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Twelfth Monkey

Ev-oh...

I'm not sure whether my reaction to this month's evo actually means anything, but when I flicked through it I couldn't help feeling rather distant from it all.  I'll try to explain:

- Another Boxster variant in Radar.  Plus a car being described as a 'killer' of something or other.

- Another 911 Turbo, continuing the trend of getting ever-faster but ever less relevant at real-world speeds.  It's short or real world involvement at sane speeds but still gets five stars - as is the evo way.

- The Praga R1R, a race car for the road.  I'm glad that such things exist, but jeez you'd look a dickhead driving one, and I find it's hard not to feel a bit 'so what'.

- There are aftermarket tunings, as there always are.

- Focus RS sounds great, but do I have the slightest urge to drive one?  Nope.

- Yet another Pagani.  Again I'm glad they exist, but they seem pretty irrelevant to me.  Track car of the year feels similar.

- Lots of overpriced expensive used cars for sale.

Maybe it's my age, and I know I'll read almost all of the above, but the bits that interest me most are bits about older cars such as this month's on the Corrado VR6.
simonp

I gave up on it a few years ago because it is only a rich man's car catalogue punctuated by a bunch of adverts. It's a shame Performance Car died and evo lived if you ask me...
him

simonp wrote:
I gave up on it a few years ago because it is only a rich man's car catalogue punctuated by a bunch of adverts. It's a shame Performance Car died and evo lived if you ask me...

I agree, though only recently gave it up...

Dan Prosser was the final straw for me!  
gooner

him wrote:
simonp wrote:
I gave up on it a few years ago because it is only a rich man's car catalogue punctuated by a bunch of adverts. It's a shame Performance Car died and evo lived if you ask me...

I agree, though only recently gave it up...

Dan Prosser was the final straw for me!  


I still like Meadon, Porter and Franchittis columns, but agree they have overlooked how comically overpowered some of the top end cars are for real driving conditions.
PhilD

Nice Guy Eddie

Evos still got it, it's you boys that are getting old.

The RS sounds game changing, I'd love to have a go in one. Who doesn't want a drift mode to cheer up the daily commute.

What about the Alpine if you don't want mega speed. Franchitti and meadens Columns are fab. What's not to like about the M2 or did you decide to ignore that. Track car of the year is always an interesting read and the mix of machinery couldn't be better. Fast fleets a bit of con admittedly with Trott giving free column inches to anyone who wants to fix his Porsches on the cheap but for me it's still the standout monthly.

Maybe your more what car nowadays. It happens to a lot of good people.
Blarno

Aside from freak moments of boredom whilst on holiday, I've not bought EVO in 10 years. The heroic wheelsmith writing style of its hacks does nothing for me. Then again, I've given up on all motoring magazines nowadays. I get all the info I need from here or the internet. I'm a million miles away from the target demographic of any new car, so I have no real interest in reading about them in a magazine.
Martin

Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
Evos still got it, it's you boys that are getting old.

The RS sounds game changing, I'd love to have a go in one. Who doesn't want a drift mode to cheer up the daily commute.

What about the Alpine if you don't want mega speed. Franchitti and meadens Columns are fab. What's not to like about the M2 or did you decide to ignore that. Track car of the year is always an interesting read and the mix of machinery couldn't be better. Fast fleets a bit of con admittedly with Trott giving free column inches to anyone who wants to fix his Porsches on the cheap but for me it's still the standout monthly.

Maybe your more what car nowadays. It happens to a lot of good people.


+1 to everything, I'd even quite like a go in an RS, although I couldn't buy one.

I enjoy reading Evo and do so cover to cover every month.  My Dad still passes Autocar on and I flick through most in 5-10mins and stick them in the recycling, I'm not interested in reading about 'ordinary' cars.

When I'm in the market for something, I make my own shortlist and have a proper test drive, I wouldn't be swayed by a journalists opinion, which is rarely consistent, especially over time.  Take the M4, most mags have very mixed reviews on it, Harris thinks it's fabulous...the only way to,find out would be try it.

I enjoy reading about cars I won't be able to drive let alone buy, Evo does that very well. Not as well as they used to admittedly, but still better than the other mags.
Frank Bullitt

Blarno wrote:
Aside from freak moments of boredom whilst on holiday, I've not bought EVO in 10 years. The heroic wheelsmith writing style of its hacks does nothing for me.


+1

Occasionally I pick up a copy, then regret it.
Big Blue

I've never read a line of EVO so I can't comment but overall I'm finding modern cars to be so efficient that if you're buying anything more powerful than a BMW 320 you're just wasting your time. You can argue how well your Porsche/RS Audi/ M-car/AMG handles/accelerates/goes round the 'Ring but you are never going to get it to make you look like a Touring car driver when going point to point on a public road vs said 320.

There's no space, other traffic, laws, obstacles etc. so no matter what you're thrashing across country in, or on (make no mistake, my R1 is as pointless as a Ferrari when I could do as much on a CBR250) you're doing it for some other reason than "need". If you drive for "need" get a VW golf or the 320. If you have some other requirement get something else.
gonnabuildabuggy

Big Blue wrote:
I've never read a line of EVO so I can't comment but overall I'm finding modern cars to be so efficient that if you're buying anything more powerful than a BMW 320 you're just wasting your time. You can argue how well your Porsche/RS Audi/ M-car/AMG handles/accelerates/goes round the 'Ring but you are never going to get it to make you look like a Touring car driver when going point to point on a public road vs said 320.

There's no space, other traffic, laws, obstacles etc. so no matter what you're thrashing across country in, or on (make no mistake, my R1 is as pointless as a Ferrari when I could do as much on a CBR250) you're doing it for some other reason than "need". If you drive for "need" get a VW golf or the 320. If you have some other requirement get something else.


This ^ and I agree with the comments about Evo generally appearing like a supercar catalogue (others like CAR went that route to but are slowly coming back to a better balance of features).

I buy EVO occassionally when it's featuring something I really like or might buy and do enjoy it as a good read but it's too detached from my life to be a regular read.

Interesting to see a MK1 MX5 and MK2 GTi featured in the running reports though. I also enjoy any of the running reports on the older stuff such as their Porsches.

I've enjoyed Modern Classics which is bang on the kind of stuff I'd be looking at buying as a daily (and is close to stuff I've owned in the past), more so than the Classic Cars magazines which are about indulgent purchases.
Andy C

Martin wrote:
Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
Evos still got it, it's you boys that are getting old.

The RS sounds game changing, I'd love to have a go in one. Who doesn't want a drift mode to cheer up the daily commute.

What about the Alpine if you don't want mega speed. Franchitti and meadens Columns are fab. What's not to like about the M2 or did you decide to ignore that. Track car of the year is always an interesting read and the mix of machinery couldn't be better. Fast fleets a bit of con admittedly with Trott giving free column inches to anyone who wants to fix his Porsches on the cheap but for me it's still the standout monthly.

Maybe your more what car nowadays. It happens to a lot of good people.


+1 to everything, I'd even quite like a go in an RS, although I couldn't buy one.

I enjoy reading Evo and do so cover to cover every month.  My Dad still passes Autocar on and I flick through most in 5-10mins and stick them in the recycling, I'm not interested in reading about 'ordinary' cars.

When I'm in the market for something, I make my own shortlist and have a proper test drive, I wouldn't be swayed by a journalists opinion, which is rarely consistent, especially over time.  Take the M4, most mags have very mixed reviews on it, Harris thinks it's fabulous...the only way to,find out would be try it.

I enjoy reading about cars I won't be able to drive let alone buy, Evo does that very well. Not as well as they used to admittedly, but still better than the other mags.


+1 although I still get autocar delivered

It's not just the cars I like reading about, the photography is pretty special too
Bob Sacamano

Reading Evo is like reading Playboy. You're unlikely to ride in the models depicted but you appreciate the effort someone has gone to photographing them and writing about them.
PhilD

Bob Sacamano wrote:
reading Playboy


franki68

I'm not a fan and buy it only when they have any articles about a cat that is interesting to me.
I think the comments that it is covering stuff that is irrelevant to virtually everyone but a handful of people is true,but surely as a performance car magazine that is what they are there to do.
If you have no interest in performance cars ,then buy what car ,if on the other hand you enjoy reading about and maybe dreaming about driving some of the stuff they write about then there is little alternative.

My objections are to the heroic driving they seem to refer to ,and car that goes sideways at will being seen as more desirable than a car that will under steer,yet in the real world on real roads do you really want a car going side  ways all the time ?
The articles
are written as though most of us live in the country try side and have a race track a couple of miles away with a infinite supply of free
Twelfth Monkey

We enter the world of the single entendre!  Bob mentions Playboy and you start on about 'cat' that interests you, eh?
simonp

I do have an interest in performance cars, it's just that I don't see any need to pay a fiver for some bits of paper with pictures and words on them about the same. All the info required is out there on the internet and you can get sounds included. If any annoying Queefery creeps in, just change the channel.
franki68

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
We enter the world of the single entendre!  Bob mentions Playboy and you start on about 'cat' that interests you, eh?


Curse iPhones and their slightly too small for my fingers keyboards.
franki68

simonp wrote:
I do have an interest in performance cars, it's just that I don't see any need to pay a fiver for some bits of paper with pictures and words on them about the same. All the info required is out there on the internet and you can get sounds included. If any annoying Queefery creeps in, just change the channel.


That's a general issue with print anyway surely ? You can get everything you need through other media now.
Bob Sacamano

franki68 wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
We enter the world of the single entendre!  Bob mentions Playboy and you start on about 'cat' that interests you, eh?


Curse iPhones and their slightly too small for my fingers keyboards.


I must admit I gave the pussy reference a double take too.
BeN

I've never been a fan of Evo, so there.

Having been on the other side, I do get an idea of what it's like. There are serious stuff for serious people (What Car), then there are Evo and TG mag, which are there purely for entertainment. And like most entertainment they don't always suit everyone's tastes.

Perhaps what I liked about older car mags (like 90s era Car and Autocar) is that they used to contain actual stories that were comparable to a good work of fiction. A road trip here, an insightful interview there, or even stories about car culture. These were probably what inspired me to want to do what I do.

Trust me, it's not all about bragging who can do the best tailslide in a Jaguar F-Type.
Tim

I had the same reaction as Simon but I know I'll read all of it.

After driving around in the strong winds of a week or two ago I wondered what had happened to objective motoring journalism, my 320 estate is utterly awful in anything stronger than the equivalent of a moderate fart but I've never read a thing about it. It brought to mind the many stories in the press (not all in What Car either!) when the Sierra first came out
Boxer6

Tim wrote:

After driving around in the strong winds of a week or two ago I wondered what had happened to objective motoring journalism, my 320 estate is utterly awful in anything stronger than the equivalent of a moderate fart but I've never read a thing about it. It brought to mind the many stories in the press (not all in What Car either!) when the Sierra first came out


Surely there can be NUSSINK WRONG mit der BMW!!

It must be the Verdammt Englischer Autofahrer!!

(Can't remember the German for Scottish - probably Scottische!!   )
Tim

Boxer6 wrote:
Tim wrote:

After driving around in the strong winds of a week or two ago I wondered what had happened to objective motoring journalism, my 320 estate is utterly awful in anything stronger than the equivalent of a moderate fart but I've never read a thing about it. It brought to mind the many stories in the press (not all in What Car either!) when the Sierra first came out


Surely there can be NUSSINK WRONG mit der BMW!!

It must be the Verdammt Englischer Autofahrer!!

(Can't remember the German for Scottish - probably Scottische!!   )


It's ok I'm a half-caste (am I allowed to say that nowadays?)
The car is by far the worst I've ever driven in windy conditions.

On the subject of EVO I've read all the articles apart from the track car of the year one - I got through the first paragraph of that and was bored so gave up.

The M2 test intrigues me because the car has a lot of M3/4 parts - basic engine, both axles - yet its apparently much, much better.
The bit that gets me is that for the last 9 months or so I've seen an M4 every morning and evening commuting in the opposite direction from me and its always being driven - the impression from the mags is that on a slippery wintry road the car should be in a field.
However, and I think the Pagani article might make reference to this in reverse, I reckon that M4 driver will be like most people who have something powerful - they keep the stability control switched firmly ON thus allowing the car to be driven energetically within the skill level of the driver.
That's certainly my own experience with the M5, the TCS has only been off a handful of times in nearly 9 years, usually just to barbecue the back tyres.

Now you're all going to say you switch it off on a daily basis aren't you  
Martin

They've not driven the M2 on a wet UK road yet, so we'll have to wait and see, but I suspect it will be great as long as you've not switched everything off and think you're a driving god.    Chris Harris is running a long term M4 at the moment which he thinks is fantastic and a big improvement on the old model.  He says you need to bit a bit sensible in the wet (leaving the ESP on), but doesn't think that's an issue.  He's not said it's frightening or dangerous as I've read elsewhere.    

I love the look of the M2 from the front/side, but the rear isn't good and (without having driven it of course) I can't get my head around spending nearly £50k on a 2 series.   I'd much rather have a lightly used Cayman GTS or M4 (with full merino leather).
Tim

I can't get my head round the price OR the weight!
About 1500kgs I think.
Martin

Just had a look and it's 1595kg with the DCT gearbox, the M3 is 1635kg.
Nice Guy Eddie

The M3 is clocked in Carbon Fibre panels where the M2 isn't hence the similar weights.

I have no idea how you spec cars so fully MArtin but theres no need to spend 50k on a 2 series. I've struggled to get past 45k and if you can show me a decently speced Cayman GTS for that money I'd be all over it.
PhilD

M2 also quite big. 2 Series appeared on my street recently and my initial thought was that the 4 had had a facelift.

Edit: Google says as big as E46 Coupe
Big Blue

Martin wrote:
   Chris Harris is running a long term M4 at the moment which he thinks is fantastic and a big improvement on the old model.  He says you need to bit a bit sensible in the wet (leaving the ESP on), but doesn't think that's an issue.  He's not said it's frightening or dangerous as I've read elsewhere.    


This sounds more like a sensible take on what is a very high powered car. Like my R1, no road user will ever get anywhere near the limits of an M3 / M4's capability unless they have previously been lobotomised.

Note also: be careful how you do TLGP in a 280BHP RWD Alpina in the wet; you don't get very far at all if you just opt for kickdown  
Martin

Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
The M3 is clocked in Carbon Fibre panels where the M2 isn't hence the similar weights.

I have no idea how you spec cars so fully MArtin but theres no need to spend 50k on a 2 series. I've struggled to get past 45k and if you can show me a decently speced Cayman GTS for that money I'd be all over it.


Need and want are different  

I'm not sure how you've struggled to get past £45k, when the list price is £44.  You're not trying!  I've just configured one to the spec I would want (which isn't just ticking everything, honestly...) and got to £50,555 with the DCT gearbox, which would be £48,050 as a manual.   A standard M4 is £51,151 on Broadspeed or £56,600 in my spec.

You're right, a GTS would be a fair bit more (£60k), but worth it imho.  What about a decent spec S?
Tim

Martin wrote:
Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
The M3 is clocked in Carbon Fibre panels where the M2 isn't hence the similar weights.

I have no idea how you spec cars so fully MArtin but theres no need to spend 50k on a 2 series. I've struggled to get past 45k and if you can show me a decently speced Cayman GTS for that money I'd be all over it.


Need and want are different  

I'm not sure how you've struggled to get past £45k, when the list price is £44.  You're not trying!  I've just configured one to the spec I would want (which isn't just ticking everything, honestly...) and got to £50,555 with the DCT gearbox, which would be £48,050 as a manual.   A standard M4 is £51,151 on Broadspeed or £56,600 in my spec.

You're right, a GTS would be a fair bit more (£60k), but worth it imho.  What about a decent spec S?


Or for £10k less than an M2 you could get a Mustang.
It'll be far more exclusive and will never be confused with a puny 1.4 litre turbo version that's been 'up' wheeled and 'up' badged (i.e. M badges applied inappropriately).
PhilD

Tim wrote:


Or for £10k less than an M2 you could get a Mustang.
It'll be far more exclusive and will never be confused with a puny 1.4 litre turbo version.


No, it would be the 2.3 litre turbo version

Tim

Well, yes but that still has around 300BHP.
If you bought an M2 most people might assume it was the base model but with big wheels.
PhilD

its got a much wider track no?
Giant

Tim wrote:
Well, yes but that still has around 300BHP.
If you bought an M2 most people might assume it was the base model but with big wheels.


Why give two fucks what other people think?
Martin

Giant wrote:
Tim wrote:
Well, yes but that still has around 300BHP.
If you bought an M2 most people might assume it was the base model but with big wheels.


Why give two fucks what other people think?


Exactly!

Trying not to say anything about badges...
Tim

Martin wrote:
Giant wrote:
Tim wrote:
Well, yes but that still has around 300BHP.
If you bought an M2 most people might assume it was the base model but with big wheels.


Why give two fucks what other people think?


Exactly!

Trying not to say anything about badges...


Good point Giant.
Why spend £10k extra on the BM then  
Nice Guy Eddie

Because it'll run rings around a mustang
Thomas Magman

No one will be surprised to know that I still get Autocar and EVO and a fair few other mags too. CAR still interests me but I've generally given up on Top Gear mag.
It was a shame Performance Car mk2 died - probably my favourite mag ad it was more about cars I could afford than EVO - I'm watching to see how Modern Classics & Geman Classics go .....

I like the M2, same size as the Sapphire though and I wonder if it offers the same rear space.
I'm more likely to get a 125/135 coupe though - the Noddy car looks don't bother me as an owner of an E46 sawnoff  
I'd really like the 1M but just too much for my budget.

Like a few others, I'm more into some of the older stuff - I can't really relate to stuff I'll probably never drive and which would be too wide/unwieldy/ intimidating on roads round here ( an encounter with a Lambo in the Sierra last summer just seemed to re-affirm this )
Tim

Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
Because it'll run rings around a mustang


Maybe, if you're driving near flat out but do you ever actually do that - especially with over 300BHP?

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