better. I wonder how long it will be before some aftermarket company offers new black panels for Fords? scamper - that's not "full beige". You've got a class interior - any colour you like on the seats and doors, but always, always, always, a black steering wheel and dash top. |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Sensible though - a beige dashtop would reflect like buggery | ||||||||
| Skyhook |
Now this is how to do it...
(apart from the horrid steering wheel boss, passenger airbag sticker [incidentally the gap is so large around the airbag cover that I'm sure it could fully deploy with the cover still in place] and gaitor around the gearlever being too high in this pic) |
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| cbeaks1 |
The newish Titanium X Sport has Piano black - it is a lot better. |
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| Gooner |
Many of the foibles pointed out here are present on my Focus which is, remember, a car that went into production 3 years before the current Mondeo. See my 1000mile report (due shortly) for what I think of the Mondy's little brother. | ||||||||
| Matt |
Yes, this is more agreeable. It's odd as the S-Max interior seemed really nice when I drove one and it's quite similar, but it just doesn't sit as well in the Mondeo to my eyes.
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| . |
Not sure what the issue with Ford's main beam operation system - its quite simple really - lots of other cars use it too. I find it more intuitive to use than the 'push me, pull me' system some mfr's use. | ||||||||
| Skyhook |
It feels horrible, the extra resistance of the flash position you have to go through for main beam. And it makes it slower to dip your lights when there is an oncoming car. |
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| PR |
The daftest thing I found about the pull-towards main beam on my Focus was that, if you happened to click it when the lights were switched off, the position was memorised so that next time you switched the lights on you would get main beam, despite the fact that the stalk does not remain in a specific position for that setting.
I'm sure this explains why you see so many previous generation Mondeos (in particular) driving around with full beams up. |
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| . |
[quote="Skyhook] the extra resistance of the flash position you have to go through for main beam.[/quote]
Mate, grow a set! You big girls blouse. If your struggling then starting pumping some iron! What has Mrs S married, a man or a mouse?
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| Skyhook |
Well, she hasn't married a 'man' who likes to wear tight spandex shorts and sit groin to bum with other men getting wet in a canoe in the name of 'sport'. "My, what a big oar you have, I can see you certainly don't drive it up the estuary coxless". 
She has married a man who appreciates good design and ergonomics though! |
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| . |
Just aswell I am not of the spandex variety of rower now. But thank you for commenting on my big oar, again. Not that theres anything wrong with tight spandex shorts and getting wet now! In the right company, of course.
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| Mrs Skyhook |
Ahem, I think I can answer for myself...
I married 5 foot 5 (and a half) of rampaging BEAST. A sensitive rampaging beast though, for whom the feel and action of his headlight stalk is uber-important. |
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| Roadrunner |
The best dip switch I have ever used was the floor-mounted button in the Royce. |
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| Skyhook |
Well of course. We've all owned one of those so I thought it was too vulgar to mention
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| PR |
I was going to mention the one in current BMWs, but I think I've been pre-emptively trumped! One thing I'm not sure about is these newfangled auto-dipping systems like BMW's 'High Beam Assist'. I'd be interested to try one but I can't see it being a feature I would ever wish to have in my car. |
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| DaveGibson |
Had one of those in my parents' 1960 Austin Cambridge. |
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| Nelson |
that instantly becomes makes it look more attractive, more expensive and classy as a result of replacing the aluminium inserts for piano black ones. That is actually the spec I would choose. I still don't like the odd shape at either side of the hi-fi unit, okay one of for the Ford Power button which is okay, I suppose, but the other blanked off one looks crap. I suppose they have to do it symetrically to cater for left and right hand drive markets. |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Still not quite right to my eyes. What I'd like for that panel would be either a light-coloured wood that looks like real wood and isn't over-polished the way most wood trim is; or a darker metal finish like that fitted to the Brera S (which Racing commented on) and also in the Brera I drove last year. | ||||||||
| Frank Bullitt |
That's playing at beige - witness the worst A2 interior colour option although the piccie doesn't really pick out how beige it is: [img]http://www.supercar.co.uk/ContentDelivery/VehicleImage.axd?OfficeId=1&VehicleId=600420837&View=2&Width=479&Height=319&DefaultImage=audi&UC=2[/img] |