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JohnC

F*ck it!!

Wife has just called me from the car (A5 2.0TSFi with 35K on the clock) to say that as she drove in to the car park she had a warning flash up saying the car had low oil pressure and it should be stopped immediately.

The car is of course out of warranty by nearly 9 months but has a full Audi service history. No extended warranty unfortunately due to the massive cost (that should have been enough of a warning!)

I hope it is a sensor but having googled Audi engine problems, it would appear that this particular engine has a multitude of problems and few of them are cheap.

However I do not consider it reasonable that a 3 and a half year old car with average mileage and a full service history should potentially need a new engine or major rebuild. I will wait to see what they say when it is recovered but I think the sale of goods act says that items have to last a reasonable period of time based on what they are and I am sure I have seen that a reasonable period of time for an engine is 100,000 miles.
Frank Bullitt

I suspect if you are a regular customer of a good local Audi glass-house then you will get positive support from Audi UK and the dealer if this is more than a pressure switch on the blink.

Good luck.
Big Blue

Ouch indeed. Ask for a deal on a replacement car. The sales deal can lose the repair cost.
Grampa

Re: F*ck it!!

JohnC wrote:
However I do not consider it reasonable that a 3 and a half year old car with average mileage and a full service history should potentially need a new engine or major rebuild.


I think this is an entirely reasonable statement and hope Audi look on it favourably if it turns out to be a serious problem.

I've had two that turned out not so bad recently - turbo was obviously not kicking in on the Scirocco (same engine?) - just turned out to be a pipe that had become disconnected.

Mini making a really nasty and expensive sounding noise - turned out to be a just a frayed cam belt and the noise was just the frayed bit hitting the cover.

Hopefully yours will turn out to be equally minor.

I take it she has checked the oil level?  My Scirocco engine is the first engine I've owned in 30 years that requires the oil to be topped up between services.
Martin

Hopefully Audi will do the right thing, fingers crossed.
JohnC

Fingers crossed indeed.

The oil was showing about 60% full between the max and minimum.

I topped it up with the remainder of the bottle of oil I bought about a year ago and it is now nearly full, so I don't see low oil being an issue. The low oil pressure came on again even after topping it up.

Still waiting for the recovery truck.
TreVoR

My betting is a faulty pressure switch or a loose wire.
PhilD

TreVoR wrote:
My betting is a faulty pressure switch or a loose wire.


Oh no, this means you are going to need a new chassis and engine.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

There is an issue with the oil level sensor on some Audis..... my boss at last place of work had a low level indication light come on, so added a litre-or-so.  A while later, same thing happened.  A few days after the second top-up, he loaned it out for one of the employees to use on company business, who reported that it was belching out clouds of smoke.  Turned out that the level indicator was at fault and the sump had been over-filled as a result. No manual dipstick apparently so you have to rely upon the warnng message to top up, and when that goes wrong.........
Twelfth Monkey

We've had five between us and they've all had dipsticks.  Surely they all still do?
Frank Bullitt

Low oil pressure, so long as the oil is at least at the minimum mark, won't ever be solved by putting more oil in.

Your sensor is up the swannie.
PG

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
We've had five between us and they've all had dipsticks.  Surely they all still do?


Sadly a lot of cars now seem to have electronic dipsticks only (both my XF's for example). I don't mind an electronic dipstick, but I'd still like to be able to pull a dipstick out for myself as well just to double check.

Re the OP - let's hope it is the sensor.
JohnC

Car was recovered by Green Flag around 2pm and I phoned Glasgow Audi to tell them it would arrive with them in 15 minutes (as they has asked me to do).

I asked about a courtesy car and when they would look at the A5 and was told that they would need to get someone to call me back but they would do that in the next 15 to 20 minutes.

6pm and I am still waiting.

I think Glasgow Audi and Douglas Park BMW are twins separated at birth and neither have had a good upbringing!
JohnC

I got to speak to someone at the garage after 6 last night and was promised a phone call this morning - nothing!

I have just called, with 8 minutes of the morning left, to be told that the individual is unavailable and that she will leave a message for him to call me later today.

When I told her that I needed to know with a degree of urgency whether they could give us a courtesy car because there were meetings and arrangements which would need to be changed if one was not available, I was brushed off with an excuse that she couldn't help me and she would leave a message for me to be phoned.

How hard can it be? If there isn't a car available just tell me and i'll hire one but I also need to know how long to hire it for. Communication!
Grampa

JohnC wrote:
I got to speak to someone at the garage after 6 last night and was promised a phone call this morning - nothing!

I have just called, with 8 minutes of the morning left, to be told that the individual is unavailable and that she will leave a message for him to call me later today.

When I told her that I needed to know with a degree of urgency whether they could give us a courtesy car because there were meetings and arrangements which would need to be changed if one was not available, I was brushed off with an excuse that she couldn't help me and she would leave a message for me to be phoned.

How hard can it be? If there isn't a car available just tell me and i'll hire one but I also need to know how long to hire it for. Communication!


This style of communication and assistance must feature on the VW Audi customer service training course - you could be describing my local dealer!
Racing Teatray

JohnC wrote:
I got to speak to someone at the garage after 6 last night and was promised a phone call this morning - nothing!

I have just called, with 8 minutes of the morning left, to be told that the individual is unavailable and that she will leave a message for him to call me later today.

When I told her that I needed to know with a degree of urgency whether they could give us a courtesy car because there were meetings and arrangements which would need to be changed if one was not available, I was brushed off with an excuse that she couldn't help me and she would leave a message for me to be phoned.

How hard can it be? If there isn't a car available just tell me and i'll hire one but I also need to know how long to hire it for. Communication!


Urgh. Try sales - spin a spiel that you are thinking of a replacement...see if that winkles a car out of them...
gooner

Indeed. A bit of bullshit about how this latest glitch is making you think about having the peace of mind of a new A5 could get you somewhere.
JohnC

Just had a call to tell me that the car has no oil in it at all!

I asked how the oil check we carried out could show it had 60% between minimum and maximum and now it has nothing. In addition why didn't it come up with a warning of low oil level? They couldn't answer that but wanted permission to do some more work on diagnostics.

I don't like the sound of this.

In particular, he started to spout me something they obviously read quite often, that the car can use up to half a litre of oil every 700 miles and the oil needs checked regularly. Half a litre every 700 miles is smoke screen territory!

This might be the last Audi.

And his final words were, I'll see if I can chase up that courtesy car for you Sir and I'll get back to you when I hear something. I had to firmly tell him that this wasn't an open ended request and I need to know in the next 30 minutes whether they can give us something. 10 minutes gone. We'll see if he takes more than 30!
Tim

Racing Teatray wrote:


Urgh. Try sales - spin a spiel that you are thinking of a replacement...see if that winkles a car out of them...


+1 and it'd be a replacement from a different manufacturer.

I think they're taking the piss.
It's not part of AC group is it?
Grampa

gooner wrote:
Indeed. A bit of bullshit about how this latest glitch is making you think about having the peace of mind of a new A5 could get you somewhere.


In my experience buying a new VW Audi is even more difficult than getting one serviced!  I doubt they would even get out of their seat to show you a top of the range A8, let alone put a bomb under the service dept for a new A5.
Frank Bullitt

JohnC wrote:
I asked how the oil check we carried out could show it had 60% between minimum and maximum and now it has nothing. In addition why didn't it come up with a warning of low oil level? They couldn't answer that but wanted permission to do some more work on diagnostics.


If you've got to the oil pressure light coming on then yes, if have no doubt there is mechanical damage especially on a turbocharged engine and you should get shot ASAP.
JohnC

Well I got a call back to say that Audi won't give me a courtesy car because the car isn't in warranty BUT when he started on again about no oil I had to tell him that I used to build my own engines so I knew what he was talking about when it came to oil pressure and oil levels and they were different. How can the car say it has no oil pressure but the oil level is well within limits when we tested it. Now he is saying there is no oil in it. Something doesn't stack up. He said he would go and speak to the technicians again.

I got another call back to say they had found the problem. apparently there is a control flap in the crankcase breather system which can get stuck and when it is stuck open a sensor can assume that there is no oil pressure - not quite sure how that could be quite so sensitive but the bottom line is that they only needed to top the car up with 1 litre of oil (from an apparent empty!) and that the replacement part in the oil breather system would be £290 fully fitted incl the diagnostic work.

I think that is a satisfactory result with a slightly concerning undertone. I say that with the knowledge that a friend who had an original Audi Quattro was told when it was serviced, that it needed a new Intercooler. My friend knew quite a bit about engines and was well aware that if the intercooler was gone, the car's performance would be pretty average, so he told them to leave the intercooler. He had it checked afterwards and it was perfect and he has never gone back.
JohnC

Tim wrote:
I think they're taking the piss.
It's not part of AC group is it?


No surprisingly. They are owned now by Lookers.
PG

JohnC wrote:
Tim wrote:
I think they're taking the piss.
It's not part of AC group is it?


No surprisingly. They are owned now by Lookers.


It is one aspect of life that never ceases to appall me. There are so many instances when somebody starts to bullshit you about a subject you know something about and they soon realise that they are being called out for bullshit. As in this case. And they never apologise, they just change their story. From "there's no oil in it" and the working you up to a nice engione strip down bill; to "we've found a fault and put a litre of oil in". Fucking dickheads...
Martin

Grampa wrote:
gooner wrote:
Indeed. A bit of bullshit about how this latest glitch is making you think about having the peace of mind of a new A5 could get you somewhere.


In my experience buying a new VW Audi is even more difficult than getting one serviced!  I doubt they would even get out of their seat to show you a top of the range A8, let alone put a bomb under the service dept for a new A5.


Not in my experience.  I found Audi sales to terrible on a number of occasions over the years, until I was interested in an A8.  My local dealer has someone dedicated to R8 / A8 / A7 / RS6 sales and dealing with her was a very different experience.

Poor service John, but pleased to hear that it's fixed and you haven't had a huge bill.
JohnC

Martin wrote:
Poor service John, but pleased to hear that it's fixed and you haven't had a huge bill.


My wife is now a bit unsettled and wondering if she should change cars. I think the first thing I get though might be an extended warranty from someone other than Audi! The last thing we need is an engine rebuild or replacement and oil consumption is a worry. I might look at changing it in the spring when the market for convertibles starts to hot up a bit.
Michael

They sound like they're taking the piss. I'd be lodging a complaint with Audi UK detailing the irregularities in terms of their diagnosis. It does seem the less mechanically astute would have been fleeced.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

How did they conclude that it had no oil in it?
It was either a lie or incompetence in checking the oil level; whether or not Audi UK would be interested in any complaint that you may lodge is another matter......
JohnC

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
How did they conclude that it had no oil in it?


Apparently they have somewhere they can put a mechanical dipstick in to the engine and there was no oil on it! But a litre filled it up. Mmmm think not!
Twelfth Monkey

I'm glad that the end result wasn't too bad, but the dealership is shit.  My local Audi place used to be pretty poor, but became part of Sytners a few years back.  I'd actually recommend them now, but if your local dealer is shit it really does spoil your relationship with a manufacturer.
JohnC

I have pondered it overnight and I am not particularly comfortable with any car which has had oil related problems especially with a turbo involved. I might have a look around for something different when we get the car back and I can check a few things on it.

Glasgow Audi have always been crap although anyone I know who has a car in warranty appears to be quite happy with the service - a happy smiley front with not as much substance behind it.

Sales have always been crap and we would have bought a couple of cars over the years if we could have got someone interested in selling us one.
TreVoR

I'm struggling to work out how a flap in the oil breather can cause low oil pressure and a faulty read of oil level.
simonp

JohnC wrote:
Half a litre every 700 miles is smoke screen territory!


My Clio used to drink that in 500 miles with no smoke and not a drop on the driveway either. Fuck knows where it went!
JohnC

TreVoR wrote:
I'm struggling to work out how a flap in the oil breather can cause low oil pressure and a faulty read of oil level.


Me too. You never know, it might get fitted with a new pressure switch when it's in!!
JohnC

I had a read at the manual last night and it says that every time the bonnet is opened the car will give an oil level reading - that was what I saw when the car was at the office because my wife now tells me that it just popped up and she didn't actually look it up in the menu - that was 60% up from minimum. I am comfortable that the car had oil and hope it is a faulty sensor but the garage's comments on no oil were the worrying bit!
Big Blue

The gorilla is at about 1litre per 1200 miles. 15w30 is pretty light and this is the norm for Alpina engines. The dash does a good job of telling me about such requirements.
Martin

It can't have been out of oil, I'd definitely be talking to Audi UK.  

I've not had to put oil in mine yet, the fill level doesn't even move between services (19,000 miles).  The Boxster has needed about 2.5 litres in 23,000 miles, including what the dealer put in the other week (0w-40 iirc)

1 litre / 1200 miles sounds a lot to me.
Tim

Martin wrote:

1 litre / 1200 miles sounds a lot to me.


Haven't they always covered themselves by saying 1 litre per 1,000 miles?
I'm sure BMW do/did the same.

I'd definitely be on to Audi UK about the garage though.
Martin

Yes, I think they have, doesn't mean it is t excessive though. A quick google shows that the V8 twin turbo has a reputation for being heavy on oil.

I'm just surprised that BB is happy to be running an 'Oil Burner'.....
Frank Bullitt

Tim wrote:
Martin wrote:

1 litre / 1200 miles sounds a lot to me.


Haven't they always covered themselves by saying 1 litre per 1,000 miles?
I'm sure BMW do/did the same.


I think all manufacturers do the same - the A2 uses about 1L of oil every 8-10k (which is probably twice as much as when new) I tend to put 0.5L in 6 months after the service, not sure on the DS4 yet but the last one never used a drop between services.
Big Blue

The B10 did 1000 miles per litre and the consensus is that this is the norm. At least the oil is always relatively clean
Racing Teatray

Likewise the V10 in the M5.
the other ct

With modern petrols you are unlikely to see an oil smoke screen.

My departed 5 series went through the stuff like Olly Reed, aced the MOT emissions and only very occasionally had a smokey burb on start up. I've just had a look back over my old receipts to see just how bad it was. In 2015 I bought five of these:



Plus a two litre bottle. That included an oil change but I only do 10k a year. The first seven months of this year I bought 12 litres!

It was was at the level of consuption for about three years. A hot catalytic converter is a miracle worker.
JohnC

Martin wrote:
It can't have been out of oil, I'd definitely be talking to Audi UK.  

I've not had to put oil in mine yet, the fill level doesn't even move between services (19,000 miles).  The Boxster has needed about 2.5 litres in 23,000 miles, including what the dealer put in the other week (0w-40 iirc)

1 litre / 1200 miles sounds a lot to me.


Mine doesn't use a drop of oil either.

Got the car back yesterday with a £17 charge for oil which would suggest there wasn't a great deal of the stuff used at dealer's prices and everything seems to be running smoothly and quietly.

I cam home last night to my wife searching the BMW used car site together with Autotrader which doesn't give me much hope that the A5 will be with us for long!
Martin

Hopefully that's it.

Mine asked for some coolant yesterday, I can't remember ever having to top that up before in any car I've had.  Engine was warm so I put 0.5 litre in which turned the warning off and will take a look this morning.

Might have a look at Autotrader afterwards.....
Chris M Wanted a V-10

What about the crankcase breather control flap?
JohnC

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
What about the crankcase breather control flap?


They changed that, or at least I presume that is the part we were charged for (about £90 for the part)!
Roadsterstu

JohnC wrote:
Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
How did they conclude that it had no oil in it?


Apparently they have somewhere they can put a mechanical dipstick in to the engine and there was no oil on it! But a litre filled it up. Mmmm think not!


Probably driven into the workshop, switched off and checked immediately. Sat for a while, you complained, they checked again and got a correct reading?

I do not trust main dealers one bit with servicing stuff.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

JohnC wrote:
Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
What about the crankcase breather control flap?


They changed that, or at least I presume that is the part we were charged for (about £90 for the part)!

Oh - I was thinking that , after all the commotion, you only had to pay the £17 charge for oil........
gonnabuildabuggy

JohnC wrote:
I got another call back to say they had found the problem. apparently there is a control flap in the crankcase breather system which can get stuck and when it is stuck open a sensor can assume that there is no oil pressure - not quite sure how that could be quite so sensitive but the bottom line is that they only needed to top the car up with 1 litre of oil (from an apparent empty!) and that the replacement part in the oil breather system would be £290 fully fitted incl the diagnostic work.


Pity it's been done already. Did you get the faulty part back.

Given it's flap in the crankcase breather I'll wager £10 it's stuck due to oil contamination and 10 minutes with white spirit will sort it.

Had a different but similar experience with a blocked breather which various garages diagnosed as a blown head gasket but 10 minutes with a toothbrush and white spirit fixed.

Main dealers know less about cars than most independents due to the plug and play mentality. I'd go with a specialist once it's out of warranty.
Big Blue

Martin wrote:
Hopefully that's it.

Mine asked for some coolant yesterday, I can't remember ever having to top that up before in any car I've had.  Engine was warm so I put 0.5 litre in which turned the warning off and will take a look this morning.

Might have a look at Autotrader afterwards.....


The bike is low on coolant I noted yesterday, but as it spends 80% of its time at 104°C that's no surprise. I have almost 2l of Yamalube coolant which should last me as long as I keep the bike.

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