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Frank Bullitt

CitroŽn C3

Autoweakspress has doctored some images from the new C3 Rally Car;



http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/citr...-shapes-up-to-take-on-ford-fiesta

If it's even vaguely close then that is one good looking car.
Bob Sacamano

Bit of a puzzler that for me. Why go out of the way to build a new DS brand with its own styling and then go and make your new C3 look like it's a DS?
Giant

Im sure I read the other day that DS have no new models coming until 2020. If that's the case the brand could be dead before it's really started.

The image looks great, but Autocar say the C3 will be influenced by Cactus, and will definitely have airbumps.
Frank Bullitt

I think the airbumps are the side rubbing strips, I'm not sure all cars are planned to look as extreme as the Cactus.

DS has a number of new models planned over the next two years, the new DS3 (not the facelifted just released) is here next year and the DS4 and C4 based on the 308's chassis is supposed to be late next year - this underpins the next DS5 too, plus there is an SUV coming on the theme of a coupe (think X4 without the ham - fisted detailing!)
PhilD

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Bit of a puzzler that for me. Why go out of the way to build a new DS brand with its own styling and then go and make your new C3 look like it's a DS?


I'm mostly seeing Picasso meets Cactus.
Frank Bullitt

From the front but I agree with Bob, the rear is definitely DS3
PhilD

Frank Bullitt wrote:
From the front but I agree with Bob, the rear is definitely DS3


Oh yeah!
Martin

Frank Bullitt wrote:
plus there is an SUV coming on the theme of a coupe (think X4 without the ham - fisted detailing or a decent engine / performance!)


FYP

Slightly off topic....

We may be in the minority on this forum in being interesting in how cars perform, but that's where so many manufacturers miss out imho.  They produce decent looking cars that drive reasonably well and then saddle them with an overgeared and noisy small diesel, even at the top of the range.  I know most don't like the 2 series Active Tourer and I'd agree that a Cashcow or C4 Picasso look better, but it's growing on me (as far as that type of car will) and you can get one with a 230hp petrol, 190hp diesel or 224hp PHEV with a similar engine combination to an i8.
Andy C

Is this what people are calling attractive now ?
simonp

I'm certainly not...
Frank Bullitt

Martin wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:
plus there is an SUV coming on the theme of a coupe (think X4 without the ham - fisted detailing or a decent engine / performance!)


FYP

Slightly off topic....

We may be in the minority on this forum in being interesting in how cars perform, but that's where so many manufacturers miss out imho. †They produce decent looking cars that drive reasonably well and then saddle them with an overgeared and noisy small diesel, even at the top of the range. †I know most don't like the 2 series Active Tourer and I'd agree that a Cashcow or C4 Picasso look better, but it's growing on me (as far as that type of car will) and you can get one with a 230hp petrol, 190hp diesel or 224hp PHEV with a similar engine combination to an i8.


For many years CitroŽn did the original C4 Picasso with a 1.6THP 155bhp engine (not in the same league but probably comparably punchy at the time) but it wasn't very popular - you can the replacement unit, but it's 165bhp and auto only.  I'm surprised they don't offer the 2.0HDi 'Blue' in 180bhp tune either as they do for the DS models and Pug 308.

You could get the Pug 3008 with the Hybrid4 drivetrain which when combined gave 200bhp;

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201603101837773

Mechanically these are the same as C4 Picasso's, I'm surprised they never did one with the same drive train (even if it had a taller boot floor)
Giant

Frank Bullitt wrote:
I think the airbumps are the side rubbing strips, I'm not sure all cars are planned to look as extreme as the Cactus.

DS has a number of new models planned over the next two years, the new DS3 (not the facelifted just released) is here next year and the DS4 and C4 based on the 308's chassis is supposed to be late next year - this underpins the next DS5 too, plus there is an SUV coming on the theme of a coupe (think X4 without the ham - fisted detailing!)


Not sure where I got the 2020 thing from then!

If the C3 does look as above then it'll become the best looking supermini on sale IMO, quite a turnaround from the dumpy dull current one.
Frank Bullitt

Teaser sketch of the C4 saloon for the China market;

Bob Sacamano

^ to be honest that just looks like they've dug out the teaser sketches for the original C5.
Michael

Apart from the badge, that teaser sketch looks like a Golf.
PG

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Bit of a puzzler that for me. Why go out of the way to build a new DS brand with its own styling and then go and make your new C3 look like it's a DS?


Agreed. Although I think in this case the photos are just a photoshopped DS3.
simonp

Michael wrote:
Apart from the badge, that teaser sketch looks like a Golf.


I thought that looked like a VW, too. Also, it can't be a saloon, it only has two doors...
Frank Bullitt

simonp wrote:
Michael wrote:
Apart from the badge, that teaser sketch looks like a Golf.


I thought that looked like a VW, too. Also, it can't be a saloon, it only has two doors...



Michael

That's very obviously a Nova Coupe.
simonp

... and better looking than the car in post #1.
Frank Bullitt

simonp wrote:
... and better looking than the car in post #1.


Of course it is  
Bob Sacamano

I like the C3 rendering in the first post. The Fiesta is looking long in the tooth now, the Polo is dull, likewise the Corsa, no-one takes the 208 seriously..I still think the Clio edges it but this looks good too.
PhilD

Bob Sacamano wrote:
no-one takes the 208 seriously..


The French seem to like them! They seem smaller than the 207 somehow; I thought all cars were getting bigger?
gooner

PhilD wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
no-one takes the 208 seriously..


The French seem to like them! They seem smaller than the 207 somehow; I thought all cars were getting bigger?


I've seen a lot more 208s around than I have the latest Clio!
gonnabuildabuggy

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Bit of a puzzler that for me. Why go out of the way to build a new DS brand with its own styling and then go and make your new C3 look like it's a DS?


Might thought too. Surely this is a 5 door DS3?
Frank Bullitt

PhilD wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
no-one takes the 208 seriously..


The French seem to like them! They seem smaller than the 207 somehow; I thought all cars were getting bigger?


There are plenty around here too!

Weight wise the 208 is much lighter than the 207, 120-150kg typically, outside size wise it is about the same but interior it's much bigger - it almost passes the 'me behind me' test which for a supermini is incredible.

Mrs FB drove a Clio and 208 back to back and preferred the former on account of better steering feel (she felt the 208 was overly light at the wheel) although I was suprised that performance in the 0.9 12v turbo Clio felt slower than the 1.2 N/A 12v in the 208 despite the torque advantage
PhilD

Frank Bullitt wrote:
PhilD wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
no-one takes the 208 seriously..


The French seem to like them! They seem smaller than the 207 somehow; I thought all cars were getting bigger?


There are plenty around here too!

Weight wise the 208 is much lighter than the 207, 120-150kg typically, outside size wise it is about the same but interior it's much bigger - it almost passes the 'me behind me' test which for a supermini is incredible.

Mrs FB drove a Clio and 208 back to back and preferred the former on account of better steering feel (she felt the 208 was overly light at the wheel) although I was suprised that performance in the 0.9 12v turbo Clio felt slower than the 1.2 N/A 12v in the 208 despite the torque advantage


Purely going on sight the Clio looks bigger. Funny you should say that about 207 space, FIL has one and my GP is noticeably roomier.
Bob Sacamano

We live a mile from one of Newcastle's largest Peugeot dealers and I rarely see a 208 so I don't know where they are going. They are punting this "just fuel" deal they do which includes insurance and tax etc.
PG

Bob Sacamano wrote:
We live a mile from one of Newcastle's largest Peugeot dealers and I rarely see a 208 so I don't know where they are going. They are punting this "just fuel" deal they do which includes insurance and tax etc.


It just seems to me that every year PSA talk about going for premium and reducing discounts and all the usual "hope as a strategy" bollocks. And then after a few months, all the mega deals just come back so they can shift some metal.

However good or not the cars are, in the UK market they seem stuck in this position.
Humphrey The Pug

PG wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
We live a mile from one of Newcastle's largest Peugeot dealers and I rarely see a 208 so I don't know where they are going. They are punting this "just fuel" deal they do which includes insurance and tax etc.


It just seems to me that every year PSA talk about going for premium and reducing discounts and all the usual "hope as a strategy" bollocks. And then after a few months, all the mega deals just come back so they can shift some metal.

However good or not the cars are, in the UK market they seem stuck in this position.


Renault are like that to a degree too; although not in the same league as PSA, if someone is looking at a Clio and also a 208/C3, they will invariably choose the PSA car as the deals that can be had are just ridiculous, same with the Corsa too.

The problem with Renault is the push for 5% of the UK market, rather than sitting back and waiting for it to come gradually they rush for it and end up getting dealers to pre register cars; these are usually prime stock, Captur or Clio that would sell naturally but they panic, it will happen with Kadjar too, and this affects residuals.

The Retail group pre registered hundreds of Captur's recently and due to the deal that they got, we can't touch the prices that they are up for.
PG

Humphrey The Pug wrote:
The Retail group pre registered hundreds of Captur's recently and due to the deal that they got, we can't touch the prices that they are up for.


A way needs to be found to eliminate pre-registered cars from the market share and sales statistics. It just distorts the reality. And if they didn't count as "sales" and market share, manufactuers might be less inclined to do that. And just help dealers offer real customers better deals on new cars.
TreVoR

Change the registration system to hide the car's age.  You have a registration or multiple registrations allocated to you depending on your region like in Germany.
cbeaks1

There are private retail stats that (should) take out the self regs. There is still some anomalous stuff but not much.

If I get time I'll give you the March Ytd top 20.
Humphrey The Pug

If you pre register a car to a garage or manufacturer, strictly you are unable to sell it for 3 months, however many dealer groups don't bother with that rule, we pre register a few a month; less than 10 usually, however we register them to staff members so that they can be sold straight away.

I think that if a car is registered as a demo or courtesy car, it can be sold straightaway and also commercials can be sold straightaway too, no matter how they are registered.
Bob Sacamano

I thought with demos and courtesy cars you couldn't sell them for 3 months as the manufacturers give a discount on the price and don't allow it. That's how I remember Audi working anyway.
Martin

That's certainly how it used to be. †When we bought the 130i, we had to wait 4 weeks until it was 3 months old. †They promised to minimise it's use over the period and they stuck to their word, it hadn't done any more miles when we picked it up.
Humphrey The Pug

Bob Sacamano wrote:
I thought with demos and courtesy cars you couldn't sell them for 3 months as the manufacturers give a discount on the price and don't allow it. That's how I remember Audi working anyway.


With us I think it depends on how it is ordered, it is all very complicated; something to do with using specific "type" numbers when the order is placed on the system, this then generates differing support, depending on the "type" number.
Frank Bullitt

PG wrote:
Humphrey The Pug wrote:
The Retail group pre registered hundreds of Captur's recently and due to the deal that they got, we can't touch the prices that they are up for.


A way needs to be found to eliminate pre-registered cars from the market share and sales statistics. It just distorts the reality. And if they didn't count as "sales" and market share, manufactuers might be less inclined to do that. And just help dealers offer real customers better deals on new cars.


Evans Halshaw seem to have sorted it - they have deals set up with hire companies. Our DS4 was registered 30th June 2013 and bought by a hire company no doubt at a whopping discount and then sold on to motorpoint after 6-12 months. Evans Halshaw didn't have to register it in any way at all, the hire company may even be in their portfolio of businesses. I know the DS4 was being pushed Q2 2013 as they had loads of heavily incentivesed finance deals on offer at that time so clearly EH took a huge bonus that probably meant it was worth taking a hit on each car to get it shifted. At the time motorpoint had a whole pile of DS4's with the same registration date on the web (about 40 from memory), plus there were loads at CitroŽn dealers with number plates to suggest they had also been sold by Evans Halshaw.
Humphrey The Pug

Frank Bullitt wrote:
PG wrote:
Humphrey The Pug wrote:
The Retail group pre registered hundreds of Captur's recently and due to the deal that they got, we can't touch the prices that they are up for.


A way needs to be found to eliminate pre-registered cars from the market share and sales statistics. It just distorts the reality. And if they didn't count as "sales" and market share, manufactuers might be less inclined to do that. And just help dealers offer real customers better deals on new cars.


Evans Halshaw seem to have sorted it - they have deals set up with hire companies. Our DS4 was registered 30th June 2013 and bought by a hire company no doubt at a whopping discount and then sold on to motorpoint after 6-12 months. Evans Halshaw didn't have to register it in any way at all, the hire company may even be in their portfolio of businesses. I know the DS4 was being pushed Q2 2013 as they had loads of heavily incentivesed finance deals on offer at that time so clearly EH took a huge bonus that probably meant it was worth taking a hit on each car to get it shifted. At the time motorpoint had a whole pile of DS4's with the same registration date on the web (about 40 from memory), plus there were loads at CitroŽn dealers with number plates to suggest they had also been sold by Evans Halshaw.


That is similar to how online discounting works; the dealer is using a fleet number for Enterprise; for example who will get a whopping discount, but instead of registering it to Enterprise it will be registered to the purchaser, using the big fleet discount and they hope that they don't get caught by the manufacturer and get all monies clawed back, or the cars are registered to Enterprise and then re-registered a day later to the end user.

Sometimes dealers will just make up a company name, register it and tell Renault that this company will guarantee to buy x hundreds a year so what discount will they get, thus enabling big discounts to be achieved.
cbeaks1

Demos on car are 3 month min unless the dealer is manufacturer owned. Manufacturers will usually prefer dealer vehicles or demos as they count as retail for share purposes. Chucking money at rental not so popular.

Doing dealer vehicles as retail by using staff is a bit shonky.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

Humphrey The Pug wrote:
With us I think it depends on how it is ordered, it is all very complicated; something to do with using specific "type" numbers when the order is placed on the system, this then generates differing support, depending on the "type" number.

So, does this mean that Renault are not really interested in private sales or that they want to rip private purchasers off? †Whatever, it does mean that buyers who research pricing may not buy from their local dealership as they can buy elsewhere and save a shed-load. †It cost your lot the sale of a Captur in 2014 as they could not get anywhere near the price that I paid whereas if there had been just a couple of hundred pounds (or thereabouts) in it, I'd willingly have supported a local business. †But when the savings amount to several thousand, sorry but I can't afford to effectively throw that money away, and there must be loads of others in the same situation

(and I'm sure that Renault are not the only ones playing this game)
Humphrey The Pug

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
Humphrey The Pug wrote:
With us I think it depends on how it is ordered, it is all very complicated; something to do with using specific "type" numbers when the order is placed on the system, this then generates differing support, depending on the "type" number.

So, does this mean that Renault are not really interested in private sales or that they want to rip private purchasers off? †Whatever, it does mean that buyers who research pricing may not buy from their local dealership as they can buy elsewhere and save a shed-load. †It cost your lot the sale of a Captur in 2014 as they could not get anywhere near the price that I paid whereas if there had been just a couple of hundred pounds (or thereabouts) in it, I'd willingly have supported a local business. †But when the savings amount to several thousand, sorry but I can't afford to effectively throw that money away, and there must be loads of others in the same situation

(and I'm sure that Renault are not the only ones playing this game)


What you have quoted is nothing to do with discounting, it is to do with how cars that we order for ourselves are to be used; ie demos or showroom/ stock cars; if it is ordered as a demo, using the specific code, then we may get another 2% support to help us find running the car as a demo vehicle, however Renault will know that that specific car is a demo vehicle and when we are audited it will have to be on the premises.

What I was alluding to regarding internet sales and heavy discounting by using fleet terms spuriously is something completely different.

Every manufacturer has differing fleet terms depending on the size of the fleet of the purchaser, it is no different than bulk buying anything; purchase more so get a larger discount. It is just that some dealers are cheating the system, Renault don't sanction it, if it is brought to their attention that it is going on then they will investigate, if we can provide specific information, other manufacturers will have dealers that cheat the system too.
Giant

Fully revealed on Auto car, Auto Express were pretty accurate in the OP. Looks superb inside and out IMO
Roadsterstu

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Bit of a puzzler that for me. Why go out of the way to build a new DS brand with its own styling and then go and make your new C3 look like it's a DS?


I still don't get the way Citroen are doing the DS thing as a whole.
Michael

I really like that, love the interior.
Andy C

The front is juke ugly
cbeaks1

Andy C wrote:
The front is juke ugly


It is what the people want apparently.

I really hope the multi coloured 'personalised' thing does a death soon. The plain ones look good, the one with red bits everywhere looks awful.

I would be interested to see the interior in the cloth - it does look good in photos.
simonp

Andy C wrote:
The front is juke ugly


Seconded. Quite like the rest, though. The coloured front square on  the door is something I'd try and avoid as an option, if possible. Just looks odd.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

... and here it is for real, airbumps, warts and all
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/citr...atch-primed-for-early-2017-launch
tali

Won't be long then before Cactus becomes a sub-brand...
Giant

tali wrote:
Won't be long then before Cactus becomes a sub-brand...


I think that's always been a stated plan, like Picasso is.

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