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BeN

Euros

I know we're not really a set of football folks, but I'm sure some will have a bit of interest here...

Who's watching the Euros? Thoughts so far?

I've tried my best to watch as many games as I can, given that this is a landmark tournament (of sorts), and with plenty of new and interesting teams involved. Thus far though it seems everybody's being a bit cagey and conservative, with only three teams winning by more than one goal. Hopefully the goal count increases as we go on.

My underdog team is Iceland, and after that result yesterday I hope they do well.
Twelfth Monkey

Not a big football fan, but watching quite a bit of it.  Italy were a little fortunate in that they got a lot of deserved yellows for cynical fouls, and the degree to which the beeb seemed to want them to win was a little embarrassing.  As Ronald-o seems to me to be the very definition of arrogant footballist cuntery, I was delighted to see Iceland get a draw.

Not expecting great things of England.  The premier league has given the uk its surprise result this year, I think.


As it should be clear that I don't understand the context, what is a sort-of-landmark?
BeN

Twelfth Monkey wrote:

As it should be clear that I don't understand the context, what is a sort-of-landmark?


First time with 24 teams, and lots of supposedly 'smaller' countries gracing the tournament, with more than a few with a decent chance of doing well. Wales and Iceland being notable examples.
PG

BeN wrote:
First time with 24 teams, and lots of supposedly 'smaller' countries gracing the tournament, with more than a few with a decent chance of doing well. Wales and Iceland being notable examples.


I had not realised that. It is nice to see some new nations taking part.

I'm not watching much at all. I read about Ronaldo's anger at the 1-1 draw with Iceland and had to laugh.
JohnC

Ronaldo's antics just show him up to be a spoilt prima dona.

You can't criticise the opposition for playing in a way that stopped you scoring! What does he think the game is about? Both sides scored and neither team could break the other down enough to get a second goal.

I reckon Ronaldo just wishes he was born Italian or Spanish so that he had team mates around him who could help him shine. Great player that he is, he is only able to operate if he has great support too. He isn't good enough to make the rest of the team shine.

Well done Iceland and grow up Ronaldo.
PhilD

Hadn't seen the Ronaldo reaction, what an absolute plonker.

"Iceland, appearing in their first major tournament, boast a population of just 330,000 and are the smallest nation to play at a European Championship finals.

They finished second in their qualifying group, above Turkey and the Netherlands, who failed to make it to France"


As long as they don't flout the rules they can play in what ever way they want, and why the hell shouldn't they celebrate a draw against a top team like Portugal?
franki68

JohnC wrote:
Ronaldo's antics just show him up to be a spoilt prima dona.

You can't criticise the opposition for playing in a way that stopped you scoring! What does he think the game is about? Both sides scored and neither team could break the other down enough to get a second goal.

I reckon Ronaldo just wishes he was born Italian or Spanish so that he had team mates around him who could help him shine. Great player that he is, he is only able to operate if he has great support too. He isn't good enough to make the rest of the team shine.

Well done Iceland and grow up Ronaldo.


He's good enough to pretty much single handedly get them through qualification for the euros and World Cup.They probably are too reliant on him so if he has an off day they are buggered.
gooner

franki68 wrote:
JohnC wrote:
Ronaldo's antics just show him up to be a spoilt prima dona.

You can't criticise the opposition for playing in a way that stopped you scoring! What does he think the game is about? Both sides scored and neither team could break the other down enough to get a second goal.

I reckon Ronaldo just wishes he was born Italian or Spanish so that he had team mates around him who could help him shine. Great player that he is, he is only able to operate if he has great support too. He isn't good enough to make the rest of the team shine.

Well done Iceland and grow up Ronaldo.


He's good enough to pretty much single handedly get them through qualification for the euros and World Cup.They probably are too reliant on him so if he has an off day they are buggered.


Same as Sweden are with Zlatan then.
PhilD

franki68 wrote:
JohnC wrote:
Ronaldo's antics just show him up to be a spoilt prima dona.

You can't criticise the opposition for playing in a way that stopped you scoring! What does he think the game is about? Both sides scored and neither team could break the other down enough to get a second goal.

I reckon Ronaldo just wishes he was born Italian or Spanish so that he had team mates around him who could help him shine. Great player that he is, he is only able to operate if he has great support too. He isn't good enough to make the rest of the team shine.

Well done Iceland and grow up Ronaldo.


He's good enough to pretty much single handedly get them through qualification for the euros and World Cup.They probably are too reliant on him so if he has an off day they are buggered.


Not quite. Where as someone like Maradona could pick the ball up from anywhere on the pitch and go on to score Ronaldo generally needs service, so if he doesn't get it he doesn't score (as much)
franki68

gooner wrote:
franki68 wrote:
JohnC wrote:
Ronaldo's antics just show him up to be a spoilt prima dona.

You can't criticise the opposition for playing in a way that stopped you scoring! What does he think the game is about? Both sides scored and neither team could break the other down enough to get a second goal.

I reckon Ronaldo just wishes he was born Italian or Spanish so that he had team mates around him who could help him shine. Great player that he is, he is only able to operate if he has great support too. He isn't good enough to make the rest of the team shine.

Well done Iceland and grow up Ronaldo.




He's good enough to pretty much single handedly get them through qualification for the euros and World Cup.They probably are too reliant on him so if he has an off day they are buggered.


Same as Sweden are with Zlatan then.


did you see the sweden vs portugaL qualifier in 2013 ?
BeN

JohnC wrote:
Ronaldo's antics just show him up to be a spoilt prima dona.


Well, he is. That much we already know.

I'll be glad when Portugal gets knocked out and he can go back to Madrid, preening to his mirror. Same sentiments with Russia and their idiotic hooligan fans.
PhilD

BeN wrote:
JohnC wrote:
Ronaldo's antics just show him up to be a spoilt prima dona.


Well, he is. That much we already know.

I'll be glad when Portugal gets knocked out and he can go back to Madrid, preening to his mirror. Same sentiments with Russia and their idiotic hooligan fans.


Yes **cough cough** those countries with hooligans really are the worst.
JohnC

I was really pleased to see Russia get beaten and it gives England and Wales a great chance of progressing.

From what I saw of the violence, the English fans in the stadium just wanted to get away from the trouble which was very clearly instigated by the Russians. The English arrests were a few idiots outside who decided to throw things at the Police.
gooner

franki68 wrote:
gooner wrote:
franki68 wrote:
JohnC wrote:
Ronaldo's antics just show him up to be a spoilt prima dona.

You can't criticise the opposition for playing in a way that stopped you scoring! What does he think the game is about? Both sides scored and neither team could break the other down enough to get a second goal.

I reckon Ronaldo just wishes he was born Italian or Spanish so that he had team mates around him who could help him shine. Great player that he is, he is only able to operate if he has great support too. He isn't good enough to make the rest of the team shine.

Well done Iceland and grow up Ronaldo.




He's good enough to pretty much single handedly get them through qualification for the euros and World Cup.They probably are too reliant on him so if he has an off day they are buggered.


Same as Sweden are with Zlatan then.


did you see the sweden vs portugaL qualifier in 2013 ?


Nope, it was just a glib comment, based upon his superstar status. Back in 2013 I could have made a similar joke about the worlds greatest striker that was Nicolas Bendtner!
PhilD

Bendtner no doubt thinks he still is the world's greatest striker Gooner!
PhilD

PG wrote:
BeN wrote:
First time with 24 teams, and lots of supposedly 'smaller' countries gracing the tournament, with more than a few with a decent chance of doing well. Wales and Iceland being notable examples.


I had not realised that. It is nice to see some new nations taking part.



Can't say I'd noticed until you mentioned it!  

However I'm not sure you are right BeN if you think more teams gives the smaller countries more of a chance. Across the 6 groups there a couple of big teams and couple of smaller ones (E being the possible exception) so you would expect all the big teams to go through. When there were fewer groups some of the big teams would take each other out in the group stage making it easier for any minnow who did manage to get through. Maybe!
BeN

PhilD wrote:
PG wrote:
BeN wrote:
First time with 24 teams, and lots of supposedly 'smaller' countries gracing the tournament, with more than a few with a decent chance of doing well. Wales and Iceland being notable examples.


I had not realised that. It is nice to see some new nations taking part.



Can't say I'd noticed until you mentioned it!  

However I'm not sure you are right BeN if you think more teams gives the smaller countries more of a chance. Across the 6 groups there a couple of big teams and couple of smaller ones (E being the possible exception) so you would expect all the big teams to go through. When there were fewer groups some of the big teams would take each other out in the group stage making it easier for any minnow who did manage to get through. Maybe!


You would think that. We'll see I guess.

The Netherlands not qualifying was pretty hilarious for starters. And from what we've seen so far the big teams may not have it all their way. Nobody has really dominated so far and I won't be surprised if we see a few shocks still to come.
gooner

BeN wrote:
PhilD wrote:
PG wrote:
BeN wrote:
First time with 24 teams, and lots of supposedly 'smaller' countries gracing the tournament, with more than a few with a decent chance of doing well. Wales and Iceland being notable examples.


I had not realised that. It is nice to see some new nations taking part.



Can't say I'd noticed until you mentioned it!  

However I'm not sure you are right BeN if you think more teams gives the smaller countries more of a chance. Across the 6 groups there a couple of big teams and couple of smaller ones (E being the possible exception) so you would expect all the big teams to go through. When there were fewer groups some of the big teams would take each other out in the group stage making it easier for any minnow who did manage to get through. Maybe!


You would think that. We'll see I guess.

The Netherlands not qualifying was pretty hilarious for starters. And from what we've seen so far the big teams may not have it all their way. Nobody has really dominated so far and I won't be surprised if we see a few shocks still to come.


Worth remembering that a few years back Greece shocked the footballing world by winning Euro 2004 and of course Leicester have just won the Premiership, so shocks can happen and giving the smaller teams an opportunity doesn't just mean that the big boys will walk all over them and knock them straight out the group stages.
PhilD

I get that Gooner, and remember the Greek side. It is the beauty of sport!

The question was whether the new format gives smaller teams more of a chance. It certainly gives the team and players the chance to gain experience at a major tournament, and we get to see players we wouldn't otherwise.

JohnC, sad to see the England fans are still running away from the Russians...
Twelfth Monkey

JohnC wrote:
I was really pleased to see Russia get beaten and it gives England and Wales a great chance of progressing.


As a Scot, should you be saying that in public?

 
franki68

PhilD wrote:
franki68 wrote:
JohnC wrote:
Ronaldo's antics just show him up to be a spoilt prima dona.

You can't criticise the opposition for playing in a way that stopped you scoring! What does he think the game is about? Both sides scored and neither team could break the other down enough to get a second goal.

I reckon Ronaldo just wishes he was born Italian or Spanish so that he had team mates around him who could help him shine. Great player that he is, he is only able to operate if he has great support too. He isn't good enough to make the rest of the team shine.

Well done Iceland and grow up Ronaldo.




He's good enough to pretty much single handedly get them through qualification for the euros and World Cup.They probably are too reliant on him so if he has an off day they are buggered.


Not quite. Where as someone like Maradona could pick the ball up from anywhere on the pitch and go on to score Ronaldo generally needs service, so if he doesn't get it he doesn't score (as much)


I suggest you watch any Ronaldo goal compilation to see how wrong that is.
ive seen him pick up the ball near his own penalty area and dribble past 5or 6 players and score (United vs Fulham last minute springs to mind) and I've seen him pick up the ball 40 yards from goal and rocket it into the top corner on a regular basis ,he is the biggest goals scoring threat I have ever seen.
His vanity and ego are off putting ,but he is an extraordinary footballer and Any football fan should be grateful that with him and messi we have currently two of the greatest players ever to enjoy.
PhilD

franki68 wrote:
PhilD wrote:
franki68 wrote:
JohnC wrote:
Ronaldo's antics just show him up to be a spoilt prima dona.

You can't criticise the opposition for playing in a way that stopped you scoring! What does he think the game is about? Both sides scored and neither team could break the other down enough to get a second goal.

I reckon Ronaldo just wishes he was born Italian or Spanish so that he had team mates around him who could help him shine. Great player that he is, he is only able to operate if he has great support too. He isn't good enough to make the rest of the team shine.

Well done Iceland and grow up Ronaldo.




He's good enough to pretty much single handedly get them through qualification for the euros and World Cup.They probably are too reliant on him so if he has an off day they are buggered.


Not quite. Where as someone like Maradona could pick the ball up from anywhere on the pitch and go on to score Ronaldo generally needs service, so if he doesn't get it he doesn't score (as much)


I suggest you watch any Ronaldo goal compilation to see how wrong that is.
ive seen him pick up the ball near his own penalty area and dribble past 5or 6 players and score (United vs Fulham last minute springs to mind) and I've seen him pick up the ball 40 yards from goal and rocket it into the top corner on a regular basis ,he is the biggest goals scoring threat I have ever seen.
His vanity and ego are off putting ,but he is an extraordinary footballer and Any football fan should be grateful that with him and messi we have currently two of the greatest players ever to enjoy.


Well if he can do it to the mighty Fulham...  

I've seen the 40 yard rockets and and the cutting in from the wing and beating a couple of players goals but can't recall a dribble from his own penalty area, I will google it!

I will wind back a little then and say he won't do well in a one man team, he still needs decent players around him. When you think you are the best player you tend to try too hard / hog the ball.

I guess we will find out soon enough!
JohnC

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
JohnC wrote:
I was really pleased to see Russia get beaten and it gives England and Wales a great chance of progressing.


As a Scot, should you be saying that in public?

 


I am a Scot and British. I have always supported any British team although Scotland would always come first. My Dad was in the British army and my son is in the Royal Marines. I don't understand the mindless hate of some which is directed at the English although I am sure many English don't appreciate how some of their actions and words can be seen as condescending and arrogant when viewed from a non English standpoint. But we all have to get along together which is the most important thing.
franki68

PhilD wrote:
franki68 wrote:
PhilD wrote:
franki68 wrote:
JohnC wrote:
Ronaldo's antics just show him up to be a spoilt prima dona.

You can't criticise the opposition for playing in a way that stopped you scoring! What does he think the game is about? Both sides scored and neither team could break the other down enough to get a second goal.

I reckon Ronaldo just wishes he was born Italian or Spanish so that he had team mates around him who could help him shine. Great player that he is, he is only able to operate if he has great support too. He isn't good enough to make the rest of the team shine.

Well done Iceland and grow up Ronaldo.




He's good enough to pretty much single handedly get them through qualification for the euros and World Cup.They probably are too reliant on him so if he has an off day they are buggered.


Not quite. Where as someone like Maradona could pick the ball up from anywhere on the pitch and go on to score Ronaldo generally needs service, so if he doesn't get it he doesn't score (as much)


I suggest you watch any Ronaldo goal compilation to see how wrong that is.
ive seen him pick up the ball near his own penalty area and dribble past 5or 6 players and score (United vs Fulham last minute springs to mind) and I've seen him pick up the ball 40 yards from goal and rocket it into the top corner on a regular basis ,he is the biggest goals scoring threat I have ever seen.
His vanity and ego are off putting ,but he is an extraordinary footballer and Any football fan should be grateful that with him and messi we have currently two of the greatest players ever to enjoy.


Well if he can do it to the mighty Fulham...  

I've seen the 40 yard rockets and and the cutting in from the wing and beating a couple of players goals but can't recall a dribble from his own penalty area, I will google it!

I will wind back a little then and say he won't do well in a one man team, he still needs decent players around him. When you think you are the best player you tend to try too hard / hog the ball.

I guess we will find out soon enough!


players like him and bale and messi and maradonna just need a decent defence ,it helps with better players around them but if you have Team that is hard to score against ,then these guys give you a chance of winning .
Don't think he can be compared to maradonna until he cheats his way to a winners medal or takes huge amounts of drugs.;)
PhilD

franki68 wrote:


players like him and bale and messi and maradonna just need a decent defence ,it helps with better players around them but if you have Team that is hard to score against ,then these guys give you a chance of winning .
Don't think he can be compared to maradonna until he cheats his way to a winners medal or takes huge amounts of drugs.;)


They might as well make it 5 a-side then  

I'd put Messi and Maradonna at a similar level and Ronaldo and Bale a rung lower. All amazing players though.
franki68

PhilD wrote:
franki68 wrote:


players like him and bale and messi and maradonna just need a decent defence ,it helps with better players around them but if you have Team that is hard to score against ,then these guys give you a chance of winning .
Don't think he can be compared to maradonna until he cheats his way to a winners medal or takes huge amounts of drugs.;)


They might as well make it 5 a-side then  

I'd put Messi and Maradonna at a similar level and Ronaldo and Bale a rung lower. All amazing players though.


I think we are lucky to have 2 of the best ever in ronaldo and messi playing at the same time,I ignore the egos and posturing  and just try to enjoy it tbh.
They will be both pass their peak shortly .
PhilD

franki68 wrote:
PhilD wrote:
franki68 wrote:


players like him and bale and messi and maradonna just need a decent defence ,it helps with better players around them but if you have Team that is hard to score against ,then these guys give you a chance of winning .
Don't think he can be compared to maradonna until he cheats his way to a winners medal or takes huge amounts of drugs.;)


They might as well make it 5 a-side then  

I'd put Messi and Maradonna at a similar level and Ronaldo and Bale a rung lower. All amazing players though.


I think we are lucky to have 2 of the best ever in ronaldo and messi playing at the same time,I ignore the egos and posturing  and just try to enjoy it tbh.
They will be both pass their peak shortly .


Can't see Ronaldo passing anything to be honest.
Andy C

Andy C

England need to drop sterling

Vardy ,  Sturridge need to play ,  and I'd like to see  wilshere (if fit )
franki68

PhilD wrote:
franki68 wrote:
PhilD wrote:
franki68 wrote:


players like him and bale and messi and maradonna just need a decent defence ,it helps with better players around them but if you have Team that is hard to score against ,then these guys give you a chance of winning .
Don't think he can be compared to maradonna until he cheats his way to a winners medal or takes huge amounts of drugs.;)


They might as well make it 5 a-side then  

I'd put Messi and Maradonna at a similar level and Ronaldo and Bale a rung lower. All amazing players though.


I think we are lucky to have 2 of the best ever in ronaldo and messi playing at the same time,I ignore the egos and posturing  and just try to enjoy it tbh.
They will be both pass their peak shortly .


Can't see Ronaldo passing anything to be honest.


😀 Especially mirrors ?
gooner

Andy C wrote:
England need to drop sterling

Vardy ,  Sturridge need to play ,  and I'd like to see  wilshere (if fit )


Agree, I don't see why Vardy don't start, he should have been ahead of Kane and Sterling given his form. Glad he did come on at half time though!
BeN

Well, how about that! What a great result for Northern Ireland! Very much deserved too.

And England did okay too I guess...
Giant

franki68 wrote:
PhilD wrote:
franki68 wrote:


players like him and bale and messi and maradonna just need a decent defence ,it helps with better players around them but if you have Team that is hard to score against ,then these guys give you a chance of winning .
Don't think he can be compared to maradonna until he cheats his way to a winners medal or takes huge amounts of drugs.;)


They might as well make it 5 a-side then  

I'd put Messi and Maradonna at a similar level and Ronaldo and Bale a rung lower. All amazing players though.


I think we are lucky to have 2 of the best ever in ronaldo and messi playing at the same time,I ignore the egos and posturing  and just try to enjoy it tbh.
They will be both pass their peak shortly .


Indeed, soon they will both be retired and the best players in the world will return to 'normal' level and we will realise how great those two were. I was lucky enough to see Ronaldo at Old Trafford a few times and hope to go to Barcelona for a game in the next season. These are players we will be eulogising to our grandkids like Pele, Maradonna and Best.
Big Blue

Cantona. Vision.

That's it for great footballers. That's one of those debates that no one will ever agree on. From an Arsenal point of view, I'm a Bergkamp in the Dennis vs Thierry argument and as far as players that made the most of what they had on and off the field Vinnie Jones takes some beating.

As for England, Stirling is yet another great bit of business from Liverpool following the off-loading of Torres on Chelsea with the sale of basically a loose collection of muscle and bone in a skin bag to some Arabs.
gooner

Big Blue wrote:
Cantona. Vision.

That's it for great footballers. That's one of those debates that no one will ever agree on. From an Arsenal point of view, I'm a Bergkamp in the Dennis vs Thierry argument and as far as players that made the most of what they had on and off the field Vinnie Jones takes some beating.

As for England, Stirling is yet another great bit of business from Liverpool following the off-loading of Torres on Chelsea with the sale of basically a loose collection of muscle and bone in a skin bag to some Arabs.


Yeah but they did rather waste a lot of that Torres money on Andy Carroll.

Agree on Stirling. Both him and Kane have to lose their starting place for the final game. They've both been highly dosappointing.
Roadsterstu

Football. Meh.
PhilD

BeN wrote:
Well, how about that! What a great result for Northern Ireland! Very much deserved too.

And England did okay too I guess...


I'd not picked up on how many third placed teams go through Ben so you are right, much more of a chance for the smaller teams.
gooner

PhilD wrote:
BeN wrote:
Well, how about that! What a great result for Northern Ireland! Very much deserved too.

And England did okay too I guess...


I'd not picked up on how many third placed teams go through Ben so you are right, much more of a chance for the smaller teams.


The top four out of the six third place teams go through so there's a lot of opportunity to get into the later stages of the competition.
Twelfth Monkey

Is it wrong to derive as much pleasure from Ronald-O's misfortunes as from England's win?*  Just a pity that his team probably needs very little to get through anyway because of the tournament structure...

*Entirely rhetorical question.  Of course it's not.
Big Blue

That penalty summed him up: he should've just whanged it but went for the ponce-shot. He needs to have learned what to do in the circumstances.
franki68

Big Blue wrote:
That penalty summed him up: he should've just whanged it but went for the ponce-shot. He needs to have learned what to do in the circumstances.


Odd because his style is all about athleticism and power ,he rarely places the ball ,it's always blasted like a cannon.
BeN

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Is it wrong to derive as much pleasure from Ronald-O's misfortunes as from England's win?*  Just a pity that his team probably needs very little to get through anyway because of the tournament structure...

*Entirely rhetorical question.  Of course it's not.


Not wrong at all. As I mentioned above, I hope he goes home early.
Twelfth Monkey

Was it just me, or did England never really look like scoring yesterday?  The goals against Wales felt like they had an element of good fortune with them, rather than the sort of purposeful attacking that I seem to recall seeing from Germany, Spain, Italy et al.

I think football(ers) will be coming home soon!
Bob Sacamano

The trouble is we've played against three teams who have parked the bus and most teams will struggle to create clear chances in those situations - unless you have a genius like Messi. Against teams that are trying to score against us I expect more space to open up at the back.
JohnC

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Was it just me, or did England never really look like scoring yesterday?  The goals against Wales felt like they had an element of good fortune with them, rather than the sort of purposeful attacking that I seem to recall seeing from Germany, Spain, Italy et al.

I think football(ers) will be coming home soon!


I agree. The way England are playing is the norm for a major tournament: field a team of good players but play them out of position and ask them to play in a different way to their normal weekly game. That is never going to produce the best results.

Mid field are playing too deep out of the fear of losing a goal and as a consequence the forwards aren't getting the service they need to score.

A team like Italy or Spain will find a way through and then England will be on the back foot chasing the game.

I'd much rather see an open and fast game where chances are created. At least then it is much harder to have regrets.
PhilD

Are we talking about the England team which created about 30 chances last night, or a different one?
franki68

PhilD wrote:
Are we talking about the England team which created about 30 chances last night, or a different one?


we never looked like scoring I thought,one or 2 good chances ,the rest were speculative efforts and half chances.

We are playing well though,just lacking some quality in the penalty area.

and they defended very well .
PhilD

franki68 wrote:
PhilD wrote:
Are we talking about the England team which created about 30 chances last night, or a different one?


we never looked like scoring I thought,one or 2 good chances ,the rest were speculative efforts and half chances.

We are playing well though,just lacking some quality in the penalty area.

and they defended very well .


I'd say that Clyne's chance (saved) Ali's (off the line), Llana's (saved) Vardy (saved) and Sturridge (airshot when clean through) were all good chances and if that isn't "looking like scoring" I don't know what is.
Martin

If it wasn't for Skrtel, the result would have been very different.  I thought England played well, but they weren't really put under any pressure.
PhilD

Martin wrote:
If it wasn't for Skrtel, the result would have been very different.  I thought England played well, but they weren't really put under any pressure.


there was one point where he had to go off after receiving treatment where I thought "attack now" but we passed it backwards and he was able to get back on and defend. I've not watched much premier league football over last few years but seems to be a class player.
Twelfth Monkey

It's probably fair to say that for the first passage of play we were unlucky, but after the Slovakians acclimatised, we started playing like boring old England and never looked like scoring after that.  Maybe that's fairer.

Now, what was I saying about Spain?  Maybe I'll stick to things I know the first thing about...

The Germans didn't exactly look invincible either.  But then they weren't really being attacked.  Was Neuer's name uttered at all once play commenced?  I had started to glaze over a bit.
franki68

PhilD wrote:
franki68 wrote:
PhilD wrote:
Are we talking about the England team which created about 30 chances last night, or a different one?


we never looked like scoring I thought,one or 2 good chances ,the rest were speculative efforts and half chances.

We are playing well though,just lacking some quality in the penalty area.

and they defended very well .


I'd say that Clyne's chance (saved) Ali's (off the line), Llana's (saved) Vardy (saved) and Sturridge (airshot when clean through) were all good chances and if that isn't "looking like scoring" I don't know what is.


We should have had 2 penalties as well,but regardless of chances I never felt England would score,meaning even if we got a chance we didn't look like we would convert it.
BeN

Pretty interesting how things have panned out so far. All the big teams are in the same side of the draw, and who would've expected Wales and both Irelands to all go through as well? Ditto Iceland and Hungary (ahead of Portugal too).

The Wales-Northern Ireland match-up should be something to look forward to I reckon.
simonp

That'll be the end of Woy's England tenure then. Pathetic performance. As usual.
Twelfth Monkey

I fail to see how the national team can fail so badly at every tournament.  Sounds like they hadn't done their collective homework and underestimated Iceland, but they were still comically uninspired and uninspiring.  I'm rooting for Belgium.
Boxer6

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
  I'm rooting for Belgium.


Me too. Only because I drew them in the office sweep though.
Martin

Terrible performance.

I had Spain in the office sweepstake so thought I had a really good chance.
JohnC

There was a gross lack of direction and commitment in that performance last night.
I think the whole setup has been about shutting up shop at the back and hoping to steal a goal here and there.
Iceland knew they couldn't beat England on skill level, man to man, so they played with commitment, passion and drive.

I would far rather see a game where they go for it but lose 2-1 than a game where they only look as though they care when they get into the last 10 minutes. Kane looked as though he was mentally shot to pieces by the pressure of being 2-1 down and just didn't relax and play the game. It was like me playing golf on a bad day: everything missed.
Bob Sacamano

Spent the night on ancestry.com - turns out I'm Welsh.

Back in the game!!
gonnabuildabuggy

Total lack of system and tactics.

Iceland played an 8 man defense so passing the ball around was never going to work, we needed to take men on.

We have players capable of doing that but none of them, except Rashford and occassionally Walker seemed to believe in themselves.

I also question Rooneys captaincy ability as a leader on the pitch.

I wish we'd played Portugal now as going out to them would be less embarassing
Big Blue

I think we need to re-set the England expectation. Just getting to the finals was an achievement based on how weak we look compared to Germany and Italy (which is apparently the worst side from Italy in living memory). We also went out at the same stage as the Holders, Spain so whether we think Iceland are weak or not is immaterial: they got to the knockout stages ahead of Portugal so they were hardly cannon fodder.

I've watched England play all my life, as most of us have. We are not a world class team and are not set up to be one. The Germans were gutted not winning in their own country and set about organising the national side to win the World Cup, the first N Hemisphere country to do so in S America. In England the game is too fractured and the Premier League has too much power. It's like Ice Hockey. Every year there is an Ice Hockey world championship and every year European national teams wait on their players to be released by the NHL to play (normally when they go out of the Stanley Cup). The USA, the country with the largest, richest hockey league, sends mainly college boys and new NHL intake to play. The NHL don't give a shit about the IIHF and the FA and the Premier League feel the same about UEFA and FIFA.

England would achieve so much more if they sent a team made up of Championship players to international tournaments. But of course the FA don't like the Football League either.

Like I said, if England make the next WC finals tournament it should be seen as a major success. That's the level of our international game.
PhilD

Big Blue wrote:


Like I said, if England make the next WC finals tournament it should be seen as a major success. That's the level of our international game.


I think  we should just pull out of international competitions and just play teams from the UK.
PhilD

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
 I'm rooting for Belgium.


With French and Italian family I'm still in it  
Roadsterstu

(Non footballist speaking here) At least we can celebrate it being 50 years since 1966. Fucking incredible. 50 years since that glorious win. 50 fucking years of nothing since. But, apparently, it being 50 years (and nothing since) is a big reason to celebrate....

Rant over!
Roadsterstu

PhilD wrote:
Big Blue wrote:


Like I said, if England make the next WC finals tournament it should be seen as a major success. That's the level of our international game.


I think  we should just pull out of international competitions and just play teams from small towns in the lower leagues.
Humphrey The Pug

Roadsterstu wrote:
(Non footballist speaking here) At least we can celebrate it being 50 years since 1966. Fucking incredible. 50 years since that glorious win. 50 fucking years of nothing since. But, apparently, it being 50 years (and nothing since) is a big reason to celebrate....

Rant over!


Non footballist here too; having a chat with my football fan colleague today, I tried to find out why at every tournament there seems to be this hype about England and then the inevitable massive let down and some seem surprised; I don't follow football and I seem to know that we will be a let down.

Also why oh why do people spend fortunes following them around the globe, only to be let down.

I really don't get it.
PhilD

Humphrey The Pug wrote:
Roadsterstu wrote:
(Non footballist speaking here) At least we can celebrate it being 50 years since 1966. Fucking incredible. 50 years since that glorious win. 50 fucking years of nothing since. But, apparently, it being 50 years (and nothing since) is a big reason to celebrate....

Rant over!


Non footballist here too; having a chat with my football fan colleague today, I tried to find out why at every tournament there seems to be this hype about England and then the inevitable massive let down and some seem surprised; I don't follow football and I seem to know that we will be a let down.

Also why oh why do people spend fortunes following them around the globe, only to be let down.

I really don't get it.


But you do get the things you are passionate about? things you love and devote a lot of time to but which some, maybe many, others don't share your passion for?
Humphrey The Pug

PhilD wrote:
Humphrey The Pug wrote:
Roadsterstu wrote:
(Non footballist speaking here) At least we can celebrate it being 50 years since 1966. Fucking incredible. 50 years since that glorious win. 50 fucking years of nothing since. But, apparently, it being 50 years (and nothing since) is a big reason to celebrate....

Rant over!


Non footballist here too; having a chat with my football fan colleague today, I tried to find out why at every tournament there seems to be this hype about England and then the inevitable massive let down and some seem surprised; I don't follow football and I seem to know that we will be a let down.

Also why oh why do people spend fortunes following them around the globe, only to be let down.

I really don't get it.


But you do get the things you are passionate about? things you love and devote a lot of time to but which some, maybe many, others don't share your passion for?


I get that, it's just the fans always seem to set themselves up for a massive disappointment.
Bob Sacamano

Humphrey The Pug wrote:


Non footballist here too; having a chat with my football fan colleague today, I tried to find out why at every tournament there seems to be this hype about England and then the inevitable massive let down and some seem surprised; I don't follow football and I seem to know that we will be a let down.

Also why oh why do people spend fortunes following them around the globe, only to be let down.

I really don't get it.


There isn't, there's no more realists than England fans. They do however enjoy going to tournaments with hope and optimism (otherwise why go?) but don't confuse this with England hyping themselves up. Unless you're Scottish of course, in which case you bang on about the arrogant English and celebrate their inevitable failure.
There's a theory that the word "schadenfreude" isn't German at all - it comes from Gaelic, meaning "we're even more shit than the English but we get to laugh at them more".
PhilD

Humphrey The Pug wrote:
PhilD wrote:
Humphrey The Pug wrote:
Roadsterstu wrote:
(Non footballist speaking here) At least we can celebrate it being 50 years since 1966. Fucking incredible. 50 years since that glorious win. 50 fucking years of nothing since. But, apparently, it being 50 years (and nothing since) is a big reason to celebrate....

Rant over!


Non footballist here too; having a chat with my football fan colleague today, I tried to find out why at every tournament there seems to be this hype about England and then the inevitable massive let down and some seem surprised; I don't follow football and I seem to know that we will be a let down.

Also why oh why do people spend fortunes following them around the globe, only to be let down.

I really don't get it.


But you do get the things you are passionate about? things you love and devote a lot of time to but which some, maybe many, others don't share your passion for?


I get that, it's just the fans always seem to set themselves up for a massive disappointment.


What do they say, it's the hope that kills you!

Seriously though we really should do better with the resources at our disposal. The players have been pretty inept but I feel the fault is with the management (note not manager). Look at the English rugby and cricket teams, or British cycling. Great management with a long term vision, passion and bravery  is what we need.
Big Blue

There is long term vision at the FA. It's just that it's based on club football not national football.
JohnC

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Unless you're Scottish of course, in which case you bang on about the arrogant English and celebrate their inevitable failure.


I must be the exception to the rule because I support any home team unless they are playing Scotland. I apologise for those who do otherwise.
tali

I said at the last dismal World Cup , Woy should have got the boot.
Needs to(or needed to) work on his PR at his lacklustre "Don't know what i am doing here"  post -mortem press Conference(s)
Roadrunner

An Englishman and a Scotsman walk into a bar. There is usually a Welshman as well, but he is still in France...
PhilD

Roadrunner wrote:
An Englishman and a Scotsman walk into a bar. There is usually a Welshman as well, but he is still in France...


Having a party by the looks of it!
BeN

I didn't watch the match but from what I gathered it was mostly a lack of commitment from the team rather than lack of quality.

Roy's tactics have been a bit questionable as well. What was Kane doing taking corners? Why is Rooney still playing when he is clearly ineffective and past his best? Sure you can just about get through qualifying with those sort of strategies, with 10 games or so to clinch your place, but when it really counts at big game tournament level England always get found out.

There's always a lot of talk about huge changes every time England exit a tournament in failure, but it's always been talk and no action. There's plenty that needs to be done, and can be improved on, but of course the Premier League is too concerned with earning billions to be bothered with actually helping the national team.

I'll be supporting Iceland now for the tournament. Hope they do well.
Bob Sacamano

Sod international football, I'm going back to the lower leagues and supporting Farmfoods FC.
Bob Sacamano

BeN wrote:
I didn't watch the match but from what I gathered it was mostly a lack of commitment from the team rather than lack of quality.

Roy's tactics have been a bit questionable as well. What was Kane doing taking corners? Why is Rooney still playing when he is clearly ineffective and past his best? Sure you can just about get through qualifying with those sort of strategies, with 10 games or so to clinch your place, but when it really counts at big game tournament level England always get found out.


I'll be supporting Iceland now for the tournament. Hope they do well.


We didn't "just about get through qualifying though"; we pissed it with the best record of any team and playing decent football.

There's a lot of "it was only Iceland" but that denigrates their players. They are all professional players, playing in some of Europe's top leagues and in qualifying they beat the Dutch - home and away, the Turks 3-0 and the Czech Republic. They're no mugs.
PhilD

Bob Sacamano wrote:
BeN wrote:
I didn't watch the match but from what I gathered it was mostly a lack of commitment from the team rather than lack of quality.

Roy's tactics have been a bit questionable as well. What was Kane doing taking corners? Why is Rooney still playing when he is clearly ineffective and past his best? Sure you can just about get through qualifying with those sort of strategies, with 10 games or so to clinch your place, but when it really counts at big game tournament level England always get found out.


I'll be supporting Iceland now for the tournament. Hope they do well.


We didn't "just about get through qualifying though"; we pissed it with the best record of any team and playing decent football.

There's a lot of "it was only Iceland" but that denigrates their players. They are all professional players, playing in some of Europe's top leagues and in qualifying they beat the Dutch - home and away, the Turks 3-0 and the Czech Republic. They're no mugs.


Do you think they have a chance against France? The obvious answer is no, but as you say their results have been pretty amazing for a while, they have confidence and everyone keeps writing them off.
Bob Sacamano

I think if Iceland defend deep like they did against us, don't give away any silly free kicks around the box, and try and hit France on the break, they have a chance.
PhilD

France do have the flair players to think "fuck this" beat a couple of men and stick it in the top corner. But so did the Dutch and Portugal. Lady luck will play a big part then I think.
BeN

Bob Sacamano wrote:
BeN wrote:
I didn't watch the match but from what I gathered it was mostly a lack of commitment from the team rather than lack of quality.

Roy's tactics have been a bit questionable as well. What was Kane doing taking corners? Why is Rooney still playing when he is clearly ineffective and past his best? Sure you can just about get through qualifying with those sort of strategies, with 10 games or so to clinch your place, but when it really counts at big game tournament level England always get found out.


I'll be supporting Iceland now for the tournament. Hope they do well.


We didn't "just about get through qualifying though"; we pissed it with the best record of any team and playing decent football.

There's a lot of "it was only Iceland" but that denigrates their players. They are all professional players, playing in some of Europe's top leagues and in qualifying they beat the Dutch - home and away, the Turks 3-0 and the Czech Republic. They're no mugs.


Yeah sure. England's only real meaningful opposition in qualifying were Switzerland. Once they were dismissed in the first game the rest of it was a cakewalk.

I think Iceland's results are a real demonstration of what can be done with limited resources, and lots of other (bigger and richer) countries could do very well to learn from their commitment to the cause.
Stuntman

Outstanding tonight from Wales.  Passion, commitment, skill and a couple of doses of luck when they were 2-1 up.   Thoroughly deserved!
gooner

Fantastic result. Really puts the England lads to shame. I really hope they can go all the way, it's definitely the year of the underdog.
Big Blue

Yeah, fuck me. Wales. Mr Wenger said before the tournament that they were the dark horse team: when will he get an Arsenal season so right again?

I met Coleman when he embarked on the Wales job and knew of him before through Alan Smith (not the Arsenal one, the Palace / Fulham one): pretty well knows what he wants from his team; knows how to organise them and is now at the point where he can afford to send them out on to the pitch each time and say "Just fucking enjoy it lads: this doesn't last forever but the memories will."

At least Aaron Ramsey's not injured thus far!
Bob Sacamano

Big Blue wrote:
Yeah, fuck me. Wales. Mr Wenger said before the tournament that they were the dark horse team: when will he get an Arsenal season so right again?

I met Coleman when he embarked on the Wales job and knew of him before through Alan Smith (not the Arsenal one, the Palace / Fulham one): pretty well knows what he wants from his team; knows how to organise them and is now at the point where he can afford to send them out on to the pitch each time and say "Just fucking enjoy it lads: this doesn't last forever but the memories will."

At least Aaron Ramsey's not injured thus far!


He is banned from the semi after picking up two yellow cards.
Twelfth Monkey

They played like you always hope England will play, but don't.

That video of them celebrating when England got shown the door isn't becoming though.  A distinct lack of professionalism at best, small-minded and childish at worst.
Bob Sacamano

Big Blue wrote:
Yeah, fuck me. Wales. Mr Wenger said before the tournament that they were the dark horse team: when will he get an Arsenal season so right again?

I met Coleman when he embarked on the Wales job and knew of him before through Alan Smith (not the Arsenal one, the Palace / Fulham one): pretty well knows what he wants from his team; knows how to organise them and is now at the point where he can afford to send them out on to the pitch each time and say "Just fucking enjoy it lads: this doesn't last forever but the memories will."

At least Aaron Ramsey's not injured thus far!


He is banned from the semi after picking up two yellow cards.
gooner

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Big Blue wrote:
Yeah, fuck me. Wales. Mr Wenger said before the tournament that they were the dark horse team: when will he get an Arsenal season so right again?

I met Coleman when he embarked on the Wales job and knew of him before through Alan Smith (not the Arsenal one, the Palace / Fulham one): pretty well knows what he wants from his team; knows how to organise them and is now at the point where he can afford to send them out on to the pitch each time and say "Just fucking enjoy it lads: this doesn't last forever but the memories will."

At least Aaron Ramsey's not injured thus far!


He is banned from the semi after picking up two yellow cards.


That's one rule I think they need to look at. I understand why it's in place but the referees have been quite card happy at times and with the extra teams they've added, you have to play 6 games in order to reach the final, which is quite a lot. There's a lot of opportunity to pick up yellow cards for reasonably innocuous tackles. I think the counter should be reset when your team reaches the knock out stages.
gonnabuildabuggy

Stuntman wrote:
Outstanding tonight from Wales.  Passion, commitment, skill and a couple of doses of luck when they were 2-1 up.   Thoroughly deserved!


totally. I thought the ref was favouring Belgium more but the decisions that mattered went our way  

Passion, Commitment and Teamwork. Everything Leicester showed too.

Pity England cant' manage that. Fortunately I can claim dual nationality so have been rooting for both teams all along.

Bale vs Ronaldo, it's going to be interesting, just a pity Ramsay will miss the game.
Bob Sacamano

gooner wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
Big Blue wrote:
Yeah, fuck me. Wales. Mr Wenger said before the tournament that they were the dark horse team: when will he get an Arsenal season so right again?

I met Coleman when he embarked on the Wales job and knew of him before through Alan Smith (not the Arsenal one, the Palace / Fulham one): pretty well knows what he wants from his team; knows how to organise them and is now at the point where he can afford to send them out on to the pitch each time and say "Just fucking enjoy it lads: this doesn't last forever but the memories will."

At least Aaron Ramsey's not injured thus far!


He is banned from the semi after picking up two yellow cards.


That's one rule I think they need to look at. I understand why it's in place but the referees have been quite card happy at times and with the extra teams they've added, you have to play 6 games in order to reach the final, which is quite a lot. There's a lot of opportunity to pick up yellow cards for reasonably innocuous tackles. I think the counter should be reset when your team reaches the knock out stages.


They did alter that rule a few years ago - single yellow cards are expunged after the quarter-finals.
BeN

I predict a Wales vs France final. From there anything can happen. Can Wales win the whole thing?
Grampa

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
They played like you always hope England will play, but don't.

That video of them celebrating when England got shown the door isn't becoming though.  A distinct lack of professionalism at best, small-minded and childish at worst.


Sadly it's the Welsh way in rugby to support any team playing England - I think this has just spilled over to football - wasn't surprising to anyone who lives in Wales.  You are of course quite right though.
Stuntman

Well they only have to win their next two games...

France's performance last night certainly put England's into perspective.  Looking forward to both semi-finals!
Bob Sacamano

I'm not buying the hype around France after last night. They were so vulnerable on set pieces Iceland should have had another couple of goals and I have no idea why Iceland decided to abandon their defensive system and play such a high line - it backfired spectacularly.
Stuntman

I agree on both counts.  Germany can exploit France's weaknesses.  However, France look good going forward and they won't want for support.
PhilD

Grampa wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
They played like you always hope England will play, but don't.

That video of them celebrating when England got shown the door isn't becoming though.  A distinct lack of professionalism at best, small-minded and childish at worst.


Sadly it's the Welsh way in rugby to support any team playing England - I think this has just spilled over to football - wasn't surprising to anyone who lives in Wales.  You are of course quite right though.


Doesn't bother me in the slightest that video, friendly rivalry is good.
woof woof

PhilD wrote:
Grampa wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
They played like you always hope England will play, but don't.

That video of them celebrating when England got shown the door isn't becoming though.  A distinct lack of professionalism at best, small-minded and childish at worst.


Sadly it's the Welsh way in rugby to support any team playing England - I think this has just spilled over to football - wasn't surprising to anyone who lives in Wales.  You are of course quite right though.


Doesn't bother me in the slightest that video, friendly rivalry is good.


The sight of the Welsh celebrating English demise made me think of If and for anyone who fancies a quick read I'll post it below to save a few seconds Googling.

Anyway, it made me think less of them and as I'd normally cheer Wales on as it's where my mothers family came from I was disappointed and in the unlikely event of them reading this... Grow Up.


IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
PhilD

PhilD wrote:
franki68 wrote:
PhilD wrote:
franki68 wrote:
JohnC wrote:
Ronaldo's antics just show him up to be a spoilt prima dona.

You can't criticise the opposition for playing in a way that stopped you scoring! What does he think the game is about? Both sides scored and neither team could break the other down enough to get a second goal.

I reckon Ronaldo just wishes he was born Italian or Spanish so that he had team mates around him who could help him shine. Great player that he is, he is only able to operate if he has great support too. He isn't good enough to make the rest of the team shine.

Well done Iceland and grow up Ronaldo.




He's good enough to pretty much single handedly get them through qualification for the euros and World Cup.They probably are too reliant on him so if he has an off day they are buggered.


Not quite. Where as someone like Maradona could pick the ball up from anywhere on the pitch and go on to score Ronaldo generally needs service, so if he doesn't get it he doesn't score (as much)


I suggest you watch any Ronaldo goal compilation to see how wrong that is.
ive seen him pick up the ball near his own penalty area and dribble past 5or 6 players and score (United vs Fulham last minute springs to mind) and I've seen him pick up the ball 40 yards from goal and rocket it into the top corner on a regular basis ,he is the biggest goals scoring threat I have ever seen.
His vanity and ego are off putting ,but he is an extraordinary footballer and Any football fan should be grateful that with him and messi we have currently two of the greatest players ever to enjoy.


Well if he can do it to the mighty Fulham...  

I've seen the 40 yard rockets and and the cutting in from the wing and beating a couple of players goals but can't recall a dribble from his own penalty area, I will google it!

I will wind back a little then and say he won't do well in a one man team, he still needs decent players around him. When you think you are the best player you tend to try too hard / hog the ball.

I guess we will find out soon enough!


And we found out Ronaldo is a different player these days (pretty much an out and out striker) and that's what Portugal needed all along. That finish against Hungary was sublime, the header against Wales majestic but the team coped magnificently without him last night, working hard as a unit and with other players stepping up to the plate.

Good article here about how his game has changed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36579430

Not surprised as Man U fan Franki that you are kidding yourself it's still 2008


Not the best tournament. John Motson summed it up well, great moments but not a great Tournament.

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