| Archive for The Motor Forum talking cars since 2006 |
| Guitar Zero |
Fantasy horsepower islandAutocar's Monaro buying guide this week is a work of the purest fiction.Apart from the fact that it's simply a glorified advert for Monkfish tuning - (apparently everything on the car as standard is completely shit and you simply have to run down to Mr Fish with your trousers down and your wallet out). Some of the advice is just bizarre and they've obviously talked to an escaped mental patient who thinks he owns one. Mr fruit loop reckons his Monaro has 800 bhp - courtesy of a sports exhaust and six grand's worth of supercharger. Hmmm - let's think about that now - assuming it's a VXR and not a puny 5.7 CV8, he has managed to double the horsepower with a crank driven compressor and a slightly less restrictive exhaust !! Wow - what a bunch of numpties GM are - they didn't need to bother with the 640 bhp 7 litre version of the V8 that goes in that new £100 grand Corvette, they should have just called PJ Monkey fuck and asked to see his Monaro ! Surely you would expect a journalist of an enthusiast magazine to question these ludicrous statements instead of lapping it up like a truffle snuffling arse piglet ? and what was all that bollocks about needing extra stength sidewall tyres ? Is a Monaro like 3 tonnes or something ? what do they do to rear tyres that a 2 tonne 7 series or S class Merc doesn't ?? One thing I know for sure - the Monaro isn't the performance bargin it first seems. For starters, you need £11k for a decent 2004 example and then you need to blow another £3k at Mr spunkfish's for a sports pack, a road response kit, a rip shifter and some super turbo sidewall Monaro proof tyres. After all that, you've got a £14k, 390 bhp coupe that is starting to rot due to piss poor factory rust protection and that has an interior crafted in the finest shite-o-lium. Just spend your £14k on a 2002 M5 and leave the underperforming Aussie turd for the fantastists. |
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| Frank Bullitt |
Come on Peet, get of that fence - the splinters must be chaffing by now 
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| Stuntman |
How much for a VXR8 these days? They sound great, and look great in a musclecarish way.
Admittedly the interior is pure shitoleum (but at least it's slightly less rancid shitoleum than the Monaro) and it's not as fast as it looks and sounds - but it's a gigglesome device. I'd still take the E39 M5 every time though 
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| Gooner |
I found the prices were a bit off. They tried to imply that 5.7 cars were the early ones imported in 2004 and that to beware that some were hanging around so long they were on later plates. The 6.0 cars came in 2005 onwards. Yet one of the most expensive ones they show is an 06 plate 5.7 for £15k despite having higher mileage than the others. Surely that's shit value then?
I'm sure they're an absolute hoot to punt round a track but why they cost so much more than ZT V8's or Passat W8's of the same age is baffling. I wouldn't personally pay more for the Monaro. |
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| Roadsterstu |
Re: Fantasy horsepower island
Not happy with the article then? |
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| Matt |
Stuntman, there was an ad in the back a few week's ago where one company was offering new models of the VXR8 for about £28k.
Could it not be possible with a remap once the supercharger is on the car to get 800bhp? It makes no reference to how long it can go without a service. |
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| TimR |
I noticed a black nearly new 4 door at my local VX dealer for 27k. | ||||
| Guitar Zero |
The Bathurst is supercharged and allegedly makes 550 bhp
But that tub of shit still can't do the ton in under 10 seconds. |
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| GonnaBreakABuggy |
"Ripshifter" honestly brought out tears of laughter.
Ah, so that'll be £10-worth of metal to shorten the gearshift then? |
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| Blarno |
I'm sure a different sized pulley on the supercharger would help with gettting close to 800 Bhp.... |
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| Soulless |
I would hardly say that it under performs. Monkfish will take it up to 1000bhp at 4000rpm and 950lb/ft at 6500rpm, and a very useful 700lb/ft at 3000rpm. Twin turbo power and yours for less then 50k
There is not much out there that will out perform that. 
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| Guitar Zero |
What has a £50k twin turbo 1000 bhp installation got to do with a standard £14k Monaro exactly ? and what sort of moron tries to put 1000 bhp and 950 lbs ft through the rear wheels ? - aside from all this amateur rolling road bullshit, has anyone actually figured one of these cars with the proper equipment ?. |
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| Blarno |
Brabus?
It's just willy waving, most people will buy it and believe the power outputs. |
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| Guitar Zero |
Most powerful Brabus is 730 bhp and 811 lbs ft (limited)
Oh - and here's a thread on a 1000 bhp Monaro - which took over 18 months to get running after destroying it's first engine and only appeared to generate 1000 bhp on 1 single dyno run. http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gass...2&mid=0&i=0&nmt=Diary - 427TT install&mid=0 Love the comment about having to seam weld the rear of the car to stop it ripping apart when you use 600 bhp or above. Also note the 0 to 100 mph time of 8.5 seconds - wow that's like so awesome. Can't really see how all those components and workshop time came in at anywhere close to £50k though. Also note that this car is one of the ones pictured in the Autocar article - not mentioned at all though, just his mate with the 800 bhp one that cost £6k !! |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Quite. And even if it came close to the quoted figures, you'd have to wonder how long it would keep going. One of the American mags did a tuner test of various cars quoting silly outputs, starting at around 800 and going well into four figures. One of them broke down before the test started, another during the test, and most of them had "issues" of one kind or another. And even when they don't break down, there's the matter of actually deploying the power. When evo tested that 9ff thingy, the best 0-60 they managed was 5.2 seconds. |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Finally read the Monaro article - what a load of complete and utter shite. For a start, they trot out that "it's a real man's car" bollocks, which is basically the other side of the usual twattery about the MX5 being a girl's or hairdresser's car.
Not as much bollocks as the car though - apparently every single thing about the standard car is pants, but Mr Monkfish will fix it for you at a price - why not just buy a properly engineered car in the first place? |
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| Matt |
Perhaps the truth is that in it's crude way it has more soul than many a car and an Aussie drunk kind of passion to it?
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| Blarno |
Get out. Now. I don't care if it's your forum! You mentioned those two words in the description of a car! Go on, out!
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| Matt |
Haha, target acquired! | ||||
| Turbonutter |
Must admit i still quite the Antipodean muscle cars - they had a good turnout at the breakfast club last Sunday and they appeal to me in an unsophisticated way. You're right though earlier on in that they don't really "punch" their quoted power | ||||
| Pkh72 |
Sound nice though | ||||
| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
But don't you think we're just ascribing the perceived characteristics of citizens of the country to its cars, in the same way that Italian cars have p****** and s***, German cars are technical and cold, Swedish cars are cool and sophisticated and come flat-packed for home assembly? | ||||
| Turbonutter |
Not sure to be honest Nick. I did have a 5.7 litre Yank V8 muscle car as my second ever car when I was 18. It didn't handle that well, my parents didn't like it and it used a lot of petrol but I still really enjoyed owning and driving it for a year and looking back with rose-tinted specs I'm glad I owned it. My cars now have to transport my family around as well but whilst they are not considered cutting-edge dynamically and would have image problems to some people I do enjoy using them which is to me what counts. |
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| Twelfth Monkey |
Spot on. |
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| Turbonutter |
Rather Monkfish than here though?
http://www.hsv.org.uk/topic.asp?t=747916&f=69&h=27 |
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| ALF |
The standard VXR8 I drove was very dull and put me off this whole genre of car. I wouldn't mind betting that an older AMG or M would be a much better bet unless you are indeed some kind of tuning fruitcake who laps up unlikely BHP claims like a cat laps up cream. In which case you need a Skyline... | ||||
| Turbonutter |
I don't think anyone would disagree about the older AMG or an E39 M5 type thing. Those cars are pretty polished and hard to beat as second hand buys ....however, some people will shy away from those badges for the sake of it, much as they would a new Mini or Alfa etc. Maybe some of the sales were attributable to the fact that they were banging out new VXR8s with warranty for £27k or thereabouts recently. If the actual performance is enough for you ( ignoring that they punch well below their supposed horsepower ) they can have an appeal to some people |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
True, but "because it's not a Merc/BMW" isn't a lot on which to base a successful car company. In a market as tough as today's, you need a car that stand on its own merits. |
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| Turbonutter |
Don't think they've ever been completely panned in a review though have they? They might get placed last but I think the EVO lads have generally enjoyed the ones they've tried haven't they? I'd think it's more of a halo model for the VX range in this country - sales are pretty good for where the cars were engineered compared to AMG Mercs and M-cars. |
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| Blarno |
Monaro or VXR8 would be the choice for me because:
1) It's the underdog and by my twisted logic, I must support it. 2) Merc AMGs are automatics and therefore completely out of the equation. 3) It'll be cheaper to repair than the German equivalents. |
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| "him" |
+1 to the above... Plus a Merc/BMW would look ridiculous outside my house!
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| TimR |
My local VX dealer has a black VXR8 on sale for £28k.
If I was spending that amount of money and on that size of car (i.e., not A4 sized) it would be the main choice for a number of reasons :- I wouldn't touch a current M5 at that price because it'll be a money pit. The previous M5 is much cheaper and I've got the older one anyway. Not interested in Mercs due to the Autobox. Same applies to the Audi RS6. Obviously if I did have £28k to spend it would go on more than 1 car so the VXR8 wouldn't really be a contender anyway.
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Not completely panned, but not drowned with praise either. Not nearly as fast as you'd expect given the power and torque, oddly clumsy chassis. And while they have manual gearboxes, they're so poor as to be a good advert for an automatic. I'm afraid for me it's the same as the Corvette, you get the feeling they got half way through developing it then said "that'll do, most of our customers won't notice anyway". |
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| Turbonutter |
They did feel it was good enough to give the Bathurst S a mention in with the 'Best of the Rest' in the summary for Big Saloons though ..along with the M5 and E63 AMG and I think we all recognize that the horsepower rating system is different to the one the Germans use. What it is, to some people at least, is a cheaper, rough and ready alternative to some of the existing brands doing big grunty saloons. Witness the lap times they print compared to the XFR and RS6. Although the manual is agricultural some people still want a stick shift......even EVO saying that the C63 AMG ,it's often compared to, is denied greatness because of its autobox. I don't think I'd ever need a car that big for my usage but I'm glad it is available - certainly seems to be a few buyers finding it suits their needs/wants and if I had a windfall I'd look forward to trying an E39 M5 against one |
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| Matt |
Why buy a VXR8 though, when you could get a mint Lotus Carlton? I know which I'd prefer. | ||||
| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
There was a write-up on the Bathurst in Sutcliffe's column the other week, and he didn't have a good thing to say about it. In fact the riff of the column was that he was scheduled to drive a Superb and the Bathurst over a couple of days, was looking forward to the latter but not the former, but ended up finding the Superb to be ... er, superb, and the Bathurst to be a steaming pile of ordure. And +1 to Matt: Lotus Carlton every time. |
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| Turbonutter |
- very true re Sutcliffe....but everyone seems to disregard Autocar's opinions on here usually! Seriously though, that was a fair bit at odds with the EVO impressions just recently ...and also their opinion on the normal VXR8 they took to ECOTY in 2007 and the supercharged one ( non-Bathurst ) they tried on the Exmoor roads vs the C63 AMG and V8 M3. It won neither of those tests, nor would I expect it to up against more expensive and dynamically better opposition , but it did get plenty of positive comments from a mix of drivers.
It's all well and good saying you can buy a better 2nd hand M5 for half the cash but many people want a NEW manual shift car and although you or I might not be unduly bothered about image you only have to read forums to see that there are people who wouldn't want to be seen in a new BMW/Merc - a lot of 'also rans' dynamically are popular with buyers for a variety of reasons - doesn't mean they can't offer a decent driving experience in themselves. Also, I don't think Sutcliffe is averse to these type of cars ( Aussies with a big V8 ) - anyone with a long memory may remember the Xmas double issue from 2000 where a selection of cars including a Holden GTS and E46 M3 were driven round Exmoor. I think the Holden was his favourite that day out of the big rwd cars. And Matt, good point on the Lotus Carlton, I'd love one too, but for someone wanting a new car without problems with rust and sourcing 2nd hand parts/body panels in the event of a mishap it would be a headache. Harvey, my Cossie tuning friend, has had 3 of them in the past but he says they are hard work as a 'one-car only, everyday car' now....and he has the ability to fix most things that may make you or I baulk |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
I certainly agree about the need for a NEW manual sporting saloon, though unless you really need rear space, there's always the M3 or S4. I know it's a matter of personal taste, but "rough-and-ready" has never done it for me. | ||||
| Matt |
But do those who want to buy a refined manual performance 4-door look twice at VXR8s? Surely they wouldn't countenance it and it's an enthusiast's choice, which is why I suggested an LC in that instance.
As for the thread title, did you write the bit about the '650bhp' VX Turbo in Ruppert's section this week, GZ? On second thoughts, it was much too restrained for yourself. |
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| Turbonutter |
Well someone is buying them and they seem to be enthusiastic enough to bring them out to events like the Cosford Breakfast Club Next time I go I'll ask a few why they purchased them over the obvious rivals - I suspect price may well come into it and perhaps a yearning for something different 
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| Matt |
Power Red is ace. | ||||
| Turbonutter |
Here you go Matt 
There's a couple of other colours in the Photo forum |
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| Matt |
Cheers. Those wheels are rather spindly. Allows utter brake porn, though. |