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Martin

Flipping Porsches

There are an unbelievable 18 Cayman GT4's for sale on the Approved Porsche website, compare that to the GTS, only 6 available.   There are 13 x GT3 and 6 x GT3 RS as well.

I think that anyone who sells within a few months of collection shouldn't be allowed to get on the list for the next GT model, but the dealerships will make a good profit from selling them twice in a short period, so that isn't going to happen.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

It's increased to a barely-less-believable 19 now.  There's a lurid green one on there at the moment amongst the blues and yellows and whites.....

All are currently "POA" and "mileage on application"
JohnC

At over 100,000 and some at 110K, that really is taking the p*ss.
The previous owners have probably trousered about 15K and the dealers will do the same!
Big Blue

Vauxhall is having the same issue with the COTY Astra.....

No?

These are still only Porsches. People are idiots. A 996 GT2, a "must-have" 911 can be had for 115k. There are some up for sale for 150k being touted as "great investments": errrrrr right.... Now there is a 991 GT3 RS and they're 270k and when the next gen one comes out they will be 150k. I don't think that's the kind of investing one should be involved in.
Nice Guy Eddie

A good friend of mine is a serial Porsche buyer. He does have a 991 GT3 RS and a GT4 and has no intention of flipping them. He also has a LOT in on a 991 R. Now if he sold the GT3 and GT4 he'd probably be 150k up but offset that with the depreciation on a Panamera and Cayenne its not quite such a good deal.

A lot of RS's only went to 918 customers and people like that have a habit of switching cars like clothes so that might account for some of the allocation.
gonnabuildabuggy

I'm sure you'll always make money flipping the brand new ones, second hand though are getting to the point where the market might turn down. I'm sure a lot of the last 12 months sales have been purely as investments.
JohnC

Big Blue wrote:

These are still only Porsches. People are idiots. A 996 GT2, a "must-have" 911 can be had for 115k. There are some up for sale for 150k being touted as "great investments": errrrrr right.... Now there is a 991 GT3 RS and they're 270k and when the next gen one comes out they will be 150k. I don't think that's the kind of investing one should be involved in.


I had a client who bought a 996 GT2 new for 95K from memory. He kept it in a heated garage and after 5 or 6 years it had only done about 1500 summer miles but was only worth about 65/70K.

He sold everything and went to live in Switzerland and vowed never to buy another car for any purpose other than to drive or race it.
Chip Butty

I don't understand why Porsche have so many special variants and editions - they don't benefit directly from the appreciation and re-selling.

If these things are as good as Queeferati say they are, then I would be selling them for a higher list price and in greater numbers.

Unless :

1) The high demand is driven by " investors " - so if you didn't limit numbers, they wouldn't sell more than they do when they limit the numbers.

or

2) There is a spreadsheet somewhere in Porsche centrum which shows that the halo effect and extra column inches of journo jizz are worth millions in brand equity and marketing spend.

Also - where does 911 R sit in the hierarchy ? Is that better than GT3 RS ? - in which case shouldn't it be called GT3 RSS or RSR or RSRS or RS cubed or something like that ?

They should just call it the mega arse and be done with it.
PhilD

Chip Butty wrote:
I don't understand why Porsche have so many special variants and editions - they don't benefit directly from the appreciation and re-selling.


Vanilla version sells X units regardless

Special editions generate Y extra sales for each variant- the more variants the more sales.

Isn't it?
gonnabuildabuggy

JohnC wrote:

I had a client who bought a 996 GT2 new for 95K from memory. He kept it in a heated garage and after 5 or 6 years it had only done about 1500 summer miles but was only worth about 65/70K.

He sold everything and went to live in Switzerland and vowed never to buy another car for any purpose other than to drive or race it.


That's a big reaction to 5% depreciation per annum on a car, I hate to think where he'd have moved to had he bought a Kia?
Chip Butty

I am not questioning the validity of doing incremental variants, but questioning why do all these extra variants but in extremely small numbers that appears to leave the " market " unsatisfied.

Postulations 1 and 2 are posed as my initial thoughts.
gonnabuildabuggy

Chip Butty wrote:
I am not questioning the validity of doing incremental variants, but questioning why do all these extra variants but in extremely small numbers that appears to leave the " market " unsatisfied.

Postulations 1 and 2 are posed as my initial thoughts.


I think a lot is becoming about the investment potential (based upon recent uplifts on older specials).

I suspect the "last fool" principle will operate as it does in most markets where people seek returns from asset appreciation only.

On that topics what's my BRG Eunos V Special worth?
JohnC

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
JohnC wrote:

I had a client who bought a 996 GT2 new for 95K from memory. He kept it in a heated garage and after 5 or 6 years it had only done about 1500 summer miles but was only worth about 65/70K.

He sold everything and went to live in Switzerland and vowed never to buy another car for any purpose other than to drive or race it.


That's a big reaction to 5% depreciation per annum on a car, I hate to think where he'd have moved to had he bought a Kia?


His reaction was more that he bought the car as an appreciating investment and it did the opposite. He had a few very interesting cars previously including an original RS but he had always sold them before their value had increased appreciably, if at all (The RS always irritated him since the guy he sold it to made 30K or 40K profit on it and it kept appreciating after that). The GT2 was bought solely on the basis that it would appreciate and it didn't.

The money wasn't the issue (being worth many millions), it was more the principle of the whole thing.
PhilD

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:


I suspect the "last fool" principle will operate as it does in most markets where people seek returns from asset appreciation only.



it does feel like a game of pass the parcel crossed with a ponzi scheme.
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Chip Butty wrote:
1) The high demand is driven by " investors " - so if you didn't limit numbers, they wouldn't sell more than they do when they limit the numbers.

I've often wondered about that. If Porsche launched a special model, and said "we'll sell as many as we get orders for", whether the final production figure would be higher, lower or the same as when it's artificially limited.
Tim

I think the Porsche value appreciation thing has only really happened since the 997 GT RS 4.0 (is that right?) appeared.
Since then they've been making up for lost time.

Ferraris are the same - they used to depreciate like a stone but I'd say that in the last 3 or 4 years that's stopped, presumably on the back of the prices of their classics.

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