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Dr. Hfuhruhurr

F1 Game 2015 - Monaco

And so to THAT race - round the harbour, through the tunnel, past the casino and the hotel. And scary in-car footage. All you have to do is guess the top ten finishers, the pole person and the fastest lapper.

Bonus: how many classified finishers?

Deadline: Friday 22 May 2359 GMT
Big Blue

I think it's round the cafe on the harbour, past the casino, the cafe and the hotel, round the hair pin, through the tunnel and back to the harbour.....
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

It wasn't meant to be in order
PhilD

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
It wasn't meant to be in order


It would certainly be an interesting race if anyone followed your pacenotes!
gooner

A better bonus question might have been "how many on-track overtaking manoeuvres will take place?"
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Are you volunteering to count them?
PhilD

Can't be that hard to count if you have fingers...
Martin

Can you share the pace notes, as I want to be 100% sure I drive it correctly when I'm there in September?!
PhilD

Martin wrote:
Can you share the pace notes, as I want to be 100% sure I drive it correctly when I'm there in September?!


Button and Alonso should still be racing then so just follow them.
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

PhilD wrote:
Martin wrote:
Can you share the pace notes, as I want to be 100% sure I drive it correctly when I'm there in September?!

Button and Alonso should still be racing then so just follow them.

Until they break down
Martin

PhilD wrote:
Martin wrote:
Can you share the pace notes, as I want to be 100% sure I drive it correctly when I'm there in September?!


Button and Alonso should still be racing then so just follow them.




I should be able to keep up in my hire car!
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

You will anyway, traffic in Monaco seldom moves above walking pace
Sav

One of the best racing weekend's of the year. Love Monaco - the lack of racing isn't the point - watching an onboard lap and the general commitment displayed is still stunning to watch. Indianapolis 500 - the prestige, the speed and the racing never gets dull. Rounding off the day is NASCAR's longest race at Charlotte Motor Speedway. Rare for three great events to be on the same weekend.
Scouse

Pole: Hamilton
Fastest: Hamilton
Bonus: 1hr 34min

1) Hamilton
2) Rosberg
3) Vettel
4) Raikonen
5) Bottas
6) Massa
7) Ricciardo
8) Nasr
9) Kyvat
10) Alonso
Eff One

Pole: Hamilton
F/L: Hamilton
Bonus: 14

1. Hamilton
2. Rosberg
3. Raikkonen
4. Ricciardo
5. Bottas
6. Kvyat
7. Sainz
8. Verstappen
9. Hulkenberg
10. Alonso
Mark

We're in Monaco this weekend and been to 1st & 2nd practice today. The Merc's look unassailable on track. The McLaren's sound completely different (very rough!) in comparison to everybody else.

As ever, Monaco is great fun.
JohnC

Pole: Hamilton
F/L: Hamilton
Bonus: 15

1. Hamilton
2. Rosberg
3. Vettel
4. Raikkonen
5. Bottas
6. Ricciardo
7. Massa
8. Verstappen
9. Kvyatt
10. Alonso
BeN

Pole: Hamilton
Fastest: Hamilton
Bonus: 15

(BTW Scouse, you clearly haven't read the bonus question properly... )

1) Hamilton
2) Rosberg
3) Vettel
4) Raikkonen
5) Bottas
6) Sainz
7) Verstappen
8) Massa
9) Maldonado
10) Button
Martin

Mark wrote:
We're in Monaco this weekend and been to 1st & 2nd practice today. The Merc's look unassailable on track. The McLaren's sound completely different (very rough!) in comparison to everybody else.

As ever, Monaco is great fun.


Great stuff!  Enjoy.
Chocy Rocky

Sorry I keep on missing the deadlines.

Pole. Hamilton.
F/L. Alonso.....na, only kidding. Rosberg.
Bonus. Twelve.

1. Hamilton
2. Rosberg
3. Ricciardo
4. Vettel.
5. Kimi
6 Sainz
7.Vestappen
8. Bottas
9. Massa
10. Kvyat
Big Blue

Pole: Rosberg
F/L: Raikkonen
Bonus: 14

1 Rosberg
2 Vettel
3 Hamilton
4 Raikkonen
5 Verstappen
6 Bottas
7 Massa
8 Ricciardo
9 Grosjean
10 Maldonado
Humphrey The Pug

Pole: Hamilton
F/L: Raikkonen
Bonus: 13

1. Hamilton
2. Raikkonen
3. Rosberg
4. Vettel
5. Sainz
6. Ricciardo
7. Bottas
8. Grosjean
9. Massa
10. Kvyat
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Pole/lap Hamilton
Bonus 14

1 Hamilton
2 Rosberg
3 Vettel
4 Raikkonen
5 Bottas
6 Massa
7 Grosjean
8 Nasr
9 Hulkenberg
10 Sainz
PhilD

Pole - Hamilton
F/L - Vettel
Bonus - 14

1) Hamilton
2) Rosberg
3) Vettel
4) Ricciardo
5) Raikkonen
6) Bottas
7) Kvyat
8) Massa
9) Maldonado
10) Grosjean
the other ct

Pole: Rosberg
F/L: Raikkonen
Bonus: 12

1 Hamilton
2 Raikkonen
3 Bottas
4 Ricciardo
5 Verstappen
6 Grosjean
7 Sainz
8 Nasr
9 Perez
10 Alonso
Giant

Pole: Hamilton
Fastest: Hamilton
Bonus: 14

1) Hamilton
2) Rosberg
3) Vettel
4) Raikkonen
5) Bottas
6) ricciardo
7) kyvat
8) Massa
9) Verstappen
10) Alonso
Chris M Wanted a V-10

Pole : Hamilton
F/Lap : Hamilton
Bonus : 18

1. Hamilton
2. Rosberg
3. Vettel
4. Verstappen
5. Raikkonen
6. Bottas
7. Hulkenberg
8. Massa
9. Ricciardo
10. Sainz
Sav

Pole: Rosberg
Fastest lap: Hamilton
Bonus: 14

1. Rosberg
2. Hamilton
3. Vettel
4. Verstappen
5. Raikkonen
6. Sainz
7. Ricciardo
8. Massa
9. Kyvat
10. Bottas
Mark

Martin wrote:
Mark wrote:
We're in Monaco this weekend and been to 1st & 2nd practice today. The Merc's look unassailable on track. The McLaren's sound completely different (very rough!) in comparison to everybody else.

As ever, Monaco is great fun.


Great stuff!  Enjoy.


Cheers Martin
Sav

Enjoy yourself Mark. It must be a fabulous event to attend.

Raikkonen's Saturday misfortune just continues, he got loose on entry to St Devote and tagged the left rear with the barrier in the morning session. Tyre warm up is a significant problem even on the super soft, even the increase of air and track temperature's compared to Thursday are not really helping. The upside is that the Super Soft tyre is lasting for 5 or more laps without going off. With how they bunch up at Rascasse in preparation for a flying lap, the struggle for tyre temperature is will be even more of a problem in qualifying.

You may also see for the first time this weekend a Virtual Safety Car in an F1 race. A similar system, Full Course Yellow, has been used in World Endurance Championship for a while and was used in GP2 yesterday. It does what it says on the tin - cars are electronically limited to a certain speed until the yellow flag conditions are withdrawn without the Mercedes AMG GT being deployed. Admittedly it still looks strange to me; seeing a train of cars all bunched up going so slowly without the physical presence of the Safety Car. Most commonly the VSC will be used when removing debris off the track or removing a stricken car where there is an opening nearby - the Safety Car will still be used for more significant shunts.
Mark

Sav wrote:
Enjoy yourself Mark. It must be a fabulous event to attend.

Raikkonen's Saturday misfortune just continues, he got loose on entry to St Devote and tagged the left rear with the barrier in the morning session. Tyre warm up is a significant problem even on the super soft, even the increase of air and track temperature's compared to Thursday are not really helping. The upside is that the Super Soft tyre is lasting for 5 or more laps without going off. With how they bunch up at Rascasse in preparation for a flying lap, the struggle for tyre temperature is will be even more of a problem in qualifying.

You may also see for the first time this weekend a Virtual Safety Car in an F1 race. A similar system, Full Course Yellow, has been used in World Endurance Championship for a while and was used in GP2 yesterday. It does what it says on the tin - cars are electronically limited to a certain speed until the yellow flag conditions are withdrawn without the Mercedes AMG GT being deployed. Admittedly it still looks strange to me; seeing a train of cars all bunched up going so slowly without the physical presence of the Safety Car. Most commonly the VSC will be used when removing debris off the track or removing a stricken car where there is an opening nearby - the Safety Car will still be used for more significant shunts.


Thanks Sav

The worrying thing is that the safety (& medical) car sounds better than the F1 cars.

The GP2 cars are the loudest things here - and they also smell the best.  
Sav

I'm not surprised you say that, the GP2 cars are still using a Mecachrome naturally aspirated V8. There is also no hybrid element either.

Tyre warm up was indeed a problem in qualifying, I can't remember the last time that the drivers were having to do a lap at full pace before doing a proper flying lap.

What a shame that Rosberg bought out the yellows at St Devote towards the end of Q2, I believe Button was on course to get through to Q3. His race pace on high fuel will be interesting. I think the high fuel pace for everyone will be interesting, Practice 2 was effectively bought to a close because of the rain, and due to the importance of qualifying, everyone this morning focused on single lap pace.

With how some cars are out of position on the grid, this might be the perfect debut for the Virtual Safety Car...you might even hear the Mercedes GT again too!
Giant

Just watching BBC highlights of qualifying. They've just mentioned EJ has a cut on his nose, while DC has a split eyebrow. Have they been scraping?!
Frank Bullitt

Waits for the whiners to begin...
Big Blue

Ouch!

If it was anyone but Lewis I'd feel sorry for them.
Martin

Thankfully he handled the interviews well and running into the P3 sign was pretty funny.
Sav

If the finish to Monaco was a tad disappointing, the finish to the Indianpolis 500 certainly was not. Juan Pablo Montoya just collecting his second 500 win in a thrilling finish at the end. He came from 30th position due to being hit from the rear under yellow early in the race, attention to the right rear wheel guard was needed, but managed to race his way through the pack. Stunning drive.

After all the talk of airborne crashes prior to today, the racing in general absolutely fantastic. NASCAR up next now - I don't see that matching the quality of racing in the 500.
the other ct

So Sav has Montoya eased the Monaco pain?
Sav

the other ct wrote:
So Sav has Montoya eased the Monaco pain?


Oh absolutely. I was just praying Power couldn't get back to Montoya, it didn't seem worth leading at some points with how the leader couldn't get away - the draft was just so powerful as it has proven to be since the DW12 was introduced. I think Justin Wilson on the final lap was a help too, he increased the gap between Montoya and Power. After that, the only fear was if Power got a run off turn 4 and would draft past before the line. Thankfully that didn't happen.

I mean people might just look at this as some cars merely going around a big rectangle. However, the judgement and skill needed to go around the outside of another car in turn 1 or turn 3 at 230 mph on a flat surface and with such a narrow groove must take utter commitment and bravery. It's not like later this evening in NASCAR when you've got progressive banking to lean on.

IndyCar just rocks.
Giant

I haven't seen any Indy/Cart/Champ cars for years, the cars look very odd with the wheel pods and low wings.
Sav

IndyCar for this year has allowed custom bodywork, commonly known as aero kits in the series. Both General Motors and Honda have produced their own respective aero kits. Previously Dallara, racecar constructor just supplied the chassis’ and bodywork to all teams. The road course Honda package takes a few cues from F1 with the multi element front wing. The wheel pods have been a great introduction since 2012; they reduce the risk of airborne accidents with the rear wheels not exposed. They help aerodynamic efficiency as a secondary benefit.
the other ct

Nail biting after the last caution wasn't it? I didn't think JPM had enough to win and when he went past Power with three to go I thought it was too soon.

Pagenaud and Dixon must be feeling sick after being so strong in the race and the past fortnight.
Sav

It was indeed, the crash between Saavedra (it really looked ugly when he got t-boned, then slammed into the inside wall for good measure), Hawksworth and Coletti took a long time to clear up. It added a certain urgency to the race with so few laps remaining.

I thought Montoya had stalled out in the draft with about 7 laps to go, it looks like he was getting close to Dixon and Power but just couldn’t quite complete the pass on either. I feared he was becoming like Kimball – a close-by spectator but not a contender for the win. Another key moment IMO was when Dixon got pinched to the bottom by Power and had to lift, that cost him a lot of momentum. Power was also quite nice to Montoya down the pit straight, easing off the throttle to allow JPM through with 3 laps remaining.

However, Power’s real fate was perhaps sealed at the last pitstop. He asked for rear wing to be taken out for less drag, that plan was fine for leading but it was always going to a struggle to follow other cars in the turbulent air with less downforce. Critically it was also hotter than it had been compared to practice or qualifying, a lot of drivers were complaining about push for this reason – therefore the optimum balance definitely favoured a little more downforce rather than running with less wing.

JPM’s win reminds me of Franchitti in 2012, Ganassi and Honda were nowhere in practice or qualifying but Dario slowly progressed through the field and ultimately won in the end. Montoya didn’t display this front-running pace in practice or qualifying.
Twelfth Monkey

Martin wrote:
Thankfully he handled the interviews well and running into the P3 sign was pretty funny.


Did you think so?  He just seems immature and petulant to me, and my thoughts on his deliberately running into the sign are not really fit for print.  Those who can't deal graciously with the most privileged of first world problems perhaps need a taste of something really painful, like the absence of enough food or adequate medical care that are not uncommon in much of the world.
Big Blue

I agree in the wider scheme of things Da Ham has nothing to worry about but in the moment he was quite calm considering. When you look at the faces of players and fans at Hull yesterday, or if you've suffered relegation as a fan or player, at that time nothing else in the world is important.

Whilst he sulked a bit and was visibly pissed right off he had the grace to shake Nico's hand and both the other drivers understood his frame of mind which would have helped. That said it would have been far more entertaining if Nico had burst out laughing and Seb had pointed and grinned like a demented baboon as he stepped from the car. Perhaps it is the demeanour of the other podium placed drivers we should be applauding.....
Martin

I did, yes.  

But then I didn't make the same link....
Twelfth Monkey

I think that there was quite a contrast between how Da Ham was and how Alonso was.  The latter has much to feel aggrieved about, in F1 terms at least.  Pissed on his chips by leaving Ferrari after it finally manages to produce a decent car, joins the dream team which turns out to be something of a nightmare, slow, unreliable, etc etc.

I fear that Alonso has the opposite of Fangio's ability to always be in the right car at the right time.

Oh, and his penalty seemed inexplicable to me, whereas Ricciardo's punting of Raikkonen looked a dead cert for a penalty to me.
Martin

Two very different situations.  Alonso made the decision to move teams and must have known it would take time to be competitive.   At least Hamilton behaved in the interview I saw and said the right things, whether he felt that way or not.  That's an improvement and one I welcome as a fan of the way he drives but not how he behaves.

I do agree that Ricciardo deserved a penalty and was really surprised that Alonso got one.
Twelfth Monkey

Yes, certainly he's the author of his own misfortune in terms of moving.

I wonder who the driver steward was?  Perhaps it was Massa, multi-tasking from the cockpit?
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

But if Alonso had stayed at Ferrari, he'd still only be scrabbling for second and third places, just as he did for most of the last five years.
Twelfth Monkey

That's true.  I have some admiration for Honda's engineering, but I can't see them closing the gap any time soon.
PhilD

Martin wrote:
At least Hamilton behaved in the interview I saw and said the right things, whether he felt that way or not.  That's an improvement and one I welcome as a fan of the way he drives but not how he behaves.


I think this is where I am; I still see 12th's sulky child but he does seem to be getting better!
Martin

There was an interesting interview with him and Thierry Henry in the SKY pre-race show that I watched yesterday evening.  They both talked about the need (not just desire) to win and how they deal with it when they don't.  Lewis said that he is trying really hard to fight his emotions and put the team first, but it's not easy.  He wants Rosberg to finish 2nd for the team, but further back for his championship chances and he wishes the telemetry wasn't quite so detailed as it erodes some of his advantage.

Henry talked about the differences between an F1 and football teammate, but when it comes to someone who plays in the same position as you, it's not all that different.  You want them to do well for the team, but not as well as you!
Humphrey The Pug

PhilD wrote:
Martin wrote:
At least Hamilton behaved in the interview I saw and said the right things, whether he felt that way or not.  That's an improvement and one I welcome as a fan of the way he drives but not how he behaves.


I think this is where I am; I still see the 12th's sulky child but he does seem to be getting better!


As much as ai struggle to like him, I can completely understand his emotions at the end of the weekend; he had a 20s lead over Rosberg and whether it was his call, his teams call, or both their calls, someone fucked up massively and Hamilton lost a comfortable victory because of this, I'd be pissed off too.

You could tell he was mightily pissed off, however he conducted himself well, I can imagine though, there was alot of shouting, swearing and things being thrown about privately.
PhilD

Humphrey The Pug wrote:
PhilD wrote:
Martin wrote:
At least Hamilton behaved in the interview I saw and said the right things, whether he felt that way or not.  That's an improvement and one I welcome as a fan of the way he drives but not how he behaves.


I think this is where I am; I still see the 12th's sulky child but he does seem to be getting better!


As much as ai struggle to like him, I can completely understand his emotions at the end of the weekend; he had a 20s lead over Rosberg and whether it was his call, his teams call, or both their calls, someone fucked up massively and Hamilton lost a comfortable victory because of this, I'd be pissed off too.

You could tell he was mightily pissed off, however he conducted himself well, I can imagine though, there was alot of shouting, swearing and things being thrown about privately.


No one is questioning his emotions (well maybe 12th) it's his behaviour which grates.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

... but he's still a Brit and as Brits we should want a British winner, and at the moment British potential GP winners can be counted on the fingers of one finger.

Really find it hard to see why some Brits don't like to see him winning every GP
Twelfth Monkey

Why should we prefer a British winner?

My F1 heroes have been almost exclusively foreign.
PhilD

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
... but he's still a Brit and as Brits we should want a British winner, and at the moment British potential GP winners can be counted on the fingers of one finger.

Really find it hard to see why some Brits don't like to see him winning every GP


I cheer when he wins, and I cheer when he has doesn't. Is that ok?  
Giant

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
... but he's still a Brit and as Brits we should want a British winner, and at the moment British potential GP winners can be counted on the fingers of one finger.

Really find it hard to see why some Brits don't like to see him winning every GP


Because generally in the past he's behaved as an odious spoilt brat?

I've never understood the support the driver of your nationality view, its not a nation versus nation sport. I support drivers I like, nationality may play its part in that, I probably like Button more than I would were he from another nation, but nationality is a long way down the list of reasons l like a driver.
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Pole Hamilton
Lap Ricciardo
Bonus 17

1 Rosberg
2 Vettel
3 Hamilton
4 Kvyat
5 Ricciardo
6 Raikkonen
7 Perez
8 Button
9 Nasr
10 Sainz
11 Hulkenberg

Scores

9 - Big Blue
7 - Dr H, Chris M
6 - Sav
5 - PhilD
4 - Scouse, JohnC, Giant
3 - Eff One, BeN, Chocy Rocky
2 - Humphrey, the other ct

Deemed (2 points)

Tim, Gooner, Skyhook

Standings

72 - Chris M
70 - Dr H
62 - Scouse, Sav
60 - Eff One
58 - JohnC, Giant
53 - Humphrey
52 - Big Blue
50 - the other ct
47 - BeN
46 - Tim, PhilD
41 - Chocy Rocky
40 - Gooner
38 - Skyhook
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Giant wrote:
I've never understood the support the driver of your nationality view, its not a nation versus nation sport. I support drivers I like, nationality may play its part in that, I probably like Button more than I would were he from another nation, but nationality is a long way down the list of reasons l like a driver.

+1 to all of this
BeN

Giant wrote:
Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
... but he's still a Brit and as Brits we should want a British winner, and at the moment British potential GP winners can be counted on the fingers of one finger.

Really find it hard to see why some Brits don't like to see him winning every GP


Because generally in the past he's behaved as an odious spoilt brat?

I've never understood the support the driver of your nationality view, its not a nation versus nation sport. I support drivers I like, nationality may play its part in that, I probably like Button more than I would were he from another nation, but nationality is a long way down the list of reasons l like a driver.


Same here. (*says the non-Brit*)
Humphrey The Pug

Ouch; to my score!
PhilD

Giant wrote:


I've never understood the support the driver of your nationality view, its not a nation versus nation sport. I support drivers I like, nationality may play its part in that, I probably like Button more than I would were he from another nation, but nationality is a long way down the list of reasons l like a driver.


It's not hard to understand, even if you don't agree. If the driver for team A wins the driver's title but team B wins the manufacturer's title which one do you think the news will lead with? For many fans it's all about the driver and therefore nationality is important, in the same way as we go mad for Murray every year at Wimbledon.  Driver's also talk about how special it is to win their home GP so it's a mutual thing.
JohnC

Humphrey The Pug wrote:
Ouch; to my score!


Yes. Without the last minute reshuffle it was looking like a reasonable race points wise. I also put my predictions up thinking that Williams were doing their normal full fuel runs in 1st and 2nd practice only to find that they had no pace in any case.

Beginning to drop away I fear!
Sav

It was amusing seeing Massa being Massa, and whining about Verstappen’s shunt and him being too young to drive in F1. This is the same person who hit the rear of Perez’ car at the end of last year’s Canadian Grand Prix in an incident not too dissimilar to Monaco, and described Pirelli’s initial 2014 Brazilian GP tyre allocation as “dangerous”. FFS.

I think Verstappen has driven about as expected, rather brilliantly in most of the GP’s so far. His passing in China in particular was fantastic, passing from a long way back into turns with barley a lock-up like a more experienced driver, even passing Ricciardo in the main Red Bull car. He had multiple opportunities to screw up those passes but didn’t.

I do feel sorry for Hamilton. Yes, he is paid a tremendous amount of money, yes, he is an extremely privileged position, and his own groans last Sunday pale into insignificance compared to the setbacks of some people around the world. But that all of that perhaps misses the point. Like a lot of great driver’s across motorsport, Hamilton is a serial winner – Alonso and Vettel have a similar trait. Hamilton does come across as arrogant and rude, a lot of times over the radio in particular, but I believe he cares about winning to a greater extent than Rosberg. When Rosberg loses he almost seems content with it, I could well be reading this all wrong, but I believe that Hamilton has a greater desire to win, a sense of urgency that Rosberg lacks.

As for the pit call, it was just so unnecessary. The 25.7 gap that Hamilton had during the brief Virtual Safety Car was irrelevant, that was the probably the logic in pitting him. However, tyres simply weren’t marginal at any point of the weekend, even if there was a theoretical gap in pitting Hamilton and getting him out before Rosberg. All of the team’s knew it was going to be a one-stop race even before turning up, the hardening of the soft compounds compared to 2014 almost guaranteed that. And anyhow, one can be 3 seconds a gap slower at Monaco and still not get overtaken. It kind of reminded me of the 2011 Monaco GP. Button pitted for a second time and on that day the tyres were a lot more marginal, but still, Vettel held on until the red flag was issued – they all got new tyres under those conditions, so Button’s extra pitstop all came to nothing.

The Virtual Safety Car did raise a few unknowns for the future. It changed the picture of the GP2 Feature race, and some were losers in that process. Teams also can’t rigidly apply calculations based upon Virtual Safety Car conditions, this is what caught out Mercedes IMO – suddenly the physical SC was deployed and that reduced the margin that Hamilton had to Rosberg and Vettel. With the barrier repair required at St Devote, the Safety Car deployment was always a high probability. The VSC was correctly applied in GP2, though, for bits of loose wing on the track – that is the kind of situation where it is more likely that the VSC conditions will be consistent.

Another interesting scenario could be if the VSC was deployed, two cars are in close proximity, but the trailing car overtakes just as the VSC is withdrawn. That was happened a few times in WEC, when the driver behind takes advantage of the driver in front perhaps not realising that the Full Course Yellow has been withdrawn.
Frank Bullitt

PhilD wrote:
Giant wrote:


I've never understood the support the driver of your nationality view, its not a nation versus nation sport. I support drivers I like, nationality may play its part in that, I probably like Button more than I would were he from another nation, but nationality is a long way down the list of reasons l like a driver.


It's not hard to understand, even if you don't agree. If the driver for team A wins the driver's title but team B wins the manufacturer's title which one do you think the news will lead with? For many fans it's all about the driver and therefore nationality is important, in the same way as we go mad for Murray every year at Wimbledon.  Driver's also talk about how special it is to win their home GP so it's a mutual thing.


Entirely agree with Giant, but from your explanation Phil I can now see why Hamilton was so pissed at not winning his home GP and coming home 3rd.

I don't go mad for Murray either , I couldn't give a monkies - I'm afraid 'nation' is rarely of interest for me when it comes to sport.
Big Blue

I like when Murray beats anyone but Federer, Nadal especially as he's a drug-addled little cheat so I've been told (year off for "injury" to clear him with the LTA apparently).

As to F1 drivers: if they're in the red car, they're in the fan book.

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