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Giant

Ford KA

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ford-ka-2016


simonp

Does the current come with 5 doors?
Blarno

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Frank Bullitt

I was going to suggest it looked like some shit-box from the same factory as the EcoSport, read the article and had it confirmed.
PhilD

There must be a market for a cool small Ford, yet they serve up this shit?
Michael

The original was clearly an opportunity wasted on Ford. The last one was dull but this is terrible.
gonnabuildabuggy

Michael wrote:
The original was clearly an opportunity wasted on Ford. The last one was dull but this is terrible.


Totally. I drove a lot of the original ones and enjoyed the handling, even if they weren't the last word in power. Our Part time reps had them and most loved them.

"designed to fit below the Fiesta in terms of both price and style." - no shit sherlock, is it also designed to fit below the Focus too?

Personally I suspect the £300 Focus will be a better car.
BeN

Ugh, terrible.

It speaks volumes when you have the Kia Rio as your benchmark...
Humphrey The Pug

WTF are Ford playing at, a sector that seems dominated by young buyers; many being female and they serve up that yawn fest.

All my daughter's friends want a 500, they can't afford one so the next one on the list is a KA; it won't be anymore.
Bob Sacamano

"Styled" by the same person that came up with the B Max and C Max by the look of it.
Twelfth Monkey

They do seem to be targeting the pensioner market. †And it's horrible in stance. †Looks like someone who's just got out of bed on a winter's morning onto a cold tiled floor.

I wish I knew how to tinker with images enough to be able to change the number plate to SH17 BOX.  I'm sure it won't be quite that bad, but the plate they've chosen seems begging alteration.
JohnC

That is truly awful and will only appeal to the tiny market of blind pensioners with a driving licence.

As Humphrey said, there is a massive market for young buyers and this ticks none of their boxes.
Stuntman

That is beyond disappointing.  A real missed opportunity.
Martin

Awful looking thing
PhilD

We just need Nelson to love it and we are done here  
Big Blue

My word that really is mogodon on wheels.
PhilD

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
And it's horrible in stance. †Looks like someone who's just got out of bed on a winter's morning onto a cold tiled floor.



Great line, anyone would think you are the journo on here!
Michael

Having just read the Abarth 124 first drive on Autocar that doesn't even get close.
gonnabuildabuggy

JohnC wrote:
That is truly awful and will only appeal to the tiny market of blind pensioners with a driving licence.

As Humphrey said, there is a massive market for young buyers and this ticks none of their boxes.


Much as there is, I'd wager it's more likely an elderly buyer who actually buys new cars.

Fiat 500's are very much on kids want lists, but the only KA's I know of driven by kids are actually Mk1's as this is a far as parents are willing to go. Amongst big little GBB's 17 yr old driving school peers' only one has a new car (Renault Clio I think). The rest are driving either UP/107/Aygo's a few years old, or older Focus/KA/Corsa, etc. the exception is the lad with the Accord estate which supposedly only cost £700 to insure.
Humphrey The Pug

PhilD wrote:
We just need Nelson to love it and we are done here †


Nothing beats a Corsa.
Bob Sacamano

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
JohnC wrote:
That is truly awful and will only appeal to the tiny market of blind pensioners with a driving licence.

As Humphrey said, there is a massive market for young buyers and this ticks none of their boxes.


Much as there is, I'd wager it's more likely an elderly buyer who actually buys new cars.

Fiat 500's are very much on kids want lists, but the only KA's I know of driven by kids are actually Mk1's as this is a far as parents are willing to go. Amongst big little GBB's 17 yr old driving school peers' only one has a new car (Renault Clio I think). The rest are driving either UP/107/Aygo's a few years old, or older Focus/KA/Corsa, etc. the exception is the lad with the Accord estate which supposedly only cost £700 to insure.


I know quite a few kids with new/nearly new 500s - they're incredibly popular with young girls and, as Humph says, if they can't stretch to one of those they go for the Ka version.
Bob Sacamano

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
JohnC wrote:
That is truly awful and will only appeal to the tiny market of blind pensioners with a driving licence.

As Humphrey said, there is a massive market for young buyers and this ticks none of their boxes.


Much as there is, I'd wager it's more likely an elderly buyer who actually buys new cars.

Fiat 500's are very much on kids want lists, but the only KA's I know of driven by kids are actually Mk1's as this is a far as parents are willing to go. Amongst big little GBB's 17 yr old driving school peers' only one has a new car (Renault Clio I think). The rest are driving either UP/107/Aygo's a few years old, or older Focus/KA/Corsa, etc. the exception is the lad with the Accord estate which supposedly only cost £700 to insure.


I know quite a few kids with new/nearly new 500s - they're incredibly popular with young girls and, as Humph says, if they can't stretch to one of those they go for the Ka version.
Frank Bullitt

Bob Sacamano wrote:
gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
JohnC wrote:
That is truly awful and will only appeal to the tiny market of blind pensioners with a driving licence.

As Humphrey said, there is a massive market for young buyers and this ticks none of their boxes.


Much as there is, I'd wager it's more likely an elderly buyer who actually buys new cars.

Fiat 500's are very much on kids want lists, but the only KA's I know of driven by kids are actually Mk1's as this is a far as parents are willing to go. Amongst big little GBB's 17 yr old driving school peers' only one has a new car (Renault Clio I think). The rest are driving either UP/107/Aygo's a few years old, or older Focus/KA/Corsa, etc. the exception is the lad with the Accord estate which supposedly only cost £700 to insure.


I know quite a few kids with new/nearly new 500s - they're incredibly popular with young girls and, as Humph says, if they can't stretch to one of those they go for the Ka version.


I don't know anyone with a Ka, but 500's are like flies around here - local dealer has some offer with something like a £1000 deposit then £120pcm on a 1.2 Pop - okay it's the bully basic but for an 18 year old girl with an income that's got more appeal than a night on the Jaeger's.
Humphrey The Pug

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
JohnC wrote:
That is truly awful and will only appeal to the tiny market of blind pensioners with a driving licence.

As Humphrey said, there is a massive market for young buyers and this ticks none of their boxes.


Much as there is, I'd wager it's more likely an elderly buyer who actually buys new cars.

Fiat 500's are very much on kids want lists, but the only KA's I know of driven by kids are actually Mk1's as this is a far as parents are willing to go. Amongst big little GBB's 17 yr old driving school peers' only one has a new car (Renault Clio I think). The rest are driving either UP/107/Aygo's a few years old, or older Focus/KA/Corsa, etc. the exception is the lad with the Accord estate which supposedly only cost £700 to insure.


In a few years time; as a 3 or 4 year old car, this KA will be affordable to alot of young buyers who are in their first job; they can finally ditch their heap that saw them through uni/A levels and get something decent, however they won't buy a three year old KA as it looks awful and " only old people drive them".

Generally if you get them young, people are more likely to stick with a brand; they will go from a city car to a small hatch to a crossover to a people carrier etc, through their life, they will buy their kids an older version because "Ford's have always given us stirling service".

There is absolutely nothing stylish about this KA, the interior is already dated too.
Bob Sacamano

So we're all agreed then - this is a swing and a miss from Ford?
Big Blue

Looks like they keeled over on the backswing to me!
PhilD

Heart attack getting the golf bag out of the Lexus?
gonnabuildabuggy

OOI Humph, any idea what the split on new car sales is by age group?
Twelfth Monkey

PhilD wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
And it's horrible in stance. †Looks like someone who's just got out of bed on a winter's morning onto a cold tiled floor.



Great line, anyone would think you are the journo on here!


Too kind as always, Mr D!
Giant

As 12th said, Ford really didn't seem to realise the potential of the original. As for this one, Is it really that bad? It won't appeal to kids but we're told kids don't buy cars or even get licenses these days.  It's no worse than the Viva, which is inexplicably popular round here, although I do live along the retirement coast! However mk2 KAs are so rare they are almost noteworthy when I see one.
PhilD

Giant wrote:
. As for this one, Is it really that bad? It won't appeal to kids but we're told kids don't buy cars or even get licenses these days.


says who?
Bob Sacamano

PhilD wrote:
Giant wrote:
. As for this one, Is it really that bad? It won't appeal to kids but we're told kids don't buy cars or even get licenses these days.


says who?


London-centric media
PhilD

Bob Sacamano wrote:
PhilD wrote:
Giant wrote:
. As for this one, Is it really that bad? It won't appeal to kids but we're told kids don't buy cars or even get licenses these days.


says who?


London-centric media


Tis true here - Uber is much cheaper!
gonnabuildabuggy

PhilD wrote:
Giant wrote:
. As for this one, Is it really that bad? It won't appeal to kids but we're told kids don't buy cars or even get licenses these days.


says who?


Oddly, some of big little GBB's friends seem in no rush to get a license or learn. I think the cost of lessons, and less access to parents cars to learn in outside lessons (due to high cost of insuring and parent's driving stupid cars for that lifestage) does put quite a lot off. The other factor is the high cost of insurance for a car if they were able to buy one.

7 months on from their Birthdays, big little GBB is the only one of our maternity class to have actually passed his test and none of the others are even close to taking their test.

In terms of buying cars, then it seems many parents are clueless (and potentially scared) of buying something cheap and secondhand for/with their offspring so again you get the situation that unless the parents lease a new car for them, even when they pass their test they will have nothing to drive if parents cars are uninsurable for new drivers (the Mini is only group 12 or so but costs me £700 extra for big little to be able to drive it).
Frank Bullitt

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
In terms of buying cars, then it seems many parents are clueless (and potentially scared) of buying something cheap and secondhand for/with their offspring so again you get the situation that unless the parents lease a new car for them, even when they pass their test they will have nothing to drive if parents cars are uninsurable for new drivers (the Mini is only group 12 or so but costs me £700 extra for big little to be able to drive it).


My aspiration for FB Junior is that he does one of these 'crash' driving test sessions, as his birthday is late in the school year he may well need to be driving for work shortly after his 17th birthday.

Quite a few people at work are getting salary sacrifice lease cars - a colleague has a CitroŽn C1 that costs him just over £100pcm and his 17 year old daughter drives it on the global insurance - okay she isn't getting NCD build up but for a couple of years it's a no-brainer.
Racing Teatray

Gosh that's horrid. Looks like somebody took a last-generation Korean city car and fitted it with the schnozz from an Aston Martin Cygnet.
PhilD

Racing Teatray wrote:
Gosh that's horrid. Looks like somebody took a last-generation Korean city car and fitted it with the schnozz from an Aston Martin Cygnet.


of course!
gonnabuildabuggy

Frank Bullitt wrote:
My aspiration for FB Junior is that he does one of these 'crash' driving test sessions, as his birthday is late in the school year he may well need to be driving for work shortly after his 17th birthday.

Quite a few people at work are getting salary sacrifice lease cars - a colleague has a CitroŽn C1 that costs him just over £100pcm and his 17 year old daughter drives it on the global insurance - okay she isn't getting NCD build up but for a couple of years it's a no-brainer.


I'd suggest (and I'm sure you will look into it) some of the options for learning car control before he's 17 to help the process.

My eldest was doing Autotests from 14 yrs old, which no doubt helped the learning process as once he was 17 he was primarily learning road craft not car control.

Interesting that the NHS insurance covers 17yr olds, that is a massive benefit (£1200 a year), especially as the odds on a child having an accident 17-18 are fairly high, so I guess that means no increase in premium should she shunt it too. I'm guessing that as it's a mass policy then fronting isn't an issue and the car is in his name?
Roadsterstu

Michael wrote:
The original was clearly an opportunity wasted on Ford. The last one was dull but this is terrible.


This. Perhaps they have their sights set firmly on the geriatric end of the market.
Frank Bullitt

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
Interesting that the NHS insurance covers 17yr olds, that is a massive benefit (£1200 a year), especially as the odds on a child having an accident 17-18 are fairly high, so I guess that means no increase in premium should she shunt it too. I'm guessing that as it's a mass policy then fronting isn't an issue and the car is in his name?


It's not NHS insurance, it's provided by the lease company, the whole cost is covered by the end user and tax liability management, not the NHS; the saving on NI is the reason it's offered (the leases are salary sacrifice). Salary sacrifice means you don't pay tax or NI on the rental but you do get hit for company car tax - as my colleague noted he could probably get a C1 for a comparable sum from a lease company but insuring his 17 year old daughter on it? No chance.  The premium isn't affected by car accidents.
gonnabuildabuggy

Frank Bullitt wrote:
It's not NHS insurance, it's provided by the lease company, the whole cost is covered by the end user and tax liability management, not the NHS; the saving on NI is the reason it's offered (the leases are salary sacrifice). Salary sacrifice means you don't pay tax or NI on the rental but you do get hit for company car tax - as my colleague noted he could probably get a C1 for a comparable sum from a lease company but insuring his 17 year old daughter on it? No chance. †The premium isn't affected by car accidents.


That's interesting, I hadn't realised you could get lease deals which include insurance. How does this work? e.g. could I get a C63 AMG and just be covered on the lease companies insurance? Or is is a "global policy" just for the NHS employees involved in the scheme? If so, could you get a C63 or similar with no insurance implication.

Certainly a winner however you look at it.
Tim

Dull.
Looks like a VW Fox with Ford badges stuck on.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

It's been on sale in South America for about 18 months and in the Indian sub-continent as the Ford Figo for almost as long. Was mooted for sale in the UK from late 2015 but the launch date kept slipping whilst it was "Europeanised".

I was originally looking at replacing my 2014 Ka with this but so glad I chose the Fiesta !
Boxer6

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:
It's not NHS insurance, it's provided by the lease company, the whole cost is covered by the end user and tax liability management, not the NHS; the saving on NI is the reason it's offered (the leases are salary sacrifice). Salary sacrifice means you don't pay tax or NI on the rental but you do get hit for company car tax - as my colleague noted he could probably get a C1 for a comparable sum from a lease company but insuring his 17 year old daughter on it? No chance. †The premium isn't affected by car accidents.


That's interesting, I hadn't realised you could get lease deals which include insurance. How does this work? e.g. could I get a C63 AMG and just be covered on the lease companies insurance? Or is is a "global policy" just for the NHS employees involved in the scheme? If so, could you get a C63 or similar with no insurance implication.

Certainly a winner however you look at it.


If the system used down there is the same as ours, there's nothing over 110g/km (or whatever it is) of carbons, allowed! There's also a £16K list price limit for users under 2500 business miles/year or £20 for over 2500. There can be really notable inequities too, as the mileage doesn't appear to be calculated over the 3-year duration of your current lease; rather, on re-applying, the car leasing department look t the previous 3 months claims and, if the projection from that shows you driving <1850 miles p.a. that's it - no lease car!

One of my colleagues fell foul of that when she had a new Staff Nurse to mentor, as they used the newbies car most of the time to help her 'learn' the catchment area. She could have appealed, I reckoned, but chose to buy her own car instead as she's only 4 and a bit years from retirement.

I should note that these rules ONLY apply to community nurses/district nurses  (in Glasgow at any rate). Doctors (and dentists) aren't subject to any mileage expectations, nor are they limited to the same degree on vehicle choice either. Even with that though, I still don't think something like a C63 would be permitted!

When I first got my Legacy I looked on the lists to see how much it would cost me to lease (we were allowed to get such things then; I also checked out the E60 M5 too!!) £609 per month plus £30 or £40-odd monthly in tax! The M5 came in around £800-ish IIRC . . .
Frank Bullitt

Sounds like your scheme has an element of subsidy, this one isn't and there aren't any restrictions - indeed, the higher the lease cost the more NI the Trust saves - my old boss got a quote on a Vantage (can't remember what the figure was though) but thought he might end up divorced if he went for it!

The bloke I mentioned above with the C1 does no business miles at all. The Trust are encouraging it for all staff although there is an issue with the new CARE pensions as the advice 3 years ago mentioned it would affect pension only if you had the lease in the best of the last three years, but now it impacts on your pension throughout your employment.
Boxer6

Yes there is a subsidy element FB, though that too has been reduced since I was on the scheme and at that time also varied depending on engine size; £117 p/m for under 1600cc and £129 for over, though I believe it's now a flat-rate £112.

Even so, and despite the limitations on what one can have, it's still a far cheaper way of motoring than having to buy your own car, as my colleague is discovering!

I was thinking about the M5 cost when I was out with the dogs, too; I seem to think now that it was nearer £1200/month than £800. My mistake.

The other thing we get that you didn't touch on is a mileage allowance, whether leased or privately owned. They changed things in (I think) 2013 so non-lease drivers were more appropriately recompensed (IMO anyway!) from 24ppm to 63ppm plus a lump sum to cover wear & tear which was also paid monthly - IIRC that worked out around £55-60 p/m. that only lasted about a year before they took away the lump sum payment and also dropped the mileage rate to 56ppm, to howls of protest from everyone except the unions - bunch of useless tossers!! Anwaayyy  . . . . .

I ran my second cars as work cars to 'save' wear & tear on the Legacy. While that worked out reasonably well with the Fester, and pretty much with the GT as well, moving up to the GTI was a bit silly in a lot of ways, not least because I ended up never really liking it! Sadly, my business mileage overall isn't sufficient to qualify for a lease car now, or I might have seriously  considered another.
PG

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Sounds like your scheme has an element of subsidy, this one isn't and there aren't any restrictions - indeed, the higher the lease cost the more NI the Trust saves - my old boss got a quote on a Vantage (can't remember what the figure was though) but thought he might end up divorced if he went for it!

The bloke I mentioned above with the C1 does no business miles at all. The Trust are encouraging it for all staff although there is an issue with the new CARE pensions as the advice 3 years ago mentioned it would affect pension only if you had the lease in the best of the last three years, but now it impacts on your pension throughout your employment.


But if he is paying BIK tax, then the employer also pays class 1A NI on the BIK value at 13.8%. So the NI saving v salary reduction can't be that big?
cbeaks1

Had a sit in one today. It is pretty good interior wise (nice wheel, controls, aircon , stereo), and much better exterior wise in the flesh. Needs bigger wheels.

Lots of space for the money - I can (just, and not for a long journey) sit behind myself, which is impressive, and unlikely to be how they designed it.

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