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JohnC

Cheap DS 5

On Facebook, Citroen are advertising the new DS 5 from £255/mth on personal lease.
Frank Bullitt

Yes I've already had a discussion at home about that! I think it's a £1200 or £2000 deposit too.

I'm waiting for the current one to be 18 months old before the hard-search begins!
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

I really want to like the DS5, but I can't help feeling it's a con - a would be premium car based on a cheapo hatchback, and not a particularly good cheapo hatchback, at that. If PSA are serious about making DS a premium brand, they'll have to do better.
Bob Sacamano

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
I really want to like the DS5, but I can't help feeling it's a con - a would be premium car based on a cheapo hatchback, and not a particularly good cheapo hatchback, at that. If PSA are serious about making DS a premium brand, they'll have to do better.


It gets poor reviews all round which is disappointing - I think it would be transformed if it had the proper Citroen hydro suspension.
Giant

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
I really want to like the DS5, but I can't help feeling it's a con - a would be premium car based on a cheapo hatchback, and not a particularly good cheapo hatchback, at that. If PSA are serious about making DS a premium brand, they'll have to do better.


It gets poor reviews all round which is disappointing - I think it would be transformed if it had a German badge in the bonnet.


FYP
Frank Bullitt

Giant wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
I really want to like the DS5, but I can't help feeling it's a con - a would be premium car based on a cheapo hatchback, and not a particularly good cheapo hatchback, at that. If PSA are serious about making DS a premium brand, they'll have to do better.


It gets poor reviews all round which is disappointing - I think it would be transformed if it had a German badge in the bonnet.


FYP


No doubt; having said that the 'DS' DS5 (as opposed to Citroen DS5) seems to be getting some very positive reviews.  The platform is old, but that's the challenge of where it was introduced in the planning cycle.

I still love them. Loads.
Andy C

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
I really want to like the DS5, but I can't help feeling it's a con - a would be premium car based on a cheapo hatchback, and not a particularly good cheapo hatchback, at that. If PSA are serious about making DS a premium brand, they'll have to do better.


And the engines are wank

a top spec diesel is 35k without options , with broad speed doing it for about 31k

You can just about get a 330d for that

I know which I'd have !
Bob Sacamano

Andy C wrote:
Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
I really want to like the DS5, but I can't help feeling it's a con - a would be premium car based on a cheapo hatchback, and not a particularly good cheapo hatchback, at that. If PSA are serious about making DS a premium brand, they'll have to do better.


And the engines are wank

a top spec diesel is 35k without options , with broad speed doing it for about 31k

You can just about get a 330d for that

I know which I'd have !


It's true they make no sense new but at 12 months old they are an interesting option.
Frank Bullitt

That's the hybrid though which doesn't get the same discounts as the rest of the range - a 2.0HDi Prestige 180 EAT6 is £32k list, £23.5k discounted - is a tad more realistic.
tali

Driven a few DS5s , wonderful interior ambience (one of the best ever  for detailing) but ergonomically not the best.Drive is nothing special. And those dopey 4 mini sunroofs.. kinda useless but cool
DS4 is runt of the range.
Frank Bullitt

tali wrote:
DS4 is runt of the range.


How very dare you  

There are three sunroofs in the DS5, not four (one over the driver and passenger each, and another over the rear seats).

The detailing of the interior is lovely, it all feels very natural to me.
Andy C

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Andy C wrote:
Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
I really want to like the DS5, but I can't help feeling it's a con - a would be premium car based on a cheapo hatchback, and not a particularly good cheapo hatchback, at that. If PSA are serious about making DS a premium brand, they'll have to do better.


And the engines are wank

a top spec diesel is 35k without options , with broad speed doing it for about 31k

You can just about get a 330d for that

I know which I'd have !


It's true they make no sense new but at 12 months old they are an interesting option.


Not for me , it's gotta be said
gonnabuildabuggy

Frank Bullitt wrote:


There are three sunroofs in the DS5, not four (one over the driver and passenger each, and another over the rear seats).

The detailing of the interior is lovely, it all feels very natural to me.


Another vote for the interior, though I'd prefer roofs that actually opened.

I'd be interested to see what used values do on the hybrid.
Roadsterstu

Much further down the line than q2 months - so 5 years old or so - I could see a DS5 being a good value used car. I do love the look of them.
Frank Bullitt

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:


There are three sunroofs in the DS5, not four (one over the driver and passenger each, and another over the rear seats).

The detailing of the interior is lovely, it all feels very natural to me.


Another vote for the interior, though I'd prefer roofs that actually opened.

I'd be interested to see what used values do on the hybrid.


The hybrid models hold their value better than the non-hybrid, especially so when you factor in that they tend to be high-mileage cars.

I really fancy the hybrid but I'm nervous about the automated manual EGS gearbox as it suffers from too many issues in the C4 Picasso (where it's quite common); it's an issue with the output shaft bearings which if not caught early enough require a full rebuild.  Also, the boot space is restricted by the batteries but I could live with this by using the roof box when we need to.  The hybrid system itself is perfectly reliable across all the platforms that use it (DS5, Pug 508, Pug RXH and Pug 3008), and in the DS5 they are introducing the proper 'EAT6' auto later this year which will, frankly, make it a very appealing package (to me at least!).

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/class...ert/201602201231382?atmobcid=soc4
Big Blue

I'm another DS5 fan. A full auto Hybrid would sit well with me.

As to the DS4 being the runt of the litter, I guess these are very spec and usage dependent. My ma's petrol turbo automatic is specced quite highly and she drives it on Provençale roads or billiard smooth AutoRoute: it excels at both feeling like a luxury car inside and riding like one. I love it as does she (after 20 years of Mercs and a BMW E46 and a decade of Oldsmobiles before that)
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Bob Sacamano wrote:
... they make no sense new but at 12 months old they are an interesting option.

True, but that's not the way to premium-land
Bob Sacamano

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
... they make no sense new but at 12 months old they are an interesting option.

True, but that's not the way to premium-land


It isn't but Citroen seem determined to only pay lip service to building a premium brand and continue to discount heavily. If they are going to do that what was the point of the DS brand and its lofty intentions?

Scrap the C3, the C4 (it's almost identical to the DS4 anyway), and the C5 (can't remember the last time I saw one).
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Scrap the C3, the C4 (it's almost identical to the DS4 anyway), and the C5 (can't remember the last time I saw one).

+1. Nothing to recommend them at all. Start with the Picassos and the Cactus and build a credible range from there. Hint: take a look at Nissan have achieved by accepting that they're not going to sell mainstream hatches in today's market.
Frank Bullitt

Yes, Citroen should be building their brand on the Picasso and Cactus themes as high quality, comfortable and functional vehicles with the oily bits being used for the DS models, the next DS5 will likely be bigger next time as it currently uses a highly modified 308 platform (the old model not the new one).  

However as much as the C3 appears to be an irrelevance in the UK they are hugely popular in France and I understand the next one is looking to be a much more attractive proposition,
Big Blue

Yes C3 is close to the default family car in France from the number I see.
Frank Bullitt

Big Blue wrote:
As to the DS4 being the runt of the litter, I guess these are very spec and usage dependent. My ma's petrol turbo automatic is specced quite highly and she drives it on Provençale roads or billiard smooth AutoRoute: it excels at both feeling like a luxury car inside and riding like one. I love it as does she (after 20 years of Mercs and a BMW E46 and a decade of Oldsmobiles before that)


In terms of looks they will always be marmite (as are many other cars of course) but on many respects it's a good car but that's my perception - one thing I read on a couple of the recent facelift reports on magazines was the 'small footwell' being an issue (both CAR and AutoCar cited it) so on one level you could say that from two sources the comment has merit but then as an owner with size 11 feet (often wearing boots if we are going to rugby) I've never noticed this being an issue. I can't help thinking that as some bits of the car at different (or odd or shit depending on your view point) people are too quick to criticise them.

As good as the opposition is, the only other cars of that size that appeal to me are the 308 (form an orderly queue of similar jibes) and the Volvo V40. I like lots of the other options but not sure I would actually buy one.

The only real criticism I have is that in 1.6HDi form it's not really got the performance I was hoping for but we couldn't find a 1.6THP with the proper auto (EGS only), the 200bhp 1.6THP DSport couldn't be found and the 2.0HDi seemed quite rare. There's nothing wrong with it in normal use but I'd like a bit more punch.
tali

Frank Bullitt wrote:
tali wrote:
DS4 is runt of the range.


How very dare you  

There are three sunroofs in the DS5, not four (one over the driver and passenger each, and another over the rear seats).

The detailing of the interior is lovely, it all feels very natural to me.


Ah yes  three
DS4 rear windows don't open and cramped in rear.Also some of the plastics are old -school Citroen cheap.Although i do think the car looks good.
Frank Bullitt

I never really understand why people get so wound up by the rear windows not opening, in two years of ownership it's been an issue exactly zero times, and we use the rear all the time for our son.  It's not huge in the back but it's big enough for a family and he car can carry five if required.

Some of the plastics low down aren't so brilliant (it's the and as the C4), on more visible parts it's much better - most people who get in it are quite impressed although the stereo graphics on our car (without say nav) have been nicked from a Commodore 64
tali

" people get so wound up by the rear windows not opening" - good pun
PhilD

tali wrote:
" people get so wound up by the rear windows not opening" - good pun


Also got to be true. Aircon makes it unnecessary.
Big Blue

As most family cars have the rear windows on lock anyway, I can't see all the fuss. I've used the DS4 as family wagon during the holidays and it's fabulous.
tali

PhilD wrote:
tali wrote:
" people get so wound up by the rear windows not opening" - good pun


Also got to be true. Aircon makes it unnecessary.


Rear opening windows  are a fundamental right of motoring.The access to a blast of fresh air should not be dismissed , simplified or turned eventually  into some luxury, where car makers will  charge extra for bleedin wind ups in the rears.Not everyone wants to be cooled down by A/C.
Frank Bullitt

So it is with many three door cars that have a back seat and if I ever drop my guts in the car, opening a front window clears it sharply.
gonnabuildabuggy

Can someone name me a 3 door car that has proper wind down windows?

The 3 series coupe had pop out windows but I rarely let the kids use them due to memories of Fiat 127's where the leading edge was glued to the hinges at the front. Eventually the glue would give way when opening them and the window fall out, held only by the rear catch.
Big Blue

tali wrote:
PhilD wrote:
tali wrote:
" people get so wound up by the rear windows not opening" - good pun


Also got to be true. Aircon makes it unnecessary.


Rear opening windows  are a fundamental right of motoring.The access to a blast of fresh air should not be dismissed , simplified or turned eventually  into some luxury, where car makers will  charge extra for bleedin wind ups in the rears.Not everyone wants to be cooled down by A/C.


I live in a London borough. What's this "fresh air" of which you speak?
Frank Bullitt

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
Can someone name me a 3 door car that has proper wind down windows?


The only one that comes to mind is the second generation Mercedes CLK (which isn't a 3dr of course but doesn't have rear doors but Windows that open)
JohnC

My wife's A5 Cabrio even dispenses with the wind down bit and allows the rear windows to move at the touch of a button!
tali

Lots of Jap cars from 70s and 80s had them,such as this Cherry.And the Toyota Crown Coupe had front windups and rear electrics!
PhilD

tali wrote:
PhilD wrote:
tali wrote:
" people get so wound up by the rear windows not opening" - good pun


Also got to be true. Aircon makes it unnecessary.


Rear opening windows  are a fundamental right of motoring.


Had you been drinking?  
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Frank Bullitt wrote:
gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
Can someone name me a 3 door car that has proper wind down windows?


The only one that comes to mind is the second generation Mercedes CLK (which isn't a 3dr of course but doesn't have rear doors but Windows that open)

Also the current E coupe
Michael

You could wind down the back windows in an 8 series.
tali

PhilD wrote:
tali wrote:
PhilD wrote:
tali wrote:
" people get so wound up by the rear windows not opening" - good pun


Also got to be true. Aircon makes it unnecessary.


Rear opening windows  are a fundamental right of motoring.


Had you been drinking?  


And don't get me started on half opening rear windows-  right pain when trying to chat to totty
Chris M Wanted a V-10

The rear sidewindows on Ka 2 are glued in place, like the windscreen. At least on Ka 1 they hinged open
Frank Bullitt

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:
gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
Can someone name me a 3 door car that has proper wind down windows?


The only one that comes to mind is the second generation Mercedes CLK (which isn't a 3dr of course but doesn't have rear doors but Windows that open)

Also the current E coupe


You're right, and the 'bar' that means this is possible is hotly contested as of no consequence/ a styling screw up (delete as appropriate) so you can't win! Looked over at FB junior in the back of the DS4 tonight and the long rear window means that even though he can't open it, he can actually see out of it quite easily.
gonnabuildabuggy

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:
gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
Can someone name me a 3 door car that has proper wind down windows?


The only one that comes to mind is the second generation Mercedes CLK (which isn't a 3dr of course but doesn't have rear doors but Windows that open)

Also the current E coupe


Indeed but these are all 2 doors, which do somehow manage to have wind down rear windows as do most convertibles.

I was thinking 3 door hatches primarily but I'll happilly consider Coupes' too.

That Cherry Coupe is the only one I can think off, the 3 door Sunny and Violet's were pop outs.
tali

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:
gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
Can someone name me a 3 door car that has proper wind down windows?


The only one that comes to mind is the second generation Mercedes CLK (which isn't a 3dr of course but doesn't have rear doors but Windows that open)

Also the current E coupe


Indeed but these are all 2 doors, which do somehow manage to have wind down rear windows as do most convertibles.

I was thinking 3 door hatches primarily but I'll happilly consider Coupes' too.

That Cherry Coupe is the only one I can think off, the 3 door Sunny and Violet's were pop outs.


Nah, there's more  , Merc SL/C, C123 (CE), Mazda Montrose Coupe, probably a few more
gonnabuildabuggy

tali wrote:
gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:
gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
Can someone name me a 3 door car that has proper wind down windows?


The only one that comes to mind is the second generation Mercedes CLK (which isn't a 3dr of course but doesn't have rear doors but Windows that open)

Also the current E coupe


Indeed but these are all 2 doors, which do somehow manage to have wind down rear windows as do most convertibles.

I was thinking 3 door hatches primarily but I'll happilly consider Coupes' too.

That Cherry Coupe is the only one I can think off, the 3 door Sunny and Violet's were pop outs.


Nah, there's more  , Merc SL/C, C123 (CE), Mazda Montrose Coupe, probably a few more


Sorry, I meant 3 door coupes like the Cherry, all the above are 2 doors of which plenty have windy windows.
tali

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
tali wrote:
gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:
gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
Can someone name me a 3 door car that has proper wind down windows?


The only one that comes to mind is the second generation Mercedes CLK (which isn't a 3dr of course but doesn't have rear doors but Windows that open)

Also the current E coupe


Indeed but these are all 2 doors, which do somehow manage to have wind down rear windows as do most convertibles.

I was thinking 3 door hatches primarily but I'll happilly consider Coupes' too.

That Cherry Coupe is the only one I can think off, the 3 door Sunny and Violet's were pop outs.


Nah, there's more  , Merc SL/C, C123 (CE), Mazda Montrose Coupe, probably a few more


Sorry, I meant 3 door coupes like the Cherry, all the above are 2 doors of which plenty have windy windows.


I'm not sure there are  many 2 dr coupes that  have wind up rears -it was mainly a Jap thing from 70s/80s, as they even reverted to pop outs

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