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Frank Bullitt

CitroŽn Advanced Comfort

Rumour has been around for some time, with a strong hint from CitroŽn themselves but here at last is the first story with some technical details and, importantly, a drive in the C4 Cactus with the technology integrated;

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news...E2%80%98reinvent%E2%80%99-comfort

Sounds like a fantastically interesting comparison with the description of the results being exactly what I want - naturally there will be people who bemoan the end of Hydropneumatics and that nothing can take its place but after 60 years of production it seems that PSA have a product to replace pressurised oil that is undoubtedly going to be cheaper to produce, it seems to be technically not radically different to the 2CV's suspension in many respects.

I can't wait.
Giant

Sounds very promising, but bear in mind this is a Steve Cropley piece, so objectivity is never present! Also I remember a piece a few years ago about how PSA had developed an engine that could run on compressed air that would revolutionise small cars which appears to have come to nothing.
Frank Bullitt

They might as well give up with all development then.

The Hybrid Air was pencilled in for production at some point during 2016, but shelved in 2015 as the development costs meant they needed a partner and there were no other parties willing to invest.
Michael

Good on them. I like it when manufacturers try something new, or old in the case of the Volvo composite leaf spring.
I still don't know where DS fits in but hopefully it means Citroen can go down the relaxed ride route while DS is more sporty premium.
Giant

Frank Bullitt wrote:
They might as well give up with all development then.

The Hybrid Air was pencilled in for production at some point during 2016, but shelved in 2015 as the development costs meant they needed a partner and there were no other parties willing to invest.


I Must've woken up grumpy this morning! New technology is always interesting. It does sound good and hope it comes to fruition. My point about Steve Cropley stands though!
PhilD

Giant wrote:
My point about Steve Cropley stands though!


As it should, I love his enthusiasm but a journo should be a bit more critical and objective!
Frank Bullitt

Cropley can orgasm over a used tampon, but I can dream can't I?

Went looking at cars yesterday - sadly the DS5 is too small inside for us - the one we tried was a petrol DS Prestige with the watch-strap leather (shit-the-bed when that hits the market). Mrs FB started getting gooey over the C4 Picasso, so waiting for the new C4/5 next year is the way to go.
PhilD

OK, I've read a few times but I'm still not really sure what the big change is?!
Frank Bullitt

On just the suspension;

The new suspension has been developed in-house and will be exclusive to CitroŽn within the PSA Group ďfor the time beingĒ. It replaces classic bump-stops in a conventional coil-over suspension unit with compact, carefully calibrated secondary dampers that CitroŽn engineers call progressive hydraulic cushions. These offer much better control towards the extremities of suspension bump and droop, permitting the suspension rates in the centre of travel, where the car spends most of its time, to be notably more relaxed and deliver what CitroŽnís suspension experts call ďa magic carpet rideĒ.

The rest of the article makes it clear that the rest of the package is focused on comfort and refinement - added together sounds like a result
PhilD

Frank Bullitt wrote:
On just the suspension;

The new suspension has been developed in-house and will be exclusive to CitroŽn within the PSA Group ďfor the time beingĒ. It replaces classic bump-stops in a conventional coil-over suspension unit with compact, carefully calibrated secondary dampers that CitroŽn engineers call progressive hydraulic cushions. These offer much better control towards the extremities of suspension bump and droop, permitting the suspension rates in the centre of travel, where the car spends most of its time, to be notably more relaxed and deliver what CitroŽnís suspension experts call ďa magic carpet rideĒ.

The rest of the article makes it clear that the rest of the package is focused on comfort and refinement - added together sounds like a result


yep read that bit and still don't get it! why is this cheaper? (and maybe better)
Bob Sacamano

It sounds good and I'm all for a comfortably riding Citroen. Having said which is it really cheaper than the hydropneumatic which is well sorted with all the glitches ironed out and all development costs paid for long ago?
I think they'll struggle to solve the pitching problem mentioned in the article.
PhilD

ďWe set out to achieve suspension characteristics as close as we could get to the hydraulic suspension so many people have grown to love.

ďHowever, we needed a new system without the cost barrier of the hydraulic, which would mean we could apply it to all CitroŽn cars. We believe we are close to achieving this. Our plan is to use the system in all models, from the C1 up.Ē

So is it better or just cheaper, and should he have said " ďWe set out to achieve suspension characteristics as close as we could get to the BEST hydraulic suspension so many people have grown to love"?
JohnC

Twin spring systems have been used in the past and worked well. I can't remember who it was used it in the 90's but there was an outer and softer spring which gave comfort and a secondary harder spring which came in to play once a certain amount of roll or spring travel had been used up.

The Citroen idea is basically two dampers instead of two springs which in my mind gives a greater opportunity for better control but it will require some fine tuning.

I think all the pipework and valves are the main reason the hydraulic system has become too expensive whereas a bolt on shocker is always going to be cheaper.
gooner

Modern damper systems have got so much more control built into them these days that it's probably a lot easier to make it electronically adjustable at reasonable cost compared to hydropneumatic system. It should also mean there's more scope for different handling modes to be built in so it can ride like an S Line Audi through a bendy B road whilst being like a magic carpet on the motorway. In theory at least!
Frank Bullitt

PhilD wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:
On just the suspension;

The new suspension has been developed in-house and will be exclusive to CitroŽn within the PSA Group ďfor the time beingĒ. It replaces classic bump-stops in a conventional coil-over suspension unit with compact, carefully calibrated secondary dampers that CitroŽn engineers call progressive hydraulic cushions. These offer much better control towards the extremities of suspension bump and droop, permitting the suspension rates in the centre of travel, where the car spends most of its time, to be notably more relaxed and deliver what CitroŽnís suspension experts call ďa magic carpet rideĒ.

The rest of the article makes it clear that the rest of the package is focused on comfort and refinement - added together sounds like a result


yep read that bit and still don't get it! why is this cheaper? (and maybe better)


Packaging is important, as is the cost of the system - despite being comparable to the original Hydropneumatic system it has undertaken constant development (at a cost, it wasn't recovered on the DS!) which has kept it an expensive option - not an issue on a C5 size vehicle although even then the shortly to be discontinued B7 model only ever had it on Exclusive models and automatic VTR+ versions - for smaller cars it's not viable.  The smallest production CitroŽn with Hydropneumatic suspension was the GS/GSA largely because it is practically the same system as the CX. CitroŽn have often found some customers put-off by the floating sensation in CitroŽn models with Hydropneumatic suspensions.

Many CitroŽn enthusiasts are decrying this, of course, expecting CitroŽn to persist with the technology; I, and many more, are delighted to see a mass-market system that gives an excellent ride quality that rthe ally can be implemented across the range.  People seem to forget that before the DS, there was the 2CV with its wonderful suspension and sublime ride.

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