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Martin

BMW / Jaguar / Audi / Lexus

My objective yesterday was to try and figure out whether taking the cash option was going to get me something that was worth the extra cost and if so, what would that be. † †To cut a long story short (apologies in advance!) Iím a little clearer now, but still a long way from decided on what I like best, hopefully getting my thoughts down will help.....

As you can imagine, Iíve spent a lot of time researching and thinking about the options to get to a short list, which meant I only had to visit 3 dealers, although that did take most of the day! †I didnít bother with Mercedes as Iíve driven a current shape E Class enough to know I donít really like the way it drives and I donít fine the seats comfortable at all, which rules out the CLS as well.

The first thing to mention is the quality of service, which was surprisingly good. †I know you should expect nothing less, but Iíve had some terrible experiences in the past, but this time everyone I spoke to was helpful, knowledgeable and not at all pushy.

I started off with BMW for no reason other than Iíd have to drive past it to get to the other dealerships..honestly! †They were really busy, all the salesmen seemed to be dealing with 2 or 3 sets of people each and both the M3 and M4 demonstrators were being well used (look great, sound OK). †That worked out in our favour, because it meant we got to go out in the cars on our own, which is so much better. †There werenít any cars in the showroom that were of interest, but luckily they had a number of 3 and 5 series in the used car area, including a 330d Touring and 535d Touring parked next to each other, so we got the keys for those and had a really good look around. † Unsurprisingly, the 3 series feels a lot smaller than the 5, but that's mainly the width, in terms of rear legroom there isnít a lot between them and they both passed the Ďsitting behind myselfí test, which will become increasingly important as my eldest seems to get taller by the day! †Thereís a bigger difference in interior appeal, both the styling and quality of materials. †The 3 feels like a real step down from my car, let along the new model and moving between both really highlights the differences. † †As an aside, if it's not good enough at £35-40k, then it's really not good enough at M3/M4 money. †In additional to different feeling you get, there are things in the bigger car that many will call FG, but are really nice touches (electric steering wheel, electric luggage cover, gas strut on the boot floor etc) and the seats are very comfy and supportive (very similar to mine). †On to the test drives.....

We took the 535d M Sport Touring (LCI) out first and the initial impression was that despite being on 19Ē wheels and RFTs, it rides across poorly surfaced roads better than mine on 18Ē wheels and normal tyres. †It felt very familiar as well, which Iím not sure is a good or a bad thing! †We tried a variety of roads, from very bumpy country lanes to smooth dual carriageway and the ride was excellent, comfortable combined with the nice firm feel that I like. †The 535d is deceptively quick, it doesnít feel particularly urgent, probably because its so refined and the performance is dominated by the torque (no surprise with 630nm/465 lb ft), but you do get pushed back into the seat and it overtakes with ease. † What was a little strange was how narrow a band of revs it uses when accelerating, I guess thatís a combination of 8 gears and it getting through them quickly, but the 330d was very different, as I'll come onto. † The gearbox is excellent, so smooth when you want it to be, but really quick changes when you want to push on and moving to Sport mode just sharpens it further without spoiling the quality of the changes. †Overall, I really liked the way it felt to drive, comfortable and relaxing, but still went around the corners well and great at overtaking. †Lindsay drove it too, she wasnít worried about the size or driving her first automatic, not enough to stop her testing all the performance anyway and she really liked it.

The next drive was in a 330d M Sport Touring. †First impression was a firmer ride (but not crashy) and reduced refinement, with a lot more engine noise and as speed increased, a lot more wind and road noise than in the 535d (so a lot worse than my car). †However, it felt a more urgent and quite a bit quicker, although looking at the speedo it wasnít, it was just the way it felt. †It felt like it was using a much wider rev range which added to the feeling of speed and I preferred, but I guess the 335d would be the same as the 535d in that respect. †Itís definitely more fun to drive, which combined with the more urgent feel, encourages you to throw it around more and generally drive it harder. †The traction control came into play several times, especially from a standing start! † The problem with that was Lindsay felt car sick after 5 minsÖ.something that doesnít happen in the Boxster when driven in a similar way. † I donít know whether adaptive suspension would be better as it did bounce around a bit on country lanes? †Back on the positive, we both liked the size, itís plenty big enough for us but felt quite small. †Lindsay drove it as well and liked the smaller dimensions, declaring it a much better car to drive than to be a passenger in.

We left BMW confused. †The 535d had been the nicer car to drive and is a much nicer place to spend time, but the 330d was more fun, is cheaper and a more sensible size. †Based on cost, the real comparison is between the 335d and 530d, so the 3 will be much quicker and have the security of 4WD, but I did prefer the 30d engine, so maybe that's not an issue. †

Next stop was Jaguar, we both like the XF Sportbrake in Diesel S trim (Lindsayís favourite going into the day and the car she was most keen to see) and Iíve not driven an XF since an early 2.7d Luxury, so I was really interested to see what the later cars are like. †Only one other person in the dealership and according to the salesman thatís fairly typical. † †Out of interest, I was surprised to learn that the lead time on the F Type has come down to about 3 months. † They had a couple of 63 plate Portfolio S Sportbrakes parked outside, one was grey with black leather, the other was black with ivory leather. †It is a good looking car up close and there is a lot to like when you sit inside. †The seats are comfortable and supportive, the leather is soft, it smells expensive inside (of leather not new plastic like most), it has a huge list of standard equipment, the stereo is excellent and you can get a good driving position. †On the negative side, there are too many buttons that look and feel cheap, I really donít like touchscreens, the sat nav graphics are poor, the dials look very dated and Iím not sure how my OCD would cope with poorly aligned trim e.g. the dash and door panels donít line up, which is made more obvious by the double stitching.... †Overall, it felt more luxurious, but no more modern than my car.

We went out with the salesman in the black Sportbrake and it felt very similar to the 535d in the way it went down the road, same smooth gear changes and a very similar ride. †Once properly on the move, it didnít feel as quick as the BMWs and when we got up to a decent speed, it moved around on its suspension more, didnít feel quite as Ďsolidí and going into dynamic mode just made it feel less comfortable. †It had a bit more tyre and wind noise than the 535d at motorway speeds as well. † It is a nice car to drive, of that thereís no doubt, but there wasnít anything that really stood out. †I didnít like the rotary controller for the gearbox and whilst it was very smooth on the move, it did Ďclunkí a little when going into first at junctions and whatís with the cheap and nasty little plastic paddles? † I did really like the cooled seats though, it felt strange at first, but was very welcome! †Overall, we both liked it, itís a smart looking, very well equipped car, but we kept using the word nice....which sums it up really and means itís off the list. †

The final stop off was at the Audi dealership and I was expecting another terrible experience, but it wasnít at all. †It was really busy, as they had some sort of new car upgrade and used event going on, with bunting everywhere. †Again, the sales people were busy, but as we were looking at the A7 we were looked after by the lady thatís responsible for all the Sport and Premium models, which means A7, A8 and the RS models. †They had an A6 S Line Ultra in the showroom and that was nice enough for me to be fairly sure thatís what Iíd go for on our new company car list, but not enough to spend my own money on. †The A7 feels like a nice step up from the A6 though and itís got a great size/shape boot. †Iím not sold on the rear styling, but it has grown on me over the years and it looks much better in dark colours on decent size wheels, which on the A7 means 20Ē+! †The biggest problem was a lack of rear headroom, my head was pressed against the roof lining, so it really wasnít going to be an option, but I still took her up on the offer of a drive in their 3.0tdi Quattro Black Edition. † The ride wasnít as bad as I was expecting an Audi on 21Ē wheels and S Line suspension would be, but it was still too firm and crashed over bumps in a way no other car Iíd driven that day had. †The A7 has the S Tronic gearbox and thatís not as good in auto mode as the 8 speed in the BMW/Jaguar. † You can feel the changes more and they arenít as smooth, which would probably be better in a sports car, but didnít feel quite right in a big car. †Overall, I wasnít that impressed, an easy car to strike off the list.

So it did help, it got my shortlist right down, but Iím still really confused. † I think the right answer is to get something comfortable and refined with a decent turn of speed and not worry as much about the fun part, as weíve got the Boxster for that. †However, would a 335d with Adaptive suspension be more comfortableÖ.would I get used to the interiorÖ..would I wish a 530d was a bit quicker / a bit more fun to throw around (it's still feels really good after all)..... I donít know!!

Then thereís the wild card. † While we were in the Audi dealership, we had a good look at the new A8 SE Executive. †What a lovely car to sit in, the showroom appeal was huge! †It looks similar inside to an A6/A7, but it really isnít, its so much better than both. †The quality of the materials, switches etc is much higher and there are some lovely touches, I particularly liked the ambient lighting. †Like the Jaguar, it has pretty much every bit of FG youíd want as standard (Keyless entry, Bose surround sound, top view, memory seats, decent sat nav etc) including Matrix Beam LEDs, which look and apparently are, amazing (take a look on Youtube). †It looked a bit under-wheeled in SE Executive trim, but in Sport Executive trim, it looks really very smart indeed. † It was the nicest car I sat in all day my some margin and that included a couple of XJís! †With double glazing, adaptive air suspension and 22 way adjustable comfort sports seats, Iím guessing it would pass the comfort test with ease.

But an A8.....really? †Itís more expensive (not sure man maths is enough!), bigger and in my head, Iím not old enough to drive one. †The demonstrator wasnít there unfortunately, but I can borrow it for a couple of hours this week if I wish, so I might just make an appointment. †Maybe.

I was really expecting it to be easier. †
PhilD

Night thought dump! How come you have ruled out the C-Class?
Martin

PhilD wrote:
Night thought dump! How come you have ruled out the C-Class?


Exactly! Just been out for a run, another good opportunity for a think!

I went to look at one a couple of weeks ago. †It's pretty small (didn't pass the sit behind test), I'm not keen on the styling and 4 pot diesel only for now. †With the current discount that means it's as expensive as a similar spec 6 pot 3 series.

Forgot to mention that the BMW salesman was trying to talk me into a 520d. †More economical, cheaper to buy, still fast enough, good residuals etc etc. †I told him that he was talking himself out of a sale, as I may as well stick with a company car in that case! †

"Here's the keys to the 535d, take it for as long as you want".
PhilD

SO new 3 bigger than C? interesting.

OK, Infiniti Q50? Maserati Ghibli?  
Martin

PhilD wrote:
SO new 3 bigger than C? interesting.

OK, Infiniti Q50? Maserati Ghibli? †


Sorry, the selection window has closed! †

I don't need any additional complication.... †
Frank Bullitt

I like the A8 for lots of reasons but the least of them is probably the airport taxi overtones and if you think the 5 looses out to the 3 on a back road blast...

I'd have the 330dX touring in there right flavour and with the right goodies over the 335d and 530d and just accept it's not as refined (all relative of course)
Martin

I think I'm leaning towards luxury/comfort/refinement as a lot of my driving is dual carriageway and traffic. †An A8 does have airport limo (not taxi †) overtones, but more so in standard spec with small wheels, much less so in a dark colour with Sport spec and bigger wheels. †I might think it a step too far to comfort world after a drive, so that's probably what I need to do in order to get it out of my system.

A 330/335 is a good compromise, but I'm not sure I need to when I have a car in the garage that's way more fun to drive than anything I'd be looking at and is what I'd use for that 'back road blast', which is a nice position to be in. †It was the same when we were looking for a fun car. Fast saloons, coupes and 4 seat convertibles are a really good compromise, but it was great not having to. †It's not like the 5 series wasn't really good to drive either, it was a lot more fun that the XF.

But, having said all that, I still don't know! †It's only a decision I can make, I know that, but it does help writing my thoughts down.

I'd be delighted if this was waiting outside to pick me up at the airport, although the next time I fly I'll have a chauffeur driven S Class picking me up from home and taking me to the airport at the other end. †

http://www.audi.co.uk/used-cars/u...641-1057008.aspx?srcmdc=se_ce_re_

I can see myself back in a 5 series!      
tali

3 series to A8 ... it's a bit of a leap.Best to go for the middle ground....
JohnC

I had a 530D Touring when my car was in the garage in January and I really liked it. It was pretty quick and more than a match for 85%/90% of the cars you would meet day to day. It is a very comfortable place to spend time and if I was doing big miles I would want a 5.

The 530D impressed me with its smooth and sophisticated power delivery and it was deceptively quick without feeling it. The one I had was an MSport on 19" wheels with passive suspension and it was very good over bumps.
My immediate feeling when I got back in mine was very similar to you - it felt much more alive, harder definitely and more involving. Mine is without doubt a good bit faster especially between 40 and 70mph when dropped down a gear or two for an overtake. I don't know if mine just has a good engine but the shove is massive. HOWEVER I think the 5 covers the ground much more quickly that it feels whereas the 3 is a slightly blunter instrument.

If it is comfort you want I think you know the answer.

I agree on the A7 - it is a wonderful thing to sit in, questionable looks at the back and a disappointment on the road.

It's only my opinion but the A8 is just too big and potentially gives some people the wrong impression. When I was offered a 7 series at £399/mth I was tempted until I thought how my clients might feel if I sent them a fee note. Some don't care what other people think but it would be remiss to ignore the potential impact.

Drive the deal had some A8's recently which had about 20K off the price and I think they were the SE model. The other thing is that it won't fit into normal parking spaces.

I have been back on the new car treadmill this weekend as well and the new offer is £7K off a 435D (I am so close to doing it) but I could put a sunroof in a 430XD and still be £1,500 better off. Discounts not quite as good on the 430D and about £3k less on the 420D or 428i.
Martin

Thanks John, really useful and interesting that you're thoughts are in line with mine.

I don't care what other people think and it is different for me as I don't have clients to worry about. †The Boxster has created a bit of a stir, but it's been good natured banter and hasn't caused me any issues. †Most people wouldn't know an A8 wasn't an A6, especially without badges (naturally).  DTD were offering £22k of the Sport Executive, but all Audi discounts are suspended at e moment. There are a few 14 reg cars with low miles for around the £45k mark on the Audi website

I do think the 530d Touring would be a great option, especially with a Panoramic roof, comfort seats and nappa leather. †Adding adaptive LED headlights, comfort access and a couple of other things would be even better!

Discounts on the 35d are higher than 30d whatever the model, I saw this quarters deposit contribution newsletter yesterday and it was an extra £1000 on both 3 and 5 series.

Have you tried the 435d? †Be interesting to know your thoughts on the engine compared to the 530d.
Frank Bullitt

I can see it being a 5 series too!

530d with the right options
JohnC

Martin wrote:
Have you tried the 435d? †Be interesting to know your thoughts on the engine compared to the 530d.


I'm afraid not.

The dealer in Glasgow I won't deal with only has a 420D, 428i and they can get a 435i.

The other dealer who will match any internet deal I get has just sold their 435D demonstrator for £1k more than I can get a new one for.

In normal driving the 530D felt pretty quick and it was only when using full attack that you notice the difference in power - it is only 50/60hp so it's not earth shattering but noticeable. I have heard it said that the power in the 35D is more linear whereas the 30D has a bit more of a step up once the turbo comes fully on. Put it this way, if I hadn't driven mine I would find a 30D more than enough for virtually all the driving I do and probably a bit more economical.

I think the 430XD and 435D flatter themselves a bit in the 0-60 times because of 4wd but I don't expect them to be any faster than mine once rolling. The 8 speed might give a bit more acceleration but these cars are more about torque which largely negates small gearing differences. Mine will keep a normal 911 honest up to more than fast enough and I have never felt that I had a narrow power band and it will happily go from 30mph to 80mph in 3rd, pulling well from 30 to 40 and then like a train right up to an indicated 80mph (on the track of course).

The salesman was quite excited about the launch control which he said was fantastic but then added something along the lines of "well you know how fast it is anyway".

I found there was a significant difference in refinement between the 3 and the 5 series. I commented recently that I was very impressed by how quiet a client's new 520D was and that you couldn't tell what the engine was when you were in the car, even at tickover.

I was also in a 640D which was very 5 like in refinement and less involving than mine to drive but in some ways, no less enjoyable. As an event to sit in and feel good about yourself it is a great place to be and well above the 3 or even the 5. If I was out with the family or just covering distance I would rather have the 5 or 6 but if I wanted to attack a bit of road (as I did early this morning on the way to golf at 6.30am) I would have my car every time because it starts to come alive as you push it.

I haven't got any real experience of the new 3 series but I have driven the new 4 and it is more refined than mine whilst not being in the same league as the 5 or 6. The electric steering doesn't have the feel of the hydraulic but there isn't any choice anymore.
Martin

If you're thinking 435d, then I'd definitely try and get a drive in one, as I think the 430d may well have a better / more interesting engine.   I did think about a 640d GC as it's a lovely looking car and the interior is even nicer that the 5, but it's not big enough in the rear unfortunately.  

If I want to attack a bit of road, then I've got the Boxster, which is in a different league to the current 3 series.  But I don't drive that every day of course.
Roadsterstu

Frank Bullitt wrote:
I can see it being a 5 series too!

530d with the right options


My suggestion too. Roomy, good compromise between ride and handling, more refined, surely quick enough.
Giant

Any reason Lexii aren't being considered? A test drive of IS and GS would be interesting reads for the rest of us at the very least!

Edit:

As you're brief seems to be anything from slightly larger than a 3er to an A8, with decent handling and a certain je ne sais quoi, surely a Maserati Ghibli should be the obvious answer?..
Giant

Roadsterstu wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:
I can see it being a 5 series too!

530d with the right options


My suggestion too. Roomy, good compromise between ride and handling, more refined, surely quick enough.


Everytime I see a 5er, even now four (?) years after launch, my instant reaction is that is a HUGE car. I don't know how much bigger they are over the previous gen, maybe the styling exaggerates.
Martin

I like the idea of the Ghibli, but not the way it looks. I did think about the GS (450h F Sport), but I'm not keen on the way that looks either and a hybrid with an elastic band gearbox doesn't hold a huge appeal. †I was thinking estate too, but I might have a look at one this week, out of interest if nothing else.

The new 5 isn't a lot bigger than the old one, it's 60mm longer but only 15mm wider. The wheelbase is 120mm longer, maybe that makes it look bigger?
Andy C

Once he's chose the car, we've still got the 'what colour' thread to come ....


Ghibli looks and sounds great - listen to the clip on my Stanford hall thread .


Martin :BMW 3-Series Touring 335d M Sport xDrive 3.0 Diesel Automatic

Manufacturer Price £42,820
Broadspeed Saving £8,228
Broadspeed Price £34,592

313bhp
465lb/ft from 1500rpm
52mpg
0.60 - 4.8 seconds
148g/km

Job done .


Now what colour....
PhilD

Is the 5's bonnet line higher?
Martin

Andy C wrote:
Once he's chose the car, we've still got the 'what colour' thread to come ....

Ghibli looks and sounds great - listen to the clip on my Stanford hall thread .

Martin :BMW 3-Series Touring 335d M Sport xDrive 3.0 Diesel Automatic

Manufacturer Price £42,820
Broadspeed Saving £8,228
Broadspeed Price £34,592

Job done .

Now what colour....


That's about £5,000 of options away from being anything like job done! †

On paper, you're right though and that where I was before Saturday.  Fastest isn't always best you know!

I've seen the clip and it does sound good, but I'm not a fan I'm afraid and that's before considering the reviews e.g. Autocar called it 'mediocre' to drive and gave it 3.5 stars (it weighed over 2 tonnes!!)

This isn't a 'what car' thread really, just sharing my thoughts and don't worry, there won't be a 'what colour' one to follow!
Racing Teatray

I sat in a 5er Touring and a 3er Touring last time I was in a BMW showroom. Both were in some sort of MSport+ version which brought lots of FG.

I can safely say I really don't like the dash in the 5er. It's slabby and cliff-like and just unattractive. The 3er by contrast just felt right. Probably it has a few rougher edges trim-wise, but not so as I noticed enough to care.

Unless I really needed the carrying capacity of the bigger car, I couldn't see myself picking it over the 3. Unless we were talking about a 550i...!!
Racing Teatray

I sat in a 5er Touring and a 3er Touring last time I was in a BMW showroom. Both were in some sort of MSport+ version which brought lots of FG.

I can safely say I really don't like the dash in the 5er. It's slabby and cliff-like and just unattractive. The 3er by contrast just felt right. Probably it has a few rougher edges trim-wise, but not so as I noticed enough to care.

Unless I really needed the carrying capacity of the bigger car, I couldn't see myself picking it over the 3.
gooner

If if we're me, I'd be very very tempted by the A8 over the 5 series as with the discounts on offer and the Audis standard equipment I can't see there'd be much in it price wise once you've got the BMW specced to your liking. It really is your decision though as what looks good to any of us here has to be lived with by you.

Good luck making your mind up!
Andy C

Martin wrote:
Andy C wrote:
Once he's chose the car, we've still got the 'what colour' thread to come ....

Ghibli looks and sounds great - listen to the clip on my Stanford hall thread .

Martin :BMW 3-Series Touring 335d M Sport xDrive 3.0 Diesel Automatic

Manufacturer Price £42,820
Broadspeed Saving £8,228
Broadspeed Price £34,592

Job done .

Now what colour....


That's about £5,000 of options away from being anything like job done! †

On paper, you're right though and that where I was before Saturday. †Fastest isn't always best you know!

I've seen the clip and it does sound good, but I'm not a fan I'm afraid and that's before considering the reviews e.g. Autocar called it 'mediocre' to drive and gave it 3.5 stars (it weighed over 2 tonnes!!)

This isn't a 'what car' thread really, just sharing my thoughts and don't worry, there won't be a 'what colour' one to follow!


Only messing. I had a brief look at a 320d at Waddington today.  I really liked the interior, and it also had a great driving postion.  What about the new Alpina D3?
Martin

I assume discounts are hard to come by on the D3, which would make it too much money for a 3 series IMO. † There's nothing wrong with the interior of the 3 at all, it's just not as nice as the 5 (to my eyes/touch!) and feels like a step backwards for me. †If I was coming from something else, I'm sure I'd be more than happy and I'm not saying its terrible at all!

It's not just about the interior either, if I didn't like the 5 for some reason, I'd have the 3 over an XF, A6 etc and I'm still undecided anyway.
Martin

gooner wrote:
If if we're me, I'd be very very tempted by the A8 over the 5 series as with the discounts on offer and the Audis standard equipment I can't see there'd be much in it price wise once you've got the BMW specced to your liking. It really is your decision though as what looks good to any of us here has to be lived with by you.

Good luck making your mind up!


Thanks! You're right there isn't much in the cost at all and the 5 would be more expensive if you really pushed the FG to try and match the spec.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

Martin wrote:
The new 5 isn't a lot bigger than the old one, it's 60mm longer but only 15mm wider. The wheelbase is 120mm longer, maybe that makes it look bigger?

Yes, but do you really need such a big car, or is it just that the interiors of BMWs are not very space-efficient?
Bob Sacamano

My 2p for what it's worth (very little, I suspect).

The revised company scheme hasn't worked out as bad as you feared, so looking at it:

You have a very nice Boxster in the garage if you want to go out for a pleasure drive.
You don't know what bills the Porsche will throw up in the future so I probably wouldn't want to add in a second car with potential liabilities as well.
For me it's about taking the least financial hit on your daily driver/company car, so I'd take an A6 Tdi Ultra/520d (lowest BIK tax hit) and minimal options - why pay a fortune for options on a company car?
Bob Sacamano

Martin wrote:


The new 5 isn't a lot bigger than the old one, it's 60mm longer but only 15mm wider. The wheelbase is 120mm longer, maybe that makes it look bigger?


In new car terms a 120mm increase in wheelbase is massive, with consequential increases in the interior.
Martin

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
Martin wrote:
The new 5 isn't a lot bigger than the old one, it's 60mm longer but only 15mm wider. The wheelbase is 120mm longer, maybe that makes it look bigger?

Yes, but do you really need such a big car, or is it just that the interiors of BMWs are not very space-efficient?


No, I don't need a car that big.  As I said earlier, the 3 series is fine in terms of size, it's got more rear legroom than the new C Class and is more spacious in the back than an A7!
Martin

Bob Sacamano wrote:
My 2p for what it's worth (very little, I suspect).

The revised company scheme hasn't worked out as bad as you feared, so looking at it:

You have a very nice Boxster in the garage if you want to go out for a pleasure drive.
You don't know what bills the Porsche will throw up in the future so I probably wouldn't want to add in a second car with potential liabilities as well.
For me it's about taking the least financial hit on your daily driver/company car, so I'd take an A6 Tdi Ultra/520d (lowest BIK tax hit) and minimal options - why pay a fortune for options on a company car?



Your 2p is worth more than you think!  

That's the sensible option and you're right, not a terrible one at all.  

Putting aside whether or not I want to be sensible, it's not as simple as that, as I'm not really entitled to a company car under the new rules!  If you do under 10,000 miles a year then you have to take the cash, over that then you have to take a car.  Looking back at my business mileage, I've done 8,700 in the last 12 months and only 2,900 in the last 6 months.  I'm not on the hit list at the moment because I don't submit any mileage records, but I wouldn't be surprised if they started to ask for them otherwise how will they know who should be in a car and who shouldn't?   So worst case, I could be pushed into a returned car I don't like for 12 months, then be made to opt out!

I'm keen to go for an auto this time as well, which means 518d SE Saloon and also think having an estate would be a good idea now we no longer have a hatchback.  That's not essential though, as I can always borrow/hire something if necessary, but it's not an option on the new list.

It's also a good point about the unexpected costs, but I'm looking at new / very nearly new, so what liabilities are you thinking of?  My calculations include tyres, servicing and a decent amount for 'other' costs, even though I'd be expecting nothing more than brakes and a bit of oil, but it would cover an unrepariable puncture as well for example.

Putting the costs into perspective (this is where the man maths start!), I could run a basic 530d M Sport which has a similar spec to the A6 for very little additional cost, it only gets significantly more when I start adding options!  Also, the total extra cost over 4 years to run a 335d/530d in the spec I want is about the same as I'm paying for a 2 week holiday......
JohnC

Martin wrote:
†Also, the total extra cost over 4 years to run a 335d/530d in the spec I want is about the same as I'm paying for a 2 week holiday......


That is gold star award man maths.
Frank Bullitt

The bit I don't understand is you are happy with a 530d but also a 335d in which case if the '30d' works and so does the 3xx then why not a 330d with some options and not being any worse off.

It also looks way better than the new 5
Tim

Frank Bullitt wrote:
The bit I don't understand is you are happy with a 530d but also a 335d in which case if the '30d' works and so does the 3xx then why not a 330d with some options and not being any worse off.

It also looks way better than the new 5


+1

I'm also not sure why you are worried a 530d might not be quick enough when you currently spend most of your time in a 520d?
Frank Bullitt

I'm disappointed the ultimate in man maths isn't happening here;

Take the cash, get a 3 year old 318d with a body kit then work out what 911 you can get with the difference plus the Boxster.

Edit; scratch that, I know where there's a great 520d M-Sport that's been properly serviced by nobbys that'll be up for sale when you need a new car.
Tim

Frank Bullitt wrote:
I'm disappointed the ultimate in man maths isn't happening here;

Take the cash, get a 3 year old 318d with a body kit and some inappropriate 'M' badges then work out what 911 you can get with the difference plus the Boxster.



FYP
Martin

Frank Bullitt wrote:
I'm disappointed the ultimate in man maths isn't happening here;

Take the cash, get a 3 year old 318d with a body kit then work out what 911 you can get with the difference plus the Boxster.

Edit; scratch that, I know where there's a great 520d M-Sport that's been properly serviced by nobbys that'll be up for sale when you need a new car.


Thanks for that, there was way too much common sense going on in this thread!!  

I don't have a huge desire for a 911, it would be very nice of course, but the extra cost over a Boxster doesn't seem worth it to me.

In response to some of the other points...

I know I might not have a choice in the end, but the aim of opting out isn't to save money, it's to get something better / what I really want.  Well, not what I really want, as that would be more than I'm confortable spending right now.  I've done the sensible maths as well and opting out will allow me do what I want in terms of lifestyle/holidays and grow my savings, before taking into account any bonus I may get and share options I will get.

I don't think I said that a 530d wouldn't be quick enough?  I said it wouldn't be as quick as a 335d, but of course it's a lot quicker than mine and based on the test drives, it's a nicer engine than the 35d anyway.

I agree that the 3 looks better than the 5 from some angles (the front), but the 5 looks better from others (rear & rear 3/4), so they're pretty even to my eyes.  

I think I need to drive them both again.....  

John - Yes, man maths to be proud of and that's just one of a number of things I can think of that make the cost seem OK!  
PhilD

JohnC wrote:
Martin wrote:
†Also, the total extra cost over 4 years to run a 335d/530d in the spec I want is about the same as I'm paying for a 2 week holiday......


That is gold star award man maths.


in other words, I spend a shit load on holidays so I might as well spend a shit load on a heated and cooled massaging car seat...
JohnC

Just watch that your judgement of the 30D v 35D isn't coloured by the car the engine is in. The 5 is a much more sophisticated, cosseting place to be whereas the 3 is a bit rawer in the driving, aural and involvement departments. Try to find a 335D for a drive before condemning the engine to 2nd best.

However when I drove the 530D my thought was do I actually need anything faster than this.
Martin

PhilD wrote:
JohnC wrote:
Martin wrote:
†Also, the total extra cost over 4 years to run a 335d/530d in the spec I want is about the same as I'm paying for a 2 week holiday......


That is gold star award man maths.


in other words, I spend a shit load on holidays so I might as well spend a shit load on a heated and cooled massaging car seat...


That's not what I meant at all.  Just putting the cost into perspective (for my benefit, not anyone else), which helps and is what man maths is all about.....
Martin

JohnC wrote:
Try to find a 335D for a drive before condemning the engine to 2nd best.

However when I drove the 530D my thought was do I actually need anything faster than this.


That's easier said than done and I'm sure you're right about the level of performance being enough, especially (as has been pointed out!), when you're coming from a 520D!  In the real world, 0.5sec quicker to 60 is nothing really and not a lot for a price difference of £3,000 (between 530d-535d).  It's a smaller difference in the 3 series, only £1,500.
gonnabuildabuggy

Frank Bullitt wrote:
I'm disappointed the ultimate in man maths isn't happening here;

Take the cash, get a 3 year old 318d with a body kit then work out what 911 you can get with the difference plus the Boxster.

Edit; scratch that, I know where there's a great 520d M-Sport that's been properly serviced by nobbys that'll be up for sale when you need a new car.


My thoughts entirely.

Or an XJ.
JohnC

I see that there are some nicely specced used 330D saloons on the market now at between £26K and £30K. Get one with folding rear seats and you almost have the flexibility of the touring.
PhilD

Martin wrote:
PhilD wrote:
JohnC wrote:
Martin wrote:
†Also, the total extra cost over 4 years to run a 335d/530d in the spec I want is about the same as I'm paying for a 2 week holiday......


That is gold star award man maths.


in other words, I spend a shit load on holidays so I might as well spend a shit load on a heated and cooled massaging car seat...


That's not what I meant at all. †Just putting the cost into perspective (for my benefit, not anyone else), which helps and is what man maths is all about.....


I know, but as you do like a fancy holiday my analogy also works  
Martin

There are quite a few and they're great value, but memory seats are a must now we change cars several times a week, especially as the standard seats are manual in the 3, which means you have the really annoying lever adjustment (height is the biggest change we have to make).  As Lindsay felt car sick with the standard M Sport suspension, adaptive dampers would be essential too, which makes finding the right car nearly impossible!

The 330d I drove on Saturday was £31k and it had a really nice spec including panoramic roof, professional navigation, HK speakers etc.
Martin

PhilD wrote:
I know, but as you do like a fancy holiday my analogy also works †


Kind of...... †

I'd prefer to think it of it more along the lines of liking to treat myself!
Martin

The sensible option isn't an option now, as Mr Banatyne would say..... I'm Oot!

Not sure whather that deserves a     or a    

It's funny, I have the post purchase blues/feeling I always get when I spend a decent amount of money and I've not spent a penny yet!!  Hopefully that means that when I do, it will feel good.....
Stuntman

I'd vote for a well-specced 330 or 335 with adaptive suspension and the smallest wheels that pass the test of still looking aesthetically acceptable to you both!
Spend any savings on fuel/trackdays in the Boxster...
Chris M Wanted a V-10

Martin wrote:
..... professional navigation, .....

So much better than the plain old "amateur navigation", no doubt !
PG

Martin wrote:
The sensible option isn't an option now, as Mr Banatyne would say..... I'm Oot!

Not sure whather that deserves a † † or a † †


I take it that means you're out of the company car scheme, or out of buying a car?

As you have the Boxster for fun and those B-road blasts, I think your view that comfort is probably more important than outright sportyness is the right one.

Basically -
You want a comfy car
That goes like a stabbed rat if you boot it to overtake - either on an A road or a motorway.
But will not bankrupt you financially.
And might be useful as an estate.
And does not make your girlfriend throw up as a passenger.

That sounds like a 5 series estate with the biggest engine (and auto gearbox) that you can get your man-maths head round.

And I know we've had that debate already, but look at some petrols. No DPF, cheaper fuel, cheaper to buy (less interest to pay).
Martin

I'm out of the company car scheme.

Yes, I think comfort has to be a priority and you've got the rest of the criteria spot on!

I worked through the costs of running a a petrol, as I found out I'd get 24p rather than 17p per mile for business mileage, so I thought the numbers would be close.  (and I've never bought a diesel with my own money!).  

They were't too bad, but I'll still be doing close to 30,000 miles (22k private), so it was a decent amount more per month and in this sort of car, a diesel isn't the terrible option that some people think!  A 528i would be £2,000 less to buy than a 530d, but that's a 4 pot petrol.

Moving up to a V8 would be different (lightly used M5 please), but the cost gap widens to a huge amount.
Tim

That's a stingy mileage rate  
Martin

Tim wrote:
That's a stingy mileage rate †


Yep and that's for a 3.0 litre! †It's only that rate for people who are given a cash alternative, the theory being that the company are already paying for the car (not quite!), so it's just for fuel.
PhilD

Martin wrote:

They were't too bad, but I'll still be doing close to 30,000 miles (22k private)


Where the hell are you going?  
Tim

Martin wrote:
Tim wrote:
That's a stingy mileage rate †


Yep and that's for a 3.0 litre! †It's only that rate for people who are given a cash alternative, the theory being that the company are already paying for the car (not quite!), so it's just for fuel.


For HMRC purposes business use rate for a personal car isn't related to engine size, it's 45p/mile.
Martin

PhilD wrote:
Martin wrote:

They were't too bad, but I'll still be doing close to 30,000 miles (22k private)


Where the hell are you going? †


I know and it's mainly 2 locations!!

Around 8,000-9,000 miles commuting 3-4 days a week into MK and about 10,000 miles picking up/dropping the kids off (Swindon).
Martin

Tim wrote:
For HMRC purposes business use rate for a personal car isn't related to engine size, it's 45p/mile.


Yes and that's what everyone who runs their own car without an allowance will get for journeys under 100 miles.  For longer journeys they must use a hire car.

I know I get some tax back on the 28p difference, which will be about £75-80 a month.  It's in the calculations!
PhilD

Martin wrote:
PhilD wrote:
Martin wrote:

They were't too bad, but I'll still be doing close to 30,000 miles (22k private)


Where the hell are you going? †


I know and it's mainly 2 locations!!

Around 8,000-9,000 miles commuting 3-4 days a week into MK and about 10,000 miles picking up/dropping the kids off (Swindon).


ah, I'd taken the commute to be business miles.
Martin

If that was true I'd be doing my best to avoid re-allocated cars and (probably) trying to order an A6.   I wouldn't have a choice.
Martin

I've got an A8 Sport Executive for a couple of hours on Friday morning.  It's a decent amount ot time to either rule it out and get it off my mind (as I suspect) or make things more difficult.  We'll see.
JohnC

Martin wrote:
I've got an A8 Sport Executive for a couple of hours on Friday morning. †It's a decent amount ot time to either rule it out and get it off my mind (as I suspect) or make things more difficult. †We'll see.


If you're looking for any kind of driving enjoyment I doubt you will find it in an A8. But as a means of moving you from A to B in the comfort of the local Gentleman's Club I reckon it would be right up there.
Martin

Driving something towards one end of the comfort/luxury scale will be interesting.   Hopefully it will help me figure out just how important that is for the type of driving I do in the main car.
PhilD

JohnC wrote:
Martin wrote:
I've got an A8 Sport Executive for a couple of hours on Friday morning. †It's a decent amount ot time to either rule it out and get it off my mind (as I suspect) or make things more difficult. †We'll see.


If you're looking for any kind of driving enjoyment I doubt you will find it in an A8. But as a means of moving you from A to B in the comfort of the local Gentleman's Club I reckon it would be right up there.


Have you not seen Ronin?  
Bob Sacamano

PhilD wrote:
JohnC wrote:
Martin wrote:
I've got an A8 Sport Executive for a couple of hours on Friday morning. †It's a decent amount ot time to either rule it out and get it off my mind (as I suspect) or make things more difficult. †We'll see.


If you're looking for any kind of driving enjoyment I doubt you will find it in an A8. But as a means of moving you from A to B in the comfort of the local Gentleman's Club I reckon it would be right up there.


Have you not seen Ronin? †



I don't see Martin as much of a Boyzone fan myself.
gonnabuildabuggy

Bob Sacamano wrote:


I don't see Martin as much of a Boyzone fan myself.


 
Alf McQueef

Re: BMW / Jaguar / Audi

Martin wrote:
I think the right answer is to get something comfortable and refined with a decent turn of speed and not worry as much about the fun part, as weíve got the Boxster for that. †


That being so, why are there no Mercedes on the list? Understandeable if you simply don't like them - this being a personal choice - but something like the E class coupe is right between the 3 and 5 in size, and the E class is a straight 5 series competitor while the new C is supposed to be a quality, refined item with what the 3 series lacks for you...

The passenger comfort thing on the 3 vs 5 sounds odd - did the smaller size and better fun factor of the 3 mean you were simply driving it harder??
Martin

My boss is on his 3rd E Class in the last 18 months, as that's all he can have on the temporary car scheme which means he has to change them every 12,000 miles.

I've driven them all over a decent distance and the current saloon (E220cdi SE) is quite a bit better than the last couple (estate and saloon), but I just don't like it.  My biggest issue is with the seats, which are too short in both the base and the backrest, the top of the backrest is a lot lower than my shoulders.   I'm pretty uncomfortable after less than an hour, so that's a complete non starter.

In a way it's a shame as they're very good value, I  don't mind the looks and the interior quality is better in the facelift model.... but it's very dull to drive and the gearbox isn't a patch on the BMW/Jaguar 8 speed.

The E coupe is even worse for me due to the fixed headrest, I couldn't get on with that just sitting in the showroom.  

Yes, as I said in my original post, I did drive the 3 a bit harder, which will be part of the problem.  However, I didn't drive it as hard as I drive the 520d from time to time and the Boxster on a more regular basis.   I'd need to get more used to it to do that.
Martin

PhilD wrote:
Have you not seen Ronin? †


Or the Transporter films!  I've always like the S8, right through to the current model.  The Sport Exec looks like the S8...it's as close as I could afford to get to running one!

Boyzone fan.....    
Frank Bullitt

Martin wrote:
...it's as close as I could afford to get to running one!


That's what you think

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/class.../s8/price-to/9000/page/1/usedcars

What will you do with the rest of the cash?
PhilD

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Martin wrote:
...it's as close as I could afford to get to running one!


That's what you think

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/class.../s8/price-to/9000/page/1/usedcars

What will you do with the rest of the cash?


Go on holiday?

Why wouldn't you move the fronts sets as far forward as they go if taking a pic of the rears? Or is that it for legroom?  

Nice car though (wood and awful satnav notwithstanding)
Martin

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Martin wrote:
...it's as close as I could afford to get to running one!


That's what you think

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/class.../s8/price-to/9000/page/1/usedcars

What will you do with the rest of the cash?


Oh Chris.....you know that's not the current model! †I'd have loved that about 10 years ago, but not now.

Your suggestions are getting older very quickly, has GBB converted you at last? †
Roadsterstu

PG wrote:
Martin wrote:
The sensible option isn't an option now, as Mr Banatyne would say..... I'm Oot!

Not sure whather that deserves a † † or a † †


I take it that means you're out of the company car scheme, or out of buying a car?

As you have the Boxster for fun and those B-road blasts, I think your view that comfort is probably more important than outright sportyness is the right one.

Basically -
You want a comfy car
That goes like a stabbed rat if you boot it to overtake - either on an A road or a motorway.
But will not bankrupt you financially.
And might be useful as an estate.
And does not make your girlfriend throw up as a passenger.


Sounds like my V50.

V60 Polestar?!

I'd agree with the fast, comfy but handles well estate. When will the best company 520d ever be going?
Martin

Not sure when that will be, sometime between the 1st Aug and end of the year, it depends on whether I buy new or used.

I was following it back from MK late yesterday, it's still a cracking looking car and really will be missed.
PhilD

Roadsterstu wrote:
PG wrote:
Martin wrote:
The sensible option isn't an option now, as Mr Banatyne would say..... I'm Oot!

Not sure whather that deserves a † † or a † †


I take it that means you're out of the company car scheme, or out of buying a car?

As you have the Boxster for fun and those B-road blasts, I think your view that comfort is probably more important than outright sportyness is the right one.

Basically -
You want a comfy car
That goes like a stabbed rat if you boot it to overtake - either on an A road or a motorway.
But will not bankrupt you financially.
And might be useful as an estate.
And does not make your girlfriend throw up as a passenger.


Sounds like my V50.

V60 Polestar?!

I'd agree with the fast, comfy but handles well estate. When will the best company 520d ever be going?


that thought popped into my head as well, it would be near the top of my list, as I think the V60 is a great looking car and the Polestar gives it a naughty edge.
Roadsterstu

Only the Polestar would get close to Martin's criteria I reckon. Sutters liked it, see the video on Autocar. 6 cylinders, too.
Martin

It's a nice idea, but I'll pass thanks.
PhilD

Martin wrote:
It's a nice idea, but I'll pass thanks.


Not quite the image you are after eh!  
Racing Teatray

And a CLS estate thingy wouldn't do the trick? Much nicer than an E.
Roadsterstu

Martin wrote:
It's a nice idea, but I'll pass thanks.


Well I like it!

Chris M Wanted a V-10

Roadsterstu wrote:

Sounds like my V50.

You forgot to mention the extra-comfy seats too; few do seats as well as Volvo do (especially since the demise of SAAB)
Martin

Racing Teatray wrote:
And a CLS estate thingy wouldn't do the trick? Much nicer than an E.


Yes, I was interested in one of those,me specially as they lose a fair bit in the first year so a 6-12month old one would be £36-38k. †However, they have the same seats as the E Class, so it's no good. †Lindsay thinks it looks like a hearse, but I think that's because the one we saw was black!

Chris - the seats in mine are a great blend of comfort and support, they're the best I've ever spent time in and my dad had a succession of SAABs.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

Martin wrote:
†However, they have the same seats as the E Class

Are you sure? A couple of years ago I went to M-B World and found the CLS a much nicer cabin to sit in than the E-class. OK so both models have been revised since then, but although you sit lower in the CLS, it was a comfier and nicer environment too
Martin

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
Martin wrote:
†However, they have the same seats as the E Class

Are you sure? A couple of years ago I went to M-B World and found the CLS a much nicer cabin to sit in than the E-class. OK so both models have been revised since then, but although you sit lower in the CLS, it was a comfier and nicer environment too


We'll, even if they're not exactly the same, they have the same issue of being too short.  The interior is nicer than the E Class though, you're right.
Roadrunner

The E-Class seats must have taken a big downturn because the ones in my W211 are among the most comfy I have ever used. A three hour trip leaves me completely untroubled, which with my back is something of an achievement. They don't instantly 'wow' me like Volvo or SAAB seats, but after two hours into a journey I suddenly realise that I have forgotten all about the seats and have not had to resort to my usual long distance shuffling about.
Martin

I didn't have a problem with the seats in my Dads E Class, although the seat back is still short and finished below my shoulders, it's much higer in mine.   The problem I have with the current model won't be the same for everyone, my boss finds it OK.
Martin

I dropped into the Lexus dealer yesterday to look at the GS, anything to keep Bob happy!  

Theyíve got a pre-registered GS 450h F Sport, which has only done 16 miles but is up for a few thousand less than the DTD price.  Iím really not sure about the styling, but the interior has a lot going for it.  The leather is nice quality, the general fit and finish excellent and it has tons of standard kit, more than the XF Portfolio.  On the downside, the sat nav graphics are really poor, the mouse controller is a daft idea and the seat, whilst really comfortable with a huge range of adjustment, doesnít go low enough for me.  That meant that it felt like I was sitting too high, but I also had to have the wheel higher than Iíd want to stop the cruise control buttons sticking into my leg.   Interior space was fine and the boot was bigger than I expected.

The salesman was genuinely delighted to have someone show interest in the GS and he was a nice helpful/knowledgeable guy, but he didnít stop waffling on about all his customers and how much they love their cars!  I'm not sure that telling me they depreciate really heavily in the first year was the best sales pitch either.....

He wanted me to book a test drive later in the week, but I pushed for a go there and then, so thatís what we did.  It needed fuel, so I was driven for a couple of miles whilst he demonstrated all the modes etc.  It was a very strange feeling pulling away in electric mode, but the petrol engine cut in after a few yards, which is did less noticeably than any stop/start system Iíve experienced.  The engine is nice and smooth, but the benefit of a 6 cylinder petrol is pretty much lost when itís so quiet.  You could just about hear a nice growl, but with it sounded a long way away.

The ride was quite firm but good, which is my preference and it was very quiet at 70mph.  It did feel a bit Ďfloatyí at motorway speeds in normal mode, but felt much better with the adaptive dampers set to sport mode, which means cycling past Sport to Sport+.  The drive control dial is set too far back , which means moving between modes isnít as easy as it should be, which probably wouldnít be an issue as it needs to be in Sport+ all the time!   I really didnít like the gearbox in normal mode, as youíd expect with a CVT gearbox every time you accelerate, the revs jump up and stay there until you lift off.  It felt totally unnatural and I really didnít like it.  Switching to Sport+ means it sort of Ďfakesí being a proper gearbox, but it still didnít feel quite right.   It also made me realise how much I like torque in this type of car, it didnít feel any quicker than mine until you got the revs up, which canít have helped the economy at all.  The computer tracks mpg by day in a bar graph and after driving around MK a little and cruising up the A5 at 70mph, it was just under 30mpg.  The Boxster would have done better than that, mine would have been hitting 50.

It corners very flat and quickly (it has adaptive dampers and 4 wheel steering), but the steering has zero feel and you donít really get any sense of driving (if that makes sense?!), itís no fun at all.

So, a nice car for people who just want to move from A to B in a well built / well equipped car, feeling like theyíre saving money, but youíd have to really hate diesel to choose a GS450h.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

Martin wrote:
..... but the steering has zero feel

That instantly put me off the Auris when my elder daughter was looking to buy, late last year.  I can't understand how any car manufacturer would engineer the steering in such a way. One day soon-ish I'll post a bit about the electric steering in the Ka
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Martin wrote:
The salesman was genuinely delighted to have someone show interest in the GS ...

No kidding!
PG

Roadrunner wrote:
.. A three hour trip leaves me completely untroubled, which with my back is something of an achievement. They don't instantly 'wow' me like Volvo or SAAB seats, but after two hours into a journey I suddenly realise that I have forgotten all about the seats and have not had to resort to my usual long distance shuffling about.


The S class loaner I had was exactly like that. The seats were nothing special to look at, but they were supremely comfortable for a six hour journey.
Racing Teatray

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
Martin wrote:
The salesman was genuinely delighted to have someone show interest in the GS ...

No kidding!


Did he proffer a thoughtfully warm chamois leather?
Martin

He didn't offer me anything like that, not even a coffee come to think about it. †Not what I expected at all!

However, he offered to lend me roof rails and a roof box if I needed it to go on holiday, when I told him the boot was a bit small....apprently he does that for another one of his customers!

It's A8 day tomorrow.
PhilD

Martin wrote:


However, he offered to lend me roof rails and a roof box if I needed it to go on holiday, when I told him the boot was a bit small....apprently he does that for another one of his customers!



presumably if you buy a Lexus? or will you turn up in your new BMW, beep the horn and shout out of the window "stick the roof-box on chief, and chop chop, got a ferry to catch!"
Martin

Yes, I'd have to buy a Lexus to qualify!
PhilD

maybe just buy the roof-box and borrow the car instead?
Alf McQueef

I saw a GS on the A1 on the way oop north earlier - it looked alright, I did not really know what it was from the front.

I mostly read Evo these days so don't often read "normal" car reviews, but those I have read of the IS and other recent Lexi were pretty scathing, and you see very few around, plus as you say the hybrid thing is a waste of time compared to straight petrol and diesel options. They can't be doing well in the UK...
Bob Sacamano

Alf McQueef wrote:
I saw a GS on the A1 on the way oop north earlier - it looked alright, I did not really know what it was from the front.

I mostly read Evo these days so don't often read "normal" car reviews, but those I have read of the IS and other recent Lexi were pretty scathing, and you see very few around, plus as you say the hybrid thing is a waste of time compared to straight petrol and diesel options. They can't be doing well in the UK...


They're on target for their best sales year since 2007.

Toyota aren't pursuing diesel engines because it's a dying technology with a finite life.

I like the GS but as Martin says the boot space is compromised.
Alf McQueef

Surely everyone is on for their best sales year since 2007 in raw numbers - I wonder what the market share figures look like. And surely all technologies have a finite life?

Personally it seems a bit crazy to stick a vast weight of complex, expensive, ecologically ruinous batteries in a car alongside a normal (not "range extender") engine and charge loads more for it on the basis it can drive a distance on full electric power that is so short you might as well cycle or walk - but maybe that's just me. I wonder how many of these are flying out of showrooms at full price.
Martin

It ran on electric power for about 10 metres! †I was told it would run for a couple of miles, but it don't believe that for a second. †It's fine for short stints in traffic, but anything more than gentle pressure on the throttle and the engine kicks in. †We tried EV mode at the end of the drive and it wouldn't get up the slope into the dealership without the engine coming on.

Googling suggest low an average of about 31-32mpg and maybe 40mpg on a long slow run. †They make more sense as a company car with a funded fuel card and I can see why they sell a few hundred a year.
JohnC

Bob Sacamano wrote:

Toyota aren't pursuing diesel engines because it's a dying technology with a finite life.



Why do they believe it is a dying technology? Petrol is produced by refining oil for a longer time than is needed for diesel (which should make petrol more expensive). Diesel is basically a bi-product, so if all you produce is petrol you will be left with a whole lot of waste, including something which could be diesel.

I appreciate that it isn't as clean burning as petrol but DPFs and other technology is taking care of most of that.

I would have thought that the finite life of diesel cars is pretty similar to petrol ones.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

Martin wrote:
He didn't offer me anything like that, not even a coffee come to think about it. †Not what I expected at all!

I got better treatment when buying a Ka, maybe you should try one ???

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