Ferrari to Quit F1?

Frank Bullitt · Ferrari to Quit F1?

Hmmm, seems like inginuity take a back seat to throwing cash at a problem.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8044860.stm

Time to throw toys out of pram, nannnnna nana naaaaaa na

TimR

Oh how will F1 cope without them, etc?

Well it seems to be doing quite well just now with them tooling around near the back and only being shown when they retire (Massa's effort at Barca notwithstanding).

It also seemed to cope pretty well between the early '80s (apart from one season where Alboreto challenged for the title) and the late '90s.

They shouldn't worry about the budget cap anyway as the pre-Schumacher era showed that even when they are spending more than anyone else they still can't challenge consistently.

DaveGibson

If you go back even further, they used not to turn up because the factory 'was on strike'. (I use the inverted commas because it usually meant the organiser wasn't prepared to accede to Ferrari's demand for appearance money.)

Big TC

I seem to remember a period of time decades ago where Ferrari threatened to quit F1 and put the 'might of their racing heritage' into the Indy Car series in the USA (or whatever it was called then). They even went so far as to build a mock-up of the car which they would enter.... Came to nowt, as this no doubt will.

Toyota have made exactly the same threat, btw. But with them, I can see them following through with it, as it'll give the Japanese a way of saving face (as it looks like another winless season for them)

Richard (ex-MB_insider)

The current situation is a bit more than a petulant strop by Ferrari.

To date Ferrari, Toyota, Red Bull and Toro Rosso have all publically stated that they will not enter F1 in 2010 due to the budget cap the FIA has imposed.

BMW, McLaren and Renault have not publically stated their intentions (yet) but are known to support Ferrari and the others.

The only teams expected to enter next year are Williams, Brawn and Force India - not because they want to but because they are privateers and cannot survive without confirmation that they are entered into a series.

There is an article on Autosport this week speculating that Ferrari, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes (on behalf of McLaren), Renault and Red Bull (plus Toro Rosso) will buy A1GP. The A1GP cars will be ditched in 2010 and each team will run 3 cars to make up a 21 car grid. By buying A1GP the breakaway teams have a ready made series that is already mandated by the FIA, has circuit and TV contracts in place etc.

Nice Guy Eddie

This seems like a really daft plan. Why would F1 want two tiers of championship. Its the pinnacle of motorsport not the BTCC. I can understnad why Ferrari aren't happy and I think its a little more complex then throwing their toys out of the pram. Do we not remember the 80's and early 90's with the 36 car grids where half the teams struggled to even get their cars to do a lap, I'm not really looking forward to going back to that with teams like Rial, Andrea Moda and Pacific.

the other ct

Ferrari aren't happy because now the FIA (Max) have put McLaren in their place it's their turn.

It is a battle of wills that Ferrari will probably win because they have the current teams on their side (ie no one wants a 2 tier system) and Bernie who could lose £bns.

There will be some solution and probably both sides will claim victory.

Richard (ex-MB_insider)

Renault has now confirmed that they will withdraw unless the £40m budget cap is dropped.

Big Blue

I think what the manufacturers are saying in a roundabout way is that F1 is about a set of rules that constrains the car they can build and race. How they get to that end is their business: if any team feels they can build a winning car for £1M a season rest assured they will and if they need to spend £100M they'll do that, too.

I'd play the safety card: cost cutting may compromise driver safety etc etc.

If we're talking budget capping, how about some of these GP circuits are assessed for their viability? 100,000 people want to be in Monza/Milan/Como for a weekend. They don't want to be in some of the newer locations and empty grandstands don't look good on TV. If it's OK for the venues to be funded by grants etc. what's wrong with the teams being able to splash out?

More spurious bollocks to keep F1 in the papers between races and Ferrari are playing the PR game because they're definitely out of the media eye at present.

the other ct

Not looking good.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75442

FIA now have the upper hand.

Twelfth Monkey

Despite years watching F1, and an office littered with F1 pictures and a few bits of signed stuff, a part of me wants the whole thing to fall apart.

Racing

It would have a certain poetic feel to it.

I'm with those who feel the budget cap is utter lunacy. There are plenty of other forms of motorsport for those on more constrained budgets. F1 is what F1 is, and that includes being bloody expensive. No one is forced to take part and capping budget to £40m per team is hardly opening it up as a sport for the masses. It would create a two-tier system and that would be pants.

Moseley obviously needs to go off for some more S&M sessions to beat some sense into him.

Mike Amos · About time Ferrari realised,

just how good F1 is for them. In order to make for ballanced F1 politics, a team like Ferrari with it's percieved veto on everything must go.

Same with any team that thinks the 'sport' should revolve around thier needs so if Toyota need the excuse to leg it out of F1 too, goodbye.

New teams will appear and no doubt buy up some of the technology/staff etc so I see the cap as a good thing for the future of the sport. As for the business of F1, that is another story and one that could also do with change. Why ffs, should any team get more money out of the telly rights fund?

LAst point, with the gnome being rather frailer than I have seen him before, how long 'till he removes himself from the situation too? Will we get a more sympathetic deal for circuits wanting to host gp's?

Racing

Well, with respect, I think you are wrong.

I'm not defending Ferrari et al. I'm simply pointing out that the budget cap is lunacy.

I don't see anyone proposing to cap football team expenditure and allowing relaxed rules to poorer teams (ie a normal red card offence being dumbed down to a yellow card offence for weaker teams).

Which is because it's utter nonsense.

Mike Amos

As far as the cap goes, there is a need to sort out a) a realistic cap and b) a method of governence that does not destroy a teams ability to run its affairs.

The most recent I heard was that there was a potential for a $55m cap to be negotiated. Need to see just what the future brings though. Racings point on level playing field (Pardon the pun) is taken and noted. Thing is, with all the money Ferrari and McLaren have, how come they are so off the pace? Surely that is not all down to carryiong the KERS system along for the ride.

On a purely Ferrari note, they have always been able to test their way out of a performance defecit, and now none of them can so parhaps there is enough of a 'cap' there? Not sure exactly but on what I have seen so far the 'cap's a good 'un.

Mike Amos

For some reason I am unable to complete post's.

As far as the cap start date goes, I can see the merit of allowing it to be phased in to reduce the effect of reduncecies. On a purely human note, that has to be at least considered.

canadian bacon

Chris M Wants a V-10

I couldn't see a French court giving vistory to an Italian organisation in preference to a French one.
However, I go believe that Ferrari have some good points, not in the least the FIA changing the playing field significantly without much warning.
And what other sport's ruling body has introduced financial measures as part of the rules? None that I can think of

the other ct

I’m not a Ferrari fan, but if they and other manufactures plus Red Bull go then we could very well return to this: http://www.f1rejects.com/teams/index.html

Crap field filling teams and a few that don’t even ever qualify.

Yes F1 now costs a massive amount of money but the early 90’s that Eddie Jordan and Flav been eulogising about at the last gps didn't exist.

TimR

While I'm not a great Ferrari fan the way this appears to be being introduced is pretty awful.

In addition I've heard no mention of the races themselves becoming cheaper to host for circuits.
Surely any raft of changes to reflect the global economic climate should include something about that?

DaveGibson

Making the races cheaper would reduce Bernie's income but stopping the teams from spending would allow him to reduce the amount he pays them. After all, they would no longer need the money.

Gooner

Am I being stupid in thinking that if they're intent on reducing costs, rather than having an optional £40m cap in return for more engineering freedom, thus creating a two tier system, couldn't they just put a mandatory cap in place and have no beneficial rules? Perhaps it's time the FIA actually thought of getting the teams together to reach a compromise instead of them throwing threats around in the press.

Mike Amos

We already have a two tier championship and have done for years, those who have buckets of dosh and those that do not. The fact that testing was finally reduced for ALL teams may be a clue the the red cars in particular being off the pace. McLarren have also had a lame start to the season.

If they can increase the number of teams able to go for wins and poduims interest in races will increase. This is especially important in globalising the sport rather than concentrating the business. The obvious bully tactics of the twosome had to be so to remove the impact of the ferrari veto, which is about time. How much of a veto does man utd have? Or chelsea? Or any other footie club?

It is past time that those with bigger boots were cut down to size and this is just one way to do it, the fact that redundancies will be quite severe and moseleys evident dissinterest in the impact of the redundencies is disgusting tho'.

Matt

Football clubs in the G14 group - now more than 14 teams - have quite a large sway over UEFA. Man United, Arsenal, Liverpool and I believe Chelsea are in it.

PhilD

Mike Amos

"Why?! As Racing says there are plenty of cheaper forms of Motorsport out there for teams who haven't got the big bucks (and for viewers to watch if they don't like F1) You've only got to look at the yachts moored in Monaco's harbour and the diamonds on Hamilton's helmet to see what F1 is all about."

Simply so that the FIA can go on about F1 being a sport and actually have some basis for saying it.

To shake up the long held status quo so that the field can be more able to take part, rather than a gradual erosion of teams so we end up like, let me see now, wtcc and btcc et al. Smaller and smaller grids will be the meat on the table if nothing is done. Would the viewing public like to see a repeat of the us gp of a few years ago? We like to consider ourselves as petrol heads or local variations of, should we view motorsport as the playground of the super rich alone?

PhilD

Status quo? You been watching this year Mike?!

Mike Amos

The status quo has been going for some time, this year is the potential to change all that. Added to the ability of the (Honda) Brawn team to get the best out of the new rules and we may get a formula worthy of the name. Usually top teams with loads of dosh test and update their cars much faster than poorer teams and with the current limits on testing that advantage has gone.

With limits on budget, there will be no (hopefully) poorer teams and a level field. It was always going to be that or go down the single engine/gearbox route which was mooted a few years ago.

What would folk rather have, caps or single supplier status?

I hope I never see limited racing again and continue to the point where all teams can be in a position to fight for points/wins.

Ferrari to Quit F1?

About time Ferrari realised,