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Alf McQueef

Evo first drive of the new S4 Avant

http://www.evo.co.uk/audi/s4/1782...m=email&utm_source=newsletter

Evo's usual "its not hard-edged enough" shouts aside, It sounds like Audi have made a car I would like to have as a daily driver. A tad too soft for constant queefery is fine allied to genuinely good ride comfort and refinement, and a decent handling balance, which is where sporty Audis have generally failed in recent years (decades?).

The old S4 Avant was a tempting lease buy, they were excellent value when I was looking, possible because they were nearing end of life, but presumably also due to good residuals. The new one sounds tempting - though it sounds like the saloon is a worthy step up in dynamics over the Avant.

They also allude to the "sub M" group test of C43, XE S, S4, and 340i that I have wanted them to do for some time, these are often the real-world performance heroes for people who use the car a decent amount as a daily driver, not just poncing about in town centres (which is where I see most newish full fat sports models!!).
gonnabuildabuggy

Re: Evo first drive of the new S4 Avant

Alf McQueef wrote:

They also allude to the "sub M" group test of C43, XE S, S4, and 340i that I have wanted them to do for some time, these are often the real-world performance heroes for people who use the car a decent amount as a daily driver, not just poncing about in town centres (which is where I see most newish full fat sports models!!).


Yes, this type of thing appeals to me. Real world performance of a 335i/340i is I'm sure sufficient compared to an M Model, and less scope for big bills.
JohnC

I read that too and thought it sounded a really good car. Typical EVO though: they are only happy when a car is hard edged all the way which for a daily driver can be rather tiring.

I like what I read about the C43.
Tim

No doubt they'll be disappointed if it doesn't get to 100 in under 10 seconds too  
Martin

I liked the sound of it too, good mix of performance and comfort along with a decent interior is very appealing to me.  Like John, I really like the idea of the C43 as well.  On paper / showroom appeal, both are ahead of the 340i imo.
PhilD

JohnC wrote:
I read that too and thought it sounded a really good car. Typical EVO though: they are only happy when a car is hard edged all the way which for a daily driver can be rather tiring.

.


or what they actually say is:

"I’m not suggesting it should be crashy and edgy but a small increase in body control and turn-in response, a bit more volume for the exhaust and sharper gearshifts would transform the car"

simonp

What's the difference, engine-wise, between a C43 and an A45?

(I'm fully expecting the answer to make the model numbering laughable)
JohnC

simonp wrote:
What's the difference, engine-wise, between a C43 and an A45?

(I'm fully expecting the answer to make the model numbering laughable)


C43 is a 3 litre 6 cylinder twin turbo with about the same HP as the 2 litre mega turbo A45
Sav

There are three things that would initially put me off the C43 - weight, price and some styling cues. 1700 KG + for a mid-sized Coupe – the Audi S5 proves that a 4WD Coupe can be lighter. It starts at 46K, it needs to be better than a 340i considering that most will be over 50K – and over 53k is where lightly used C63’s become tempting. I really don’t like the chintzy “diamond” grill, that would be a no-no for me.

It appears that BMW will launch an M340i for the next generation 3-Series. I am surprised BMW haven’t launched an M Performance 3-Series already, considering the M135i and M235i were launched, plus with Mercedes launching a range of semi-AMG models.
gooner

JohnC wrote:
simonp wrote:
What's the difference, engine-wise, between a C43 and an A45?

(I'm fully expecting the answer to make the model numbering laughable)


C43 is a 3 litre 6 cylinder twin turbo with about the same HP as the 2 litre mega turbo A45


Well duh! You'd have to be a right idiot not to work that out!

The C43 does sound like a great alternative to the C63 that will give most of the thrills a competent driver could ever deal with whilst not being too hardcore for daily use. Given how many S4/5's I see about I'm surprised Mercedes have waited so long to follow suit.
simonp

I'm wondering if Audi will stick the Titty Arse engine in a facelifted RS3? That would be my choice. Practical small hatch that goes like a cat with mustard on its ring piece. The current one does 0-60 in 3.6 secs (evo's claim), so those extra 30 odd horsies should add a little extra spice to the recipe.
Alf McQueef

I loved the C43 idea when it was announced (mainly because I like the current C, especially inside) but have seen nothing since, sounds like there is more info out now, I'll take a look.

The RS3 is a lovely looking thing and with the 5 pot engine really different as well, its such a shame that every review seems to be typical RS Audi - incredibly harsh ride and dull to drive too. Thats what was so different about this S4 review - genuinely good ride quality, and suppleness, like the B7 RS4 and R8 heyday...
Martin

Sounds like it doesn't have the same level of comfort as the S4 unless they soften up the saloon / estate.

http://www.evo.co.uk/mercedes/c-c...ew-how-does-the-entry-level-amg-c
simonp

Can't actually order a new RS3 now, it was removed from the books when the A3 facelift was announced. There are a few no miles ones kicking about, but you'd be at the mercy of whoever specced it. Not the sort of motor I'd wanna be buying used!
Tim

simonp wrote:
Can't actually order a new RS3 now, ....... Not the sort of motor I'd wanna be buying used!


Why not?
You can't use all the performance most of the time so the chances of it having been thrashed mercilessly are minimal.
I suppose it's one of those cars where you might be worried about unwanted nocturnal visitors though?
simonp

I can imagine people showing off the launch control to everyone they know. 0-60 in 3.6 must be a fun thing to do with your friends!



You, the second owner, then get a problem with it, take it to dealer and they say the transmission has taken a right beating...

PhilD

I'm sure Audi can plug something in to tell them if anyone has encountered 12th at a set of lights...
PG

Ignoring the cars' credentials for a moment, depreciation is a huge factor in lease costs for cars like this.

I think that Audi S models have always had a good following as RS-lite style models. Which has led to good demand and higher residuals. Whereas Merc have always been known the full fat AMG models and then the rest. so I can't see a C43 as being an attractive an option lease / PCP wise as I do not think the cachet is there yet.
JohnC

I specced up a C43 Estate to my liking and got about £51K but a quick check of the Mercedes used cars showed delivery mileage or less than 3,000 miles C63 Estates for £53K which is about £16K off list!

Big petrols it would appear are still not a good idea new but the above might indicate that a pre registered/demo C43 could be had for low to mid £40K's very shortly.
Alf McQueef

Martin wrote:
Sounds like it doesn't have the same level of comfort as the S4 unless they soften up the saloon / estate.

http://www.evo.co.uk/mercedes/c-c...ew-how-does-the-entry-level-amg-c


That does not sound hugely hopeful for what I would want. I tend to like cars a bit softer than road testers do, I like to feel a bit of roll and it helps judge where you are with the grip sometimes, and how hard you are going.
Nice Guy Eddie

JohnC wrote:
I specced up a C43 Estate to my liking and got about £51K but a quick check of the Mercedes used cars showed delivery mileage or less than 3,000 miles C63 Estates for £53K which is about £16K off list!

Big petrols it would appear are still not a good idea new but the above might indicate that a pre registered/demo C43 could be had for low to mid £40K's very shortly.


You should be able to secure at least a 6k discount off a new C43 according to the online brokers.
JohnC

Alf McQueef wrote:
Martin wrote:
Sounds like it doesn't have the same level of comfort as the S4 unless they soften up the saloon / estate.

http://www.evo.co.uk/mercedes/c-c...ew-how-does-the-entry-level-amg-c


That does not sound hugely hopeful for what I would want. I tend to like cars a bit softer than road testers do, I like to feel a bit of roll and it helps judge where you are with the grip sometimes, and how hard you are going.


The only way to find out is a test drive!
Alf McQueef

JohnC wrote:
Alf McQueef wrote:
Martin wrote:
Sounds like it doesn't have the same level of comfort as the S4 unless they soften up the saloon / estate.

http://www.evo.co.uk/mercedes/c-c...ew-how-does-the-entry-level-amg-c


That does not sound hugely hopeful for what I would want. I tend to like cars a bit softer than road testers do, I like to feel a bit of roll and it helps judge where you are with the grip sometimes, and how hard you are going.


The only way to find out is a test drive!


It will be many years before they are down to prices I'd want to pay - and then I'll probably get another Jaguar!
Stuntman

Well they do say that once someone has formed a preference for one of the premium saloon car manufacturers, it takes a lot to shift them from it.

Best regards, a BMW driver
Alf McQueef

Stuntman wrote:
Well they do say that once someone has formed a preference for one of the premium saloon car manufacturers, it takes a lot to shift them from it.

Best regards, a BMW driver


I like BMW - they seem to be able to manage both good handing and a good ride, they are good to drive, and I liked the dealer - which also charged sensible money. However one big plus the Jaguar has - which appeals to an Alfa lover but many would not care - is the general sense of bonhomie it generates. The girls love it, car people love it, even polar bear-saving sandal wearers seem to struggle to criticise it, it just generates either good attention or none at all, and it's pretty under the radar for the performance - which is a good thing given the sorts of places I often park it!
Stuntman

I agree entirely.  And an XFR is certainly a very easy car to like, as well as to appreciate
Martin

I like the idea of the E43 more than the C43, similar performance thanks to more power and I'd be surprised if it wasn't more comfortable.  Nicer interior too as well as more space.
PG

Alf McQueef wrote:
..However one big plus the Jaguar has - which appeals to an Alfa lover but many would not care - is the general sense of bonhomie it generates. The girls love it, car people love it, even polar bear-saving sandal wearers seem to struggle to criticise it, it just generates either good attention or none at all, and it's pretty under the radar for the performance - which is a good thing given the sorts of places I often park it!


Very true. The XFR is the only car I've had that elicits interest at petrol stations, even down to lady cashiers saying it looks very nice.

On the M5 a few months ago an F-Type parked on the opposite side of the pumps to me and we chatted as we filled the cars. Seems he preferred his previous XFR to his new F Type S.

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