| Archive for The Motor Forum talking cars since 2006 |
| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
BMW M - Chris Harris talking sensehttp://www.drivers-republic.com/f...d94dc98882295a082b7347&page=1
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| Matt |
It really does seem like the end of the M brand with the X5 and X6 getting the treatment, but something at least more traditional like the Z4 not getting a variant.
Do many people lust after AMG? I've never found them to have a following. A respect, yes, but never a deep passion. M has that passion from its fans, but it's in danger of going down the AMG route and ruining what was special about it. |
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| TimR |
I think you could apply that comment to the whole of BMW at the moment. The days of "The Ultimate Driving Machine" seem to be a long time ago. It's also pretty startling to look through the M Power section of Pistonheads and see what, say, an E60 M5 costs to run and exactly what goes wrong with it. I certainly would never want one to replace mine. |
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| Twelfth Monkey |
Sounds like he's gone off the M3. Has it been (or is it about to be) replaced? Something of a pattern emerging, if so... | ||||||
| Eff One |
He's spot on as far as I can see. The current M3 holds no interest for me - far too big and bloated regardless of how fast it is.
But a 1 series coupe with a mildly breathed on version of the 3 litre six, M-tweaked chassis and stripped to under 1300kg would have me mortgaging parts of my anatomy. |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
E30 M3 vs E92 - no contest.......ditto E39.
But then I like old stuff and am relatively out of tune with the times. I do wonder how many M purchasers are true petrolheads. |
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| "him" |
I think that is entirely the point, the 'M' cars are now expensive toys for those that can afford them. BMW does very nicely out of it too... ...90% of us aren't even on their radar as potential customers. |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
Problem is (for BMW) if you target the "fashion" market, sooner or later you fall out of fashion - stick with targetting an enthusiast niche then you will never make millions but the business will always be there. Now where did I put my Burberry cap? |
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| Boxer6 |
I would hope a fair-ish percentage ~ sadly, though, there will always be large numbers of people who will buy a vehicle for its' perceived "Kudos" or fashionability and not pure driving pleasure/experiences. (And I speak as a non-BMW fan in general!!) One example - a blonde woman I spotted the other day in a 3.2 A4 Quattro cabrio. Couldn't drive it round the car-park very well, couldn't park it worth a fuck, and was much more interested in talking on her hand-held (what, no Bluetooth option in your car, you silly cow?) and running her other hand through her hair every 10 seconds to realise what kind of car she was driving (other than a fashion statement, I mean) far les appreciate what little dynamic prowess an A4 cab actually has! Ah, feck it - I'm going for a pint! |
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| Twelfth Monkey |
I saw as RS diesel cabrio yesterday. Never knew they made them. | ||||||
| gonnabuildabuggy |
What engine is in an RS Diesel? |
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| Nice Guy Eddie |
I do lust after a an M3 saloon would buy a 135i or 130i and would consider a 335i touring and thats about it.
The rest of the BMW line up holds squat all interest over those cars. Its a shame but BMW does appear to be a little lost at the moment. Like Chris I've been saying for years, produce a 35k lightweight 300bhp rwd coupe with LSd and little else. Make it handle like a Cayman add a little bit of hairy chest and they will have an absolute winner on their hands. I appreciate this is the 135i market but it seems they missed a trick that they haven't made that car a little more Sly stallone then Jude Law. |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
I've not read it in depth but the latest Autocar test on the Z4 seems to conclude great looker, OK steer.
That's backwards for BMW so hope it's a blip not a trend. They will probably sell tons compared to the last model though..... |
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| TimR |
I saw a gold new Z4 about a month ago (only one I've seen so far) and approaching fron the rear I thought it looked awful.
I'd lost interest in checking out the reat by the time I passed it. |
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| Twelfth Monkey |
Same as in a 2.0TDi, but with an RS badge slapped on its arse! |
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| Matt |
But that's fair. After all, the RS4 is just an A4 with an RS badge on it... 
No need for those moonboots Twelfth! |
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| franki68 |
I think there is no doubt that BMW and not just the 'm' division have moved away from the enthusiastic driver.The current M5 is an amazing car but has far too many settings none of which seem to work right ,and has that godawful gearbox and an engine that is now for me too inefficient.All its competitors produce 500+ bhp and do 20mpg or thereabouts,I managed about 10mpg in the m6 whcih is lighter than the m5.The new m3 again is an amazing car but the steering is devoid of any feel whatsoever and the gearbox is awful,correct these and it would be nigh on unbeatable.
And no z4m..surely that is the greater crime than making an mx6 or mx5 if correct BMW numbering is used
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
So what makes it an RS? (beyond the piece of plastic on the rump  )
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| Mark |
Re: BMW M - Chris Harris talking sense
I can understand the general sentiment completely - however, many other manufacturers (not mentioning any names) roll out heated up versions of their saloons and the actual company has little (almost zero) link to any top flight motor sport - never mind their saloon having a link to an actual works racing vehicle. There is no doubt M division is veering away from what it once was - X5 & X6 variations show that. But, there are plenty of true petrolheads still buying the saloons and who are on their 3rd/4th version etc. Just look at the M forum. And, remember, they are still very, very good cars – which other model (from any manufacturer) has been pretty much universally praised in every edition that has been launched like the M3 & M5? Very few. Regarding weight – I’ve mentioned this before – medium/large saloons aren’t accelerating in weight anywhere near as much as some ‘sports’ cars. Lotus Evora = 1400kgs v Jaguar XFR = 1900kgs. The Jaguar is an awful lot more car for 500kgs - and ‘only’ £10k. Going back to BMW & M division – they are in the business of building – and selling – cars (just like any other company). At the end of the day, they have to build what sells to survive – and that, unfortunately, is for better or for worse – just look at the bloody 1 series...
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| Eff One |
Re: BMW M - Chris Harris talking sense
I don't agree. The Evora weighs broadly the same as an Esprit V8 weighed ten years ago. The 911 has put on perhaps 50kg in that time, as has the Boxster. People seem to be mistaking the Evora for some sort of softened-up Exige, but it's a completely different sort of car. It's no flyweight for the class, but it's certainly not overweight. By comparison, the E90 M3 put on at least 80kg over the already porky E46. And an XF weighs at least 300kg, model for model, more than my Dad's early 90's V8 S Class. |
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| DaveGibson |
1959 Fiat 500 - 505Kg
2008 Fiat 500 - 1075Kg (Granted, a crash in the first might well leave you in very poor shape.) |
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| Mark |
Re: BMW M - Chris Harris talking sense
I wasn’t picking on the Evora particularly – it’s just that it was in the same issue of Autocar as the Jaguar XFR road test, so comparison was easy. |
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| Martin |
Re: BMW M - Chris Harris talking sense
I was right with you there until the moment of madness at the end
A 1 series is far more in keeping with the brand than an X6M! |
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| Mark |
Re: BMW M - Chris Harris talking sense
I do actually think the 1 Series is a great drive – the various ones I’ve had have all been great; even the 116i (think I wrote something about that one in ‘Test Driven’ actually). I just can’t get along with the looks – but that has nothing to do with the original post, I guess. |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
And it wouldn't be hard to make an M 1-series: take regular 1-series, add E46 M3 engine, remove FG, job's a good 'un. |