| Archive for The Motor Forum talking cars since 2006 |
| franki68 |
big bonuses for bankersmy favourite subject.So the investment banks have had a bonanza and large bonuses are going to be paid out ,now it seems to me that the stock market which collapsed because of the banks ,had only one way to go ..up,had you put amonkey in charge of investments ,the monkey would have done exceptionally well,since the market from where it was boomed.So in return for fucking up the country and leaving millions of people facing financial ruin( I am sure I am not alone in knowing a few people whos pensions have been destroyed )we get a great run on the markets (where anyone who invested a few quid could have made a fortune) and the bankers for basically doing fuck all get huge bonuses again. |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
Yes. The systems not fixed yet, but it will collapse again then people will stop putting money into the stock market for fear of a third collapse, this should stop bankers making profits of such magnitude.
That said, surely the recent rally will have helped your friends pensions? Despite working in business I find the whole concept of the stock market slightly odd - people should invest to make money from the dividends (how a business is actually performing) but most want to make it on the stock valuation making the stock market a giant legal casino. Same with housing, over the last 5 yrs the only profit came from capital appreciation which was fundamentally risky, yet thousands poured into it. It seems to be all about people wanting to make money for nothing - the bankers and estate agents help them and cream off a huge amount from the top. |
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| Big Blue |
Goldman Sachs never did get into trouble, to be fair to them. But the sentiment is correct: the masses get fucked and the few get rich on their suffering. 'Twas ever thus throughout history. | ||||||
| Scouse |
Eh? Didn't they need $10 billion in government funding to prevent them going under? | ||||||
| Big Blue |
As a cushion; they will be the first to pay it all back |
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| TimR |
They've already paid it back with interest but they did also have additional support of $29billion although I'm not entirely sure what that was for or whether it was taken. It's annoying that they haven't even had 1 year where they didn't receive a vast bonus despite there being a crash in between times. Perhaps if the stock markets had remained down for most of this year bonuses would've been limited but I doubt it somehow. It also annoys me a ridiculous amount that their pay/bonuses is referred to as compensation. Surely that is something you're entitled to when something bad has happened to you? |
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| PG |
Where to start....
I reckon that after Equitable Bastards (which I managed to extricate myself from at some cost) and then the crash, on average my pension pots are 30% down on where I could be. I think that the only way to stop the issues going forward is to re-introduce the rules that split investment banking from retail banking. Then if an investment bank goes "bang" we can just let it go. Until they are made to realise that risk and reward go hand in hand we will all continue to be at their mercy, the useless fu*ing bastards. At the moment, it the taxpayer and the wider economy (ie 99% of the population) gets the downside and the banks (and their higher paid staff) get the upside. What a great business model that is. |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
+25 
EDIT - to clarify, I agree we need to seperate the two so that risk taking has consequences rather than bank of M&D style bailouts. |
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| Twelfth Monkey |
I agree with the general gist of this, but fear that it's a subject that is debated in exceptionally narrow terms because that's how the media have framed it, and because during difficult times we like a scapegoat. The upshot of which is debate that is sometimes simplistic and is usually unnecessarily emotive.
But I repeat, lest I am misunderstood, that I do agree with the general gist of what precedes. |
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| 'G' |
Nationwide Building Soc was offered, but never took Government Aid, as it never needed it.
But we still get accused of taking Aid. Now we are trying to compete with the Banks who did take it and getting an unfair sound thrashing. I am cleaning my face-slapping gloves and polishing my duelling pistols. |
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| canadian bacon |
GS benefited from the AIG bailout, as they had purchased credit default insurance from AIG, had they gone tits up, then GS (and a shitload of other financial institutions) would have gone to the wall, this is why AIG were 'saved', because so many were dependant on them surviving. |
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| Max Headroom |
Surely the same venal immorality that we accuse (rightly) many bankers of is the same attitude taken by numerous MPs with their expenses 'compensation'.
Having lost my job and my home and most of what was in it I struggle to find much sympathy for any of them. I'm paying for their irresponsibility. The Thatcher 'experiment' over the last 25 years has proved to be a busted flush. Light touch regulation has equated to the opportunity to essentially perpetrate widespread fraud. Our indoctrination into investing etc has been relentlessly pushed for decades now. Successive idiot govts, mainly concerned with improving their poverty line standards of living have been hypnotised by the finance sector. Trust betrayed. I've always said 'If you can't afford to lose it all why are you investing it?' (In my twenties i busted a gut to save a nest egg, when i split up with my ex i needed money for a home so ploughed in that money. Now the house, and the nest egg are gone. £50k down the plug hole) |
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| Gooner |
Whilst I am sympathetic to those who have lost money of otherwise suffered at the hands of the bankers actions, I don't see how we can do anything about this whilst we have such a week government. When Brown and his Darling chancellor started mouthing off that they would ban big bank bonuses all I could do is laugh. Like the banks would listen to them or more likely, as if Labour would have the cojones to take on these huge global corporations.
But look on the plus side, if the bankers never got their bonuses, Goldman Sachs will take all the profit they've made out of the country never to be seen again. Whereas 40% of the bonuses paid will go to the treasury as income tax (supposing it comes as cash not shares) but also the bankers will pay 15% of the value of the sportscar they will buy as VAT. And think of what a boost to Aston Martin, Bentley and Rolls Royce's sales these bonuses are. And with these bonuses the bankers are bound to spend plenty on swanky meals and posh hotels. All British jobs that will be boosted by these bonuses. Better that than the money escaping into one of Goldman Sachs offshore accounts. I'm not saying it's right but sadly it's the way the world and we can't all be equal. |
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| garry |
I don't agree. The repeal of the glass steagall act in'99 was where this started. Up until then, retail and investment banking were separate. It allowed the likes of citigroup to trade in mortgage backed securities. You know why the act was repealed? NY was losing business to London because the 'regulation' that Brown put in place had effectively neutered the BofE and allowed the banks to do what the hell they liked. It wasn't 'light touch regulation' it was idiot Brown yet again. BTW, all the way through the 80's banks had pushed for the deregulation that the Brown let them have. Thatcher and Reagan resisted. |
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| Max Headroom |
I'm not just talking about the narrow notion of banking, rather the ramping up of 'consumerism'. The repositioning of ever increasing levels of debt as acceptable in the public's mind. The freeing up of banking in particular came as an inevitable result of years of pressure for reform.
I wholly agree that the merging of retail and investment banking was the catalyst for catastrophy but we took our time getting to that point in the first place. I wholly agree that Brown is a complete buffoon. Between him and Blair they f**ked us all over good and proper. Unless you're a banker of course... |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
+1. The Glass Steagal act abolition was the start, plus I think the current government are more in favour of debt than previous ones, after all they have acted worse than most "consumers" - spending through the good times and now spending through the bad. I felt sick when the govt ran a radio ad encouraging people that they could go to uni, just borrow the money (I'm all in favour of widespread uni access but not widespread student debt) The other issue was that the recession of 01 was basically halted by large reactions to 9/11 when the concern was that this would increase the depth/speed of that recession, to the point it didn't really happen. Also the current govt. compared to old ones have done little to replace the declining traditional industries with other secure ones - call centres and financial services seem to be all that's flourished under labour. |
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| canadian bacon |
While a Govt could be said to favour debt more than previous ones, its also about making personal choices surely ? No one is forced to take on massive debts, be they mortgage or credit card related. I run my finances on a slightly old fashioned basis of spending slightly less than I earn, and living within my means ( like I said, old fashioned), it seems to have got me through severa depressions/recessions.
I don't spend what I don't have, and tend to only use my credit card on large purchases because its simply more convenient than cheques or cash, its usually paid off by the next bill, as the purchase was planned in advance and cash is waiting to be transferred. I also know that not everyone can run their lives this way, but we should all take a long look at how we are, it cannot all be down to a govt, some of it is personal choice as well. Oh, and I am a banker......just not one on those crazy bonus schemes, banks in Canada have tended to be more fiscally conservative, and thankfully have come through the present situation relatively unscathed, maybe the world will take heed. |
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| Big Blue |
Boris (a pro-banking-sector politician) speaks.....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/financ...heir-bonuses-beggars-belief.html# |
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| TimR |
Most of the MPs I know seem to be in a state of nervous collapse. Some of them are on suicide watch. Some of them face the task of sacking their wives and selling the house, or possibly the other way round. Some face penury. Never has Parliament been subjected to such protracted humiliation at the hands of the people.
Although I broadly agree with everything else I find this a bit innaccurate. Surely the MPs are subject to protracted humiliation at the hands of themselves. Chances are that the ones who are feeling bad about it are the ones who actually do a decent job and care about their constituents. On the house price bit some areas of Lahndan have seen 12% rises in a month due to the shortage of houses for sale. To me that just makes it clear that we're nowhere near out of the shit yet. |
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| woof woof |
"Most of the MPs I know seem to be in a state of nervous collapse. Some of them are on suicide watch. Some of them face the task of sacking their wives and selling the house, or possibly the other way round. Some face penury. Never has Parliament been subjected to such protracted humiliation at the hands of the people."
Doubtless the number of ivory towers for sale is rising? Maybe I'm just in a constant bad mood these days or maybe our ruling class really are a bunch of out of touch selfish immoral and elitist fuckwits squirming with indignation because the proles have had the audacity to question them when they've been caught behaving...simply indefensibly disgracefully. I suppose it's all a part of the modern way of thinking...I am not responsible for my own failings, someone else is...I am not a money grabbing grubby little man...all of my expenses were perfectly justifiable and approved...I'm a victim. |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
The personal choices thing is correct but the current government has "encouraged" debt in some areas- making debt a necessity for students and openly "encouraging" loans to be taken out for this. Also when house prices inflation was looking rampant, nothing was done to keep a lid on it - this mortgage debt was probably greater than should have been "allowed" and certainly higher than can be sustained - of course high returns from stamp duty will have had nothing to do with it. I too run on a very old fashioned basis of living within means and neither a borrower nor a lender be - besides a very manageable mortgage (designed to be payable on a single salary) I've never taken out a loan besides interest free furniture where no cash discount would be given (so better off with the deal and keep the money in my bank earning interest). But in the heady days of 3 yrs ago I used to wonder if I should just spend like everyone else seemed to be doing, fortunately old habits die hard. What worries me is that younger generations (under 35) are more hooked on debt. |
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| Big Blue |
I must say I can't agree with the concept that all debt is some kind of personal choice. If that were the case vast tranches of the international economies would just collapse. Who funds the mass import of iPODs; plasma / LCD TVs; German cars; Chinese clothes yadda yadda yadda? Then how would those bank-funded distribution companies shift all that gear without credit cards / loans / HP / re-mortgages?
It's all very well being pious and saying "it's all your own fault; you should have lived like nuns before buying something old with valves in it" but society, the human psyche and thus the economy doesn't work like that. |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
Surely it is personal choice - or did a gang of hooded men break into your house at night and force you at gun point to order lots of stuff from Argos using your credit card? Sure credit is needed to make the world go round but we're all responsible for living within our relative means. I will concur that the free availability of credit from banks and retailers with the most cursoury of checks hasn't helped - but then if their loans go bad it's their fault. |
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| Mike Amos |
The free availability of credit has fueled the problems we now face and it was itself driven by banks and other credit organisations.
For years now the banks especially have been chucking cheap loans in every customers face. How about the credit card 'limit'? Each time you aproach the limit, the bank will (without a request) increase the limit, 'so you can continue to manage your balance better'. Even watchdog when they investigated years ago were told the banks 'do not do that sort of thing', when they were doing it every single bloomin day. Add to this the competition for such things as free interst in transferred balances and you have an invitation to go nuts. Looking at the state of many of our people, shed loads did just that. How many 125% mortgages went out of the door? How many folk were 'urged/guided into anything between 35-50 year mortgages? Anyone who thinks the financial industry was not the instigator of the disaster is deluded. I have personal experience of the kind of tactics used and I am sure I am not the only one by a margin of many many lots. |
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| canadian bacon |
Just because a credit limit is upped or a loan is offered, doesn't mean anyone has to take up that offer, BB trust me I don't have any electronics with tubes in them, nor do I live like a nun thankyou very much.
Credit does make the world go round, I very much fell into the catagory of those who matured financially while Labour were in power ( am only 37), I think its more about how you were brought up, as a family we didn't have much money, these values have stayed with me, the availability of credit was incidental. My credit card limit is now ridiculous, even in these straightened times, but I still don't have a balance to speak of, and I tear up all the cheap loan offers that come, I will approach the bank if and when I need a loan, not before. |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
One thing I will add, is that from experience, the less "clued up" of the world are more likely to take up increased credit limits, etc. I'd argue that Banks have a responsibility in ensuring that the limits are realistic.
When I was at a well known retailer I queried advertising additional warranties on low value electrical goods (where typically the cost was within 1 or 2 £'s of the item price) only to find out take up was one of the highest on these items. oddly my card limits aren't that good - why? - because I don't spend a lot and always pay in full, ergo I'm a bad customer. |
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| woof woof |
"oddly my card limits aren't that good - why? - because I don't spend a lot and always pay in full, ergo I'm a bad customer."
Same for me. I pay my bill in full every time. My ex gf had big credit card debt and couldn't even meet the repayments (until muggins here paid them off) and yet her credit limit continued to rocket ever skywards. That's gotta show gross irresponsibility on both sides. |
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| Big Blue |
Hmmmm....
I'm interested that the human condition is not being debated, for it is this that has been exploited by the "system" (ie banks to make money by lending; governments to take huge taxes off of that profit and then using the excuse of "it's personal choice" to wriggle out of the horrors they have propogated). No matter what you (or I) say about living like a nun; never taking credit; always living within one's means humans are not some homogenous, like thinking species. The phrase "keeping up with teh Joneses" was around a long time before deregulated credit markets and even before the relaxation of HP availability in the 50s that kick started the post war automotive economy. It is in many peoples' nature to be better than their peers; to try to align themselves with new peers higher up the rope and to sneer down at those that are not similarly minded. It is this uncontrollable mindset that has been exploited, even in the Thatcher years when all of a sudden it was de rigeur to own your own home (rather than passing on European style laws on the responsibilities of landlords!). Individuals want that "thing" to prove they have not stagnanted in some bry-nylon, bakelite pre-war black and white film; they want a bigger house in a different neighbourhood to prove they can move out of their socio-economic background and not have their kids dragged up with dog-excrement shoved through their letter box. As for me: I want what is on offer now. I ride a motorcycle over 12000 miles a year; I fly in planes, use electrical appliances that remain untested annually, cross the road, swim in the sea....lots of things that could kill me unexpectedly tomorrow. Unlike my father I refuse to be the richest man in the graveyard (even if my very first mortgage was 80%). I took my first Credit card and a car loan on my 18th birthday whilst still at school and now, 23 years later, I owe more in small credit than 2 "average" people earn in a year, apparently, and I asked for all of it. I never lost one minute of sleep over it. We're not all the same and the system is there to be (ab)used as we, both the borrower and the lender, see fit. |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
I don't decree you using credit but I'm unclear whether if you lost your job and were unemployed for 2 years that your view is:
a) It's all my choice, and if my house and goods are repossesed then it's my tough luck, I took a chance and it backfired. b) It's the banks and governments fault because I wanted more possessions and they let me borrow. The nature of wanting more is understood - but you need to have the ability to pay for it somewhere, somehow, eventually. In terms of being better than their peers, does taking a massive loan and buying a big car make someone "better" than their peers? As someone used a while back to describe someone who got massively in debt upon starting work "they lived according to their expectations and not their means", personally I think we all need to live within our means, that doesn't mean no debt, just serviceable debt over the mid to long term. |
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| woof woof |
I think you're right BB, many people want things now and why should they wait if the debt can be managed? We only live once and all that...
I think that the key is that you are an intelligent and well balanced individual capable of evaluating options, making informed and calculating decisions and servicing your debt but not everyone has your qualities and earning potential. You must be a little concerned that the same opportunity for credit that is open to you is potentially open to people without the ability to fully realise the possible consequences or to responsibly manage the debt? |
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| Martin |
In response to the points on loans and debt, I started off thinking that Colin was just an old miser, but I agree with his last point completely (he may well be an old miser though!!).
I too pay off my credit card every month and my borrowings are limited to a mortgage and a manageable personal loan used to buy the car. Ideally I would get myself into a position to buy the next car outright, but I know I won't be able to keep it for long enough to save up! I like (love) gadgets and technology so we have HD TV, multiple iPods, laptop etc etc and I also enjoy my holidays. However, I don't and won't take out loans to get these things and always live within my means. Some people just seem to live for now and don't seem to worry about paying loans back and the total cost, but that's just madness IMO. |
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| Big Blue |
Now you're questioning the education and cpmprehension of the masses
And yeah, OK, my debt levels are high but so is my remuneration, so maybe my post skews the scenario a bit on a personal level and I remain on target to have nothing but a manageable mortgage at the age of 50, despite getting divorced. The fact remains, however, that we are bombarded with messages and images of a more enjoyable life due to possession-wealth rather than monetary wealth and then credit is made available to bring that seemingly utopian life closer to hand. And in the mind of some, my dear buildabuggy, having a big car and being in debt is far better than having some more cash to spend each month. I knew a banker once that had a new car every six months (I'm talking 355s, 911s, M3s rather than Focus and Mondeos) because the machismo atmosphere in the office led him to believe this was the only way to be accepted. His section manager had to take him to one side and tell him to stop or he'd place him on a programme for the mentally-unstable. Like I said: we're not all like minded when it comes to the acceptance of debt |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
You're right, I am an (not soo) old miser
However I do buy what I want within reason as long as I know I really want it and it will be a worthwhile "investment" - e.g. when the TV packs up we'll buy nice HD LCD/Plasma with the home entertainment and PC hooked up to it - a couple of years ago technology in this area was moving on rapidly so spending big time didn't seem worth it, now everything is slowing down and heading in one direction so this should see us through for the next 5-7 yrs. |
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| DaveGibson |
When I was old enough to consider buying my first car, my father advised me that I wait until I had enough money to replace it, should that be necessary. I didn't buy one until I was 21 and did have to replace it, a year later, after I wrote it off. Even though it was covered by comprehensive insurance, I still needed to find about 40% of the cost of the replacement.
Mortgage apart, the only money I've ever borrowed, to fund a purchase, was the HP on my Rover 75, which I took only because it was 0%. |
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| woof woof |
"Now you're questioning the education and cpmprehension of the masses"
I'm sure that there's more at play than education and comprehension, BB. I suppose mounting and unmanageable debt can come about through a whole load of reasons from simply wanting things that you're present and future income can't pay for through desperation hand to mouth debt and onto pitiful attempts to spend your way out of emotional issues. And just out of interest...the most seriously wealthy people I've known have usually been at some level and in some areas at least, rather tight. |
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| franki68 |
And just out of interest...the most seriously wealthy people I've known have usually been at some level and in some areas at least, rather tight.[/quote]
Interesting comment that,I know someone very well who is proper mega wealthy (sold 20% of one of his businesses for 100m cash and just announced profits for the year of £100m,he is probably worth 2-3billion )....I do not know of a tighter human being,he indulges his wife with a few nice cars,but aside from that he is so tight it beggars belief. |
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| PG |
I am sure that you know what you are doing BB, but I've seen both sides of this. I thought like you in the 1980's. Bigger house, new cars, loan to do up the kitchen and so on. I had a plan (or so I thought). Getting divorced (messily and expensively), losing my job, interest rates going up and a property crash, all within the same year, taught me a rather harsh lesson.
I started again from scratch (well, minus quite a lot actually) at the age of 31. I'm not going there again financially if I can possibly help it. Re the banks or the borrowers being at fault, both sides are guilty - of greed. |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
We're not and I can see how people get there, but reality of a long term cycle and whilst we may all be well paid and sorted at most points in our lives then at some point the wheels will come off in some way (divorce, illness, death, unemployment, etc.). The guy I met on the weekend selling his Monza had a big time shock when he lost his job - no big house, no flash car but enough debt to mean he had to work immediately. I can see how the bankers (car changing man) mind worked but that's perhaps a sign of insecurity? |
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| Big Blue |
Perhaps I should really point out that so have I: my dad has always lived within his means and continues to do so. One of his adages was "enough money to buy anything I'd ever want but I'm not going to as I'd rather have the money". My mum and step-dad have never been out of debt since being married in 1979 (both as divorcees with families); they borrowed when they needed to; used property for equity when they needed to and even now have loans on a property on the Cote d'Azur (although 2 others are unmortgaged!). They still sweat when the tax returns come in (even though they're retired) and have to move money across the world to avoid it being taxed in one country because if it was they'd be fecked. Much as I love my dad; much as I know he's probably right in the way he lives; much as I know I'm his sole beneficiary I know whos lifestyle I admire more. I constantly advise the old man to get out there and see his time out in style. He refuses. |
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| Bob Sacramento |
As someone who's business is being slowly and deliberately squeezed to death by the Royal Bank of Scotland, despite the healthiest order book for over 12 months, news of these bonuses has not gone down well in chez Sacramento.
They have replaced their toxic debt with nice safe Government debt and are now screwing their customers for every penny. If I disappear from here and you hear of a gunman running amok at RBS offices in Leeds, raise a glass in toast, for it shall be I. |
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| DradusContact |
I read a thing in the paper today saying an overhaul of the lending process is coming. Apparently the checks are going to be much more stringent on lending money, and if the debt goes bad it will be the fault of the bank.
Err yeah, cant see any problems what-so-ever with that. 
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
Wasn't that how it was supposed to be anyway? |
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| TimR |
I've done this with my parents but they seem happy pottering about in the garden or going on self-drive short breaks around Scotland. My suggestion of a big, expensive cruise was treated with total amusement. I've told them I don't want to inherit loads of money, just leave the house (unmortgaged) please
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| woof woof |
Our parents are a different generation and I'd imagine that to them the idea that they have no financial worries and can within reason have and do whatever they want is very difficult to accept. | ||||||
| TimR |
I've got a friend whose £5 million business loan has been called in by RBS despite him meeting all financial covenants and other terms. The RBS have said he doesn't meet covenant but have refused to show him their calculations. The covenant calculation he uses was supplied to him by RBS to enable him to keep check on it as he went along. From what he's said this is not untypical of what is happening at the moment, especially with RBS and Lloyds. |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
Rather the opposite - the idea that they have no "financial" worries probably fits most - they have simply geared lifestyle to income, so no worries. Being extravagant with their money, now that will be an alien concept. |
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| DradusContact |
I'm of the opinion that if you borrow too much money, and cant pay it back, thats 'your fault'. The exact reason why you cant pay it back could be anything. If the bank looks at your income and are happy with it, lend you the cash, then you start going nuts, its not really the banks fault. |
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| woof woof |
"Being extravagant with their money, now that will be an alien concept."
Yup. Spending on FG is just not what folk like them do. |
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| woof woof |
DC - "I'm of the opinion that if you borrow too much money, and cant pay it back, thats 'your fault'."
I suppose that it is their own fault, in the end, if we are being stark about things, but there is much temptation in life and some succumb. I don't know if I can blame people that do, I think that society does have a duty to put in place safety nets and blocks that protect people from themselves and from the temptations that others put in their way. |
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| DradusContact |
I don't mean 'fault' as in they have done something wrong as such. Though of course sometimes (more often than not really) with some people its a simple case of people borrowing too much. The fault might be anything like redudancy or ill health. Through no fault of the person they cant pay the money back. You cant blame the bank though. | ||||||
| woof woof |
I think that some financial institutions did / do lend recklessly and in those cases I think that they are probably at least as much at fault as individuals who recklessly rather than uncomprehendingly take on debt. I think that the banks and credit card companies are at least enablers.
What a depressing subject this is, ruining lives as it does. |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
See what you mean now. It's definitely the individuals fault, but the banks problem |
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| DradusContact |
Very true. | ||||||
| Bob Sacramento |
Tell me about it. We've had a confidential invoice discounting facility with the bastards for the last 3 years which, in their own admission, has been run perfectly, always audited A1 and is a model account. Now they are reducing the facility, sticking in retentions and generally breaking the agreement that they signed. Basically, they are being a complete set of c*nts. The good news is they are all in line for nice Xmas bonuses then. |
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| Mike Amos |
Big bonus time again, wow - nice if you can get it but, where are the big fines for screwing up in the first instance? Not heard one word about that have we? | ||||||
| DaveGibson |
Back in 1990 when the economy turned sour we had a contractor working for us who appeared to have about 30 credit cards all of which were maxed out. As a result of the downturn, he was duly called in by the manager and told his contract was being ended. He then pulled out this concertina wallet of cards and spent the whole afternoon calling his various credit providers to tell them that he was no longer able to pay them. We reckoned he'd been taking advances from some of his cards to pay down others and got into a complete mess.
Just looking on Autosport I spotted an advert offering poor risks a credit card. For a credit limit of £250 the typical APR is only 39.9%. |
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| Martin |
My parents are muttering about their investments and crap interest rates on their savings, but it doesn't seem to be holding them back too much. They have always loved going on holiday and now they are retired, take as many as they can. They instilled a very good sense of what money is worth and the 'perils of debt' when I was growing up and being good Yorkshire folk, are careful with their money. They always moan at me when they found out I've bought something, but they don't seem to bat an eyelid when they always fly business class / Upper Class! It's very strange because they have started going into Lidl to pick up a few things because they are cheaper and will go to Tesco for a coffee rather than Costa, again because it saves a pound or two. My dad is also going to look at the new E Class because his is 4 years old in March. That must be what happens when you get old(er)! |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
A new E class because itt's 4 yrs old - I thought Mercedes were supposed to last for life
Lidl/Aldi are actually pretty good, we used to deal with both and their quality standards for products were way ahead of UK supermarkets - you might not recognise the brands but for "value range" money you're getting "finest" products. They are a bit lacking in choice. Re Tesco coffee - it's not Starbucks but if all you want is a drink and "non of that new fangled double skinny latte nonesense" then it's perfectly good and about 70p! Plus breakfast for about £2 as well
Perhaps I'm getting old.... |
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| TimR |
I thought Tesco coffee was pretty vile and I'd much rather for out the extra for a decent one - although it probably helps that I only do that once every couple of months. In addition I've also been to Tesco for lunch and their baked potatoes are a joke - they;re tiny and not so cheap. Sainsburys was much better, for a baked potato at least. |
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| DradusContact |
I love a good starbucks white cafe mocha, but again since i only buy one every time i go into Liverpool or Manchester, were talking about 4 per year so i dont mind paying. | ||||||
| Big Blue |
All coffee outside of Italy is pretty vile, IMHO.
Re: Lidl. Good German meat products. In my mum's village in France the Lidl that was built some 5 or so years ago was hardly used..... until (oooh, back on topic) last autumn when all of a sudden you couldn't get a space in the car park! |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
Lidl have a very reasonable red wine advertised on TV at only £3 per bottle - shows the difference in taxes, it was only £2 in France even at today;s exchange rate - First time I've ever bought a whole case of wine back with me. | ||||||
| DradusContact |
Aldi have some lovely biscuits and chocolate. | ||||||
| gonnabuildabuggy |
Yes, not good for my waistline. |
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| TimR |
I've just eaten some salt & vinegar Pringles
Just because they're there.
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| Martin |
Yes, but it's the old model now........wonder where I get it from?
I don't think my mum will let him get away with it, she only let him get a brand new one with decent spec last time because it was going to be a 'keeper'! Mrs M has a Starbucks / Costa several times a week..... |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
Get her to swap to Tesco and that next new car is paid for outright....simples 
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| PG |
+1 to that. The cappuccino's in Starbucks et al are all horribly strong and yet bitter. The latte's are just way too frothy and unpleasant. And they are all a complete rip off. What people really want is a hot Italian breakfast coffee - nice real coffee, served with plenty of hot milk, not frothy shtye. It's what our microwave gets most of it's use for - heating (never boiling) milk for a real proper coffee. |
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| PG |
Is Mervyn King a lurker here?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/financ...gest-moral-hazard-in-history.html I doubt that Crazy Dave is going to adopt this as a policy in the run up to an election, but I wonder if he might be persuaded afterwards? EDITED - oops, thanks, link now fixed |
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| gonnabuildabuggy |
fixed the link |