| Archive for The Motor Forum talking cars since 2006 |
| Eff One |
Autocar's 2009 Best Driver's CarI haven't got the magazine but they've revealed the result on the website. If you don't want to know, look away now...It's the Evora. Few details on the website but there's a lengthening list of comments slamming Autocar for bias - mainly GT3 fanboys as far as I can tell. The winner isn't a complete surprise, but the second placed car is - it's not the new GT3. |
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| franki68 |
Re: Autocar's 2009 Best Driver's Car
Quite interesting reading...which I have yet to do.BUt I did glance at the results and was suprised. I always thinkk with this feature that it should be 'best handling car' as surely that is not the same as best drivers car ? The winner has at best a mediocre engine and to me the heart and soul of any car is its engine. And just simply the feelgood factor...no way will the winner make you feel better than the car in 2nd place for example,or a gt3 .Having said that it was quite staggering how convincing a margin it won by. It will be very interesting if they put a really top engine in the winner though,that really woul be something. RE the r8 v10....does 150kg make such a big difference in the feeling of agility ? Anyway...v12 aston vantage,I really really want one.No make that really really really want one. |
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| Skyhook |
Re: Autocar's 2009 Best Driver's Car
I'd agree with that! Though I was slightly disapointed by the perfomance figures, given the power. I was also amazed by EVO's comments in a recent buying guide that the Vantage is one of the most well built and reliable cars out there, not just the most reliable and well built Aston. Well, I say amazed, I've no first hand experience... but going on reputation... The comments under the Autocar website piece make me so glad I'm not on that forum anymore. |
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| DaveGibson |
Re: Autocar's 2009 Best Driver's Car
That's what Steve Sutcliffe says in his column, where he comments that it used to be called 'Best handling car' and not 'Best Driver's car'. He goes on to say that 'best handling' means different things to different drivers because there are so many different things that have to come together to make a satisfying drive. |
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| Eff One |
Re: Autocar's 2009 Best Driver's Car
What is it, about 10% extra weight overall? Quite a big difference, I'd think. The Evora's engine... to me, the idea of a Toyota lump breathed on by Lotus is quite appealing - rock-solid reliability with a touch of the exotic. I've heard it described as reminiscent of an NSX V6 which would be great if true, but you certainly wouldn't buy one - or any Lotus - for the engine. |
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| franki68 |
Re: Autocar's 2009 Best Driver's Car
Its probably quite a good engine,and being toyota ultra reliable,but compared to the audi v10,aston v12 and gt3 engine ?? |
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| ALF |
I've been up near Norwich a few times recently and saw a silver Evora on the main road near the Lotus factory. I have to say I was very disappointed with the looks - it looked just as dull as it looked in the magazine pictures. It certainly doesn't look worth the price, if you know what I mean, which would put me off a bit... Looks are, after all, pretty important for this sort of car... | ||||||
| Parm |
The Evoras styling does nothing for me either. A friend who has an Elise test drove one recently and absolutely loved it, touting it as much fun to drive as the Elise, but with none of the compromises.
I bet it would be a hoot round a track, but I wouldn't buy one over a Cayman S. for every day use. |
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| Eff One |
Re: Autocar's 2009 Best Driver's Car
Not in the same league as any of them for sense of occasion, of course - but not in the same price bracket either. In photographs I really like the Evora, especially from the rear - but I've yet to see one in the metal. To my eye pretty much all cars are dulled by silver these days - the best looking pics I've seen were of an Ardent Red car. |
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| Guitar Zero |
I don't understand why Autocar have been accused of bias or favouritism - what on earth would they gain by pretending the Lotus and Aston are better than a GT3 ?. It's certainly not money, because if road test rankings could be bought, then a borderline tinpot craphouse like Lotus couldn't afford to lick the shit of Sutcliffe's shoes.
It can't see how it could increase magazine sales either - why would your decision to buy the mag be based on whether an Evora is deemed better or worse than a Pork GT3 ? I think they should rename the article " Sutcliffe says " - with the strap line, " if you don't like my opinion, you can suck my balls until you spew " |
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| BeN |
I remember a couple of years ago (when I still bought the mag), there was similar hoo-ha when Autocar placed the Cayman ahead of the Elise.
There is no pleasing some people. |
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| Turbonutter |
Re: Autocar's 2009 Best Driver's Car
Apparently the gearbox and poor brakes didn't help its cause either Some lovely pics as well, particularly the Evora and 370Z. Amused me that the Lotus was the drifter's choice out the two! I'd also like to try the Vantage as it's the car I've most experience of ( almost ) having tried the old V12 Vantage and the new 4.3 V8 Vantage . Just to see what it was like compared to the old one Also interested to read about the new M3 Coupe Edition - c/f roof, black 19"ers, 10mm suspension drop. Comes in white, yellow or blue. Is this going to be CSL-lite ? |
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| Skyhook |
Re: Autocar's 2009 Best Driver's Car
But how photoshopped? Was the test sponsored by Fisher Price? The colours, the colours... What the chuffin' hell is going on with the bonnet on the Jaguar XFR on page 39? A section of bonnet has been 'chopped over one headlight and part of the grill. Schoolboy error... |
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| Martin |
I've not read it yet, but I don't have a problem over the Lotus winning.
I was more surprised to see the position of cars they love such as the XFR and Focus RS. It's all just opinion anyway! |
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| Matt |
Re: Autocar's 2009 Best Driver's Car
I think they've been HDR'd (High Dynamic Range, which looks crap on anything but landscapes IMO and even then when used lightly). |
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| Turbonutter |
Re: Autocar's 2009 Best Driver's Car
I must admit, I still quite like them - not as obvious as the ones in EVO to my untrained eye |
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| boc70 |
Re: Autocar's 2009 Best Driver's Car
Apart from the aforementioned XFR bonnet balls-up at the front of the article. |
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| Pkh72 |
Re: Autocar's 2009 Best Driver's Car
I'm glad that was noticed by somebody else. As a side issue when i went to the states i had a Rav4 with a V6, i'm not 100% sure it's the basis for the Evora engine or not but it had some poke and sounded nice, i guess the Lotus is somewhat lighter than a Rav4 so it should go pretty well. |
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| PG |
It would also appear that Lotus have managed to create some kind of anti / super matter in building the Evora. A car that produces 276bhp and tips the scales at 1370kg is producing only 80bhp/tonne, according to the final rankings.
Perhaps Autocar could so with a couple more sub-editors and less editors in chief / residecne / wandering / senior / at-large / online? |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Don't you just love it when that happens? 
But I agree, they'll be calling themselves Aotucar at this rate. |
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| PG |
Oops......Petard, hoisting, own. 
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| DaveGibson |
Interestingly, the same picture of all the cars on page 5 does not have the Jaguar error.
Let's just hope they're never taken over by the Grauniad. |
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| Twelfth Monkey |
I thought that the text led logically to the conclusion, which isn't always the case, and that Sutcliffe's intro set out how they best attempt to pigeonhole tidily what are complex and subjective issues. Good on Lotus, furthermore. | ||||||
| Apex clipper |
Shouldn't that be 180? 
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| DaveGibson |
No, 276/1.37 is 201.46 bhp/tonne. | ||||||
| Apex clipper |
So...Is it towing something then..a caravan perhaps.
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| DaveGibson |
When I looked at the scores given for each car, I wondered which driver's assessments most closely matched the average.
On a quick look, I suspected it was Vicky Parrott but, in fact, Mike Duff's scores were nearest. He had one car three places out and three cars just one place out, giving a total difference of six. Vicky Parrott, though, was the only driver to have no car more than two places away from the average. Richard Bremner was furthest out, scoring 22. |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Or is that with Gutcliffe on board? |
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| Apex clipper |
It seems to have got a few peoples hackles up.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/forums/t/8067.aspx?PageIndex=2 |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Whenever I read threads like this on the Autocar forum, my bullshit detector is always triggered by posts that start with "having been lucky enough to drive all of these cars ...". Don't reckon half of them are old enough to have a licence, to be honest. | ||||||
| Turbonutter |
It always surprises me how many people on forums have friends who just lend them the keys to their expensive sporty car and allow them to drive it at ten-tenths down a B-road to form an opinion  ........whilst they themselves only own a Vectra 1.8.....
The only really expensive cars I've driven I've had to pay for ( driver's experience days or hiring for a weekend )... 
Anyway, here's the video http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWa...rs/Videos.aspx?AR=242434&CT=V |
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| TimR |
I've let a couple of friends have a go of the Fiat, Alfa and BMW but I don't remember any of it being away from a dual carriageway despite them being trusted friends (and I was in the car every time too). Didn't get any takers for a go in the Shogun though. Weird that 
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| Twelfth Monkey |
Exactament! |
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| franki68 |
Indeed,though it could be worse and be an american car forum ,which are definitely populated by 13 year old spotty teenagers or the most anally retentive car bores. 'hey that veyron is slow man,my 997 turbo with superdoppertriplexxxx superchargers producing 6500 bhp is so fast they haven't invented a stopwatch with small enough increments to measure it's 1/4 mile times.' |
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| Frank Bullitt |
I love the way Autocar attempt to provide a conclusive answer to an incredibly subjective question, one that means so many different things to different people; they'd be better-off testing the lot, giving a precis and inviting the reader to use this as a starter for ten if selecting the best drivers car. | ||||||
| simonp |
Did the Clio come above the Focus? | ||||||
| Apex clipper |
Yep. I'm totally in agreement on that above post. |
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| cbeaks1 |
Yep - effectively 1 place, joint 5th v joint 7th. |
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| Martin |
+2 Way too subjective in the current format. |
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| Rodge |
I just read it this morning and I'm not surprised at the R8 not finishing higher, especially after the V8 won it 2 years ago. I mentioned that at Goodwood, I spoke to an Audi chap who told me that out of all the 65 R8 V10 customers Audi had, none of them had upgraded from the V8, because the handling balance was not as good in the heavier car.
Does handling mean the car that is the most enjoyable to drive as opposed to it being the best weapon around their track? I'm sure the track comes into it too, it limited the faster cars in that they had to be reined in due to noise restrictions and also, alot of faster cars only come into their own further up the rev range, handicapping them on a shorter track. |
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| GonnaBreakABuggy |
And yet, these are marketed as track cars for the road, if you can't use them to full extent on the track, they're bloody pointless! |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Interesting, though depressing, to note the GT3 was stymied by noise regs. I've often wondered if mine is too loud for some tracks. Particularly aware of this having just spent a couple of hours at speed on the Autobahn ... I'm half deaf as a result! | ||||||
| TimR |
Eh?
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Young man ... you're going to have to speak up ... you young people all mumble these days ... | ||||||
| Matt |
Wouldn't that be a particular problem around your old neck of the woods? 
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| TimR |
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| Martin |
Sight as well as hearing problems then......... | ||||||
| Matt |
Saucer of milk for table 9, please.
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| franki68 |
I find that hard to believe ? Firstly how many r8 v8 owners would have tried the v10 ? Not that many I imagine,and secondly would they be able in a short road test to determine that the car was not as agile ? I think that would be pretty tough. I can't speak for anyone else but the main reason I won't really upgrade is it will cost me £45000 to change to a car that looks identical,is faster but in such a way that is not really useable (the v8 is as fast as you need a car to be in the uk).If the deterioratrion in agility is noticeable on the road ,then that would be a good reason,since one of the main joys is the cars agility. |
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| BeN |
I'm not sure how many of you people watch the Autocar videos, which are also now on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/user/autocar I will say one thing: There is a reason why they are magazine journos. Sutcliffe's drone is such a bore. Some people really aren't meant to be on camera. Some excerpts: "You gonna think, I gonna stop, and the thing just stops." "It is also, quick" 
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| Eff One |
Just watched the video of the Evora at Goodwood, with Sutcliffe driving. What struck me was the noise. Not conclusive due to the limitations of the recording, but it to me it sounds pretty tasty from inside the cabin. | ||||||
| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
And watching that Panamera video, I was ready to thump him if he said "Porsh" once more ... 
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| Eff One |
Why? That's how the spelling is pronounced in English. I'm sure BMW isn't pronounced bee-em-double-you in Germany either. Personally I'd feel a bit of a cock pronouncing Porsche 'Porsha' in the UK. |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
I don't agree - it's originally someone's name, after all. And saying "Porsh" to me is just the worst kind of faux-blokeishness; the sadly too typical habit of pretending to be dumber than one really is, to appear more "down to earth", whatever that means. It's like people who say "them" instead of "those" even though they know it's incorrect.
Sorry - not having a go at you, it's just one of my pet hates ...
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| Eff One |
It's just what falls naturally to the tongue. Nobody in the UK pronounces Peugeot or Renault properly either - and would get some strange looks if they did.
I almost never hear Porsche pronounced in the original, German way - and when a Porsche salesman did, it sounded oddly pretentious to my ears. I have no rational explanation for that. As to the grammar - saying 'them' instead of 'those' when you know better? Are there people that actually do that?! |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Maybe I'm being charitable assuming they do know better ... though there is a football columnist on the BBC website who does it all the time. Spot on about Peugeot, or Pugh-jot as I believe it's sometimes called. |
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| Turbonutter |
... | ||||||
| Turbonutter |
Edited as double keypress 
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| Turbonutter |
Isn't BMW pronounced Bay-emm-Vay in Germany? My wife has a friend whose name is pronounced 'Porsha'. She is quite tasty as well so it makes you feel a bit expensive when you say her name
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Presumably spelt Portia like the character in Merchant of Venice? | ||||||
| Turbonutter |
I guess so |
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| "him" |
We should start a thread on this, and perhaps phonetically spell how we pronounce the marques.
Ford Ka for example, I say as KAH, whereas Ford salesmen locally refer to it as the "Kay ay". Renault = Reno (I never pronounce the 't') Citroen = Sitch ren But I am an 'oik'
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Which is correct, so you're not an oik. I also say "Kah" for Ford's little 'un. While we're on the subject, can't believe how many people pronounce German tuner Hartge as "Hartage", as in "Arnage", whereas it should be Hart-ger. |
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| DaveGibson |
I guess it depends on whether you did German at school. People who say 'Porsh' annoy me intensely. As far as I'm concerned, it's ignorant and lacks respect because, as Nick says, it's someone's name.
Losing the accent over the 'e' doesn't help but it's Sit-ro-en. |
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| Eff One |
Nice road test of the Evora on the Evo site:
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/241450/lotus_evora.html |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
The Evora that makes my heart beat a bit faster is the Type 124 racer:
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| TimR |
The Evora wins CAR mag's Car of The Year contest as well. | ||||||
| Eff One |
Tasty... incidentally, Drive the Deal are offering them at £2k off... so my car (2 seater, Sports spec, Ardent Red) comes in at £47,289.
http://www.drivethedeal.com/buy-a-new-car/lotus/evora+coupe |