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Racing Teatray

Focus RS

So it's very good. Even if it is Autocar, who go weak at the knees for any fast Ford as a rule. We knew that in advance.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-revi...-drives/2016-ford-focus-rs-review

Pity it has to look so completely awful. Like something dreamed up by a teenage employee of Halfords in Lowestoft. I know fast Fords have historically appealed to a more blue collar audience, but does it really have to look quite so McDonald's carpark? I find it a complete turn-off.

The original Focus RS was much more desirable-looking.
TreVoR

I think it needs to be in a dark colour - I think it would get away with black, but I agree, it doesn't blow my frock up either.
gooner

To be fair I think it looks a bit more subtle than the last one and is certainly helped in that respect by its five door body as well as the existence of the Civic Type R.
Martin

There's a review on Evo now as well, by Dan Prosser unfortunately.   It's a bit less gushing than the Autocar review (I take all their Ford and JLR reviews with a pinch of salt), but does sound great to drive.   I don't like the sound of the 'contrived engine noises' and I couldn't live with the looks either.

It is good value for money though, makes a lot more sense than spending £40k+ on a hatchback, but if I was buying a batch, my money would go on a Golf R or M135i.
Frank Bullitt

Agreed, it doesn't matter how good they are, fast Foci seem to be designed for the knuckle dragging mouth breathers.
Stuntman

I've posted in my elder brother/younger brother thread that I think it's just about on the right side of acceptable.  Magnetic (dark metallic grey), black forged alloys, no privacy glass, the optional better recaros and the SYNC nav makes it £32,725 OTR and very good value IMO.
cbeaks1



Aside from the spoiler?
Andy C

Doesn't look too bad ^  , but it still doesn't do much for me

Golf R all the way
Michael

What are the chances of them doing an estate? That would be more appealing to me.
gooner

Michael wrote:
What are the chances of them doing an estate? That would be more appealing to me.


The Golf R and Leon Cupra come as load luggers so you never know.
cbeaks1

Nothing I am aware of.
Twelfth Monkey

I think that the demographics must have changed - either the Burberry Ape has more money than he used to or older versions of him haven't moderated their taste with age.

I think one of the great mysteries of the automotive world is why Audi doesn't try to lure Ford's chassis people away en masse.
Chip Butty

I would love one and I think it looks fantastic. Given how sophisticated the chassis and awd system appears to be, it is unbelievable value for money.

I love the fact it has a proper manual gearbox too.
Bob Sacamano

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Agreed, it doesn't matter how good they are, fast Foci seem to be designed for the knuckle dragging mouth breathers.


Really? More stereotypes?
Humphrey The Pug

Looks amazing value when you consider the spec vs what the RS Megane used to cost; it has come down.

Renault have got to come out with something pretty amazing with the next Megane RS to compete with the Focus.

As for the styling, I find it quite inoffensive when compared to the previous RS and the awful Civic.
Roadsterstu

I think, rather like the last RS, they should be in bright, lurid colours. I'd rather see it in lime green than black. Again, like the last RS, I don't think I could actually own one but I like the car all the same whenever I see one.

EDIT: Racing, what's wrong with Lowestoft? I've never been. Should I avoid it at all costs?
JohnC

It looks much more subtle in design than the last RS (apart from the rear spoiler).

I'm not sure the picture of the black on does the car justice. I think my thoughts are more those of respect than desire but I don't think 350hp, 4wd and those seats are going to be available anywhere else for anything like that price. Great value and well done Ford.

There was a day I would have had one but mot anymore I'm afraid - too far entrenched into middle age!
Stuntman

The colour palette doesn't give buyers much choice.  I don't like the Nitrous Blue, it's too light.  The car would look much better in the traditional Ford RS blue.

Fix this and I'm definitely with Peet.
Eff One

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Agreed, it doesn't matter how good they are, fast Foci seem to be designed for the knuckle dragging mouth breathers.


It just looks like a mildly steroidal 5-door hatch to me. Far more understated than the Civic or previous RS.

It would probably be too stiff for me - as I've said elsewhere, my Fiesta ST is right on the limit - but I think it looks quite smart and there's no denying its value for money.
PhilD

Stuntman wrote:
The colour palette doesn't give buyers much choice.  I don't like the Nitrous Blue, it's too light.  The car would look much better in the traditional Ford RS blue.

Fix this and I'm definitely with Peet.


is this not available then?


Roadsterstu

I think that was a promotional colour only, wasn't it?
PhilD

Roadsterstu wrote:
I think that was a promotional colour only, wasn't it?


when did that become a thing?!
Roadsterstu

Stuntman wrote:
The colour palette doesn't give buyers much choice.  I don't like the Nitrous Blue, it's too light.  The car would look much better in the traditional Ford RS blue.

Fix this and I'm definitely with Peet.


It's very limited and very dark. Nitrous is the kind of colour it should be. I'm not so keen on the black. Magnetic is nice but still too dark.
Chip Butty

I think it would look the Yeti's plums in silver and I'd have those forged wheels if they were painted rock metallic and not gloss black.
Roadsterstu

Chip Butty wrote:
I think it would look the Yeti's plums in silver and I'd have those forged wheels if they were painted rock metallic and not gloss black.


Indeed.
Twelfth Monkey

Roadsterstu wrote:
I think, rather like the last RS, they should be in bright, lurid colours. I'd rather see it in lime green than black. Again, like the last RS, I don't think I could actually own one but I like the car all the same whenever I see one.

EDIT: Racing, what's wrong with Lowestoft? I've never been. Should I avoid it at all costs?


You know what people had to say about Luton?  I suspect that's a veritable paradise on Earth in comparison.  We 'won' a free weekend there about fifteen years ago and can confidently assert that I'll never set foot there again.
Bob Sacamano

PhilD wrote:
Roadsterstu wrote:
I think that was a promotional colour only, wasn't it?


when did that become a thing?!


About 20 years ago. Manufacturers started producing early models of new cars in striking colours as a way of getting them to stand out and attract attention when they first hit the roads. The colours may be "Marmite" but they stop the new model getting lost in the clutter on the roads.
PhilD

Bob Sacamano wrote:
PhilD wrote:
Roadsterstu wrote:
I think that was a promotional colour only, wasn't it?


when did that become a thing?!


About 20 years ago. Manufacturers started producing early models of new cars in striking colours as a way of getting them to stand out and attract attention when they first hit the roads. The colours may be "Marmite" but they stop the new model getting lost in the clutter on the roads.


That makes some sense, though it would still work even if that colour was offered longer term. So is the darker blue available for the first customers? (and how exactly does it stand out?   )
Tim

I don't mind the styling really - if you want ultra subtle you can choose a Golf R, this is a little bit more obvious but not OTT.

It's certainly no worse than, say, BMWs current efforts with its mildly 'sporty' cars and their myriad of odd lines and bits of plastic jutting into the airflow (especially around the front bumper/spoiler).
PhilD

Tim wrote:
I don't mind the styling really - if you want ultra subtle you can choose a Golf R, this is a little bit more obvious but not OTT.

It's certainly no worse than, say, BMWs current efforts with its mildly 'sporty' cars and their myriad of odd lines and bits of plastic jutting into the airflow (especially around the front bumper/spoiler).


Not to mention this! I detect a whiff of snobbery...

Tim

I'd forgotten those.
They're awful, even the 'standard' non-AMG ones.
Martin

That A45 is awful, but at least you can have it without the worst bodywork additions, for less money too.
Tim

You can but on the few that I've seen the owner has chosen the expensive option.

Really Merc should offer a sticker set that says something like "This small hatch has 325BHP and cost me £50k" just so the owners can really hammer home to the rest of us that it's not the base model  
PG

For me, stupidly big rear spoiler are right up there with privacy glass as something that adds nothing to the car yet makes it look utterly chavved.

I also suspect that they are the ultimate useless add-on. OK, it might help you at 140mph at the track day, but on the M6, it just looks silly.
PG

Bob Sacamano wrote:
PhilD wrote:
Roadsterstu wrote:
I think that was a promotional colour only, wasn't it?


when did that become a thing?!


About 20 years ago. Manufacturers started producing early models of new cars in striking colours as a way of getting them to stand out and attract attention when they first hit the roads. The colours may be "Marmite" but they stop the new model getting lost in the clutter on the roads.


I forget which version, but one of the Mondeos had a bright green launch version. Which was quietly dropped after a few months.
TreVoR

They did that with the Corsa - a lot of the original Corsa Bs were in Rainbow Blue which was that puke inducing solid purple.
Racing Teatray

PhilD wrote:
Not to mention this! I detect a whiff of snobbery...



At no point did I say I liked that either. It's horrible. Worse than the Ford. But you can buy it without the garish bits, at which point it's bloody hard to tell from a normal sport-spec A-class. I'm not aware that's true for the Focus.

And I think 12th has answered the Lowestoft query. It's a complete dive of a place. I picked it firstly because I come from Suffolk and it's better to be rude about where you come from and know rather than somewhere someone else comes from and which perhaps you don't know. I have been to Halfords in Lowestoft. I have seen what is parked outside with mine own eyes. And secondly because East Angular (as a certain Jade Goody once called it) in general is quite renowned for a yoof with dubious taste in modded hatchbacks. When I was younger, the baseball cap backwards brigade in Novas were known as "NFNs". It stands for "Normal for Norfolk"...
Grampa

Re: Focus RS

Racing Teatray wrote:
So it's very good. Even if it is Autocar, who go weak at the knees for any fast Ford as a rule. We knew that in advance.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-revi...-drives/2016-ford-focus-rs-review

Pity it has to look so completely awful. Like something dreamed up by a teenage employee of Halfords in Lowestoft. I know fast Fords have historically appealed to a more blue collar audience, but does it really have to look quite so McDonald's carpark? I find it a complete turn-off.

The original Focus RS was much more desirable-looking.


I feel exactly the same about the looks - no matter how well it drives I wouldn't want to drive a car that it looks like a 14 year old's impression of how they want their first car to look. Those kind of bodywork additions are totally at odds with a 5 door hatchback too.

I wonder if you could find someone with a pre-facelift ordinary model (which is a nice looking car and to me the best looking Focus) who would swap all the bits over?

Tim wrote:
It's certainly no worse than, say, BMWs current efforts with its mildly 'sporty' cars and their myriad of odd lines and bits of plastic jutting into the airflow (especially around the front bumper/spoiler).


Couldn't live with one of those either, or a Mercedes A class that reminds me of a low budget 70's 'custom' - Richard Grant Accessories are alive and kicking!
Roadsterstu

Racing Teatray wrote:
And I think 12th has answered the Lowestoft query. It's a complete dive of a place. I picked it firstly because I come from Suffolk and it's better to be rude about where you come from and know rather than somewhere someone else comes from and which perhaps you don't know. I have been to Halfords in Lowestoft. I have seen what is parked outside with mine own eyes. And secondly because East Angular (as a certain Jade Goody once called it) in general is quite renowned for a yoof with dubious taste in modded hatchbacks. When I was younger, the baseball cap backwards brigade in Novas were known as "NFNs". It stands for "Normal for Norfolk"...


  I have a good friend who originates from Lowestoft (she has not lived there for many years, as a saving grace) so I was seeking some "ammunition"!
PG

And lest anybody would think that my moonboots might make exceptions, this also to me has always looked wrong and is, basically, an outrage on a Jaaaag -




Whereas this is beyond cool -


Frank Bullitt

Roadsterstu wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:
And I think 12th has answered the Lowestoft query. It's a complete dive of a place. I picked it firstly because I come from Suffolk and it's better to be rude about where you come from and know rather than somewhere someone else comes from and which perhaps you don't know. I have been to Halfords in Lowestoft. I have seen what is parked outside with mine own eyes. And secondly because East Angular (as a certain Jade Goody once called it) in general is quite renowned for a yoof with dubious taste in modded hatchbacks. When I was younger, the baseball cap backwards brigade in Novas were known as "NFNs". It stands for "Normal for Norfolk"...


  I have a good friend who originates from Lowestoft (she has not lived there for many years, as a saving grace) so I was seeking some "ammunition"!


Her only saving grace is that she's not from Yarmouth...
PhilD

PG wrote:
And lest anybody would think that my moonboots might make exceptions, this also to me has always looked wrong and is, basically, an outrage on a Jaaaag -




that car did cross my mind while I was ruminating on this.
Martin

The standard spoiler on the XFR-S is just wrong, the low key one is essential, but the estate looks better still.

Not sure any version is beyond cool though!
Bob Sacamano

Any Jag is automatically cooler than the competition just by virtue of being a Jaaag!
Martin

Have you been reading Autocar again?  

Don't get me wrong, I do think it's quite cool, especially the estate.
Racing Teatray

Martin wrote:
The standard spoiler on the XFR-S is just wrong, the low key one is essential, but the estate looks better still.

Not sure any version is beyond cool though!


The wheels are pretty vile.
Tim

Racing Teatray wrote:
Martin wrote:
The standard spoiler on the XFR-S is just wrong, the low key one is essential, but the estate looks better still.

Not sure any version is beyond cool though!


The wheels are pretty vile.


+1.
PR

I used to harbour similar thoughts about the XFR-S's spoiler and wheels but when I drove one it blew my mind and I decided they suited the car's outrageous character very well indeed.
gooner

PR wrote:
I used to harbour similar thoughts about the XFR-S's spoiler and wheels but when I drove one it blew my mind and I decided they suited the car's outrageous character very well indeed.


Anyone would think you worked for them  
Thomas Magman

cbeaks1 wrote:


Aside from the spoiler?


If I were to buy one, I'd probably choose this colour.

Probably prefer an Escort Cosworth without the wing in dark blue

Not sure I need 4wd capability for my driving fun/commuting though

Wouldn't mind getting a test drive in one though - reports seem to suggest it drives pretty well, then again, not many RS' since the S2 RST, Fiesta RST have been below par
Chris M Wanted a V-10

That photo ^ appears to show a comically high ride height
PG

Racing Teatray wrote:
Martin wrote:
The standard spoiler on the XFR-S is just wrong, the low key one is essential, but the estate looks better still.

Not sure any version is beyond cool though!


The wheels are pretty vile.


Agreed as well.
Roadsterstu

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Roadsterstu wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:
And I think 12th has answered the Lowestoft query. It's a complete dive of a place. I picked it firstly because I come from Suffolk and it's better to be rude about where you come from and know rather than somewhere someone else comes from and which perhaps you don't know. I have been to Halfords in Lowestoft. I have seen what is parked outside with mine own eyes. And secondly because East Angular (as a certain Jade Goody once called it) in general is quite renowned for a yoof with dubious taste in modded hatchbacks. When I was younger, the baseball cap backwards brigade in Novas were known as "NFNs". It stands for "Normal for Norfolk"...


  I have a good friend who originates from Lowestoft (she has not lived there for many years, as a saving grace) so I was seeking some "ammunition"!


Her only saving grace is that she's not from Yarmouth...


I'm guessing it's a very fine line...
Alf McQueef

Re: Focus RS

Racing Teatray wrote:
So it's very good. Even if it is Autocar, who go weak at the knees for any fast Ford as a rule. We knew that in advance.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-revi...-drives/2016-ford-focus-rs-review

Pity it has to look so completely awful. Like something dreamed up by a teenage employee of Halfords in Lowestoft. I know fast Fords have historically appealed to a more blue collar audience, but does it really have to look quite so McDonald's carpark? I find it a complete turn-off.

The original Focus RS was much more desirable-looking.


Agree with all of that. I like the Focus ST for being quite subtle, in some colours. The Focus RS is definitely a halo model not a profit generator - it is not for no reason that most of the people actually able to afford such a thing are more likely to end up in a n M135i, Golf R, or similar...
Nice Guy Eddie

I do rather like it I must say and that's coming from a fuddy  Duddy Golf Gti lover.
cbeaks1

We have a LHD Nitrous Blue RS in Sheffield this week. Went to have a look. Paint is lovely in the flesh, but I think I would choose Magnetic, black or Stealth Grey for subtlety. It isn't particularly loud and shouty though. The lightweight 19" black wheels and tracky tyres are lovely, as are the recaro buckets. Surprisingly I fit pretty well at 135kg ish.

Aside from the seats an blue stitching the interior is as per the ST. Car seat would be no issue so in the equation to resolve the Kuga come July, though New Edge may be favourite.
Chip Butty

I've had a snuffty at the Edge on the basis that at some point it will appear on the company car list and therefore might make a decent Mondeo replacement . However, the " range " of power trains is piss poor - will the UK get offered proper engines (i.e - Ecoboost 6 pots), or at least a diesel with respectable amounts of torque and horsepower ?
Roadsterstu

Chip Butty wrote:
I've had a snuffty at the Edge on the basis that at some point it will appear on the company car list and therefore might make a decent Mondeo replacement . However, the " range " of power trains is piss poor - will the UK get offered proper engines (i.e - Ecoboost 6 pots), or at least a diesel with respectable amounts of torque and horsepower ?


I think we know the answer to that.
Nice Guy Eddie

I had to google what an Edge was. Having read a few reviews I'm finding the RS pulling me in. How long's the waiting list?
Roadsterstu

Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
I'm finding the RS pulling me in. How long's the waiting list?


I just fell off my chair.
cbeaks1

210ps d auto is looking like the most power you will get I. An edge.

Ref RS I will check current waits. I reckon if you call around a few you might find a cancelled order.
PG

cbeaks1 wrote:
210ps d auto is looking like the most power you will get I. An edge.


Seems that apart from the obvious exceptions - RS, Mustang, GT and the few hybrids starting to appear - Ford have followed Volvo down the anything you want as long as it is a maximum of four pot.
simonp

The looks aren't great, but the colour choices are the most disappointing aspect.
PG

Roadsterstu wrote:
Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
I'm finding the RS pulling me in. How long's the waiting list?


I just fell off my chair.


Are you coming out Eddie? Acknowledging your inner chav that's been kept hidden for years? How brave.  
Nice Guy Eddie

You'll see me at Prescott this year sporting my shell suit and cap at a jaunty angle.

The M2 is a long way off and could be as far as 18months away so I'm toying with what to do. First thoughts are an E92 M3 but reading reports on the RS it sounds an absolute blast. I'm not really fast ford but I could be persuaded
Martin

Don't get a shell suit, it's a Ford Racing jacket and matching baseball cap that's required these days.
Big Blue

Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
. First thoughts are an E92 M3


Get one. My rationale is that the engine will almost certainly never be seen again and they are absolutely destined to be collectible in Coupé with Competition Pack and extended leather form; allied to the fact that the new M4 variant looks frankly ludicrous.
Racing Teatray

Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
I had to google what an Edge was.


Likewise.
Racing Teatray

Big Blue wrote:
Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
. First thoughts are an E92 M3


Get one. My rationale is that the engine will almost certainly never be seen again and they are absolutely destined to be collectible in Coupé with Competition Pack and extended leather form; allied to the fact that the new M4 variant looks frankly ludicrous.


I'm on the fence here. I drove an E92 M3 a couple of years ago (thoughts here: http://themotor.myfastforum.org/about15351.html) and I wasn't particularly blown away.

I think it was the fact that the number of times that you'd really be able to play with the V8 so as to access the point at which the car comes alive were quite limited. And up until that point, the 6-cylinder alternatives might be preferable on a day-to-day basis.

But they do appeal. Whisper it but I'd probably buy a convertible. Let's face it, I'm rarely if ever going to do the sort of driving where I am going to much notice the difference in stiffness and weight. And you can hear the engine more.
Big Blue

No need to whisper, I agree on the convertible: I think the boot-lid detail and rear end look better, but the back seats and boot space are severely compromised.

I agree on the not-using-performance stuff, but then I could say that about W2.0's 323i! I do get the chance to thrash a car up the captains drive at Woodcote once a month if I wish and then boot same car round the back of the downs on roads I grew up driving to get back to the clubhouse again, so I can always use that as a justification
Martin

Racing Teatray wrote:
I'm on the fence here. I drove an E92 M3 a couple of years ago (thoughts here: http://themotor.myfastforum.org/about15351.html) and I wasn't particularly blown away.

I think it was the fact that the number of times that you'd really be able to play with the V8 so as to access the point at which the car comes alive were quite limited. And up until that point, the 6-cylinder alternatives might be preferable on a day-to-day basis.

But they do appeal. Whisper it but I'd probably buy a convertible. Let's face it, I'm rarely if ever going to do the sort of driving where I am going to much notice the difference in stiffness and weight. And you can hear the engine more.


I didn't go as far as driving one, but it was on the shortlist a couple of years ago and removed for pretty much the same reasons.  Also, it didn't really feel a whole lot more special inside than my 520d and we didn't need to compromise to get 4 seats.  That's maybe a little unfair, as the leather was nicer and it was just a test sit in a showroom, but it didn't do quite enough for me.

I'd have gone for the convertible too, for exactly the same reason.
Racing Teatray

There's a 59-plate convertible in Interlagos Blue (best colour) parked by my office most weekdays for the last few years (presumably since it was new). It wears the smaller standard grey 18" alloys and somehow looks all the better for it. It's DTC with a bamboo beige interior and, intriguing, blue disabled badges.
Thomas Magman

Roadsterstu wrote:
Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
I'm finding the RS pulling me in. How long's the waiting list?


I just fell off my chair.


Long enough that one just fetched 380k in the U.S.



http://www.motoringresearch.com/c...r-incredible-400000-at-us-auction
PG

Thomas Magman wrote:
Roadsterstu wrote:
Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
I'm finding the RS pulling me in. How long's the waiting list?


I just fell off my chair.


Long enough that one just fetched 380k in the U.S.



http://www.motoringresearch.com/c...r-incredible-400000-at-us-auction


All that QE money in the US has to go somewhere, but that is just bonkers.
Bob Sacamano

PG wrote:
Thomas Magman wrote:
Roadsterstu wrote:
Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
I'm finding the RS pulling me in. How long's the waiting list?


I just fell off my chair.


Long enough that one just fetched 380k in the U.S.



http://www.motoringresearch.com/c...r-incredible-400000-at-us-auction


All that QE money in the US has to go somewhere, but that is just bonkers.


Bought anonymously by Ford, lots of lovely publicity, and a donation to charity.
PhilD

Bob Sacamano wrote:
PG wrote:
Thomas Magman wrote:
Roadsterstu wrote:
Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
I'm finding the RS pulling me in. How long's the waiting list?


I just fell off my chair.


Long enough that one just fetched 380k in the U.S.



http://www.motoringresearch.com/c...r-incredible-400000-at-us-auction


All that QE money in the US has to go somewhere, but that is just bonkers.


Bought anonymously by Ford, lots of lovely publicity, and a donation to charity.


Indeed, no one really "bought" it, it's a donation for charity.
Twelfth Monkey

Ask Goodwin in this month's evo wasn't too fulsome in praise.  'One of te best high performance 4wd cars ever made', but of the drift mode:

'...bit of a gimmick but it does work.  You have to unsettle the car by using weight transfer or else you just wear the front tyres out.'

Of The brakes, they weren't allowed to do full laps at Valencia because: 'smoke billowing out of the front arches.' 'I reckon that a trackday in a Focus RS will cost you at leats a set of front tyres and probably a set of pads.  Possibly worse.'

He'd have a Clio 182 instead, apparently.

The looks kill it for me, but that's (of course) entirely subjective.
Thomas Magman

Autocar have got an RS/M2 twin review this coming Wednesday.
cbeaks1

Thomas Magman wrote:
Autocar have got an RS/M2 twin review this coming Wednesday.


Car have M2 v 718 v RS at the moment.
Thomas Magman

cbeaks1 wrote:
Thomas Magman wrote:
Autocar have got an RS/M2 twin review this coming Wednesday.


Car have M2 v 718 v RS at the moment.


Yeah, interesting verdict from Georg Kächer

Wonder if Autocar will lean the same
Thomas Magman

Thomas Magman wrote:
cbeaks1 wrote:
Thomas Magman wrote:
Autocar have got an RS/M2 twin review this coming Wednesday.


Car have M2 v 718 v RS at the moment.


Yeah, interesting verdict from Georg Kächer

Wonder if Autocar will lean the same


Autocar gave the Focus a 5-star rating and the M2 4.5 stars based on a twin test in Elan Valley, partly through the RS being cheaper.

Full road test of the RS next week
simonp

http://sniffpetrol.com/?p=12639
Tim

Thomas Magman wrote:
cbeaks1 wrote:
Thomas Magman wrote:
Autocar have got an RS/M2 twin review this coming Wednesday.


Car have M2 v 718 v RS at the moment.


Yeah, interesting verdict from Georg Kächer



I haven't got the latest issue but which of the German badged cars does Kacher prefer?
cbeaks1

A German made one, certainly
Tim

Thomas Magman

Tim wrote:
Thomas Magman wrote:
cbeaks1 wrote:
Thomas Magman wrote:
Autocar have got an RS/M2 twin review this coming Wednesday.


Car have M2 v 718 v RS at the moment.


Yeah, interesting verdict from Georg Kächer



I haven't got the latest issue but which of the German badged cars does Kacher prefer?







It's been a fair old while since an RS beat an entry level Porsche turbo and the baby M-car.......

Saw the local tuner's new one the other evening - slow compared to his main fare though
cbeaks1

Autocar gave the Focus the win too but a lot of that was the price difference. Loved the M2 too.
Thomas Magman

cbeaks1 wrote:
Autocar gave the Focus the win too but a lot of that was the price difference. Loved the M2 too.


Im sure you know but the road test is in the mag today. Shame it was very wet and it was on the optional Cups - would have been interesting to see what it might do. Maybe EVO will get a dry day
Grampa

Thomas Magman wrote:
Tim wrote:
Thomas Magman wrote:
cbeaks1 wrote:
Thomas Magman wrote:
Autocar have got an RS/M2 twin review this coming Wednesday.


Car have M2 v 718 v RS at the moment.


Yeah, interesting verdict from Georg Kächer



I haven't got the latest issue but which of the German badged cars does Kacher prefer?







I'm not sure the Focus can be classed as a Q car - with all the body kit and gaping intakes, it seems to me to be quite a statement of intent.

If I were ever to get one, I'd want to swap the front for one from the earlier 'non-Aston grille' cooking models - that could make a fantastic Q car!
Chip Butty

The autocar road test results are bizarre, but confirm the RS does not put in the figures the engine stats would suggest are achievable

The wrong tyres/wet conditions excuse explains the deviation to 60 (at a still reasonable 5.3 seconds), but the 60 to 100 time is way off the pace. 8.6 seconds is what the ST did when tested by Autocar in 2013.

If the tyres are still to blame above 60mph (on a 4wd car) then those tyres are not fit for purpose as a road tyre in the UK.

Maybe I am being too critical as I remember the M235I was figured in the damp and that put in similarly poor figures to 60 and to 100mph.

Car and Driver got 4.6 and 12.2, which again is disappointing as the same magazine got 5.1 and 11.8 out of a manual Golf R. That's a 1 second difference between 60 and 100 mph (which is a relatively large gap all things considered)
Twelfth Monkey

Tyres shouldn't make any difference above 60 (or less), as you say.  To be honest, it must be the tyre that are hurting the 0-60 by that much, as unless you are talking silly torque figures, a decent 4wd system is barely affected by wet conditions off the line (unless you're talking torrential conditions.)

Is it a manual?  I thought so but can't remember.  Might be that a shedload of skill is required to get the best off the line as is sometimes the case.
Thomas Magman

Chip Butty wrote:
The autocar road test results are bizarre, but confirm the RS does not put in the figures the engine stats would suggest are achievable

The wrong tyres/wet conditions excuse explains the deviation to 60 (at a still reasonable 5.3 seconds), but the 60 to 100 time is way off the pace. 8.6 seconds is what the ST did when tested by Autocar in 2013.

If the tyres are still to blame above 60mph (on a 4wd car) then those tyres are not fit for purpose as a road tyre in the UK.

Maybe I am being too critical as I remember the M235I was figured in the damp and that put in similarly poor figures to 60 and to 100mph.

Car and Driver got 4.6 and 12.2, which again is disappointing as the same magazine got 5.1 and 11.8 out of a manual Golf R. That's a 1 second difference between 60 and 100 mph (which is a relatively large gap all things considered)


I suspect the Ford press dept. gambled and sent it out on the track oriented Cup 2 tyres which are an option ( rather than the more road biased Super Sport standard fit ) in the hope of getting the best times if it had been dry. Depends how wet the track was really - maybe EVO will run some dry figures
Twelfth Monkey

Got it today, and it is puzzling, unless you take the view that Ford has been telling porkies.  I know Autocar tests two-up and with a full tank, which is why some spors cars don't show quite as quickly as their manufacturer's figures, but it's the same for everyone so comparisons are valid.

1.9s to 30 isn't too unrepresentative, I'd suggest.  It's the same as the Golf R, and just a tenth off mine (at 3 degrees and greasy - touch of moonboots there...).  If the tyres were a massive factor, 0-30 is where it would hit most.  Next ten mph (to forty) it loses 3 tenths, next ten another tenth, next another couple of tenths, and overall 1.9s to 100 (13.9 vs 12).  It loses 7 tenths from 90-100, so I reckon the major difference between the RS and the Golf R is manual vs DSG.  The former needs a shift between 60/70 and 90/100, and that's where a second of the 0-100 gap comes from.

The RS also loses a second between 30-70 (some of which will be gearchange), but also half a second from 30-70 in 4th.

Finally, the RS's 0-60 and 30-70 times are identical.  It's often suggested of performance cars that these figures should be broadly similar.  Mine's a fraction quicker from 30-70 than 0-60, as is the Golf.  If that's anything approximating to true for the RS, the 0-60 is a gnats quicker than might be expected.

Soounds like a great fun car, but noticeably slower than it should be/is claimed to be.
Nice Guy Eddie

And this is the reason Ferrari turn out an entire team of engineers for its road tests. No way Ford should have allowed an RS out on Cup 2's in anything other then bone dry conditions. Last time a drove a car on Cups was on a damp track and it was near impossible to get temperature into the tyres.
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Tim wrote:
Thomas Magman wrote:
cbeaks1 wrote:
Thomas Magman wrote:
Autocar have got an RS/M2 twin review this coming Wednesday.

Car have M2 v 718 v RS at the moment.

Yeah, interesting verdict from Georg Kächer

I haven't got the latest issue but which of the German badged cars does Kacher prefer?

There's not been much love for the 718 in any of the reviews so far. The single turbo/flat engine combo means lots of lag, apparently, and if you use the performance, it guzzles fuel.
Tim

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
Tim wrote:
Thomas Magman wrote:
cbeaks1 wrote:
Thomas Magman wrote:
Autocar have got an RS/M2 twin review this coming Wednesday.

Car have M2 v 718 v RS at the moment.

Yeah, interesting verdict from Georg Kächer

I haven't got the latest issue but which of the German badged cars does Kacher prefer?

There's not been much love for the 718 in any of the reviews so far. The single turbo/flat engine combo means lots of lag, apparently, and if you use the performance, it guzzles fuel.


Re the latter the CAR article mentions the economy dips noticeably above 125mph  

It's about time they were lukewarm about a Porsche really.
I've been suspicious at how much coverage Porsche have got in the months since VWs dieselgate  

As far as the Focus' performance is concerned how does it stack up against the M2 and new Boxster because I'm sure CAR think it's at least as fast as either of those across country.
Thomas Magman

Tim wrote:
Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:

There's not been much love for the 718 in any of the reviews so far. The single turbo/flat engine combo means lots of lag, apparently, and if you use the performance, it guzzles fuel.


Re the latter the CAR article mentions the economy dips noticeably above 125mph  

It's about time they were lukewarm about a Porsche really.
I've been suspicious at how much coverage Porsche have got in the months since VWs dieselgate  


As far as the Focus' performance is concerned how does it stack up against the M2 and new Boxster because I'm sure CAR think it's at least as fast as either of those across country.


It might make a change for EVO and encourage them to look at a few other marques
PG

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
There's not been much love for the 718 in any of the reviews so far. The single turbo/flat engine combo means lots of lag, apparently, and if you use the performance, it guzzles fuel.


That's not really a surprise. To my cynical eye, the 4-cylinder is all about CO2 tests (it does better, no surprise there) and profitability (must be less to build than a 6 cylinder and yet they are charging no less.....). It's clearly got sod all to do with driving pleasure or on the road enjoyment.    
Thomas Magman

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Got it today, and it is puzzling, unless you take the view that Ford has been telling porkies.  I know Autocar tests two-up and with a full tank, which is why some spors cars don't show quite as quickly as their manufacturer's figures, but it's the same for everyone so comparisons are valid.

1.9s to 30 isn't too unrepresentative, I'd suggest.  It's the same as the Golf R, and just a tenth off mine (at 3 degrees and greasy - touch of moonboots there...).  If the tyres were a massive factor, 0-30 is where it would hit most.  Next ten mph (to forty) it loses 3 tenths, next ten another tenth, next another couple of tenths, and overall 1.9s to 100 (13.9 vs 12).  It loses 7 tenths from 90-100, so I reckon the major difference between the RS and the Golf R is manual vs DSG.  The former needs a shift between 60/70 and 90/100, and that's where a second of the 0-100 gap comes from.

The RS also loses a second between 30-70 (some of which will be gearchange), but also half a second from 30-70 in 4th.

Finally, the RS's 0-60 and 30-70 times are identical.  It's often suggested of performance cars that these figures should be broadly similar.  Mine's a fraction quicker from 30-70 than 0-60, as is the Golf.  If that's anything approximating to true for the RS, the 0-60 is a gnats quicker than might be expected.

Soounds like a great fun car, but noticeably slower than it should be/is claimed to be.


There's a straight drag in the link below and the Focus pilot reckons he can't match the gear shifts in the DSG cars - it's a one horse result with the Merc in there

http://www.topgear.com/car-news/h...s-rs-vs-vw-golf-r-vs-merc-a45-amg
JohnC

Those kind of differences in performance are only for bragging rights: on a real road, in the real world, they are all plenty fast enough and I doubt you would notice any difference between them in terms of shove in the back. There are probably differences in the way the power is put down or in the way it can be accessed but in overtaking ability or pull out of corners, I would say it was a real world draw. You just pick the one you like best or the one that offers the best value which shuffles the pack a bit more than the straight drag race.

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